On Tue, 16 May 2006 23:57:46 +1000, Mastic not@thisaddress wrote:

Hi All
I have a home gas central heating unit mounted on the outside
wall of my garage and blowing/sucking through a couple of grills in
the garage wall. Nice, it has worked well for the last 10 years to
heat the 10,000 square foot garage.
Sadly it recently died and tried to cremate itself but only succeeded
in burning some of the wiring.
No problem I thought, I just replace the cremated wires clean the
burner and away it goes again.
Wrong!
To cut a long story short I have no 24V to run the solenoid on the gas
modulating valve, chasing the wires back there is a transformer and
some printed circuit boards so I think the burnt wires shorted and
fried the solid state thingo.
Problem is it's old heater, no parts or etc available for it.
So I need a generic wiring diagram if anybody know where one can be
got off the web.
Is the 24V AC or DC? The gas modulating valve has several electrical
terminals on it but I think it only needs the wires to the actual
solenoid, am I right?
Thanks in Advance

David


Am I missing something here? 10,000 square foot with a couple of grills.
That's big enough to have its own microclimate!

Mark Rand (and his 1400 sq foot, over two floors house :-)
RTFM

On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:41:20 +1000, Mastic not@thisaddress wrote:

Agh, sorry. Many an error between finger and keyboard and that should
read 1000 square foot garage.
I cant resist a garage boast, four cars wide, fully lined and
insulated, something over 30 fluro lights and genuine 440V three phase
mains power.

Waitaminit - who at the power utility did you have to threaten with
blackmail pictures of the mistress and motel to get three phase?!

While writing I must say thanks for in input from everyone and I think
I will be able to design a new circuit for it and do away with the
original printed circuits. It was asked what make of heater it is but
it wont help you because I am not American and it's not American made
but they are all similar and as has been noted all use similar
components.

Wait just a.... {Show All Headers} Hmmmm. {tracert 220.239.223.16}

Oh. Optusnet.com.au - An Ozzie, well why didn't you say so? If you
don't say anything to the contrary, we assume way too much here.

(And the accent doesn't come through in typing very well, unless you
let slip with a colour or tyre.)

Okay, modify that - they're all made with pretty much the same
mass-produced control components, but now you have multiple continents
where the appliance parts could have originated from.

Now instead of a short stack of parts catalogs, you need a much
taller one.

Sure I could replace it but I get a buzz out of reparing things.

Though you still have to identify the point at which you're spending
$1000 worth of materials and effort to fix something old that broke,
where $100 buys you a brand new one.

You save that level of effort for when you can't go get a new one.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

The components may be similar, but be sure to use metric capacitors
and resistors if you're out of the U.S.

Mastic wrote:

While writing I must say thanks for in input from everyone and I think
I will be able to design a new circuit for it and do away with the
original printed circuits. It was asked what make of heater it is but
it wont help you because I am not American and it's not American made
but they are all similar and as has been noted all use similar
components. Sure I could replace it but I get a buzz out of reparing
things.

David

On Wed, 17 May 2006 09:54:33 -0500, Mike Berger wrote:
The components may be similar, but be sure to use metric capacitors
and resistors if you're out of the U.S.

Pull the other leg, Mike, it plays "Jingle Bells".

In article , Bruce L.
Bergman wrote:

On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:41:20 +1000, Mastic not@thisaddress wrote:

Agh, sorry. Many an error between finger and keyboard and that should
read 1000 square foot garage.
I cant resist a garage boast, four cars wide, fully lined and
insulated, something over 30 fluro lights and genuine 440V three phase
mains power.

Waitaminit - who at the power utility did you have to threaten with
blackmail pictures of the mistress and motel to get three phase?!

Piece of cake, I had it run into my 3.5 acre place for a few grand, my
contrib to the transformer out on the road. 90 amps per phase. Oh yeah,
I'm in Australia too.

You guys are sooooo backward when it comes to power provision :-)

PDW

On Thu, 18 May 2006 05:21:58 +0100, Peter Wiley
wrote:
snip
You guys are sooooo backward when it comes to power provision :-)
snip
You may well be right.

Given the increasing use of electrical power, for example air
conditioning, it would appear that it would be cost effective to
begin to run 3phase power to the new houses/apartments. Any
thoughts on this from the group, and as long as we are talking,
how about high-cycle power [600 v. 60 hz.] such as used on
aircraft? I can't believe how small and efficient those motors
are. Shouldn't be that hard to get from 60 to 600 hz. with an
adaptation of the VFD.


Unka George
(George McDuffee)

There is something to be said for government by a great aristocracy
which has furnished leaders to the nation in peace and war for generations;
even a democrat like myself must admit this.

But there is absolutely nothing to be said for government by a plutocracy,
for government by men very powerful in certain lines and gifted with the "money touch,"
but with ideals which in their essence are merely those of so many glorified pawnbrokers.

Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919), U.S. Republican (later Progressive) politician, president. Letter, 15 Nov. 1913.

"Mastic" not@thisaddress wrote in message
...
Mike Berger wrote:

The components may be similar, but be sure to use metric capacitors
and resistors if you're out of the U.S.

What capacity capacitors, how many litres?

Even if you know their metric 'capacity', you still have to get those
special 50Hz capacitors and resistors for Euro work.

LLoyd

On Thu, 18 May 2006 07:20:14 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2006 05:21:58 +0100, Peter Wiley
wrote:
snip
You guys are sooooo backward when it comes to power provision :-)
snip
You may well be right.

