This was posted on the Hugh Hewitt web log.



From a USMC Captain stationed near Fallujah, on the modern-day
successors to Bob Hope's USO tours:

"All,

I've finally experienced something of interest that I can write
about with no concern for breaching our operational security.
Recently, Ted Nugent and Toby Keith came out to Camp Fallujah
as part of their multi-stop, month long USO tour.

Yes, you heard it right: Ted Nugent, Mr. Cat Scratch Fever himself,
and Toby Keith, America's post-9/11 Leading Country Man played to
a packed house of Marines and sailors at Camp Fallujah from 2330
until 0100 the next morning.

Their schedule was rigorous; before their late night arrival, they
spent the last night in Afghanistan, stopped over in Baghdad,
played a show at another base, and then came out to Camp Fallujah
before leaving for yet another show. When they arrived at our base,
they had only slept briefly on an airplane for the past 36 hours.

In this environment overseas, it's difficult to understand what
would motivate someone to travel thousands of miles and risk their
lives simply to entertain. Being a natural skeptic, I figured it
was mostly a publicity stunt. Now, having experienced it from the
end of someone involved in the backstage planning, and having seen
these guys up close and personal, I've got a different and very
positive perspective.

Most of the crowd out here was interested in an opportunity to see
and meet Toby Keith. It may sound funny, but sometimes I forget a
bit what it's like to be a young Marine... half of these kids out
here were just heading off to boot camp when Keith penned his ode
to patriotism and playback "Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue"
that received so much airplay after 9/11. For my part, I've long
respected Nugent's ardent pro American and pro environment stances.
A lover of the outdoors, Nugent has passionately lived and expressed
the ideal that every human being has a moral responsibility to
live their lives in order to "be the best they can be". He is often
quoted saying that he expects his friends, his associates, and even
his children to "live their lives like Marines." His vision of the
American dream combined with his opinions and lifestyle choices
made him uncommon among the Hollywood crowd over the years.

Because of his recent popularity with the younger Marines, the MEF
Headquarters Group had a long list of volunteers willing to escort
Toby Keith. However, only a handful of Marines - mostly the "30 or
over" crowd - had ever even heard of the guy we began simply calling
"The Nuge". Since I had an interest, I became a liaison officer
assisting the entourage and escorting Ted while he was onboard the Camp.

Typical of all matters involving any military operation, nothing
happened according to plan. The helicopters landed in the Landing Zone
(LZ) right at 2215. One problem: they were the wrong helos... the
VIPs had been delayed, and nobody knew when, or if, they were coming
in. One show had already been canceled that day, and the original
schedule had placed the VIP party at their overnight site by 2200.
I figured they probably wouldn't show up; after all, these guys were
celebrities who needed to be taken care of, right? Certainly their
handlers would force them to get their beauty sleep, wouldn't they?

Around 2330, we heard the distinctive whirring of inbound helicopters,
and a pair of Army Blackhawks screamed down into the LZ. In the
glow of a nearly full moon, I approached the LZ hoping these were
our guys... I knew there were a couple thousand people back at one
of our buildings whose morale had skyrocketed at the thought of
watching the pair perform. After the LZ landed, a figure in a pair
of baggy trousers, a T-shirt, and a scruffy beard jumped out of the
Blackhawk and wondered out in the general direction. Even though the
man wore civilian clothes, I wasn't sure if we had our team... this
guy could have been a reporter, or had any number of reasons for
his style of clothing. Besides, he seemed to be the only one walking
off the bird. Celebrities wouldn't just stroll around in a war zone...
would they? It had to be a stagehand or something.

The figure approached me in the dark and pumped my hand; in the
shadows, I still couldn't see his face. "Hey man, I'm Toby Keith."
Roger that. Welcome to Camp Fallujah, Mr. Keith.

Keith looked over his shoulder and gave a thumbs-up to the rest of
the posse, along with the international hand-and-arm signal for
"follow me"... clearly he was a driving force in the entire operation.
The entourage moved off the bird and over to our escort party. The
Nuge was a little further back in the crowd; we shook hands and both
he and Toby immediately began engaging the Marines in photo-ops,
handshakes, and we're-so-damn-proud-of-yous to the Marines standing
by for security. Nobody was here to see this. There was no red carpet,
no news reporters, and the Public Affairs Office hadn't started
snapping their photos yet. These guys weren't looking for a photo op;
they were out here standing around in shorts and T-shirts and jeans
high-fiving Marines on a dusty LZ for only one reason: they cared.
And it showed.

