Last night I heard the death rattle from my beloved Ryobi 4 stroke
trimmer. After hundreds of hours of abuse it seems that a valve head
came off. The spark plug was smashed but intact, the piston not holed,
and the crank and connecting rod are all in good shape. Since it was
always run with the air cleaner on it seems that the only thing that
could cause the horrible rattle and compression loss is a valve coming
apart. The valve stems still go up and down so that makes it seem like
the only thing that could be rattling around inside the cylinder
smashing things is the valve head.
Looking on the web last night for a replacement I find that Ryobi no
longer sells a 4 stroke engine. But wait! Didn't MTD buy Ryobi? and
Troy Bilt? Yes! And now Troy Bilt makes a 4 stroke trimmer that looks
almost exactly like the Ryobi. And the parts that matter appear
exactly the same. So the split shaft that allows me to change from the
line trimmer head to the carbide blade head without turning off the
engine (Don't try this at home kids!) means I only need to buy the
string trimmer model and my old stuff will work with the new engine.
Cool. I'll post reports about the Troyobi when I buy it.
ERS

Eric R Snow wrote:
Last night I heard the death rattle from my beloved Ryobi 4 stroke
trimmer. After hundreds of hours of abuse it seems that a valve head
came off. The spark plug was smashed but intact, the piston not holed,
and the crank and connecting rod are all in good shape. Since it was
always run with the air cleaner on it seems that the only thing that
could cause the horrible rattle and compression loss is a valve coming
apart. The valve stems still go up and down so that makes it seem like
the only thing that could be rattling around inside the cylinder
smashing things is the valve head.
Looking on the web last night for a replacement I find that Ryobi no
longer sells a 4 stroke engine. But wait! Didn't MTD buy Ryobi? and
Troy Bilt? Yes! And now Troy Bilt makes a 4 stroke trimmer that looks
almost exactly like the Ryobi. And the parts that matter appear
exactly the same. So the split shaft that allows me to change from the
line trimmer head to the carbide blade head without turning off the
engine (Don't try this at home kids!) means I only need to buy the
string trimmer model and my old stuff will work with the new engine.
Cool. I'll post reports about the Troyobi when I buy it.
ERS

Eric! I'm surprised at you!
The ethic of the forums dictates - nay Commands! - that you disassemble
that engine, build the necessary parts (using superior metallurgy) on
your machine tools, TIG weld the damaged parts of the head, and return
that motor to it's former glory.
To toss it aside and buy a new one borders on sacrilege, and is an
insult to this group.

Glad you found a replacement

On Thu, 18 May 2006 09:54:41 -0500, Rex B
wrote:
Eric R Snow wrote:

Last night I heard the death rattle from my beloved Ryobi 4 stroke
trimmer.

Eric! I'm surprised at you!
The ethic of the forums dictates - nay Commands! - that you disassemble
that engine, build the necessary parts (using superior metallurgy) on
your machine tools, TIG weld the damaged parts of the head, and return
that motor to it's former glory.

To toss it aside and buy a new one borders on sacrilege, and is an
insult to this group.

;-) Well, at least he should take a crack at it - pull the head and
see what really happened, and see if pieces are available.

Glad you found a replacement

And then he'll have a hot spare, as well as a batch of fresh pieces
for the string trimmer head, they tend to wear out the string feeding
mechanisms.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

In article ,
Rex B wrote:

Eric R Snow wrote:
Last night I heard the death rattle from my beloved Ryobi 4 stroke
trimmer. After hundreds of hours of abuse it seems that a valve head
came off. The spark plug was smashed but intact, the piston not holed,
and the crank and connecting rod are all in good shape. Since it was
always run with the air cleaner on it seems that the only thing that
could cause the horrible rattle and compression loss is a valve coming
apart. The valve stems still go up and down so that makes it seem like
the only thing that could be rattling around inside the cylinder
smashing things is the valve head.
Looking on the web last night for a replacement I find that Ryobi no
longer sells a 4 stroke engine. But wait! Didn't MTD buy Ryobi? and
Troy Bilt? Yes! And now Troy Bilt makes a 4 stroke trimmer that looks
almost exactly like the Ryobi. And the parts that matter appear
exactly the same. So the split shaft that allows me to change from the
line trimmer head to the carbide blade head without turning off the
engine (Don't try this at home kids!) means I only need to buy the
string trimmer model and my old stuff will work with the new engine.
Cool. I'll post reports about the Troyobi when I buy it.
ERS