Given the increasing use of electrical power, for example air
conditioning, it would appear that it would be cost effective to
begin to run 3phase power to the new houses/apartments.

Well, they often run it to the complex, but the residents only get
two of the three legs at 120/208V. The only load that gets all three
legs is the House Panel that has the elevator(s) connected - and in
many buildings they have a single-phase feed for the residents and a
separate transformer bank and feeders for the three-phase.

It would make a lot more sense, but then again there's the inertia
of "that's how we always do it" to overcome. Unless you can claim
industrial uses like a large well pump on agricultural property, it is
not always available - each local utility is different.

Any
thoughts on this from the group, and as long as we are talking,
how about high-cycle power [600 v. 60 hz.] such as used on
aircraft? I can't believe how small and efficient those motors
are. Shouldn't be that hard to get from 60 to 600 hz. with an
adaptation of the VFD.

Forget about high-cycle - it is much less efficient at transmitting
power than 60 Hz and a pain to work with. The only reason they use it
on airplanes is that the motors transformers and wiring are smaller
and lighter, and weight is more critical than overall efficiency on an
airplane.

That, and aircraft use 400 Hertz.

-- Bruce --

On Thu, 18 May 2006 14:01:44 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
wrote:


"Mastic" not@thisaddress wrote in message
.. .
Mike Berger wrote:

The components may be similar, but be sure to use metric capacitors
and resistors if you're out of the U.S.

What capacity capacitors, how many litres?

Even if you know their metric 'capacity', you still have to get those
special 50Hz capacitors and resistors for Euro work.

LLoyd


Does Japan still run 60Hz on some islands and 50Hz on the others?

Expiring minds want to know.


Mark Rand
RTFM

Mark Rand wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2006 14:01:44 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
wrote:


"Mastic" not@thisaddress wrote in message
. ..

Mike Berger wrote:


The components may be similar, but be sure to use metric capacitors
and resistors if you're out of the U.S.

What capacity capacitors, how many litres?

Even if you know their metric 'capacity', you still have to get those
special 50Hz capacitors and resistors for Euro work.

LLoyd



Does Japan still run 60Hz on some islands and 50Hz on the others?

Yes.

In article , Mastic
not@thisaddress wrote:

Peter Wiley wrote:

In article , Bruce L.
Bergman wrote:

On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:41:20 +1000, Mastic not@thisaddress wrote:

Agh, sorry. Many an error between finger and keyboard and that should
read 1000 square foot garage.
I cant resist a garage boast, four cars wide, fully lined and
insulated, something over 30 fluro lights and genuine 440V three phase
mains power.

Waitaminit - who at the power utility did you have to threaten with
blackmail pictures of the mistress and motel to get three phase?!

Piece of cake, I had it run into my 3.5 acre place for a few grand, my
contrib to the transformer out on the road. 90 amps per phase. Oh yeah,
I'm in Australia too.

You guys are sooooo backward when it comes to power provision :-)

True but I would have been far more diplomatic about saying it.

I've been on this n/g for over 10 years, I don't need to be diplomatic
:-)

PDW

In article ,
Mastic not@thisaddress wrote:

Okay I find the transformer has a open primary circuit. The problem is
that it has no markings on it for the output voltages, okay I know
it's 24V for the solenoid but it also supplies the printed circuit
boards and I dont know what voltage they use.
Any ideas?

If the transformer has multiple secondaries, the voltage of one being
known, remove transformer from circuit and feed the known secondary the
known voltage, and measure the voltages across the other secondaries.

Be aware that to generate 24 volts DC by a fullwave rectifier and a
filter capacitor, one uses 18 volts rms AC, not 24.

Joe Gwinn

Lets see.

Hum - my power line is 2 phase with overhead ground. Lines are 500' or thereabouts.

(two phase - 2 of 3 phases - inverted V for 3 phase transformers... this is farm/ranch area)

The shop has a transformer for itself - underground fed to the shop - nice big circuit box.
The house is about 400' down the line (shop at 300) with its own transformer.
Then at the end of the line - at the 500' - two more transformers tapped on each line
and a heavy termination ground. - Transmission line theory.

I explained it to my area Electric company Tech. He wondered of the wasted transformers.
They absorb line transients that run up and down the highway.
My HV taps the highway lines and brings in the run. The spikes transmit to the end of the
line that is terminated - where most of the spike is absorbed.

If the transformers were not there - it would reflect off the end and slam into the highway.
Ring, Ring... Remember the blackout - not enough balancing going on...

Being tapped on mid sections - is the best place. Being on the end is the worst.
Some of us don't have an option. But if you can put in 1 more pole and maybe 50' of wire
to it - a short extension - it can go in any direction - then get the power company to
hang two under power (normally junk) transformers on the pole - you have protection.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member
http://lufkinced.com/



Peter Wiley wrote:
In article , Bruce L.
Bergman wrote:


On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:41:20 +1000, Mastic not@thisaddress wrote:


Agh, sorry. Many an error between finger and keyboard and that should
read 1000 square foot garage.
I cant resist a garage boast, four cars wide, fully lined and
insulated, something over 30 fluro lights and genuine 440V three phase
mains power.

Waitaminit - who at the power utility did you have to threaten with
blackmail pictures of the mistress and motel to get three phase?!


Piece of cake, I had it run into my 3.5 acre place for a few grand, my
contrib to the transformer out on the road. 90 amps per phase. Oh yeah,
I'm in Australia too.

You guys are sooooo backward when it comes to power provision :-)

PDW

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