Once things settled down and we were ready to drive from the LZ to
the concert area, Nugent took a seat in a Humvee and I sat down next
to him. We chatted briefly about a few things, but I had a bigger
concern: after inquiring about the state of his hunger, it turned
out The Nuge hadn't had any chow for several hours. I knew refreshments
were set up at the backstage area, but I also realized these guys
would be mobbed. The thing of it is... they expected it. And they
really didn't care. They wouldn't sleep until 0300 at the earliest,
and they knew they'd be back onstage at 0800 the next day. So, I did
what any Marine of any rank would have done in the same situation:
I ripped open a couple of MREs, rifled through them, and grabbed
the items that were easiest to eat in a hurry.

The Nuge was impressed: "Yeah man! Improvise, adapt, and overcome,
baby!!"

As a Marine, I couldn't help but enjoy being around someone whose wild
side is well advertised, but who takes such unabashed pride in pouring
their heart and soul into their life. One of the doors on the Humvee
kept slipping ajar, and in a move reminiscent of any Lance Corporal,
Ted whipped out his Gerber multi-tool and jimmied with the hinge until
it was fixed to his satisfaction. Furthermore, Ted kept telling me
that if we took incoming, "my Glock 10 is loaded and I'm ready to rock
and roll!" Being well inside the perimeter of our base; Nugent and his
Glock 10 probably wouldn't do much against a mortar or rocket attack.
I made a mental note that if anything happened, I would have to dive
on top of The Nuge and pin him down, if for no other reason than to
keep him from endangering my Marines or himself (rock star or not,
Marines don't react well to weapons pointed in their direction).

The show itself was a huge success. Toby and "Uncle Ted" obviously
enjoyed being together and playing together; Nugent wisecracked they
were "just like Lennon and McCartney, only with guns!" It was amazing
to see: two major stars accustomed to performing in ornate stadiums
and with sound systems that would blow the ears off a dozen jumbo
elephants, standing around on a bare stage with nothing but two acoustic
guitars and two microphones. They hadn't showered in about three days.
There was no manager, no make-up person, and no costume changes. It
was clear that these two entertainers were saying thanks not only by
playing for Marines, but by playing for Marines on Marine terms. They
were tired, hungry, and dirty. But they were enjoying every minute
of it. And so were we.

Ted and I chatted more after the show, and I got a picture snapped with
him before he and Toby Keith jumped back onto the Blackhawk at 0145.
Nugent isn't a man who is shy about his opinion, and even in the times
when I found myself generally agreeing with his points, I could see
how people who pride themselves on being refined or intellectual would
be put off by his brash and aggressive nature. For me... well, Marines
are aggressive by nature, and Ted fit in with our crowd just fine.

As I waved goodbye and reflected on my time with The Nuge, I realized
I didn't remember much of his music. I'm sure most of his songs were
grand odes to wine, women, and song. I don't know if he ever sang
anything that exuded nobility. But I know this: Ted Nugent and Toby
Keith earned my respect as men tonight. The pair of entertainers, their
assistants, and two USO workers set foot in a war zone where anything
could happen; they knew they could be attacked at any time. For these
civilians, that risk was worth the reward of expressing the gratitude
of America towards those sent into harm's way. They did it because
they cared.

Thanks guys. You can rock and roll with us any time. But, Ted, if you
plan to come back, bring a rifle instead of a Glock and stay a couple
of days. It sounds to me like we need to work you into the watch
rotation
out on the perimeter.

Semper fi,
Capt Dave

"A vote for Kerry is a de facto vote for bin Laden."
Strider

Nice one Gunner. Ted is a one of a kind guy. I can just picture him with a
bunch of marines in Iraq. I drove him in a cab in Phoenix once and he gave
me tickets to his concert. All I knew about him at the time was "Cat scratch
fever" and Wang dang sweet poontang". He's a bit more interesting than that.

"Gunner" wrote in message
news

This was posted on the Hugh Hewitt web log.



