Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without using
lead solder?

D.

Lead free solder is widely available... or are you asking about some other
mechanical means to join the pipes?
Jim

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...
Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without
using
lead solder?

D.

Subject: copper plumbing
From: "Capt.Doug"
Date: 21/07/04 04:17 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without using
lead solder?


At least three.

Lead free solder
Compression fittings with olives
Push-fit fittings

--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)
Regione interior.....Scorchio
Regione exterior....Scorchio
Costa...................Scorchio
Chalfont St Peter...Cumulo bloody nimbus as per usual.

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...
Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without
using
lead solder?

D.

It can be silver soldered, but isn't necessary under normal circumstances.

Harold

Capt.Doug wrote:

Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without using
lead solder?

D.
yes, you use lead free solder.. i have been using it for years....
to be in code you need to use lead free solder...looks like the
samething but label on the pack says (LEAD FREE).....

I've used copper-bond epoxy on some of my copper plumbing. It's been 18
years so far with no problems.

http://doityourself.com/store/8408528.htm

Mike H


"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...
Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without
using
lead solder?

D.

On 21 Jul 2004 05:08:24 GMT, oEmails (Dave Baker)
calmly ranted:

Subject: copper plumbing
From: "Capt.Doug"
Date: 21/07/04 04:17 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without using
lead solder?

At least three.

Lead free solder

Freely available.


Compression fittings with olives

With or without pimientos? I like these with brass olives.


Push-fit fittings

? 'Sprain, preese.


---------------------------------------------------
I drive way too fast to worry about my cholesterol.
---------------------------------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Refreshing Graphic Design

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 03:17:20 GMT, "Capt.Doug"
wrote:

Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without using
lead solder?

Several. The easiest is the commercial lead-free plumbing solder
available at almost any home center, and a propane, MAPP or
air-acetylene Prestolite plumber's torch. They have all the bugs
already worked out, if the joint is clean and you don't disturb it as
the solder cools and sets (fractured joint) it's quite permanent.

The option nobody else has mentioned is silver brazing, normally
used on air conditioning refrigerant lines. You will need a hotter
air-acetylene or oxygen-acetylene torch, the right brazing filler
(there are several different formulas to pick for copper-to-brass,
copper-to-copper or copper-to-X and loose or tight fitting joints) and
a different flux than used for soft solder.

Silver braze is overkill for water plumbing, but some people like
swatting flies with a sledgehammer. Go figure. ;-)

Go learn more - http://www.jwharris.com/ is one place to start.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...
Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without
using
lead solder?

D.



I recall hearing that LocTite has a product which can be used for joining
fittings. Whether it's true or not I do not know, but I've been told that
one of their facilities is plumbed that way. I'm not a fan of using
LocTite in place of skill, but it certainly has a place in our world.
Could be that plumbing a house is one of them.

Harold

Capt.Doug wrote:
Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without using
lead solder?

TIG?

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message ...
Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without using
lead solder?

D.

Aside from the lead-free variety solder you have to use these days, I
saw a gizmo on one of the home improvement shows that basically swaged
the fitting and tube together. Supposed to be leak-free. Was pretty
costly, too, but it was fast and since no heat or flame was involved,
it was safe for the unskilled.

Soldering is a basic skill, once you learn how to do it, it's easy.
Just make sure the mating parts are clean. The lead-free solder isn't
quite as easy to use as the old stuff, but it's not that hard,
particularly if you get the matching flux. I've got a ring
burner(more like a mostly closed-"C") for the Little Torch that makes
doing plumbing fittings dead simple.

Stan

"Mike H" 1newsATstelliteDOTmailshellDOTcom wrote in message ...

I've used copper-bond epoxy on some of my copper plumbing. It's been 18
years so far with no problems.


In this case, you were damn lucky!

My I assume that you realize that if the completed joint leaks, there
is no way of repairing it?

By contrast, if a soldered copper joint leaks, you can always re-heat
it and pull it apart, clean it up, and simply resolder it.

Seriously, I cannot imagine anyone who would use anything but solder
to connect sweat type copper plumbing fittings. It makes absolutely no
sense to me.

With respect to compression fittings, you have to be extremely careful
not to put scratches into the pipe when using these things, otherwise
they will drip. I only use them when I have to, and then my leak-free
success rate is around 75%, roughly par for the course as I'm told by
my plumber friends.

Actually the only time that I now use compression fitting on 1/2" or
3/4" copper is where I need to install a cut-off valve up close to a
finished wall, where due to the proximiity of a finished or
combustable surface, the use of a torched sweated fitting is
impossible or impractical. Even then the use of a compression fitting
involves some degree of risk and luck...which I prefer to avoid.

Harry C.

In article , Harry Conover
says...

Actually the only time that I now use compression fitting on 1/2" or
3/4" copper is where I need to install a cut-off valve up close to a
finished wall, where due to the proximiity of a finished or
combustable surface, the use of a torched sweated fitting is
impossible or impractical.

Heh. Then you're not a real plumber. A *real* plumber takes a
claw hammer, bashes out the drywall or peels away the moulding,
runs the joint, and then says 'you better get a carpenter in
here to fix that up. I don't do carpentry - I'm a plumber.'

