I am seeking suggestions re. repair of an outside faucet (hose bib). The
problem is difficulty turning off the faucet so that it won't leak a small
stream. It takes a lot of strength to turn the handle hard enough to
completely shut off the flow. And then when it is turned off, the washer
sticks in the seat making it difficult to turn on again. It is really
desirable to make it work easily so my wife can handle the outside watering
chores.

With a faucet grinding tool I took the seat down maybe 1/6" or so in an
attempt to clean it up. That made no difference and I am afraid to grind
much more for fear of totally ruining the seat. Looking into it with a
flashlight, the seat looks shiny from the grinding but there is a triangle
shaped black spot (cavitation/corrosion ?) on one side. The mark is only on
one side and I am guessing it is the result of leakage past a blow hole or
blemish of some kind in the brass.. As stated, I am afraid to grind on it
any more - the spot was there before the initial grind so I'm guessing it is
pretty deep.

Is there any way to tell if the seat is removable from the outside? I know
that some faucets have replaceable seats, but I can't see it well enough to
determine if it has any "wrenching" surfaces. If it isn't replaceable and I
jam something into it to try to unscrew it, the faucet will be ruined. If I
continue to grind on the seat to get below the damage, and there isn't
enough seat left, the faucet will be ruined. I don't relish the idea of
tearing into the wall to replace the faucet. Suggestions please.

Bob Swinney

Robert Swinney wrote:
... repair of an outside faucet ... Suggestions please.

I suggest that you fasten a ball-valve hose shut off like this directly
to the faucet:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7768871025
(I'd use a brass one).

Then turn the faucet on, leave it on and use the ball-valve to turn the
water on and off.

Bob

In article ,
"Robert Swinney" wrote:

If by some unlikely miracle it has a removable seat, the center hole
should be a hex shape so you can stick an allen wrench in it, IME.

enough seat left, the faucet will be ruined. I don't relish the idea of
tearing into the wall to replace the faucet.

Have your tear into the wall without relish (try some mustard, perhaps).
It's $10-20 bucks for a new through-wall freeze proof, and unless you've
done all this grinding without a trying a new washer (you don't mention
trying a new washer) that's probably what it will take. Put in an access
door when you fix the wall so it's not a big deal the next time.

The triangle is most likely the hole in the side of the back end where
the water pipe enters the valve from the side. Wide in the middle and
pointy to the side? Looks like the intersection of a cone and a small
cylinder, as seen from the wide end of the cone?

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Robert Swinney wrote:
... repair of an outside faucet ... Suggestions please.

I suggest that you fasten a ball-valve hose shut off like this directly
to the faucet:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7768871025
(I'd use a brass one).

Then turn the faucet on, leave it on and use the ball-valve to turn the
water on and off.

Bob

To add to that suggestion since this is a metalworking group - Take a
ball valve, the current frostproof sill cock and fabricate a hybrid
arrangement so that the current valve stem actuates the ball valve
feeding into the current feed pipe to the outside. Shouldn't take more
than an evening of work and will help reinforce the value of all those
expensive tools in the basement.

Pete C.

In article , Robert Swinney says...


Is there any way to tell if the seat is removable from the outside? I know
that some faucets have replaceable seats, but I can't see it well enough to
determine if it has any "wrenching" surfaces.

Removeable seats have either a hex or square center to them. Blow
out as much water as you can and inspect closely with a light.

If it's not removeable then you need to bit the bullet and get into
the wall to replace it. In my house the exterior faucets enter into
the basement, right above the sill. I'm suprised yours is high
enough to wind up inside an interior wall on the first floor.

Most frost-proof faucets you buy today seal with an O-ring on the
end of the long stem. There's no flat washer held on with a screw,
like in the older ones. If/When you do it, be sure to slant the
shank of the faucet downwards so the water inside will drain out
after it's shut off, and I like to put a 1/4 turn ball valve
right behind it, for obvious reasons.

Jim


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==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Thanx to all respondents. Perhaps, I didn't make it clear - this is a
freeze-proof faucet. Thus the seat is 14" deep and very hard to see with a
flashlight in the long hole. The recommendation of leaving the old seat
open and fitting a new faucet on the outside is a good one. It provides an
easy solution without the onerous task of tearing into the wall. Thanks
guys!

Bob (what a plumber needs to know is **** won't flow uphill and Friday is
payday) Swinney


"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Robert Swinney says...


