Hi group!

I'm restoring a vintage Triumph motorcycle and discovered that the
alloy cylinder block (Wellworthy, I believe) is cracked, near the
exhaust ports, through the sleeve and cylinder block.

Replacement sleevers are no longer available from Wellworthy and I
would like to make new ones to press in after welding the cylinder
block. My question is: where would I find suitable cast iron pipe for
making the sleeves? I have access to a lathe and milling machine, as
well as welding capability.

The intent is to restore this machine but not as a daily rider. That
said, I would rather do the job correctly.

Thanks,
Norman C

On 15 Apr 2006 11:34:18 -0700, "nortonfan" wrote:

Hi group!

I'm restoring a vintage Triumph motorcycle and discovered that the
alloy cylinder block (Wellworthy, I believe) is cracked, near the
exhaust ports, through the sleeve and cylinder block.

Replacement sleevers are no longer available from Wellworthy and I
would like to make new ones to press in after welding the cylinder
block. My question is: where would I find suitable cast iron pipe for
making the sleeves? I have access to a lathe and milling machine, as
well as welding capability.

The intent is to restore this machine but not as a daily rider. That
said, I would rather do the job correctly.

Thanks,
Norman C


Norman.

Clevite among others make "tincan" dry sleeves, most any auto
machine shop would be a source as would a decent supply house.
ie NAPA ect. Welding cracked cast iron engine blocks is somewhat of
a black science to my understanding. But some of the new type
of rods look promising, I have no experience or connection with
http://www.muggyweld.com/index2.html for example

years ago in another life I witnessed cracked webs on heavy duty
diesel blocks successfully welded. They always came back without
any warrantee and sometimes were known to crack/leak later.

ED

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There's a guy near me that has forgetton more about this sort of work than
the rest of us will ever know. I had him do a ford tractor with this exact
same problem. He found a cast iron sleeve that he could machine to fit and
did the welding on the block.

If you don't mind shipping the block accross country (Minnesota), I'd
suggest him. Otherwise, I suggest you find another fellow like him. This
sort a repair is not for a novice.

Karl

Thanks, Karl.

Perhaps, I did not make it clear enough that what I am dealing with is
a twin cylinder, cast aluminum block, which has cast iron sleeves
pressed in. Once the defective sleeves are pressed out, I'm not
attempting to weld anything but the cracks in the aluminum cylinder
block, after which new cast iron sleeves will be pressed in, finished
to final bore and honed to match the new pistons. These procedures are
clearly outlined, in detail, in several books on the subject, namely:
"Tuning for Speed" by P.E. Irving and "Modern Motorcycle Mechanics" by
J.B. Nicholson, among others, and not beyond my range. There are
several vendors who would perform the resleeving for me, but I don't
have enough equity in my home for a large enough loan to cover their
fees.

My question is more in regard to a source for the materials: cast iron
pipe, of the approximate wall thickness/diameter for this type of
application. Roughly, say, 2.5" bore and 3.00" outside diameter. It
would be preferable to find the type of cast iron with the correct
characteristics, as well.
Thanks again,
Norman C.

Ed,

I shall follow your suggestions and check with Clevite, for sleeves.
It had not occured to me! The weld I would undertake would be in the
aluminum cylinder block, after the defective sleeves have been pressed
put.

Cheers,
Norman C.

On 15 Apr 2006 14:56:45 -0700, "nortonfan" wrote:

Ed,

I shall follow your suggestions and check with Clevite, for sleeves.
It had not occured to me! The weld I would undertake would be in the
aluminum cylinder block, after the defective sleeves have been pressed
put.

Cheers,
Norman C.

I rode a '73 Tiger for many years, pretty good bike. 73 was the
first year Triumph did it right IMO. Tell us more about yours..
ED

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On 15 Apr 2006 14:52:10 -0700, "nortonfan" wrote:

Thanks, Karl.

Perhaps, I did not make it clear enough that what I am dealing with is
a twin cylinder, cast aluminum block, which has cast iron sleeves
pressed in. Once the defective sleeves are pressed out, I'm not
attempting to weld anything but the cracks in the aluminum cylinder
block, after which new cast iron sleeves will be pressed in, finished
to final bore and honed to match the new pistons. These procedures are
clearly outlined, in detail, in several books on the subject, namely:
"Tuning for Speed" by P.E. Irving and "Modern Motorcycle Mechanics" by
J.B. Nicholson, among others, and not beyond my range. There are
several vendors who would perform the resleeving for me, but I don't
have enough equity in my home for a large enough loan to cover their
fees.

My question is more in regard to a source for the materials: cast iron
pipe, of the approximate wall thickness/diameter for this type of
application. Roughly, say, 2.5" bore and 3.00" outside diameter. It
would be preferable to find the type of cast iron with the correct
characteristics, as well.
Thanks again,
Norman C.