From a USMC Captain stationed near Fallujah, on the modern-day
successors to Bob Hope's USO tours:

"All,

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:19:58 +0100, "bobmologna"
wrote:

Nice one Gunner. Ted is a one of a kind guy. I can just picture him with a
bunch of marines in Iraq. I drove him in a cab in Phoenix once and he gave
me tickets to his concert. All I knew about him at the time was "Cat scratch
fever" and Wang dang sweet poontang". He's a bit more interesting than that.


Total wild man, but one with a damned good brain. Ive met him a
couple times over the years as we know some archery people in common
back in Michigan.

His wife is no slouch either.
http://www.tednugent.com/qotf/index.shtml

http://www.tednugent.com/

http://www.tnkfk.com/sandbox/
Gunner


"Gunner" wrote in message
news

This was posted on the Hugh Hewitt web log.



From a USMC Captain stationed near Fallujah, on the modern-day
successors to Bob Hope's USO tours:

"All,




That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:18:42 GMT, Gunner
calmly ranted:

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:19:58 +0100, "bobmologna"
wrote:

Nice one Gunner. Ted is a one of a kind guy. I can just picture him with a
bunch of marines in Iraq. I drove him in a cab in Phoenix once and he gave
me tickets to his concert. All I knew about him at the time was "Cat scratch
fever" and Wang dang sweet poontang". He's a bit more interesting than that.

Total wild man, but one with a damned good brain. Ive met him a
couple times over the years as we know some archery people in common
back in Michigan.

His wife is no slouch either.
http://www.tednugent.com/qotf/index.shtml

Beautiful, intelligent, and full of energy? What a combo!
But how could they -do- that to the poor kid? _ROCCO_?


================================================== =======
What doesn't kill you + http://diversify.com
....makes you hurt more. + Web application programming
================================================== =======

My wife liked him but stopped liking him when she heard about the pedophilia
and that he is being sued for failing to pay child support on one of his
children out of wedlock, just after the "Father of the year award" Possibly
Fox news is liberal but here is the article;
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,112401,00.html



"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:18:42 GMT, Gunner
calmly ranted:

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:19:58 +0100, "bobmologna"
wrote:

Nice one Gunner. Ted is a one of a kind guy. I can just picture him with
a
bunch of marines in Iraq. I drove him in a cab in Phoenix once and he
gave
me tickets to his concert. All I knew about him at the time was "Cat
scratch
fever" and Wang dang sweet poontang". He's a bit more interesting than
that.

Total wild man, but one with a damned good brain. Ive met him a
couple times over the years as we know some archery people in common
back in Michigan.

His wife is no slouch either.
http://www.tednugent.com/qotf/index.shtml

Beautiful, intelligent, and full of energy? What a combo!
But how could they -do- that to the poor kid? _ROCCO_?


================================================== =======
What doesn't kill you + http://diversify.com
...makes you hurt more. + Web application programming
================================================== =======

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:26:24 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:

My wife liked him but stopped liking him when she heard about the pedophilia
and that he is being sued for failing to pay child support on one of his
children out of wedlock, just after the "Father of the year award" Possibly
Fox news is liberal but here is the article;
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,112401,00.html


1. No mention of pedophilia
2. He has been paying child support.
3. He has been paying child support but the mother is not happy with
the amount. Hint..when the terms "worth millions and millions" are
mentioned regarding the father..its a sure sign Deep Pocket Syndrome
is being attempted.

How old is the child? When did he father it? Was she simply a 20
minute groupie after a show? Was there any resonable expectation that
the mother had not taken precautions to prevent pregnancy? Was there
any reasonable cause to believe that the mother got knocked up
intentionally with the idea of milking any produced prodiney for a lot
of money?


From that article.

"Karen Gutowski, 43, sued Nugent for custody and support in August in
Strafford County Superior Court. Her lawyer, Jeffrey Runge, said
Nugent, 55, has acknowledged he is the father and paid minimal support
but has never met the boy.

Nugent's lawyers, meanwhile, have asked the courts to make appropriate
custodial and visitation rights for Nugent.

Runge says Nugent is trying to intimidate his client into withdrawing
questions about Nugent's finances.

In a Foster's Daily Democrat interview last fall, Runge said that
"given the fact he's worth millions and millions of dollars, he's
paying the amount someone making about $20,000 per year would pay."

Eight years after the child was born, Runge wrote, Nugent
"miraculously decides he wants some component of custody. Indeed
(Nugent's) motives ... are suspicious and appear more intended to
intimidate and harass the petitioner," Runge wrote.

