Everyone (:-)) knows the vinegar/table salt trick to make dilute
buffered HCl for derusting, but I read about a new recipe - two parts 5%
vinegar and 1 part 3% hydrogen peroxide. This will make a very dilute
(about 1%) solution of peracetic acid, which will have a sharp odor so
don't stick your nose in it! Besides being used to kill algae in ponds
(diluted to about 10-50 ppm in the pond) it turns out it does a great
job of making brass look new again after machining or heating. Make
enough mix to submerge the brass, and wait overnight - voila! Also
strips copper sheet clean after I blackened it with a torch, but didn't
do a thing for oxidized 304SS. Don't know about rust on iron but I bet
the salt would be better for that since the peracetic acid will be
consumed pretty fast. It is a little slow since it is so dilute, but
works great. I'm not really sure if the slow step is the formation of
the peracetic acid or the cleaning of the metal. Maybe one day I'll do
some experiments where I mix one batch and let it sit for an hour before
adding metal while in a duplicate batch I dump everything together at
the start, and even try adding some salt, or maybe not :-). Can't
remember where on the Internet I saw this, so can't give the proper
attribution, sorry.

Don't drink it, or soak your hands in it, and especially DO NOT get it
in your eyes. It wants to glue your eyelids to the eyeballs and no one
wants that. That's the high points off an MSDS for some 15-20% stuff.
I really don't know how nasty this dilute stuff is so be adult about it.

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames carl dott ijames aat verizon dott net
(remove nospm or make the obvious changes before replying)

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:08:12 GMT, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

Everyone (:-)) knows the vinegar/table salt trick to make dilute
buffered HCl for derusting, but I read about a new recipe - two parts 5%
vinegar and 1 part 3% hydrogen peroxide. This will make a very dilute
(about 1%) solution of peracetic acid, which will have a sharp odor so
don't stick your nose in it! Besides being used to kill algae in ponds
(diluted to about 10-50 ppm in the pond) it turns out it does a great
job of making brass look new again after machining or heating. Make
enough mix to submerge the brass, and wait overnight - voila! Also
strips copper sheet clean after I blackened it with a torch, but didn't
do a thing for oxidized 304SS. Don't know about rust on iron but I bet
the salt would be better for that since the peracetic acid will be
consumed pretty fast. It is a little slow since it is so dilute, but
works great. I'm not really sure if the slow step is the formation of
the peracetic acid or the cleaning of the metal. Maybe one day I'll do
some experiments where I mix one batch and let it sit for an hour before
adding metal while in a duplicate batch I dump everything together at
the start, and even try adding some salt, or maybe not :-). Can't
remember where on the Internet I saw this, so can't give the proper
attribution, sorry.

Interesting, duly noted, worth a try. I don't know jack squat about
chemistry, but I've found that Wal-Mart peroxide mixed with lumberyard
muriatic acid makes a very effective and fast etchant for copper-clad
ciruitboards at way far lower cost than ferric chloride from Radio
Shack. Warm FeCl works better for fine work as in traces under .010",
but the cheap mix works nicely for less fussy projects.

Don Foreman wrote:
Interesting, duly noted, worth a try. I don't know jack squat about
chemistry, but I've found that Wal-Mart peroxide mixed with lumberyard
muriatic acid makes a very effective and fast etchant for copper-clad
ciruitboards at way far lower cost than ferric chloride from Radio
Shack. Warm FeCl works better for fine work as in traces under .010",
but the cheap mix works nicely for less fussy projects.
--Got some weights/volumes to add to this hack?
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : A steaming pile of
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : obscure information...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

steamer wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:

Interesting, duly noted, worth a try. I don't know jack squat about
chemistry, but I've found that Wal-Mart peroxide mixed with lumberyard
muriatic acid makes a very effective and fast etchant for copper-clad
ciruitboards at way far lower cost than ferric chloride from Radio
Shack. Warm FeCl works better for fine work as in traces under .010",
but the cheap mix works nicely for less fussy projects.

--Got some weights/volumes to add to this hack?

It's very easy to make ferric chloride - simply take hydrochloric acid
and keep feeding it steel until it won't dissolve any more iron. At this
point it's been "killed" and it will be nearly all ferric chloride.

Grant

On 01 Aug 2007 15:23:46 GMT, steamer wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
Interesting, duly noted, worth a try. I don't know jack squat about
chemistry, but I've found that Wal-Mart peroxide mixed with lumberyard
muriatic acid makes a very effective and fast etchant for copper-clad
ciruitboards at way far lower cost than ferric chloride from Radio
Shack. Warm FeCl works better for fine work as in traces under .010",
but the cheap mix works nicely for less fussy projects.

--Got some weights/volumes to add to this hack?

Two parts peroxide to one part muriatic by volume. It's not fussy.