Eric! I'm surprised at you!
The ethic of the forums dictates - nay Commands! - that you disassemble
that engine, build the necessary parts (using superior metallurgy) on
your machine tools, TIG weld the damaged parts of the head, and return
that motor to it's former glory.
To toss it aside and buy a new one borders on sacrilege, and is an
insult to this group.

Yes, and what about the mandatory spending sufficient time doing so that
the cost equals at least 5X the price of the new Troyobi!?!

May the Spirit of Ignoramus (whatever number he's using these days) be
your guide, intelligence and perseverance in the face of convenience and
economy!

What _were_ you thinking?

Sheesh!


Glad you found a replacement

Ditto

--
Bring back, Oh bring back
Oh, bring back that old continuity.
Bring back, oh, bring back
Oh, bring back Clerk Maxwell to me.

On Thu, 18 May 2006 16:26:16 GMT, John Husvar
wrote:

In article ,
Rex B wrote:

Eric R Snow wrote:
Last night I heard the death rattle from my beloved Ryobi 4 stroke
trimmer. After hundreds of hours of abuse it seems that a valve head
came off. The spark plug was smashed but intact, the piston not holed,
and the crank and connecting rod are all in good shape. Since it was
always run with the air cleaner on it seems that the only thing that
could cause the horrible rattle and compression loss is a valve coming
apart. The valve stems still go up and down so that makes it seem like
the only thing that could be rattling around inside the cylinder
smashing things is the valve head.
Looking on the web last night for a replacement I find that Ryobi no
longer sells a 4 stroke engine. But wait! Didn't MTD buy Ryobi? and
Troy Bilt? Yes! And now Troy Bilt makes a 4 stroke trimmer that looks
almost exactly like the Ryobi. And the parts that matter appear
exactly the same. So the split shaft that allows me to change from the
line trimmer head to the carbide blade head without turning off the
engine (Don't try this at home kids!) means I only need to buy the
string trimmer model and my old stuff will work with the new engine.
Cool. I'll post reports about the Troyobi when I buy it.
ERS

Eric! I'm surprised at you!
The ethic of the forums dictates - nay Commands! - that you disassemble
that engine, build the necessary parts (using superior metallurgy) on
your machine tools, TIG weld the damaged parts of the head, and return
that motor to it's former glory.
To toss it aside and buy a new one borders on sacrilege, and is an
insult to this group.

Yes, and what about the mandatory spending sufficient time doing so that
the cost equals at least 5X the price of the new Troyobi!?!

May the Spirit of Ignoramus (whatever number he's using these days) be
your guide, intelligence and perseverance in the face of convenience and
economy!

What _were_ you thinking?

Sheesh!


Glad you found a replacement

Ditto
Oh, I took it apart alright. But the thing doesn't have a head. Or,
rather, the head and cylinder are cast as one piece. I broke at about
8:45 last night and I took it apart as far as I could with the tools
on hand. But you can be sure I'll eventually get the thing completely
apart and find out what did what.
ERS

On Thu, 18 May 2006 07:42:17 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:

Last night I heard the death rattle from my beloved Ryobi 4 stroke
trimmer. After hundreds of hours of abuse it seems that a valve head
came off. The spark plug was smashed but intact, the piston not holed,
and the crank and connecting rod are all in good shape. Since it was
always run with the air cleaner on it seems that the only thing that
could cause the horrible rattle and compression loss is a valve coming
apart. The valve stems still go up and down so that makes it seem like
the only thing that could be rattling around inside the cylinder
smashing things is the valve head.
Looking on the web last night for a replacement I find that Ryobi no
longer sells a 4 stroke engine. But wait! Didn't MTD buy Ryobi? and
Troy Bilt? Yes! And now Troy Bilt makes a 4 stroke trimmer that looks
almost exactly like the Ryobi. And the parts that matter appear
exactly the same. So the split shaft that allows me to change from the
line trimmer head to the carbide blade head without turning off the
engine (Don't try this at home kids!) means I only need to buy the
string trimmer model and my old stuff will work with the new engine.
Cool. I'll post reports about the Troyobi when I buy it.

