Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.

Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip. The original was just a long piece of the heating
element. Ive tried crimping a wire connector to it, but it seems to
not grab very well and pulled loose while reinstalling the unit. I
gave it a quick shot with the mig welder using regular welding wire
and gas, and it held for a bit, but was still a bit fragile and broke
free while installing it.

Ive since installed the heating unit, and have a new lead run and
overlapping the stub.

How do I splice them together? I do have temporary use of a mig with
gas, and stainless wire as well as regular. I also have a tiny bit of
silver solder, regular brazing rod, etc etc.

Any suggestions? Its possible I can excavate a bit more wire for a nut
and bold mechanical connection...but would rather not break out any
more of the ceramic.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.

Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip. The original was just a long piece of the heating
element. Ive tried crimping a wire connector to it, but it seems to
not grab very well and pulled loose while reinstalling the unit. I
gave it a quick shot with the mig welder using regular welding wire
and gas, and it held for a bit, but was still a bit fragile and broke
free while installing it.

Ive since installed the heating unit, and have a new lead run and
overlapping the stub.

How do I splice them together? I do have temporary use of a mig with
gas, and stainless wire as well as regular. I also have a tiny bit of
silver solder, regular brazing rod, etc etc.

Any suggestions? Its possible I can excavate a bit more wire for a nut
and bold mechanical connection...but would rather not break out any
more of the ceramic.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell
I would think a small "split bolt" electrical connector (sometimes
called "bugnut") would work fine in a situation like this. They can
be tightened up with wrenches to be very secure, and many are made of
brass or copper. Don't think soldering will hold up due to the heat
involved.
Ken

Kanthal do give details about welding FeAlCr elements like A1. Its best
done with tig and using element wire as filler with the same composition
as the element. I would expect anything but the FeAlCr would fail fairly
quickly. As I understand it after the first heating the wire does become
prone to breaking when handled so bend it as little as possible.

Gunner wrote:

Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.

Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip. The original was just a long piece of the heating
element. Ive tried crimping a wire connector to it, but it seems to
not grab very well and pulled loose while reinstalling the unit. I
gave it a quick shot with the mig welder using regular welding wire
and gas, and it held for a bit, but was still a bit fragile and broke
free while installing it.

Ive since installed the heating unit, and have a new lead run and
overlapping the stub.

How do I splice them together? I do have temporary use of a mig with
gas, and stainless wire as well as regular. I also have a tiny bit of
silver solder, regular brazing rod, etc etc.

Any suggestions? Its possible I can excavate a bit more wire for a nut
and bold mechanical connection...but would rather not break out any
more of the ceramic.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Deffinetly need a mechanical connection! Try a small dia. thick walled
copper tube and crimp in on with a visegrip. Is ther room for a split bolt?
Either shop-made or purchased?

--
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.

Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip. The original was just a long piece of the heating
element. Ive tried crimping a wire connector to it, but it seems to
not grab very well and pulled loose while reinstalling the unit. I
gave it a quick shot with the mig welder using regular welding wire
and gas, and it held for a bit, but was still a bit fragile and broke
free while installing it.

Ive since installed the heating unit, and have a new lead run and
overlapping the stub.

How do I splice them together? I do have temporary use of a mig with
gas, and stainless wire as well as regular. I also have a tiny bit of
silver solder, regular brazing rod, etc etc.

Any suggestions? Its possible I can excavate a bit more wire for a nut
and bold mechanical connection...but would rather not break out any
more of the ceramic.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Hey Ken and Gunner,

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:51:00 GMT, (Ken
Sterling) wrote:
Big SNIP


I would think a small "split bolt" electrical connector (sometimes
called "bugnut") would work fine in a situation like this. They can
be tightened up with wrenches to be very secure, and many are made of
brass or copper. Don't think soldering will hold up due to the heat
involved.
Ken


I think in the trade, the items Ken describes would be called Burndy
connectors. The come in quite a variety of sizes, some quite small.
You may be able to do similar with the "guts" only from the smallest
of the old Marr wire connectors (not the Marrette wire nuts).

And Gunner, just remember that the most heat is generated at the point
of highest resistance, so if it's possible to get more than one
connector on it, do so to decrease the resistance there. Be sure that
the nichrome is well cleaned, and if possible "double-up" the end of
the wire into a little loop to clamp on, but be careful if it's
brittle. Then just do a quick heating of the element and then
re-tighten everything. Some Alumatrox anti-oxidant will help during
"assembly", even though it will burn away quickly.