Which Triumph is it?

Mark Rand
RTFM

nortonfan wrote:
Thanks, Karl.

Perhaps, I did not make it clear enough that what I am dealing with is
a twin cylinder, cast aluminum block, which has cast iron sleeves
pressed in. Once the defective sleeves are pressed out, I'm not
attempting to weld anything but the cracks in the aluminum cylinder
block, after which new cast iron sleeves will be pressed in, finished
to final bore and honed to match the new pistons. These procedures are
clearly outlined, in detail, in several books on the subject, namely:
"Tuning for Speed" by P.E. Irving and "Modern Motorcycle Mechanics" by
J.B. Nicholson, among others, and not beyond my range. There are
several vendors who would perform the resleeving for me, but I don't
have enough equity in my home for a large enough loan to cover their
fees.

My question is more in regard to a source for the materials: cast iron
pipe, of the approximate wall thickness/diameter for this type of
application. Roughly, say, 2.5" bore and 3.00" outside diameter. It
would be preferable to find the type of cast iron with the correct
characteristics, as well.
Thanks again,
Norman C.



MSC has cast iron. I ordered a 2 x 4 x 12 holed round a couple of weeks
ago. They have a number of diameters listed in their catalog.

John

nortonfan wrote:

Hi group!

I'm restoring a vintage Triumph motorcycle and discovered that the
alloy cylinder block (Wellworthy, I believe) is cracked, near the
exhaust ports, through the sleeve and cylinder block.

Replacement sleevers are no longer available from Wellworthy and I
would like to make new ones to press in after welding the cylinder
block. My question is: where would I find suitable cast iron pipe for
making the sleeves? I have access to a lathe and milling machine, as
well as welding capability.

The intent is to restore this machine but not as a daily rider. That
said, I would rather do the job correctly.

Thanks,
Norman C



http://www.anandenterprise.com/product.htm

http://www.slingermfg.com/products.htm

http://www.mahle.com/C125705E004FDAF...JEGQV610STULEN

In article .com,
says...

My question is more in regard to a source for the materials: cast iron
pipe, of the approximate wall thickness/diameter for this type of
application. Roughly, say, 2.5" bore and 3.00" outside diameter. It
would be preferable to find the type of cast iron with the correct
characteristics, as well.


http://www.dura-bar.com/
The site isn't working for me just now. IIRC they list discounted drops
(short remnants) online.

Here's a description of the material on a distributors page...
http://www.petersonsteel.com/durabar.asp

Ned Simmons

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 23:42:20 GMT, ff wrote:

nortonfan wrote:

Hi group!

I'm restoring a vintage Triumph motorcycle and discovered that the
alloy cylinder block (Wellworthy, I believe) is cracked, near the
exhaust ports, through the sleeve and cylinder block.

Replacement sleevers are no longer available from Wellworthy and I
would like to make new ones to press in after welding the cylinder
block. My question is: where would I find suitable cast iron pipe for
making the sleeves? I have access to a lathe and milling machine, as
well as welding capability.

The intent is to restore this machine but not as a daily rider. That
said, I would rather do the job correctly.

Thanks,
Norman C



http://www.anandenterprise.com/product.htm

http://www.slingermfg.com/products.htm

http://www.mahle.com/C125705E004FDAF...JEGQV610STULEN


Had a Series 2 Landrover that put a rod through the block in Central
Africa in the seventies. We bored out the block to accept a Ferguson
35 (IIRC) sleeve that we modified to shrink/press fit, then rebored
the sleave to the proper dimensions to install a standard size land
rover replacement piston. Likely took close to 40 hours of work, but a
replacement engine was out of the question, and we DID have both a
boring bar and a large lathe on-site. We froze the sleave, and heated
the block with a big rosebud, then quickly pressed the frozen sleave
into the hot block. We let it sit a couple days, then reheated the
block and sleave together, and let it cool real slow to stress relieve
it, and were fortunate to find the block had not warped.
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Thanks, John!

Norman C.

nortonfan wrote:

Hi group!

I'm restoring a vintage Triumph motorcycle and discovered that the
alloy cylinder block (Wellworthy, I believe) is cracked, near the
exhaust ports, through the sleeve and cylinder block.

Replacement sleevers are no longer available from Wellworthy and I
would like to make new ones to press in after welding the cylinder
block. My question is: where would I find suitable cast iron pipe for
making the sleeves? I have access to a lathe and milling machine, as
well as welding capability.

The intent is to restore this machine but not as a daily rider. That
said, I would rather do the job correctly.

Thanks,
Norman C

How vintage? What year, model?