That trimmer was made by MTD. MTD owned the Ryobi outdoor power
equipment name from 2000-2004. Then Ryobi decided that they wanted it
back. Thus MTD was forced to move that product line to another name
and so you get the Troybilt.

Now onto the parts problem. It's actually very simple. MTD still
supplies parts for the trimmers they made back then. If you'll go to
the web site below you'll find that they even have a parts breakdown
for your trimmer so you can get the part numbers you need and order
the parts from them or your nearest MTD distributor.

http://mtd.arinet.com/scripts/Empart...n%20&LoginPWD=

If that link doesn't work then go to MTD's home page, click on
"parts and accessories", and then "launch illustrated search engine".

http://www.mtdproducts.com/webapp/wc...rate/index.jsp

On Thu, 18 May 2006 20:38:00 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2006 07:42:17 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:

Last night I heard the death rattle from my beloved Ryobi 4 stroke
trimmer. After hundreds of hours of abuse it seems that a valve head
came off. The spark plug was smashed but intact, the piston not holed,
and the crank and connecting rod are all in good shape. Since it was
always run with the air cleaner on it seems that the only thing that
could cause the horrible rattle and compression loss is a valve coming
apart. The valve stems still go up and down so that makes it seem like
the only thing that could be rattling around inside the cylinder
smashing things is the valve head.
Looking on the web last night for a replacement I find that Ryobi no
longer sells a 4 stroke engine. But wait! Didn't MTD buy Ryobi? and
Troy Bilt? Yes! And now Troy Bilt makes a 4 stroke trimmer that looks
almost exactly like the Ryobi. And the parts that matter appear
exactly the same. So the split shaft that allows me to change from the
line trimmer head to the carbide blade head without turning off the
engine (Don't try this at home kids!) means I only need to buy the
string trimmer model and my old stuff will work with the new engine.
Cool. I'll post reports about the Troyobi when I buy it.

That trimmer was made by MTD. MTD owned the Ryobi outdoor power
equipment name from 2000-2004. Then Ryobi decided that they wanted it
back. Thus MTD was forced to move that product line to another name
and so you get the Troybilt.

Now onto the parts problem. It's actually very simple. MTD still
supplies parts for the trimmers they made back then. If you'll go to
the web site below you'll find that they even have a parts breakdown
for your trimmer so you can get the part numbers you need and order
the parts from them or your nearest MTD distributor.

http://mtd.arinet.com/scripts/Empart...n%20&LoginPWD=

If that link doesn't work then go to MTD's home page, click on
"parts and accessories", and then "launch illustrated search engine".

http://www.mtdproducts.com/webapp/wc...rate/index.jsp
Last night I managed to knock loose the part inside my engine. It was
the valve head as I thought. This morning I bought the 29 cc 4 stroke
Troy-Bilt trimmer because it was the only one available with the split
straight shaft. Only Lowes sells 'em around here and they don't carry
all the models on the Trot-Bilt web site. But I did look at the 26 cc
engine while I was there and it is the same as my old Ryobi 26 cc. So,
if I can get the engine apart without damage, and if the cylinder
walls, valve seat, and piston are OK, I'll try to order a new valve
and see if I can get the engine to work again.
ERS

On Fri, 19 May 2006 10:31:05 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2006 20:38:00 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2006 07:42:17 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:

Last night I heard the death rattle from my beloved Ryobi 4 stroke
trimmer. After hundreds of hours of abuse it seems that a valve head
came off. The spark plug was smashed but intact, the piston not holed,
and the crank and connecting rod are all in good shape. Since it was
always run with the air cleaner on it seems that the only thing that
could cause the horrible rattle and compression loss is a valve coming
apart. The valve stems still go up and down so that makes it seem like
the only thing that could be rattling around inside the cylinder
smashing things is the valve head.
Looking on the web last night for a replacement I find that Ryobi no
longer sells a 4 stroke engine. But wait! Didn't MTD buy Ryobi? and
Troy Bilt? Yes! And now Troy Bilt makes a 4 stroke trimmer that looks
almost exactly like the Ryobi. And the parts that matter appear
exactly the same. So the split shaft that allows me to change from the
line trimmer head to the carbide blade head without turning off the
engine (Don't try this at home kids!) means I only need to buy the
string trimmer model and my old stuff will work with the new engine.
Cool. I'll post reports about the Troyobi when I buy it.