It's also possible that the switch you mention is what started the
problem, so check it as best you can too.

Take care. Good luck.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.

Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip. The original was just a long piece of the heating
element. Ive tried crimping a wire connector to it, but it seems to
not grab very well and pulled loose while reinstalling the unit. I
gave it a quick shot with the mig welder using regular welding wire
and gas, and it held for a bit, but was still a bit fragile and broke
free while installing it.

Ive since installed the heating unit, and have a new lead run and
overlapping the stub.

How do I splice them together? I do have temporary use of a mig with
gas, and stainless wire as well as regular. I also have a tiny bit of
silver solder, regular brazing rod, etc etc.

Any suggestions? Its possible I can excavate a bit more wire for a nut
and bold mechanical connection...but would rather not break out any
more of the ceramic.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell
The only right way to repair a broken element is with a new element.
If this requires new "ceramic," you can patch or make a complete new
one with castable refractory or possibly furnace cement.
It is not a daunting task. People make metal and glass melting
furnaces every day.


Ron Thompson
On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space Center, USA

http://www.plansandprojects.com

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is
to fill the world with fools.
--Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

There are a couple of different types of heating element wire. One is
Nichrome and the other is Kanthal. The Kanthal elements are used in
pottery kilns and other places. Kanthal can take higher temperatures
than Nichrome. The Kanthal is a iron aluminum alloy that depends on
the aluminum forming a oxide coating over the wire. So it is hard to
splice and also hard to weld or solder. Hard as in pretty much
impossible.

Nichrome however can be silver soldered. Don't know what you have,
but I would try silver solder. If all else fails, you can replace
the entire element reasonbly cheaply. Seattle Pottery sells Kanthal
elements but maybe not ones for as small a oven ( unless your
diamensions are in feet ). IIRC They also sell kanthal wire that is
not already coiled. If the element is Nichrome, I might have an
element that would work.

Dan


Gunner wrote in message . ..
Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.

Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

Gunner wrote in message . ..
Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.

Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip. The original was just a long piece of the heating
element. Ive tried crimping a wire connector to it, but it seems to
not grab very well and pulled loose while reinstalling the unit. I
gave it a quick shot with the mig welder using regular welding wire
and gas, and it held for a bit, but was still a bit fragile and broke
free while installing it.

Ive since installed the heating unit, and have a new lead run and
overlapping the stub.

How do I splice them together? I do have temporary use of a mig with
gas, and stainless wire as well as regular. I also have a tiny bit of
silver solder, regular brazing rod, etc etc.

Any suggestions? Its possible I can excavate a bit more wire for a nut
and bold mechanical connection...but would rather not break out any
more of the ceramic.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner

Gunner, I've had reasonable results brazing some of these things,
although I would prefer spot welding if I had a rig to do it.

Mechanical pressure connections just don't work for very long.

Harry C.

Spot welding is the only way to connect to the wire and it needs to be
completely imbedded back into the ceramic as otherwise it will get too hot
and just fry. In addition, the wire is extremely brittle after it has been
heated good once so any mechanical motion may break it off again in a new
spot.

--
Bob May
Losing weight is easy! If you ever want to lose weight, eat and drink less.
Works every time it is tried!

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.

Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip. The original was just a long piece of the heating
element. Ive tried crimping a wire connector to it, but it seems to
not grab very well and pulled loose while reinstalling the unit. I
gave it a quick shot with the mig welder using regular welding wire
and gas, and it held for a bit, but was still a bit fragile and broke
free while installing it.

Ive since installed the heating unit, and have a new lead run and
overlapping the stub.

How do I splice them together? I do have temporary use of a mig with
gas, and stainless wire as well as regular. I also have a tiny bit of
silver solder, regular brazing rod, etc etc.

Any suggestions? Its possible I can excavate a bit more wire for a nut
and bold mechanical connection...but would rather not break out any
more of the ceramic.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

I once repaired the nichrome element of a waffle iron using silver solder.
I simply hooked the element ends and crimped them together. Then I applied
flux and soldered with 45% silver solder and a propane torch. The solder
flowed readily and made a nice little bullet shaped blob over the
connection. Testing showed that the connection was good and it ran much
cooler that the element wire on either side of blob since it's resistance
was very low. The element wire got bright red, but the blob was so cool
that it did not glow at all. It was 30 years ago and the waffle iron was
still working at last report.