Runge lists 25 sources of income for Nugent including concerts, album
sales, Nugent's radio and television shows, beef jerky sales, and a
recent book "God, Guns & Rock n' Roll."


Gunner







"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:18:42 GMT, Gunner
calmly ranted:

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:19:58 +0100, "bobmologna"
wrote:

Nice one Gunner. Ted is a one of a kind guy. I can just picture him with
a
bunch of marines in Iraq. I drove him in a cab in Phoenix once and he
gave
me tickets to his concert. All I knew about him at the time was "Cat
scratch
fever" and Wang dang sweet poontang". He's a bit more interesting than
that.

Total wild man, but one with a damned good brain. Ive met him a
couple times over the years as we know some archery people in common
back in Michigan.

His wife is no slouch either.
http://www.tednugent.com/qotf/index.shtml

Beautiful, intelligent, and full of energy? What a combo!
But how could they -do- that to the poor kid? _ROCCO_?


================================================== =======
What doesn't kill you + http://diversify.com
...makes you hurt more. + Web application programming
================================================== =======



That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:26:24 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:

My wife liked him but stopped liking him when she heard about the pedophilia
and that he is being sued for failing to pay child support on one of his
children out of wedlock, just after the "Father of the year award"


How old is the child? When did he father it? Was she simply a 20
minute groupie after a show? Was there any resonable expectation that
the mother had not taken precautions to prevent pregnancy?


So Bill Clinton should be excused if he had a "reasonable
expectation" that Monica wouldn't brag to Linda Tripp that
she gave the Pres a hummer?

Ned Simmons

If a gentleman never kisses and tells;

Why would the dumb blower?

She was infatuated by his power and wanted some love lava!

My ex wife threatened me with the pedophilia accusations if I didn't raise
the support amount. I replied, go right ahead, I'll tell that you told me
that your brother made you give him hummers. Which is true!

Refinish King


"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:26:24 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:

My wife liked him but stopped liking him when she heard about the
pedophilia
and that he is being sued for failing to pay child support on one of
his
children out of wedlock, just after the "Father of the year award"


How old is the child? When did he father it? Was she simply a 20
minute groupie after a show? Was there any resonable expectation that
the mother had not taken precautions to prevent pregnancy?


So Bill Clinton should be excused if he had a "reasonable
expectation" that Monica wouldn't brag to Linda Tripp that
she gave the Pres a hummer?

Ned Simmons

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:06:18 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:26:24 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:

My wife liked him but stopped liking him when she heard about the pedophilia
and that he is being sued for failing to pay child support on one of his
children out of wedlock, just after the "Father of the year award"


How old is the child? When did he father it? Was she simply a 20
minute groupie after a show? Was there any resonable expectation that
the mother had not taken precautions to prevent pregnancy?


So Bill Clinton should be excused if he had a "reasonable
expectation" that Monica wouldn't brag to Linda Tripp that
she gave the Pres a hummer?

Ned Simmons

Of course not, nor was there any mention made of the Nuge attempting
to skate from his responsibilities. If there were, please point them
out. However, Alan did make several spurious claims about pedophilia
and failure to pay child support, when in fact the article made NO
mention of pedophilia, and did say he was paying child support. Just
not the amount the mother wanted to gouge out of him.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

1. No mention of pedophilia
His first wife was a minor 13 years younger, to avoid prosecution he
petitioned for guardianship, no urban legend there. I would not want him
babysitting my daughter.

2. He has been paying child support.

" he's paying the amount someone making about $20,000 per year would pay."
Eight years after the child was born, Runge wrote, Nugent
"miraculously decides he wants some component of custody. Indeed
(Nugent's) motives ... are suspicious and appear more intended to
intimidate and harass the petitioner," Runge wrote.

Yes he has been paying, and you are right that she is not happy with the
amount. I'll grant that there's legal maneuvering going on too.

But its his 8 year old daughter for gosh sake, If you or I had millions we
might at least pay for a few privileges for our own flesh and blood..

It looks like he's cleaned up his act allot since his wild days, and I like
some of his views and hobbies, yours too. I just am having trouble seeing
the hero there.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:06:18 -0400, Ned Simmons
calmly ranted:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:26:24 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:

My wife liked him but stopped liking him when she heard about the pedophilia
and that he is being sued for failing to pay child support on one of his
children out of wedlock, just after the "Father of the year award"


How old is the child? When did he father it? Was she simply a 20
minute groupie after a show? Was there any resonable expectation that
the mother had not taken precautions to prevent pregnancy?