That trimmer was made by MTD. MTD owned the Ryobi outdoor power
equipment name from 2000-2004. Then Ryobi decided that they wanted it
back. Thus MTD was forced to move that product line to another name
and so you get the Troybilt.

Now onto the parts problem. It's actually very simple. MTD still
supplies parts for the trimmers they made back then. If you'll go to
the web site below you'll find that they even have a parts breakdown
for your trimmer so you can get the part numbers you need and order
the parts from them or your nearest MTD distributor.

http://mtd.arinet.com/scripts/Empart...n%20&LoginPWD=

If that link doesn't work then go to MTD's home page, click on
"parts and accessories", and then "launch illustrated search engine".

http://www.mtdproducts.com/webapp/wc...rate/index.jsp
Last night I managed to knock loose the part inside my engine. It was
the valve head as I thought. This morning I bought the 29 cc 4 stroke
Troy-Bilt trimmer because it was the only one available with the split
straight shaft. Only Lowes sells 'em around here and they don't carry
all the models on the Trot-Bilt web site. But I did look at the 26 cc
engine while I was there and it is the same as my old Ryobi 26 cc. So,
if I can get the engine apart without damage, and if the cylinder
walls, valve seat, and piston are OK, I'll try to order a new valve
and see if I can get the engine to work again.
ERS

Ok. Good luck.

On Thu, 18 May 2006 20:38:00 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2006 07:42:17 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:

Last night I heard the death rattle from my beloved Ryobi 4 stroke
trimmer. After hundreds of hours of abuse it seems that a valve head
came off. The spark plug was smashed but intact, the piston not holed,
and the crank and connecting rod are all in good shape. Since it was
always run with the air cleaner on it seems that the only thing that
could cause the horrible rattle and compression loss is a valve coming
apart. The valve stems still go up and down so that makes it seem like
the only thing that could be rattling around inside the cylinder
smashing things is the valve head.
Looking on the web last night for a replacement I find that Ryobi no
longer sells a 4 stroke engine. But wait! Didn't MTD buy Ryobi? and
Troy Bilt? Yes! And now Troy Bilt makes a 4 stroke trimmer that looks
almost exactly like the Ryobi. And the parts that matter appear
exactly the same. So the split shaft that allows me to change from the
line trimmer head to the carbide blade head without turning off the
engine (Don't try this at home kids!) means I only need to buy the
string trimmer model and my old stuff will work with the new engine.
Cool. I'll post reports about the Troyobi when I buy it.

That trimmer was made by MTD. MTD owned the Ryobi outdoor power
equipment name from 2000-2004. Then Ryobi decided that they wanted it
back. Thus MTD was forced to move that product line to another name
and so you get the Troybilt.

Now onto the parts problem. It's actually very simple. MTD still
supplies parts for the trimmers they made back then. If you'll go to
the web site below you'll find that they even have a parts breakdown
for your trimmer so you can get the part numbers you need and order
the parts from them or your nearest MTD distributor.

http://mtd.arinet.com/scripts/Empart...n%20&LoginPWD=

If that link doesn't work then go to MTD's home page, click on
"parts and accessories", and then "launch illustrated search engine".

http://www.mtdproducts.com/webapp/wc...rate/index.jsp


Btw..they are made in Chandler/Mesa Arizona.