Randy

Hi Gunner,

In my experience




"Gunner" wrote in message
...
Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.

Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip. The original was just a long piece of the heating
element. Ive tried crimping a wire connector to it, but it seems to
not grab very well and pulled loose while reinstalling the unit. I
gave it a quick shot with the mig welder using regular welding wire
and gas, and it held for a bit, but was still a bit fragile and broke
free while installing it.

Ive since installed the heating unit, and have a new lead run and
overlapping the stub.

How do I splice them together? I do have temporary use of a mig with
gas, and stainless wire as well as regular. I also have a tiny bit of
silver solder, regular brazing rod, etc etc.

Any suggestions? Its possible I can excavate a bit more wire for a nut
and bold mechanical connection...but would rather not break out any
more of the ceramic.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Gunner wrote:

Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.
...
Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip.

Given a similar situation on an electric stove, I made a new end with
O/A and some #6 Stellite. This was at least five years ago and the
contact is still bright and shiny. In your situation, I would weld on a
piece of SS or Nichrome wire much heavier than the heating element using
the Stellite as filler.

Ted

We repair oven elements by either MIG welding the leads together using
stainless steel MIG wire if they are NiChrome wires, or TIG welding if
Moly

Bob

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:08:38 GMT, Ted Edwards
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.
...
Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip.

Given a similar situation on an electric stove, I made a new end with
O/A and some #6 Stellite. This was at least five years ago and the
contact is still bright and shiny. In your situation, I would weld on a
piece of SS or Nichrome wire much heavier than the heating element using
the Stellite as filler.

Gunner, I have a few pieces of stellite rod that Ted gave me. If you
have TIG or O/A I'd be glad to send you a bit of it in an envelope.
It's .132" dia but you could always grind it down. Hammering it
doesn't work; it shatters.

Hi Gunner,

I own about 10 annealing ovens for my glass work. my largest has a 10 ft
long ID. So I deal with elements on a regular basis.

It's been my experience that any "fix" is a temper one. When elements get
old they get real brittle and tend to break real easy. They also get thinner
as they age, especially if it has been used at high temps. An elements over
all length determines the heat range created with x amount of watts of
electricity put to it. As they get older, thinner, or shorter, they will
burn hotter and tend to burn off quicker. As mentioned by others, using a
bolt to connect will also create a hotspot at the connection.

My best advise is to just replace the element. I suggest that you replace
the others as well. They can't be in to much different shape. By doing so
you'll be good to go for years to come. If not., you may be doing it all
over again next week, or next month......or.....

If you can't find the replacement you can make your own. Just gauge the wire
size, count the number of turns. Use a wood dowel or threaded rod in a
drill to wrap it up. You can get nicrom at McMaster's.

Or many of the kiln manufactures will wrap them for you. You will just have
to stretch them to length to fit your oven.

Thanks for the welcome. I found the thread on cutting glass and I'll add my
2 cents worth. I didn't think I would be able to contribute to much in this
group, guess I was wrong . Glad to help when I can.


Randy
SC Glass Tech
Scam Diego, Comi-fornia
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/randy2954/my_photos

Randy wrote:

I own about 10 annealing ovens for my glass work. my largest has a 10 ft
long ID. So I deal with elements on a regular basis.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/randy2954/my_photos

HOLIE SMOKIES...... YOU DA MAN.

I just spent a half hour looking at every picture in your album.

If you wouldn't mind posting a little BIO or CV I'd be very interested
in reading about your experiences.

Now I know I might be a little forward here but just how much
is some of that stuff worth, how long does it take to make,
etc., etc., etc.

My curious mind really wants to know.

After looking at that rather long line of pieces in for repair I
thought to myself.... there's got to be a lot of money in those
bottles.

And a lot of time.

There is also a Tophet A resistance wire.
http://www.hcrosscompany.com/metals/nichrome.htm

RJ

--
"Have no one say it, and say it to your shame, that all was well here, until
YOU came."




"Dan Caster" wrote in message
m...
There are a couple of different types of heating element wire. One is
Nichrome and the other is Kanthal.