Is there any way to tell if the seat is removable from the outside? I
know
that some faucets have replaceable seats, but I can't see it well enough
to
determine if it has any "wrenching" surfaces.

Removeable seats have either a hex or square center to them. Blow
out as much water as you can and inspect closely with a light.

If it's not removeable then you need to bit the bullet and get into
the wall to replace it. In my house the exterior faucets enter into
the basement, right above the sill. I'm suprised yours is high
enough to wind up inside an interior wall on the first floor.

Most frost-proof faucets you buy today seal with an O-ring on the
end of the long stem. There's no flat washer held on with a screw,
like in the older ones. If/When you do it, be sure to slant the
shank of the faucet downwards so the water inside will drain out
after it's shut off, and I like to put a 1/4 turn ball valve
right behind it, for obvious reasons.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sat, 27 May 2006 11:16:09 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

Thanx to all respondents. Perhaps, I didn't make it clear - this is a
freeze-proof faucet. Thus the seat is 14" deep and very hard to see with a
flashlight in the long hole. The recommendation of leaving the old seat
open and fitting a new faucet on the outside is a good one. It provides an
easy solution without the onerous task of tearing into the wall. Thanks
guys!

Which will work fine, right up until the next hard freeze. After
which you are quite likely to have problems, the only question being
their severity.

Worst case, do you want to start tearing out floors and walls
chasing down the mother of all mold growths? Funny thing about that,
if the outlet pipe on the sillcock freezes and splits, you get a
hidden slow water leak inside the wall, and mold can grow and fester
in there for months before emerging with a vengeance.

They didn't spend all the extra money and effort installing a
freeze-proof sillcock on your house just for ****s and grins, they did
it because you live where that hard freezes are a normal occurrence.

Bob (what a plumber needs to know is **** won't flow uphill and Friday is
payday) Swinney

And you also have to know what you Don't Know. Fix it right.

If you want to put a secondary shutoff someplace easy to get to just
to stop the leak, put a shutoff valve and a drain valve down in the
nice warm basement, and manually drain the pipe to the sillcock in the
winter.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Thanx, Bruce. But, I live on a slab and the plumbing comes up through it.
If I put an auxiliary faucet onto the existing one, I will be sure to take
if off in the winter time. I may try to grind the seat one more time to see
if I can get past the eroded, cavitated, place. I'm not sure if the leaky
seat is removable. I may try driving a hex into it and trying to unscrew
it. Of course, if I do all this, the seat will be surely ruined and I will
have to do something - tear out the wall, etc.

Bob Swinney
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 May 2006 11:16:09 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

Thanx to all respondents. Perhaps, I didn't make it clear - this is a
freeze-proof faucet. Thus the seat is 14" deep and very hard to see with
a
flashlight in the long hole. The recommendation of leaving the old seat
open and fitting a new faucet on the outside is a good one. It provides
an
easy solution without the onerous task of tearing into the wall. Thanks
guys!

Which will work fine, right up until the next hard freeze. After
which you are quite likely to have problems, the only question being
their severity.

Worst case, do you want to start tearing out floors and walls
chasing down the mother of all mold growths? Funny thing about that,
if the outlet pipe on the sillcock freezes and splits, you get a
hidden slow water leak inside the wall, and mold can grow and fester
in there for months before emerging with a vengeance.

They didn't spend all the extra money and effort installing a
freeze-proof sillcock on your house just for ****s and grins, they did
it because you live where that hard freezes are a normal occurrence.

Bob (what a plumber needs to know is **** won't flow uphill and Friday is
payday) Swinney

And you also have to know what you Don't Know. Fix it right.

If you want to put a secondary shutoff someplace easy to get to just
to stop the leak, put a shutoff valve and a drain valve down in the
nice warm basement, and manually drain the pipe to the sillcock in the
winter.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

I am seeking suggestions re. repair of an outside faucet (hose bib). The
problem is difficulty turning off the faucet so that it won't leak a small
stream. It takes a lot of strength to turn the handle hard enough to
completely shut off the flow. And then when it is turned off, the washer
sticks in the seat making it difficult to turn on again. It is really
desirable to make it work easily so my wife can handle the outside watering
chores.