So Bill Clinton should be excused if he had a "reasonable
expectation" that Monica wouldn't brag to Linda Tripp that
she gave the Pres a hummer?

Nugent didn't lie about it, under oath, in court and in front of
God and everybody, either, now did he?


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Do. Or do not. * Stylin' Web Design Services
There is no try. --Yoda * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 04:07:40 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:


1. No mention of pedophilia
His first wife was a minor 13 years younger, to avoid prosecution he
petitioned for guardianship, no urban legend there. I would not want him
babysitting my daughter.

2. He has been paying child support.

" he's paying the amount someone making about $20,000 per year would pay."
Eight years after the child was born, Runge wrote, Nugent
"miraculously decides he wants some component of custody. Indeed
(Nugent's) motives ... are suspicious and appear more intended to
intimidate and harass the petitioner," Runge wrote.

Yes he has been paying, and you are right that she is not happy with the
amount. I'll grant that there's legal maneuvering going on too.

But its his 8 year old daughter for gosh sake, If you or I had millions we
might at least pay for a few privileges for our own flesh and blood..

Sigh...8 yr old son. Did you by any chance read exactly how much the
child support amount was? The notation was something to the
effect.."he's paying the amount someone making about $20,000 per year
would pay."


I know one guy who makes $23k year, and makes $1200 a month payments.
His life style...well he doesnt have one, to be blunt. And its
recently been discovered that he is NOT the biological father. Courts
still say he has to pay.

There is lots of missing data in that story. Is the boy Nugents son?
Or did he simply cough up the money as so many people do, to settle
the thing out of court?


It looks like he's cleaned up his act allot since his wild days, and I like
some of his views and hobbies, yours too. I just am having trouble seeing
the hero there.

Until you have all the relevant data..how about reserving judgement,
and base your opinion on what you actually know? Im still curious
though..where did the pedophilia comment come from? As you
know..thats a kiss of death these days..and bandying that sort of
accustion around is really bad juju, unless you have some hard
evidence.

In fact, Ive done some serious web searching and cannot find anything
to tie Nugent and pedophilia together.

As to the child custody thing..Im sure others here can give horror
stories about it and our resident Tool Calendar Girl of the Month,
Sue, can likely do also as she works in the welfare industry for the
state of California.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Gunner wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 04:07:40 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:


1. No mention of pedophilia
His first wife was a minor 13 years younger, to avoid prosecution he
petitioned for guardianship, no urban legend there. I would not want him
babysitting my daughter.

2. He has been paying child support.

" he's paying the amount someone making about $20,000 per year would pay."
Eight years after the child was born, Runge wrote, Nugent
"miraculously decides he wants some component of custody. Indeed
(Nugent's) motives ... are suspicious and appear more intended to
intimidate and harass the petitioner," Runge wrote.

Yes he has been paying, and you are right that she is not happy with the
amount. I'll grant that there's legal maneuvering going on too.

But its his 8 year old daughter for gosh sake, If you or I had millions we
might at least pay for a few privileges for our own flesh and blood..

Sigh...8 yr old son. Did you by any chance read exactly how much the
child support amount was? The notation was something to the
effect.."he's paying the amount someone making about $20,000 per year
would pay."

I know one guy who makes $23k year, and makes $1200 a month payments.
His life style...well he doesnt have one, to be blunt. And its
recently been discovered that he is NOT the biological father. Courts
still say he has to pay.

There is lots of missing data in that story. Is the boy Nugents son?
Or did he simply cough up the money as so many people do, to settle
the thing out of court?


It looks like he's cleaned up his act allot since his wild days, and I like
some of his views and hobbies, yours too. I just am having trouble seeing
the hero there.

Until you have all the relevant data..how about reserving judgement,
and base your opinion on what you actually know? Im still curious
though..where did the pedophilia comment come from? As you
know..thats a kiss of death these days..and bandying that sort of
accustion around is really bad juju, unless you have some hard
evidence.

In fact, Ive done some serious web searching and cannot find anything
to tie Nugent and pedophilia together.