Addendum:
Tophet A falls into the Nichrome group. Interesting reading, though.

RJ

--
"Have no one say it, and say it to your shame, that all was well here, until
YOU came."




"Backlash" wrote in message
...
There is also a Tophet A resistance wire.
http://www.hcrosscompany.com/metals/nichrome.htm

RJ

--
"Have no one say it, and say it to your shame, that all was well here,
until
YOU came."




"Dan Caster" wrote in message
m...
There are a couple of different types of heating element wire. One is
Nichrome and the other is Kanthal.

Thanks Shiver,

I've been working glass for more than 30 years. I'm a second generation
glass blower, my dad got me started as an artist when I was a kid. My family
had a small gift shop in a tourist town in Michigan. It happened to be close
to Midland Mi. where Dow Chemicals world head quarters are. I eventually
ended up there and worked for Dow as a glassblower for 13 years .
At one point Dow had 5 glass shops around the country. The main shop in
Midland was designed to house 20 glass blowers. When I started there they
had 9 men left on the floor and all the other shops were closed already. We
specialized in building what they couldn't buy anywhere else. From lab scale
to production and pilot plant scale we did it all. There are 4 men left now
for Dow globally. The tool & dye shop is gone along with most of the other
skilled trades that used be there. Isn't globalization great!

The tool & dye shop was across the street form the glass shop. We always had
a great rivalry going on as you can imagine. They were a great bunch of guys
and good friends. We had lots of fun with each other, but most of all we had
great respect for each others trade.

I left Dow in '93 and came to San Diego to start my little business. I guess
I was tired of all the disrespect from the corporate cock bights that ran
Dow. I didn't trust them with the future of my career anymore. I only had to
look around to see what was happing all over Michigan with the auto
industry. (which a lot of you guys probably used to work for one way or
another) Being that I was single and didn't have a family to worry about I
decided to take the risk and went for it.

It hasn't been easy, but I'm still here. In the last 11 years I have taken
about 10 days off total. Just in case you were thinking that I have it made!

In an effort to keep this short and not boring the hell out you all I'll end
it here. I didn't want to get to political so early. I hope I didn't offend
anyone, especially any of you corporate cock bights, I know how sensitive
you can be.

Randy H.
SC Glass Tech
Scam Diego, Comi-fornia
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/randy2954/my_photos







"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
Randy wrote:

I own about 10 annealing ovens for my glass work. my largest has a 10 ft
long ID. So I deal with elements on a regular basis.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/randy2954/my_photos

HOLIE SMOKIES...... YOU DA MAN.

I just spent a half hour looking at every picture in your album.

If you wouldn't mind posting a little BIO or CV I'd be very interested
in reading about your experiences.

Now I know I might be a little forward here but just how much
is some of that stuff worth, how long does it take to make,
etc., etc., etc.

My curious mind really wants to know.

After looking at that rather long line of pieces in for repair I
thought to myself.... there's got to be a lot of money in those
bottles.

And a lot of time.

Gunner wrote:

Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.

Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip. The original was just a long piece of the heating
element. Ive tried crimping a wire connector to it, but it seems to
not grab very well and pulled loose while reinstalling the unit. I
gave it a quick shot with the mig welder using regular welding wire
and gas, and it held for a bit, but was still a bit fragile and broke
free while installing it.

Ive since installed the heating unit, and have a new lead run and
overlapping the stub.

How do I splice them together? I do have temporary use of a mig with
gas, and stainless wire as well as regular. I also have a tiny bit of
silver solder, regular brazing rod, etc etc.

Any suggestions? Its possible I can excavate a bit more wire for a nut
and bold mechanical connection...but would rather not break out any
more of the ceramic.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell
Having worked with pottery kilns - the heater is like glass or almost.

The expansion and temperature really hammers a silver solder job -

Maybe TIG - really. Or a mechanical clamp.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:04:56 -0700, "Randy H."
wrote:

Thanks Shiver,

I've been working glass for more than 30 years. I'm a second generation
glass blower, my dad got me started as an artist when I was a kid. My family
had a small gift shop in a tourist town in Michigan. It happened to be close

Holland? Im originally from the UP and Grayling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 08:49:11 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:04:56 -0700, "Randy H."
wrote:

Thanks Shiver,

I've been working glass for more than 30 years. I'm a second generation
glass blower, my dad got me started as an artist when I was a kid. My family
had a small gift shop in a tourist town in Michigan. It happened to be close

Holland? Im originally from the UP and Grayling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Clare, Mt. Pleasant, or Frankenmuth are a lot closer. I still work
for Dow. 1993 was bloody, but not like we're going through now. Total
top down reshuffle, about 3000+ out. The main problem is it's taken 6
months and still isn't over.