With a faucet grinding tool I took the seat down maybe 1/6" or so in an
attempt to clean it up. That made no difference and I am afraid to grind
much more for fear of totally ruining the seat. Looking into it with a
flashlight, the seat looks shiny from the grinding but there is a triangle
shaped black spot (cavitation/corrosion ?) on one side. The mark is only on
one side and I am guessing it is the result of leakage past a blow hole or
blemish of some kind in the brass.. As stated, I am afraid to grind on it
any more - the spot was there before the initial grind so I'm guessing it is
pretty deep.

Is there any way to tell if the seat is removable from the outside? I know
that some faucets have replaceable seats, but I can't see it well enough to
determine if it has any "wrenching" surfaces. If it isn't replaceable and I
jam something into it to try to unscrew it, the faucet will be ruined. If I
continue to grind on the seat to get below the damage, and there isn't
enough seat left, the faucet will be ruined. I don't relish the idea of
tearing into the wall to replace the faucet. Suggestions please.

Bob Swinney
Bob,
There is a slight chance that the entire freeze-proof faucet is
threaded into a female elbow inside the wall. Some are soldered, some
have male threads. Maybe you could just unscrew the entire faucet
from the outside, get a new replacement unit (8", 10" or whatever) and
thread it back into the fitting in the wall....???
Ken.

In article , Robert Swinney
says...

Thanx, Bruce. But, I live on a slab and the plumbing comes up through it.
If I put an auxiliary faucet onto the existing one, I will be sure to take
if off in the winter time. I may try to grind the seat one more time to see
if I can get past the eroded, cavitated, place. I'm not sure if the leaky
seat is removable. I may try driving a hex into it and trying to unscrew
it. Of course, if I do all this, the seat will be surely ruined and I will
have to do something - tear out the wall, etc.

You could do the job complete in less time you've been worrying about
it - basically it means opening a small hole in the wall less than
a foot square so you can either unsolder the old one and solder in
the new one, or determine that it really is threaded and unscrew it.

The patch can be a new bit of drywall or you could put a wood panel
over the hole, painted to match, so you can get back in there should
the need arise. The need will arise.

1) accurately determine the inside location for the opening. Take
measurements from known points, ie window edges, etc.

2) if you are sweating the pipes in the wall, soak down the
wood well to start, have a large bucket of water and a fire
extinguisher standing by at the ready. Get a fire insulation
blanket (sold at HD for exactly this purpose, it's glass fiber)
or an old asbestos shingle to prevent the flame from playing on
woodwork. Keep a fire watch on the finished project for an hour
or so, just in case.

3) pressurize the line and check for leaks *before* you seal
up the wall. Sounds crazy but in the heat of the moment you
might just button-er-up before checking....

4) purchase the highest quality fixture you can find. Removable
seat a plus.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 28 May 2006 08:33:37 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Robert Swinney
says...

Thanx, Bruce. But, I live on a slab and the plumbing comes up through it.
If I put an auxiliary faucet onto the existing one, I will be sure to take
if off in the winter time. I may try to grind the seat one more time to see
if I can get past the eroded, cavitated, place. I'm not sure if the leaky
seat is removable. I may try driving a hex into it and trying to unscrew
it. Of course, if I do all this, the seat will be surely ruined and I will
have to do something - tear out the wall, etc.

You could do the job complete in less time you've been worrying about
it - basically it means opening a small hole in the wall less than
a foot square so you can either unsolder the old one and solder in
the new one, or determine that it really is threaded and unscrew it.

The patch can be a new bit of drywall or you could put a wood panel
over the hole, painted to match, so you can get back in there should
the need arise. The need will arise.

1) accurately determine the inside location for the opening. Take
measurements from known points, ie window edges, etc.

2) if you are sweating the pipes in the wall, soak down the
wood well to start, have a large bucket of water and a fire
extinguisher standing by at the ready. Get a fire insulation
blanket (sold at HD for exactly this purpose, it's glass fiber)
or an old asbestos shingle to prevent the flame from playing on
woodwork. Keep a fire watch on the finished project for an hour
or so, just in case.

3) pressurize the line and check for leaks *before* you seal
up the wall. Sounds crazy but in the heat of the moment you
might just button-er-up before checking....

4) purchase the highest quality fixture you can find. Removable
seat a plus.

Jim

In closed walls I like to just cut the old part out and do the final
in-place re-assembly with "Just for copper" from JACO. It is a no-heat
copper joining solution that works every bit as well as solder, with
no fire hazzard. Might need to solder a fitting into the hydrant, then
join with JFC and a normal solder type union.

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