As to the child custody thing..Im sure others here can give horror
stories about it and our resident Tool Calendar Girl of the Month,
Sue, can likely do also as she works in the welfare industry for the
state of California.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Hey! Sue never told me she's Tool Calendar Girl of the Month!

mikey

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:23:36 -0700, michael
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 04:07:40 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:


1. No mention of pedophilia
His first wife was a minor 13 years younger, to avoid prosecution he
petitioned for guardianship, no urban legend there. I would not want him
babysitting my daughter.

2. He has been paying child support.

" he's paying the amount someone making about $20,000 per year would pay."
Eight years after the child was born, Runge wrote, Nugent
"miraculously decides he wants some component of custody. Indeed
(Nugent's) motives ... are suspicious and appear more intended to
intimidate and harass the petitioner," Runge wrote.

Yes he has been paying, and you are right that she is not happy with the
amount. I'll grant that there's legal maneuvering going on too.

But its his 8 year old daughter for gosh sake, If you or I had millions we
might at least pay for a few privileges for our own flesh and blood..

Sigh...8 yr old son. Did you by any chance read exactly how much the
child support amount was? The notation was something to the
effect.."he's paying the amount someone making about $20,000 per year
would pay."

I know one guy who makes $23k year, and makes $1200 a month payments.
His life style...well he doesnt have one, to be blunt. And its
recently been discovered that he is NOT the biological father. Courts
still say he has to pay.

There is lots of missing data in that story. Is the boy Nugents son?
Or did he simply cough up the money as so many people do, to settle
the thing out of court?


It looks like he's cleaned up his act allot since his wild days, and I like
some of his views and hobbies, yours too. I just am having trouble seeing
the hero there.

Until you have all the relevant data..how about reserving judgement,
and base your opinion on what you actually know? Im still curious
though..where did the pedophilia comment come from? As you
know..thats a kiss of death these days..and bandying that sort of
accustion around is really bad juju, unless you have some hard
evidence.

In fact, Ive done some serious web searching and cannot find anything
to tie Nugent and pedophilia together.

As to the child custody thing..Im sure others here can give horror
stories about it and our resident Tool Calendar Girl of the Month,
Sue, can likely do also as she works in the welfare industry for the
state of California.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Hey! Sue never told me she's Tool Calendar Girl of the Month!

Wow! This is news to me, too. G
Sue

mikey

Refinish King wrote:


My ex wife threatened me with the pedophilia accusations if I didn't raise
the support amount. I replied, go right ahead, I'll tell that you told me
that your brother made you give him hummers. Which is true!

Refinish King



What's the big deal?

That's just keeping it in the family and avoiding potential inbreeding
problems at the same time. Eminently practical save for the implied
coercion.

VEG

I know one guy who makes $23k year, and makes $1200 a month payments.
His life style...well he doesnt have one, to be blunt. And its
recently been discovered that he is NOT the biological father. Courts
still say he has to pay.

I'm with ya on that point, I hope you offer to keep his guns for a while,
I'd flip if I was him.

Back to Ted
There are two sides to every story, and two lawyers that use tactics that
are less than friendly.
But if he has 4 kids with Shemane, and admittedly an 8 year old with Karen
Gutowski conceived when he was 47 and she 35 and never met the child. I'll
reserve judgment on his father of the year status.


I'm still curious though..where did the pedophilia comment come from?

When I was 19 I had a band in San Diego, I had the hots for a 16 year old,
her father said he shoot me on sight if he caught me around his daughter.(he
found a note she wrote to me)
By the time I was 30, it had been a long time since I even considered a
highschool age girl.

OK pedophilia is a strong word, what do you call a highly intelligent 30
year old (Ted Nugent), with women throwing themselves at him ,
who had to get legal guardianship of a 17 year old girl he's been sleeping
with to avoid statutory charges. (Father of the year?)
He did later marry her and had two children with her. After the divorce she
died in a car wreck and he got custody of the kids.

I have three girls, we found out there are 600 sex offenders in our area, My
wife panicked, I told her that probably many of them were 18 to 20 year
olds caught with 16 and 17 year old girls and were added to the statistics,
but I personally have trouble with a 30year old and a 17year old, I guess it
was OK a hundred years ago, but than again 13 year old girls were getting
married then too.

Admiring Ted Nugent's accomplishments is one thing and traveling out to
Fallujah is heroic, but so did a lot of playboy bunnies, etc.