Want the number for the plant supervisor or Sr. Engineer, so you can
bitch about the early failure? G


Gunner, vendor to MTD


"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

On Sat, 20 May 2006 17:02:33 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2006 20:38:00 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2006 07:42:17 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:

Last night I heard the death rattle from my beloved Ryobi 4 stroke
trimmer. After hundreds of hours of abuse it seems that a valve head
came off. The spark plug was smashed but intact, the piston not holed,
and the crank and connecting rod are all in good shape. Since it was
always run with the air cleaner on it seems that the only thing that
could cause the horrible rattle and compression loss is a valve coming
apart. The valve stems still go up and down so that makes it seem like
the only thing that could be rattling around inside the cylinder
smashing things is the valve head.
Looking on the web last night for a replacement I find that Ryobi no
longer sells a 4 stroke engine. But wait! Didn't MTD buy Ryobi? and
Troy Bilt? Yes! And now Troy Bilt makes a 4 stroke trimmer that looks
almost exactly like the Ryobi. And the parts that matter appear
exactly the same. So the split shaft that allows me to change from the
line trimmer head to the carbide blade head without turning off the
engine (Don't try this at home kids!) means I only need to buy the
string trimmer model and my old stuff will work with the new engine.
Cool. I'll post reports about the Troyobi when I buy it.

That trimmer was made by MTD. MTD owned the Ryobi outdoor power
equipment name from 2000-2004. Then Ryobi decided that they wanted it
back. Thus MTD was forced to move that product line to another name
and so you get the Troybilt.

Now onto the parts problem. It's actually very simple. MTD still
supplies parts for the trimmers they made back then. If you'll go to
the web site below you'll find that they even have a parts breakdown
for your trimmer so you can get the part numbers you need and order
the parts from them or your nearest MTD distributor.

http://mtd.arinet.com/scripts/Empart...n%20&LoginPWD=

If that link doesn't work then go to MTD's home page, click on
"parts and accessories", and then "launch illustrated search engine".

http://www.mtdproducts.com/webapp/wc...rate/index.jsp


Btw..they are made in Chandler/Mesa Arizona.

Want the number for the plant supervisor or Sr. Engineer, so you can
bitch about the early failure? G

Yeah Gunner, I do. I don't think the valve head shoulda dropped off. I
took good care of that trimmer. But even more of a bitch is when I
went to buy a new one. The Troy-Bilt web site lists Lowe's as the only
retailer. I did find other sources but they were all mail order. On
top of that, Lowe's doesn't carry all the models listed. I wanted to
get an exact replacement but the trimmers with the 26 cc motor at
Lowe's didn't come with the two part shaft. The web site shows one
though. So I bought the 29 cc model. It may have a little more power,
but not 30 bucks more. And finally, the Troy-Bilt web site says to
call the retailer for more info about the trimmers. There is no number
given to speak to a Troy-Bilt employee. I did try calling Lowe's for
info. Three times. And each time I got their "expert". None of these
guys knew jack about the 4 stroke trimmers. One even contradicted the
web site info. And the web site info was correct. Still, I bought
another one of the things because they seem to be the only 4-stroke
trimmers available that burn straight gas. Stihl makes a 4 stroke
trimmer but it uses 50:1 gasil mix. I guess this is to avoid oil in
the crankcase. But if you gotta mix gas and oil why not just get a 2
stroke? The 4 stroke does get better mileage but it's not like a weed
trimmer is gonna burn much gas.
ERS
Gunner, vendor to MTD


"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

On Sat, 20 May 2006 17:02:33 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

If that link doesn't work then go to MTD's home page, click on
"parts and accessories", and then "launch illustrated search engine".

http://www.mtdproducts.com/webapp/wc...rate/index.jsp


Btw..they are made in Chandler/Mesa Arizona.

Want the number for the plant supervisor or Sr. Engineer, so you can
bitch about the early failure? G

Bolens, Yard Machine, Cub Cadet, Troy-Built, and McCulloch products
are all THAT good, eh?


Gunner, vendor to MTD

Can you tell us what you vend to them?


--
Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
---- --Unknown

On Sat, 20 May 2006 14:29:27 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:



Btw..they are made in Chandler/Mesa Arizona.