Either that or they just torch the joint anyhow, and keep
a bucket of water handing if the smoldering wood happens
to burst into flames. Does that look ugly when he's done?
Sure, but 'ya can't see it from his house....'

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Subject: copper plumbing
From: Larry Jaques
Date: 21/07/04 15:58 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 21 Jul 2004 05:08:24 GMT, oEmails (Dave Baker)
calmly ranted:

Subject: copper plumbing
From: "Capt.Doug"
Date: 21/07/04 04:17 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without using
lead solder?

At least three.

Lead free solder

Freely available.


Compression fittings with olives

With or without pimientos? I like these with brass olives.


Push-fit fittings

? 'Sprain, preese.

Don't you westpondians have push-fit fittings yet then ? They've been around
for yonks over here. You just push both ends of the two tubes you're joining
into a push-fit fitting and it seals with an internal O ring and little gripper
claws that grip the copper tube. There's a special tool to unlock them if you
want to remake the joint. They're a bit more spensive but you can slap a
heating system together in minutes rather than hours and when the labour charge
is added in they work out cheaper.

Probably an evolutionary thing. You'll get round to discovering them eventually
along with the metric system, fire, not eating and talking at the same time,
election systems that don't rely on your brother to fudge the results, not
feeling the need to invade every other country in the world...


--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)
Regione interior.....Scorchio
Regione exterior....Scorchio
Costa...................Scorchio
Chalfont St Peter...Cumulo bloody nimbus as per usual.

"Dave Baker" wrote in message
...
You'll get round to discovering them eventually
along with the metric system, fire, not eating and talking at the same
time,
election systems that don't rely on your brother to fudge the results, not
feeling the need to invade every other country in the world...

....Loss of prized posessions (e.g. guns)....

Tim (yeah, well, someone's going to say it some time)

--
"I've got more trophies than Wayne Gretsky and the Pope combined!"
- Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message The option nobody else has
mentioned is silver brazing, normally
used on air conditioning refrigerant lines.

What is different about refrigerant lines that requires the silver?

D.

On 21 Jul 2004 23:41:33 GMT, oEmails (Dave Baker)
calmly ranted:

Subject: copper plumbing
From: Larry Jaques
Push-fit fittings

? 'Sprain, preese.

Don't you westpondians have push-fit fittings yet then ? They've been around
for yonks over here. You just push both ends of the two tubes you're joining
into a push-fit fitting and it seals with an internal O ring and little gripper
claws that grip the copper tube. There's a special tool to unlock them if you
want to remake the joint. They're a bit more spensive but you can slap a
heating system together in minutes rather than hours and when the labour charge
is added in they work out cheaper.

Oh, I think I have seen on progs like This Old House. Yes,
the reason I disregarded them is that they cost 4x that of
nicer available fittings.


Probably an evolutionary thing. You'll get round to discovering them eventually
along with the metric system, fire, not eating and talking at the same time,
election systems that don't rely on your brother to fudge the results, not
feeling the need to invade every other country in the world...

I made a comment about the east pond countries being 3rd world.
Now I see the results of my joke: having to put up with 3rd-worlder
"humor". Blimey, I'm sorry for having said it after listening to
the Canuckistani (and now Brit) whining. Oi!

P.S: We've had fire over here for quite a while, some of us eat
quietly, and invasive brothering should be solved in November,
but only Wakan Tanka/God/Buddha/Allah knows what we'll end up
with to replace him...I only hope he's not another Imperialist.
You guys have had enough of those, too, wot?


---------------------------------------------------
I drive way too fast to worry about my cholesterol.
---------------------------------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Refreshing Graphic Design

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:47:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



P.S: We've had fire over here for quite a while,
Yeah, we gave it to you almost 200 years ago down there at your
officious residence.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Capt.Doug wrote in message
...
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message The option nobody else has
mentioned is silver brazing, normally
used on air conditioning refrigerant lines.

What is different about refrigerant lines that requires the silver?


I believe it's the heat tolerance of the silver. 1100* vs 450* for solder.
Might also be due to stronger joint due to the pressures.

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
snip-----

Heh. Then you're not a real plumber. A *real* plumber takes a
claw hammer, bashes out the drywall or peels away the moulding,
runs the joint, and then says 'you better get a carpenter in
here to fix that up. I don't do carpentry - I'm a plumber.'

Either that or they just torch the joint anyhow, and keep
a bucket of water handing if the smoldering wood happens
to burst into flames. Does that look ugly when he's done?
Sure, but 'ya can't see it from his house....'

Jim


Chuckle!

Harold

On 21 Jul 2004 23:41:33 GMT, oEmails (Dave Baker)
wrote:

Probably an evolutionary thing. You'll get round to discovering them eventually
along with the metric system, fire, not eating and talking at the same time,
election systems that don't rely on your brother to fudge the results, not
feeling the need to invade every other country in the world...


But will they hold 150 lbs of shop air?

G

Gunner


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 03:53:55 GMT, Gerald Miller
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:47:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



P.S: We've had fire over here for quite a while,
Yeah, we gave it to you almost 200 years ago down there at your
officious residence.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

And we exchanged it for lead.
Then you guys discovered beer and havent bothered anyone ever since.