For myself, I enjoy the work, or used to. I always said I'd stay
until they ran me off as long as it was fun. I always thought the end
of my career would be they'd run me off, now I'm not so sure.

Oh well, the severance package is good and I'd get full retirement.
But I'll sure be glad when this bull**** is over one way or another,
and I don't care which. I don't intend to go through another round in
five years.

I always had a lot of respect for Dow glassblowers. In Texas, Rex
Epps and I believe a couple of others formed their own outfit when
they retired, and have done very well servicing Dow as well as others,
so I'd say they're better off on the outside. See
http://www.sg-p.com/

And in case anyone's wondering, I'm not retiring in Midland except
long enough for my wife to retire.

Pete Keillor

Gunner wrote:
Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.

Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip. The original was just a long piece of the heating
element. Ive tried crimping a wire connector to it, but it seems to
not grab very well and pulled loose while reinstalling the unit. I
gave it a quick shot with the mig welder using regular welding wire
and gas, and it held for a bit, but was still a bit fragile and broke
free while installing it.

Ive since installed the heating unit, and have a new lead run and
overlapping the stub.

How do I splice them together? I do have temporary use of a mig with
gas, and stainless wire as well as regular. I also have a tiny bit of
silver solder, regular brazing rod, etc etc.

Any suggestions? Its possible I can excavate a bit more wire for a nut
and bold mechanical connection...but would rather not break out any
more of the ceramic.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Considering the application, I'd go with a mechanical connection.

--
Samiam is Scott A. Moore

Personal web site: http:/www.moorecad.com/scott
My electronics engineering consulting site: http://www.moorecad.com
ISO 7185 Standard Pascal web site: http://www.moorecad.com/standardpascal
Classic Basic Games web site: http://www.moorecad.com/classicbasic
The IP Pascal web site, a high performance, highly portable ISO 7185 Pascal
compiler system: http://www.moorecad.com/ippas

Being right is more powerfull than large corporations or governments.
The right argument may not be pervasive, but the facts eventually are.

Scott Moore wrote:

Considering the application, I'd go with a mechanical connection.

I very much doubt that will work. Heat begets corrosion, corosion
begets heat, goto 1. Before I had welding gear, I tried just about
every sort of mechanical connection as well as siver solder. None of
them worked for long. Ususally O/A and a Little Torch is the way to
go. It's seldom possible to use my TIG because there's usually no way
to get a good low resistance ground. After all, we are talking about
resistance wire.

Ted

In article ,
Peter T. Keillor III wrote:


And in case anyone's wondering, I'm not retiring in Midland except
long enough for my wife to retire.

After spending a couple years in Midland (in the Swede Rd/Sugnet Ave
area) I think I'm safe in saying that *NOBODY* in their right mind wants
to retire in Midland!

I am curious, though... Has the city *FINALLY* gotten lucky, and had
that god-awful eyesore/money pit everybdy calls "The Tridge" wash
downstream to Saginaw yet?

Somehow, I expect not, since even the flood (In '89? '90?) that put the
Circle Bowl (Used to be at Ashmun & Jefferson, right on the circle, but
seemed to be trying hard to go belly-up about the time I was leaving) at
Ashmun Circle underwater didn't seem to faze that overblown pile of
junk, despite leaving it ten feet under water.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
I respond to Email as quick as humanly possible. If you Email me and get no
response, see http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html Short
form: I'm trashing EVERYTHING that doesn't contain a password in the subject.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 16:38:40 GMT, Don Bruder wrote:

In article ,
Peter T. Keillor III wrote:


And in case anyone's wondering, I'm not retiring in Midland except
long enough for my wife to retire.

After spending a couple years in Midland (in the Swede Rd/Sugnet Ave
area) I think I'm safe in saying that *NOBODY* in their right mind wants
to retire in Midland!