Want the number for the plant supervisor or Sr. Engineer, so you can
bitch about the early failure? G

Yeah Gunner, I do. I don't think the valve head shoulda dropped off. I
took good care of that trimmer. But even more of a bitch is when I
went to buy a new one. The Troy-Bilt web site lists Lowe's as the only
retailer. I did find other sources but they were all mail order. On
top of that, Lowe's doesn't carry all the models listed. I wanted to
get an exact replacement but the trimmers with the 26 cc motor at
Lowe's didn't come with the two part shaft. The web site shows one
though. So I bought the 29 cc model. It may have a little more power,
but not 30 bucks more. And finally, the Troy-Bilt web site says to
call the retailer for more info about the trimmers. There is no number
given to speak to a Troy-Bilt employee. I did try calling Lowe's for
info. Three times. And each time I got their "expert". None of these
guys knew jack about the 4 stroke trimmers. One even contradicted the
web site info. And the web site info was correct. Still, I bought
another one of the things because they seem to be the only 4-stroke
trimmers available that burn straight gas. Stihl makes a 4 stroke
trimmer but it uses 50:1 gasil mix. I guess this is to avoid oil in
the crankcase. But if you gotta mix gas and oil why not just get a 2
stroke? The 4 stroke does get better mileage but it's not like a weed
trimmer is gonna burn much gas.
ERS

Contact info emailed.

2 stroke engines are now illegal in California. We cannot buy most of
the recons from Harbor Freight either. 4 stroke or some selected
grandfathered in units. Check the HF online ads..not for sale in
California..etc etc etc.

Everything is grandfathered, but no new sales of 2 strokes in the
Golden State.

Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

On Sat, 20 May 2006 14:32:45 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 20 May 2006 17:02:33 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

If that link doesn't work then go to MTD's home page, click on
"parts and accessories", and then "launch illustrated search engine".

http://www.mtdproducts.com/webapp/wc...rate/index.jsp


Btw..they are made in Chandler/Mesa Arizona.

Want the number for the plant supervisor or Sr. Engineer, so you can
bitch about the early failure? G

Bolens, Yard Machine, Cub Cadet, Troy-Built, and McCulloch products
are all THAT good, eh?


Gunner, vendor to MTD

Can you tell us what you vend to them?

Sure. Most of the pistons used in their engines are made from
castings, on OmniTurn CNC lathes.

Rather fascinating problems at first. The only way to hold the
piston casting..was from the inside..so needed an expanding collet
formed to fit the inside of the piston. Only problem was..3 out of 6
pistons would move during the operation Sometimes much..sometimes only
a smidge.. It was discovered that they have 6 die cast moulds..and 3
of them were out of spec enough that the custom expander would not
hold them rigidly. So I developed a way to hold even the loose ones.
Cant tell you about that..but it works. I had to sign a NDS.

The pistons come in, are held in the collet, and spun. The top is
domed slightly, the sides are turned, and the ring grooves are cut.
Then a drill motor comes in..and the C axis spindle turns the piston
and drills the wrist pin hole on one side, then spins 180', drills the
other hole, then a reamer comes in and reams the two holes seperately.
Test is when a gage pin with .0001 clearance is dropped into one
hole..it has to fall all the way through.

Not easy to do if the piston moved on the collet even a **** hair.
And of course all the other dimensions have to be within a certain
tolernce..surprisingly close for something of this nature.
Perpendicularity, parallelism, roundness, etc etc

Being aluminum..the piston cannot be held too loose by the internal
gripper, or it comes loose or moves, and cannot be expanded too much,
as the piston comes out 3 sided. A fine balance, complicated by the
die casting size issues. Took a while to quantify the problem and
then try various fixes.

Needless to say..they make good parts now. And coolant temperatures
both winter and summer made a fair amount of difference also..it being
in Aridzona next to Phoenix

Gunner



--
Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
---- --Unknown

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

On Sat, 20 May 2006 14:32:45 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 20 May 2006 17:02:33 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

If that link doesn't work then go to MTD's home page, click on
"parts and accessories", and then "launch illustrated search engine".

http://www.mtdproducts.com/webapp/wc...rate/index.jsp


Btw..they are made in Chandler/Mesa Arizona.

Want the number for the plant supervisor or Sr. Engineer, so you can
bitch about the early failure? G

Bolens, Yard Machine, Cub Cadet, Troy-Built, and McCulloch products
are all THAT good, eh?