G

Gunner


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
snip-----

Heh. Then you're not a real plumber. A *real* plumber takes a
claw hammer, bashes out the drywall or peels away the moulding,
runs the joint, and then says 'you better get a carpenter in
here to fix that up. I don't do carpentry - I'm a plumber.'

Either that or they just torch the joint anyhow, and keep
a bucket of water handing if the smoldering wood happens
to burst into flames. Does that look ugly when he's done?
Sure, but 'ya can't see it from his house....'

Jim

Chuckle!

Harold

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
snip-----

Heh. Then you're not a real plumber. A *real* plumber takes a
claw hammer, bashes out the drywall or peels away the moulding,
runs the joint, and then says 'you better get a carpenter in
here to fix that up. I don't do carpentry - I'm a plumber.'

Either that or they just torch the joint anyhow, and keep
a bucket of water handing if the smoldering wood happens
to burst into flames. Does that look ugly when he's done?
Sure, but 'ya can't see it from his house....'

Jim

Chuckle!

Harold

Chuckle, hell! Almost spewed Dr. Pepper on the monitor.

michael

Refrigerant needs stronger and more leak resistant joint. Compression
fittings and soft solder just don't give the reliability that is needed
to hold a seal for 15 to 20 years.

Capt.Doug wrote:

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message The option nobody else has
mentioned is silver brazing, normally
used on air conditioning refrigerant lines.


What is different about refrigerant lines that requires the silver?

D.

Ian Stirling wrote:
Capt.Doug wrote:

Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without using
lead solder?


TIG?
Yes.

In fact you can't buy solder that has lead in it for house pluming.

It has high tin content. Have some - don't know if the label still exists.

This house is 16 years old and it was built with that kind of solder.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 03:17:20 GMT, "Capt.Doug"
wrote:

Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without using
lead solder?

D.

Half inch copper pipe can fit 5/8" flair fittings, 3/4" pipe fits
7/8" fittings. Annealing the pipe helps the flair not split.
Antisieze on the threads allows take-apart years later. A high, high
quality flair tool helps alot. Costly fittings, and don't forget to
place the flairnut before flairing.

Tom

"Tom T." wrote in message
...
Half inch copper pipe can fit 5/8" flair fittings...

Do you flare your pipe with flair? :^)

Tim

--
"I've got more trophies than Wayne Gretsky and the Pope combined!"
- Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Nobody has mentioned it yet, but there does exist threaded copper pipe.

Both the house that I rented in Winchester MA and the one I owned in
Lowell MA had threaded copper.

Yes, this is a somewhat rare form of pipe, but I had two houses full of the
stuff. It was joined with solid cast copper fittings with NPT threads.

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...
Is there a way to join copper tubing for the house's plumbing without
using
lead solder?

D.

"frank" wrote in message
...
Nobody has mentioned it yet, but there does exist threaded copper pipe.

Both the house that I rented in Winchester MA and the one I owned in
Lowell MA had threaded copper.

Yes, this is a somewhat rare form of pipe, but I had two houses full of
the
stuff. It was joined with solid cast copper fittings with NPT threads.


No one mentioned it because in today's market, I'm not sure even Bill Gates
would have enough money to go that route. g.

Harold

In article , frank says...

Nobody has mentioned it yet, but there does exist threaded copper pipe.

Both the house that I rented in Winchester MA and the one I owned in
Lowell MA had threaded copper.

Yes, this is a somewhat rare form of pipe, but I had two houses full of the
stuff. It was joined with solid cast copper fittings with NPT threads.

Sure it wasn't brass? That was a common form of water piping
for houses built in the 30s.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

If it was brass, it was the type without zinc.

I have seen plenty of brass pipe. This stuff was/is solid copper.

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , frank says...

Nobody has mentioned it yet, but there does exist threaded copper pipe.

Both the house that I rented in Winchester MA and the one I owned in
Lowell MA had threaded copper.

Yes, this is a somewhat rare form of pipe, but I had two houses full of
the
stuff. It was joined with solid cast copper fittings with NPT threads.

Sure it wasn't brass? That was a common form of water piping
for houses built in the 30s.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Are you sure it was not a copper pipe with a male pipe adaptor sweat on?

Also refrigerant and A/C pipe ca and does have up to 300# psi and some
new refrigerant runs at over 400#. That is why you use sil-fos 15%
silver on the copper to copper. Copper to brass silver solder 40% silver
And as always nitrogen at 2psi must repeat M U S T be flowing thru the
system. If you have an a/c system being repaired for a leak or new
system being installed make dam sure nitrogen is purged thru the system
And if you see some one repairing your system with out nitrogen hooked
up then ask them to stop and do it right and keep the inside of the
system clean .

The easiest is the commercial lead-free plumbing solder
available at almost any home center, and a propane, MAPP or
air-acetylene Prestolite plumber's torch.

Just to add on here, get the stuff with a few percent of
silver in it, it flows MUCH nicer than the straight
tin-antimony variety. And don't be stingy with the flux.

--Glenn Lyford