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:06:18 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:26:24 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:

My wife liked him but stopped liking him when she heard about the pedophilia
and that he is being sued for failing to pay child support on one of his
children out of wedlock, just after the "Father of the year award"


How old is the child? When did he father it? Was she simply a 20
minute groupie after a show? Was there any resonable expectation that
the mother had not taken precautions to prevent pregnancy?


So Bill Clinton should be excused if he had a "reasonable
expectation" that Monica wouldn't brag to Linda Tripp that
she gave the Pres a hummer?

Ned Simmons

Of course not, nor was there any mention made of the Nuge attempting
to skate from his responsibilities. If there were, please point them
out.

No, he did the right thing and acknowledged the child. But
you implied that his expectation when he was poking the
kid's mom has a bearing on his financial responsibility.

He may get screwed when it comes time to pay up, but I
don't see what his expectations of a groupie have to do
with it. If anything, a more reasonable person might have
thought, "Hey, I'm a rock star, this girl's gonna take
advantage of my celebrity to screw me if she gets knocked
up." Or in Clinton's case, "I'm one of the most powerful,
and hated, men in the free world, this BJ could result in a
partisan ****storm."

Fair or not, they both get to deal with the predictable
consequences of rash behavior, regardless of what they
might have expected.

However, Alan did make several spurious claims about pedophilia
and failure to pay child support, when in fact the article made NO
mention of pedophilia, and did say he was paying child support. Just
not the amount the mother wanted to gouge out of him.

Courtney Love said on Howard Stern's show that she
performed oral sex on Nugent when she was 12. Even if I
were sure it was true, I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor
arguing that case g.

Ned Simmons

In article ,
Larry Jaques says...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:06:18 -0400, Ned Simmons
calmly ranted:

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:26:24 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:

My wife liked him but stopped liking him when she heard about the pedophilia
and that he is being sued for failing to pay child support on one of his
children out of wedlock, just after the "Father of the year award"


How old is the child? When did he father it? Was she simply a 20
minute groupie after a show? Was there any resonable expectation that
the mother had not taken precautions to prevent pregnancy?


So Bill Clinton should be excused if he had a "reasonable
expectation" that Monica wouldn't brag to Linda Tripp that
she gave the Pres a hummer?

Nugent didn't lie about it, under oath, in court and in front of
God and everybody, either, now did he?


My comment wasn't about the character of either Clinton or
Nugent, but directed at Gunner's implication that Nugent's
expectation that a groupie should be using birth contol
might limit his responsibility as a parent.

Ned Simmons

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 04:50:58 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 04:07:40 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:


1. No mention of pedophilia
His first wife was a minor 13 years younger, to avoid prosecution he
petitioned for guardianship, no urban legend there. I would not want him
babysitting my daughter.

2. He has been paying child support.

" he's paying the amount someone making about $20,000 per year would pay."
Eight years after the child was born, Runge wrote, Nugent
"miraculously decides he wants some component of custody. Indeed
(Nugent's) motives ... are suspicious and appear more intended to
intimidate and harass the petitioner," Runge wrote.

Yes he has been paying, and you are right that she is not happy with the
amount. I'll grant that there's legal maneuvering going on too.

But its his 8 year old daughter for gosh sake, If you or I had millions we
might at least pay for a few privileges for our own flesh and blood..

Sigh...8 yr old son. Did you by any chance read exactly how much the
child support amount was? The notation was something to the
effect.."he's paying the amount someone making about $20,000 per year
would pay."


I know one guy who makes $23k year, and makes $1200 a month payments.
His life style...well he doesnt have one, to be blunt. And its
recently been discovered that he is NOT the biological father. Courts
still say he has to pay.

There is lots of missing data in that story. Is the boy Nugents son?
Or did he simply cough up the money as so many people do, to settle
the thing out of court?


It looks like he's cleaned up his act allot since his wild days, and I like
some of his views and hobbies, yours too. I just am having trouble seeing
the hero there.

Until you have all the relevant data..how about reserving judgement,
and base your opinion on what you actually know? Im still curious
though..where did the pedophilia comment come from? As you
know..thats a kiss of death these days..and bandying that sort of
accustion around is really bad juju, unless you have some hard
evidence.

In fact, Ive done some serious web searching and cannot find anything
to tie Nugent and pedophilia together.

As to the child custody thing..Im sure others here can give horror
stories about it and our resident Tool Calendar Girl of the Month,
Sue, can likely do also as she works in the welfare industry for the
state of California.