Actually McCulloch isn't made by MTD. They just source the parts for
the overseas manufacturer who bought the rights to the name. When that
manufacturer first started selling them they said they didn't need a
parts source. Then when they got everyone mad do to no parts
availability they made a agreement with MTD to be there parts supplier
for the US so that maybe someone would by there saws.

On Sat, 20 May 2006 22:32:06 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

On Sat, 20 May 2006 14:32:45 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 20 May 2006 17:02:33 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

If that link doesn't work then go to MTD's home page, click on
"parts and accessories", and then "launch illustrated search engine".

http://www.mtdproducts.com/webapp/wc...rate/index.jsp


Btw..they are made in Chandler/Mesa Arizona.

Want the number for the plant supervisor or Sr. Engineer, so you can
bitch about the early failure? G

Bolens, Yard Machine, Cub Cadet, Troy-Built, and McCulloch products
are all THAT good, eh?

No comment on that one?



Gunner, vendor to MTD

Can you tell us what you vend to them?

Sure. Most of the pistons used in their engines are made from
castings, on OmniTurn CNC lathes.

Rather fascinating problems at first. The only way to hold the
piston casting..was from the inside..so needed an expanding collet
formed to fit the inside of the piston. Only problem was..3 out of 6
pistons would move during the operation Sometimes much..sometimes only
a smidge.. It was discovered that they have 6 die cast moulds..and 3
of them were out of spec enough that the custom expander would not
hold them rigidly. So I developed a way to hold even the loose ones.
Cant tell you about that..but it works. I had to sign a NDS.

Yeah, and it's best not to say anything anyway. I was going to say it
probably had something to do with indexing on the piston wrist pin
holes, but those came later.


The pistons come in, are held in the collet, and spun. The top is
domed slightly, the sides are turned, and the ring grooves are cut.
Then a drill motor comes in..and the C axis spindle turns the piston
and drills the wrist pin hole on one side, then spins 180', drills the
other hole, then a reamer comes in and reams the two holes seperately.
Test is when a gage pin with .0001 clearance is dropped into one
hole..it has to fall all the way through.



Not easy to do if the piston moved on the collet even a **** hair.
And of course all the other dimensions have to be within a certain
tolernce..surprisingly close for something of this nature.
Perpendicularity, parallelism, roundness, etc etc

Yes, and all of those have to matter when these things have an
operating range of 1,000+ degrees or so. [Gawd, I've been out of the
business so long (20+ yrs) I've forgotten all the relevant data...]


Being aluminum..the piston cannot be held too loose by the internal
gripper, or it comes loose or moves, and cannot be expanded too much,
as the piston comes out 3 sided. A fine balance, complicated by the
die casting size issues. Took a while to quantify the problem and
then try various fixes.

Cool.


Needless to say..they make good parts now. And coolant temperatures
both winter and summer made a fair amount of difference also..it being
in Aridzona next to Phoenix

BTDT and was installing A/C units on extremely hot engines in new
trucks for a dealer one summer. Suckage Factor: 100% I moved back to
LoCal right after that.

--
Put some color in your cheeks: Garden Naked!
------
www.diversify.com Colorful Website Development

On Sat, 20 May 2006 17:58:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 20 May 2006 18:09:37 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Wayne Cook quickly quoth:

On Sat, 20 May 2006 14:32:45 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 20 May 2006 17:02:33 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

If that link doesn't work then go to MTD's home page, click on
"parts and accessories", and then "launch illustrated search engine".

http://www.mtdproducts.com/webapp/wc...rate/index.jsp


Btw..they are made in Chandler/Mesa Arizona.

Want the number for the plant supervisor or Sr. Engineer, so you can
bitch about the early failure? G

Bolens, Yard Machine, Cub Cadet, Troy-Built, and McCulloch products
are all THAT good, eh?

Actually McCulloch isn't made by MTD. They just source the parts for
the overseas manufacturer who bought the rights to the name. When that
manufacturer first started selling them they said they didn't need a
parts source. Then when they got everyone mad do to no parts
availability they made a agreement with MTD to be there parts supplier
for the US so that maybe someone would by there saws.

OK. So how does that affect their reliability (or lack thereof),
which was the main thread here?