I am curious, though... Has the city *FINALLY* gotten lucky, and had
that god-awful eyesore/money pit everybdy calls "The Tridge" wash
downstream to Saginaw yet?

Somehow, I expect not, since even the flood (In '89? '90?) that put the
Circle Bowl (Used to be at Ashmun & Jefferson, right on the circle, but
seemed to be trying hard to go belly-up about the time I was leaving) at
Ashmun Circle underwater didn't seem to faze that overblown pile of
junk, despite leaving it ten feet under water.

Nope, it's still there. The natives are proud of it. I don't mind
it, particularly, although it's hardly the tourist attraction they
believe. The area's o.k. in the summer, it's just the other 11
months.

Pete Keillor

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 16:27:05 GMT, Ted Edwards
wrote:

Scott Moore wrote:

Considering the application, I'd go with a mechanical connection.

I very much doubt that will work. Heat begets corrosion, corosion
begets heat, goto 1. Before I had welding gear, I tried just about
every sort of mechanical connection as well as siver solder. None of
them worked for long. Ususally O/A and a Little Torch is the way to
go. It's seldom possible to use my TIG because there's usually no way
to get a good low resistance ground. After all, we are talking about
resistance wire.

Lil' Torch is good -- but you can use TIG. Just use a backing block
of thick metal (steel or copper) with the wire(s) held just above
the backing block and bring the gas-shelded arc to the wire(s). I
even make thermocouples this way if I want them welded in an inert
atmosphere.

Hi Gunner,

Our gift shop was in Frankenmuth for many years. We were at the top of hill
between where Bonners used to be and Zenders at the bottom of the hill. We
sold out in 1979. My folks moved to California. I stuck around and got into
Dow.

One thing I miss for sure is the summers in the north lands! Not so much the
winters.

Take Care,

Randy H.
SC Glass Tech
Scam Diego, Comi-fornia


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:04:56 -0700, "Randy H."
wrote:

Thanks Shiver,

I've been working glass for more than 30 years. I'm a second generation
glass blower, my dad got me started as an artist when I was a kid. My
family
had a small gift shop in a tourist town in Michigan. It happened to be
close

Holland? Im originally from the UP and Grayling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Hi Guys,

I often show people a picture of the tridge that is on my credit union Visa
card. Now who else has a three way bridge to nowhere?

As I sit here writing this I hear the police chopper over head and sirens in
the back ground. I'm literally 15 miles from the Mexican border. My shop is
in a gang ridden area of San Diego called Bario Logan.. I like to call my
shop "the Alamo" I commonly see the Mexican flag flying across the street
accompanied with blasting mariachi musica! My building gets tagged at least
twice a week from competing gangs. Every few blocks is a different gang.
They like to **** on each others leg by tagging . The Police say the 30th
St. gang is the largest in SD. with more than 500 members. My shop is on
29th St. A few years ago on 30th St. a man was walking home from the store
with his kid. He was beaten to death in front of his kid by 5 gang members
because they wanted $5.00. I have recently purchased 2 hand guns and I'm
applying for a CCW.

Trust me, .....Midland is not so bad.

Randy H
SC Glass Tech
Scam Diego, Comi-fornia

Hi Guys,

I often show people a picture of the tridge that is on my credit union Visa
card. Now who else has a three way bridge to nowhere?

As I sit here writing this I hear the police chopper over head and sirens in
the back ground. I'm literally 15 miles from the Mexican border. My shop is
in a gang ridden area of San Diego called Bario Logan.. I like to call my
shop "the Alamo" I commonly see the Mexican flag flying across the street
accompanied with blasting mariachi musica! My building gets tagged at least
twice a week from competing gangs. Every few blocks is a different gang.
They like to **** on each others leg by tagging . The Police say the 30th
St. gang is the largest in SD. with more than 500 members. My shop is on
29th St. A few years ago on 30th St. a man was walking home from the store
with his kid. He was beaten to death in front of his kid by 5 gang members
because they wanted $5.00. I have recently purchased 2 hand guns and I'm
applying for a CCW.

Trust me, .....Midland is not so bad.