Tool Calendar Girl of the Month? I don't have to pose in a bathing
suit or less do I? I refuse to expose my body to public ridicule.
G
As to child custody it isn't really my forte. Most of my cases
involve dads (and sometimes moms) who have no desire for custody or
any contact at all with their children. I do know a little about
child support, but again that also isn't my forte.
As to your friend's case I have a couple of thoughts. He may not have
completed the paperwork explaining what his income and expenses are.
Therefore his child support would be based on what the mother of his
child says about those things. Maybe he didn't show up in court.
These things *can* be changed. The most likely scenario that I can
think of regarding your friend is that in California (I can't speak
for anywhere else) when the absent parent is more than $10,000 behind
(I believe that's the figure) the DA can up the child support to 1/2
the NCP's (non-custodial parent) income. If that is the case how did
your friend get that far behind? I've heard of cases where the
"father" turns out to not be the father and the court doesn't care. I
have no idea why this is, but I think they may base this on whether
the parents lived together when the child was little and he was for
all intents and purposes the "father" in that he was in the role of
father.
My ex-husband, The Asshole, was ordered to pay $126 per child (4
kids). Due to working for cash, sometimes being unemployed, changing
jobs, etc I got $0 a lot of the time. By the time he got a regular
job he was more than $10,000 behind so his child support was raised to
something over $800. He, of course, threatened to quit his job. I
can't say that I blame him. I contacted the DA and requested that
they lower the amt back to the original. They said they couldn't do
it!!! So, in panic, I started writing The Asshole checks and sending
him the difference. Guess what? After about three months he quit his
job anyway and ran away to Alaska where he's worked for cash ever
since. Sigh. Thank God for the Permanent Fund.
As for Mr. Nugent's case he probably ought to be paying more. I agree
with the other posters who commented on the fact that *he* could have
done something to prevent the girl from becoming pregnant. Guess he
shoulda been a little smarter. I find it rather odd that after all
this time he wants some sort of custody. But, as you said, I'm sure
there's a lot that isn't public knowledge.
Sue


Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 15:24:33 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:


I know one guy who makes $23k year, and makes $1200 a month payments.
His life style...well he doesnt have one, to be blunt. And its
recently been discovered that he is NOT the biological father. Courts
still say he has to pay.


paternity laws like that come from english common law, where if the
wife was pregnant at the time of the divorce the child was legally
considered to be his. today we have the technology to prove otherwise,
but the wheels of the law turn slowly....

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 22:51:11 -0700, calmly ranted:

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 15:24:33 GMT, "Alan Black"
wrote:

I know one guy who makes $23k year, and makes $1200 a month payments.
His life style...well he doesnt have one, to be blunt. And its
recently been discovered that he is NOT the biological father. Courts
still say he has to pay.

paternity laws like that come from english common law, where if the
wife was pregnant at the time of the divorce the child was legally
considered to be his. today we have the technology to prove otherwise,
but the wheels of the law turn slowly....

"Do you know why Justice is blindfolded? She isn't blind. She just
can't bear to watch." --Christian Slater in "Who is Cletis Tout?"


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Do. Or do not. * Stylin' Web Design Services
There is no try. --Yoda * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Sue wrote:



My ex-husband, The Asshole, was ordered to pay $126 per child (4
kids). Due to working for cash, sometimes being unemployed, changing
jobs, etc I got $0 a lot of the time.

Sue


Did you ever notice that the "other" party in a divorce is always named
"Asshole"?

Couldn't let that one go untouched, Sue. Still friends?g

mikey

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:48:54 -0700, michael
wrote:

Sue wrote:



My ex-husband, The Asshole, was ordered to pay $126 per child (4
kids). Due to working for cash, sometimes being unemployed, changing
jobs, etc I got $0 a lot of the time.

Sue


Did you ever notice that the "other" party in a divorce is always named
"Asshole"?

LOL This is not evidence of a bitter ex-wife. Actually, his friends
nicknamed him that *before* I even met him (hence the upper case T and
A). You'd think I'd have paid attention. ( Now as for me being a
****ing bitch - no one ever called me that before *I* met *him*. G


Couldn't let that one go untouched, Sue. Still friends?g

Of course. G
Sue - formerly the ****ing bitch and now just a plain old bitch


mikey