Well personally I wouldn't have one (or any of the other low end
chain saws) even if I can get parts for it now days.

On Sat, 20 May 2006 21:24:27 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Wayne Cook quickly quoth:

Actually McCulloch isn't made by MTD. They just source the parts for
the overseas manufacturer who bought the rights to the name. When that
manufacturer first started selling them they said they didn't need a
parts source. Then when they got everyone mad do to no parts
availability they made a agreement with MTD to be there parts supplier
for the US so that maybe someone would by there saws.

OK. So how does that affect their reliability (or lack thereof),
which was the main thread here?

Well personally I wouldn't have one (or any of the other low end
chain saws) even if I can get parts for it now days.

I have a little 14" McC electric which has served me well (and
infrequently) for a decade or so now, so I'm not too down on them.

--
Put some color in your cheeks: Garden Naked!
------
www.diversify.com Colorful Website Development

The last of the good macs went out in the early 60's when they used to
be a popular engine on go karts......until west nbend came out with
their super bee's and whipped their yellow asses.........Mac in
regards to saws were always heavy and a pain to work on as compaarted
to others.....
I tend to view macs as the 5.7 general motors diesel engine. Some
worked fine, others never worked at all and over all it was basically
junk waiting for a sucker to buy pricewise.....


..On Sat, 20 May 2006 19:30:15 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sat, 20 May 2006 21:24:27 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Wayne Cook quickly quoth:

Actually McCulloch isn't made by MTD. They just source the parts for
the overseas manufacturer who bought the rights to the name. When that
manufacturer first started selling them they said they didn't need a
parts source. Then when they got everyone mad do to no parts
availability they made a agreement with MTD to be there parts supplier
for the US so that maybe someone would by there saws.

OK. So how does that affect their reliability (or lack thereof),
which was the main thread here?

Well personally I wouldn't have one (or any of the other low end
chain saws) even if I can get parts for it now days.

I have a little 14" McC electric which has served me well (and
infrequently) for a decade or so now, so I'm not too down on them.

On Sun, 21 May 2006 02:53:39 GMT, (~Roy) wrote:


I tend to view macs as the 5.7 general motors diesel engine. Some
worked fine, others never worked at all and over all it was basically
junk waiting for a sucker to buy pricewise.....

Maybe the consumer grade stuff, but the original Pro Macs have a solid
reputation among woodsmen. One model featured a 125cc engine.

-Carl

I just bought a 2 stroke weed trimmer a week ago. All the usual outlets
have mass quantities of them. Neighbor kid just bought a 2 stroke MX
bike for the season.
Other neighbor bought a pair of personal watercraft with monster Rotax 2
strokes in them.
All in San Diego. I think we are still part of CA.

On Sun, 21 May 2006 09:17:09 -0700, (daniel
peterman) wrote:

I just bought a 2 stroke weed trimmer a week ago. All the usual outlets
have mass quantities of them. Neighbor kid just bought a 2 stroke MX
bike for the season.
Other neighbor bought a pair of personal watercraft with monster Rotax 2
strokes in them.
All in San Diego. I think we are still part of CA.


"only direct fuel injection two-cycle engines and engines that meet
EPA's 2006 standards or the California Air Resources Board's 2001
standards will be permitted."

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=51584

"Cannot be sold in California."

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=55008

"Not for sale in California."

Etc etc etc


If it uses premix..I understand its a no no as its unlikely to meet
Californias 2001 emmsions standards.
And many lakes have forbidden all 2 cycle outboards or inboards of
any type.

http://ag.ca.gov/newsalerts/release.php?id=487

http://www.mhi.co.jp/tech/pdf/e383/p151.pdf

Gunner


"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

On Mon, 22 May 2006 00:00:24 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

And many lakes have forbidden all 2 cycle outboards or inboards of
any type.


Which might not be such a bad idea- the oil slick a lot of outboards
leave behind can't be good for wildlife- one of my outboards left an
oil trail like a leaking tanker. The Ontario Provincial Parks some
years ago banned all marine engines from areas were ducks and bass
nested because the populations were nosediving- seems there was enough
oil to kill off insect life, breaking the food chain. As an avid bass
fisherman, I was all for it.

-Carl