On Jul 31, 9:08 pm, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:
Everyone (:-)) knows the vinegar/table salt trick to make dilute
buffered HCl for derusting, but I read about a new recipe - two parts 5%
vinegar and 1 part 3% hydrogen peroxide. This will make a very dilute
(about 1%) solution of peracetic acid, which will have a sharp odor so
don't stick your nose in it! Besides being used to kill algae in ponds
(diluted to about 10-50 ppm in the pond) it turns out it does a great
job of making brass look new again after machining or heating. Make
enough mix to submerge the brass, and wait overnight - voila! Also
strips copper sheet clean after I blackened it with a torch, but didn't
do a thing for oxidized 304SS. Don't know about rust on iron but I bet
the salt would be better for that since the peracetic acid will be
consumed pretty fast. It is a little slow since it is so dilute, but
works great. I'm not really sure if the slow step is the formation of
the peracetic acid or the cleaning of the metal. Maybe one day I'll do
some experiments where I mix one batch and let it sit for an hour before
adding metal while in a duplicate batch I dump everything together at
the start, and even try adding some salt, or maybe not :-). Can't
remember where on the Internet I saw this, so can't give the proper
attribution, sorry.

Don't drink it, or soak your hands in it, and especially DO NOT get it
in your eyes. It wants to glue your eyelids to the eyeballs and no one
wants that. That's the high points off an MSDS for some 15-20% stuff.
I really don't know how nasty this dilute stuff is so be adult about it.

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames carl dott ijames aat verizon dott net
(remove nospm or make the obvious changes before replying)

Carl:

Even better brightener for removing the red stains on brass is a 50-50
mix of drugstore peroxide and saturated sodium bisulfate solution (aka
"dry pool acid" mixed into warm water). Heated to about 185 F it will
strip the red stuff in 10-20 minutes. It has a short half-life, so is
best mixed when you need it. (the mixed solution, that is -- the
bisulfate pickle will last a long time, once you add the peroxide, the
mixed solution begins to degrade.)

The bisulfate pickle is relatively benign as acids go.

Regards,

Bob

According to Don Foreman :
On 01 Aug 2007 15:23:46 GMT, steamer wrote:

[ ... ]

--Got some weights/volumes to add to this hack?

Two parts peroxide to one part muriatic by volume. It's not fussy.

*Which* peroxide? Hydrogen peroxide? That's the most common
one, but it could be some other.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Two parts peroxide to one part muriatic by volume. It's not fussy.

*Which* peroxide? Hydrogen peroxide? That's the most common
one, but it could be some other.

Yes, hydrogen peroxide. Here is a link to a great site on how to make
pc boards by toner transfer, and he recommends the hcl peroxide etch:
http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm

Another etchant is copper (II) chloride. It's biggest advantage is you
never have to throw it away. You can regenerate it by bubbling oxygen
or air through it, or if you are in a hurry you can add hydrogen
peroxide. Here is an excerpt from
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~esey...uCl/index.html
which is a very detailed website all about this method:


--
Regards,
Carl Ijames carl dott ijames aat verizon dott net
(remove nospm or make the obvious changes before replying)

According to Carl Ijames :
Two parts peroxide to one part muriatic by volume. It's not fussy.

*Which* peroxide? Hydrogen peroxide? That's the most common
one, but it could be some other.

Yes, hydrogen peroxide. Here is a link to a great site on how to make
pc boards by toner transfer, and he recommends the hcl peroxide etch:
http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm

Thanks for this -- and all that I snipped below.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2 Aug 2007 03:53:44 GMT, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:

According to Don Foreman :
On 01 Aug 2007 15:23:46 GMT, steamer wrote:

[ ... ]

--Got some weights/volumes to add to this hack?

Two parts peroxide to one part muriatic by volume. It's not fussy.

*Which* peroxide? Hydrogen peroxide? That's the most common
one, but it could be some other.

Enjoy,
DoN.

3% hydrogen peroxide, available very inexpensively at Wal Mart

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:37:45 -0700, Bob
wrote:

On Jul 31, 9:08 pm, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:


Even better brightener for removing the red stains on brass is a 50-50
mix of drugstore peroxide and saturated sodium bisulfate solution (aka
"dry pool acid" mixed into warm water). Heated to about 185 F it will
strip the red stuff in 10-20 minutes. It has a short half-life, so is
best mixed when you need it. (the mixed solution, that is -- the
bisulfate pickle will last a long time, once you add the peroxide, the
mixed solution begins to degrade.)

The bisulfate pickle is relatively benign as acids go.

Regards,

Bob

Thank you! I have wondered for years what might brighten up brass
after silverbrazing boils off the surface zinc leaving it red.

I gotta try that!

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 04:19:39 GMT, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

Another etchant is copper (II) chloride. It's biggest advantage is you
never have to throw it away. You can regenerate it by bubbling oxygen
or air through it, or if you are in a hurry you can add hydrogen
peroxide. Here is an excerpt from
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~esey...uCl/index.html
which is a very detailed website all about this method:


Interesting. I didn't know there was another web page about this. Here
is mine for comparison:
http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html

Not based on my own work, but from a book long out of print.