Randy H
SC Glass Tech
Scam Diego, Comi-fornia





Geeeezzzz..... I think I'd buy a dumptruck load of guns and ammo,
dumped out on the street, and then leave.... the problem will take
care of itself... Then you could go back after all the shooting is
over and take care of the one guy left... G
Ken.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:36:38 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 16:27:05 GMT, Ted Edwards
wrote:

snip
It's seldom possible to use my TIG because there's usually no way
to get a good low resistance ground. After all, we are talking about
resistance wire.

Lil' Torch is good -- but you can use TIG. Just use a backing block
of thick metal (steel or copper) with the wire(s) held just above
the backing block and bring the gas-shelded arc to the wire(s). I
even make thermocouples this way if I want them welded in an inert
atmosphere.

Now that's a neat trick. Thanks!

Pete Keillor

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 00:53:32 -0700, "Randy H."
wrote:

Hi Guys,

I often show people a picture of the tridge that is on my credit union Visa
card. Now who else has a three way bridge to nowhere?

As I sit here writing this I hear the police chopper over head and sirens in
the back ground. I'm literally 15 miles from the Mexican border. My shop is
in a gang ridden area of San Diego called Bario Logan.. I like to call my
shop "the Alamo" I commonly see the Mexican flag flying across the street
accompanied with blasting mariachi musica! My building gets tagged at least
twice a week from competing gangs. Every few blocks is a different gang.
They like to **** on each others leg by tagging . The Police say the 30th
St. gang is the largest in SD. with more than 500 members. My shop is on
29th St. A few years ago on 30th St. a man was walking home from the store
with his kid. He was beaten to death in front of his kid by 5 gang members
because they wanted $5.00. I have recently purchased 2 hand guns and I'm
applying for a CCW.

Trust me, .....Midland is not so bad.

Randy H
SC Glass Tech
Scam Diego, Comi-fornia

Dang, Randy! Get the hell out of there while you can. I know the
move would be disruptive, but from the looks of your work (very
nice!), your customers will find you. I bet you could find somewhere
more central to your clientele, anyway, although finding it at a
reasonable price wouldn't be as easy.

As far as Midland goes, it's fine except for living in Dowland with
some of the ridiculously stuck up (ABOUT WHAT?!) third generation
employees. It's just not home. I knew when we moved up here we'd
miss family (over 600 showed up at the last reunion) and salt water.
As a matter of fact, we're taking the boat back to Texas and leaving
it there. We'll ride the company shuttle down (no cost, X trips a
year allowable) to fish and visit.

Good luck with your location. I hope those macho fools don't decide
you have a lot of money or tools before you decide to git.

Pete Keillor

Scott Moore wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Some time back, I managed to scrounge up another Thermalyne heat
treating oven. Cute lil thing, about a 5x5x8 cavity.
Checking to see why it wouldnt heat, I found that one leg of the
heating element had broken.

This particular oven has three sides made of the element embedded in a
ceramic, so three sides come out at one time. The leg from the switch
broke off flush with the top of the ceramic. I carefuly chipped away
at the ceramic until I got about 3/8" of the lead exposed. It needs
about a 3" piece of some thing spliced to it, to make the run to the
terminal strip. The original was just a long piece of the heating
element. Ive tried crimping a wire connector to it, but it seems to
not grab very well and pulled loose while reinstalling the unit. I
gave it a quick shot with the mig welder using regular welding wire
and gas, and it held for a bit, but was still a bit fragile and broke
free while installing it.

Ive since installed the heating unit, and have a new lead run and
overlapping the stub.

How do I splice them together? I do have temporary use of a mig with
gas, and stainless wire as well as regular. I also have a tiny bit of
silver solder, regular brazing rod, etc etc.

Any suggestions? Its possible I can excavate a bit more wire for a nut
and bold mechanical connection...but would rather not break out any
more of the ceramic.

Thanks in advance.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


Considering the application, I'd go with a mechanical connection.

I saw a reply above that mentioned MIG - gosh - shoot some SS on it. The big
question is can it make contact with metal. I bet the thermal expansion problem
is a problem.

A new one isn't that expensive - but if one has a TIG or MIG - give it a try if you
are into it - and let us know.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Don Foreman wrote:

Lil' Torch is good -- but you can use TIG. Just use a backing block
of thick metal (steel or copper) with the wire(s) held just above
the backing block and bring the gas-shelded arc to the wire(s). I
even make thermocouples this way if I want them welded in an inert
atmosphere.

Good idea! I'll try that.

Ted