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Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
Everyone (:-)) knows the vinegar/table salt trick to make dilute
buffered HCl for derusting, but I read about a new recipe - two parts 5% vinegar and 1 part 3% hydrogen peroxide. This will make a very dilute (about 1%) solution of peracetic acid, which will have a sharp odor so don't stick your nose in it! Besides being used to kill algae in ponds (diluted to about 10-50 ppm in the pond) it turns out it does a great job of making brass look new again after machining or heating. Make enough mix to submerge the brass, and wait overnight - voila! Also strips copper sheet clean after I blackened it with a torch, but didn't do a thing for oxidized 304SS. Don't know about rust on iron but I bet the salt would be better for that since the peracetic acid will be consumed pretty fast. It is a little slow since it is so dilute, but works great. I'm not really sure if the slow step is the formation of the peracetic acid or the cleaning of the metal. Maybe one day I'll do some experiments where I mix one batch and let it sit for an hour before adding metal while in a duplicate batch I dump everything together at the start, and even try adding some salt, or maybe not :-). Can't remember where on the Internet I saw this, so can't give the proper attribution, sorry. Don't drink it, or soak your hands in it, and especially DO NOT get it in your eyes. It wants to glue your eyelids to the eyeballs and no one wants that. That's the high points off an MSDS for some 15-20% stuff. I really don't know how nasty this dilute stuff is so be adult about it. -- Regards, Carl Ijames carl dott ijames aat verizon dott net (remove nospm or make the obvious changes before replying) |
Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:08:12 GMT, "Carl Ijames"
wrote: Everyone (:-)) knows the vinegar/table salt trick to make dilute buffered HCl for derusting, but I read about a new recipe - two parts 5% vinegar and 1 part 3% hydrogen peroxide. This will make a very dilute (about 1%) solution of peracetic acid, which will have a sharp odor so don't stick your nose in it! Besides being used to kill algae in ponds (diluted to about 10-50 ppm in the pond) it turns out it does a great job of making brass look new again after machining or heating. Make enough mix to submerge the brass, and wait overnight - voila! Also strips copper sheet clean after I blackened it with a torch, but didn't do a thing for oxidized 304SS. Don't know about rust on iron but I bet the salt would be better for that since the peracetic acid will be consumed pretty fast. It is a little slow since it is so dilute, but works great. I'm not really sure if the slow step is the formation of the peracetic acid or the cleaning of the metal. Maybe one day I'll do some experiments where I mix one batch and let it sit for an hour before adding metal while in a duplicate batch I dump everything together at the start, and even try adding some salt, or maybe not :-). Can't remember where on the Internet I saw this, so can't give the proper attribution, sorry. Interesting, duly noted, worth a try. I don't know jack squat about chemistry, but I've found that Wal-Mart peroxide mixed with lumberyard muriatic acid makes a very effective and fast etchant for copper-clad ciruitboards at way far lower cost than ferric chloride from Radio Shack. Warm FeCl works better for fine work as in traces under .010", but the cheap mix works nicely for less fussy projects. |
Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
Don Foreman wrote:
Interesting, duly noted, worth a try. I don't know jack squat about chemistry, but I've found that Wal-Mart peroxide mixed with lumberyard muriatic acid makes a very effective and fast etchant for copper-clad ciruitboards at way far lower cost than ferric chloride from Radio Shack. Warm FeCl works better for fine work as in traces under .010", but the cheap mix works nicely for less fussy projects. --Got some weights/volumes to add to this hack? -- "Steamboat Ed" Haas : A steaming pile of Hacking the Trailing Edge! : obscure information... www.nmpproducts.com ---Decks a-wash in a sea of words--- |
Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
steamer wrote:
Don Foreman wrote: Interesting, duly noted, worth a try. I don't know jack squat about chemistry, but I've found that Wal-Mart peroxide mixed with lumberyard muriatic acid makes a very effective and fast etchant for copper-clad ciruitboards at way far lower cost than ferric chloride from Radio Shack. Warm FeCl works better for fine work as in traces under .010", but the cheap mix works nicely for less fussy projects. --Got some weights/volumes to add to this hack? It's very easy to make ferric chloride - simply take hydrochloric acid and keep feeding it steel until it won't dissolve any more iron. At this point it's been "killed" and it will be nearly all ferric chloride. Grant |
Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
On 01 Aug 2007 15:23:46 GMT, steamer wrote:
Don Foreman wrote: Interesting, duly noted, worth a try. I don't know jack squat about chemistry, but I've found that Wal-Mart peroxide mixed with lumberyard muriatic acid makes a very effective and fast etchant for copper-clad ciruitboards at way far lower cost than ferric chloride from Radio Shack. Warm FeCl works better for fine work as in traces under .010", but the cheap mix works nicely for less fussy projects. --Got some weights/volumes to add to this hack? Two parts peroxide to one part muriatic by volume. It's not fussy. |
Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
On Jul 31, 9:08 pm, "Carl Ijames"
wrote: Everyone (:-)) knows the vinegar/table salt trick to make dilute buffered HCl for derusting, but I read about a new recipe - two parts 5% vinegar and 1 part 3% hydrogen peroxide. This will make a very dilute (about 1%) solution of peracetic acid, which will have a sharp odor so don't stick your nose in it! Besides being used to kill algae in ponds (diluted to about 10-50 ppm in the pond) it turns out it does a great job of making brass look new again after machining or heating. Make enough mix to submerge the brass, and wait overnight - voila! Also strips copper sheet clean after I blackened it with a torch, but didn't do a thing for oxidized 304SS. Don't know about rust on iron but I bet the salt would be better for that since the peracetic acid will be consumed pretty fast. It is a little slow since it is so dilute, but works great. I'm not really sure if the slow step is the formation of the peracetic acid or the cleaning of the metal. Maybe one day I'll do some experiments where I mix one batch and let it sit for an hour before adding metal while in a duplicate batch I dump everything together at the start, and even try adding some salt, or maybe not :-). Can't remember where on the Internet I saw this, so can't give the proper attribution, sorry. Don't drink it, or soak your hands in it, and especially DO NOT get it in your eyes. It wants to glue your eyelids to the eyeballs and no one wants that. That's the high points off an MSDS for some 15-20% stuff. I really don't know how nasty this dilute stuff is so be adult about it. -- Regards, Carl Ijames carl dott ijames aat verizon dott net (remove nospm or make the obvious changes before replying) Carl: Even better brightener for removing the red stains on brass is a 50-50 mix of drugstore peroxide and saturated sodium bisulfate solution (aka "dry pool acid" mixed into warm water). Heated to about 185 F it will strip the red stuff in 10-20 minutes. It has a short half-life, so is best mixed when you need it. (the mixed solution, that is -- the bisulfate pickle will last a long time, once you add the peroxide, the mixed solution begins to degrade.) The bisulfate pickle is relatively benign as acids go. Regards, Bob |
Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
According to Don Foreman :
On 01 Aug 2007 15:23:46 GMT, steamer wrote: [ ... ] --Got some weights/volumes to add to this hack? Two parts peroxide to one part muriatic by volume. It's not fussy. *Which* peroxide? Hydrogen peroxide? That's the most common one, but it could be some other. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
Two parts peroxide to one part muriatic by volume. It's not fussy.
*Which* peroxide? Hydrogen peroxide? That's the most common one, but it could be some other. Yes, hydrogen peroxide. Here is a link to a great site on how to make pc boards by toner transfer, and he recommends the hcl peroxide etch: http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm Another etchant is copper (II) chloride. It's biggest advantage is you never have to throw it away. You can regenerate it by bubbling oxygen or air through it, or if you are in a hurry you can add hydrogen peroxide. Here is an excerpt from http://members.optusnet.com.au/~esey...uCl/index.html which is a very detailed website all about this method: Quote:
-- Regards, Carl Ijames carl dott ijames aat verizon dott net (remove nospm or make the obvious changes before replying) |
Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
According to Carl Ijames :
Two parts peroxide to one part muriatic by volume. It's not fussy. *Which* peroxide? Hydrogen peroxide? That's the most common one, but it could be some other. Yes, hydrogen peroxide. Here is a link to a great site on how to make pc boards by toner transfer, and he recommends the hcl peroxide etch: http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm Thanks for this -- and all that I snipped below. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
|
Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:37:45 -0700, Bob
wrote: On Jul 31, 9:08 pm, "Carl Ijames" wrote: Even better brightener for removing the red stains on brass is a 50-50 mix of drugstore peroxide and saturated sodium bisulfate solution (aka "dry pool acid" mixed into warm water). Heated to about 185 F it will strip the red stuff in 10-20 minutes. It has a short half-life, so is best mixed when you need it. (the mixed solution, that is -- the bisulfate pickle will last a long time, once you add the peroxide, the mixed solution begins to degrade.) The bisulfate pickle is relatively benign as acids go. Regards, Bob Thank you! I have wondered for years what might brighten up brass after silverbrazing boils off the surface zinc leaving it red. I gotta try that! |
Learned new trick with vinegar - peracetic acid
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 04:19:39 GMT, "Carl Ijames"
wrote: Another etchant is copper (II) chloride. It's biggest advantage is you never have to throw it away. You can regenerate it by bubbling oxygen or air through it, or if you are in a hurry you can add hydrogen peroxide. Here is an excerpt from http://members.optusnet.com.au/~esey...uCl/index.html which is a very detailed website all about this method: Interesting. I didn't know there was another web page about this. Here is mine for comparison: http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html Not based on my own work, but from a book long out of print. |
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