Considered going back to stock cast iron cylinders?

Might as well shop for a source for a set of them while you are
looking, on the likelyhood that there is a better chance of success when
there is a backup plan...

Rode a Norton 850 for a few years, as sole source of transportation,
had a couple Triumphs, and currently have a 69 Bonny project waiting
quietly to beccome job # 1 for a rebuild.

As others have suggested, save yourself the misery and source out some
sleeves from the automotive suppliers. At least that way, you can expect
the material to be suitable for the use from the start.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Mark,

My project is a mid-fifties Rickman-Triumph, pre-unit, with an AMC
gearbox, not unlike the Norton Atlas tranny. I realize pre-unit
construction Triumph engines went up to 650cc, but the previous owners
installed a Wellworthy aluminum cylinder and bored to 750cc. It was a
desert sled and through several seasons of riding in the dirt it was
rebored to .060" over; which brought on the cylinder failure, in my
humble opinion. When I bought it, they were running the engine without
rings! The engine still managed to run and was a fun bike to ride.
Admirably, it was not hard to start either! I plan to sleeve to 650cc
bore, as the bike, dripping wet, weighs only 260lbs, and will deliver
sufficient power for my needs. Through twenty-five years I've held
onto it, with the idea in mind that when I retired, I would restore it
to its former dignified days of glory. I love vintage British bikes -
oil leaks and Lucas electrics are what dreams are made of!

Cheers,
Norman C.

Excellent! Thanks you!

Norman C

Norman,
That sequence is incorrect. Weld first. Bore out to new size. Order sleeve.
Press in place after arrival. Simple. Try LA sleeve in the States. If they
don't have it, they'll make it for you. Good picing as well.
Steve

"nortonfan" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ed,

I shall follow your suggestions and check with Clevite, for sleeves.
It had not occured to me! The weld I would undertake would be in the
aluminum cylinder block, after the defective sleeves have been pressed
put.

Cheers,
Norman C.

I love vintage British bikes - oil leaks and Lucas electrics are what dreams
are made of!

A man after my own heart!

Steve,
I've done a Google search for LA sleeve, to no avail. Do you have any
contact information?

Thanks,
Norman C

On 16 Apr 2006 20:10:16 -0700, "nortonfan" wrote:

Steve,
I've done a Google search for LA sleeve, to no avail. Do you have any
contact information?

Thanks,
Norman C


http://www.lasleeve.com/master.html


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You rule!

Thanks again!

Norman C

Greetings and Salutations...

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 13:10:12 -0600, ED
wrote:

On 15 Apr 2006 11:34:18 -0700, "nortonfan" wrote:

Hi group!

I'm restoring a vintage Triumph motorcycle and discovered that the
alloy cylinder block (Wellworthy, I believe) is cracked, near the
exhaust ports, through the sleeve and cylinder block.

Replacement sleevers are no longer available from Wellworthy and I
would like to make new ones to press in after welding the cylinder
block. My question is: where would I find suitable cast iron pipe for
making the sleeves? I have access to a lathe and milling machine, as
well as welding capability.

The intent is to restore this machine but not as a daily rider. That
said, I would rather do the job correctly.

Thanks,
Norman C


Norman.

Clevite among others make "tincan" dry sleeves, most any auto
machine shop would be a source as would a decent supply house.
ie NAPA ect. Welding cracked cast iron engine blocks is somewhat of
a black science to my understanding. But some of the new type
of rods look promising, I have no experience or connection with
http://www.muggyweld.com/index2.html for example


Well, welding cast iron CAN be a problem. I would suggest
that the easiest course of action is to seek out a remanufacturer of
Diesel Engines who has a lot of experience with the process.
"Coincidentally", WE do that sort of thing...and here is a link
to the website http://www/dieseldhp.com/
FOr greatest success, one really has to pre-heat the part to
be welded, and, the cracks have to be ground out to get rid of ALL
surface contamination. Also, while it is possible to stick weld
these things, gas welding is a far better process.
Not only does one need access to welding equipment, but,
of course, the gasket seats and ports will have to be re-milled,
so, access to a good, vertical mill is vital.

years ago in another life I witnessed cracked webs on heavy duty
diesel blocks successfully welded. They always came back without
any warrantee and sometimes were known to crack/leak later.

Yea...that can be a problem, although it has been our
experience that often re-cracking is a problem of technique,
rather than issues with the process. We do have heads come
though the plant that are impossible to weld, as every time
we weld them, they crack some OTHER place, no matter how
carefully we do it. Often, though, these are older heads.
SO far, though, we have a pretty good success rate, upwards
of 99%. Most of the warranty issues we run into seem to
come from incorrect installation, rather than failures of
the welds...but then we do work pretty hard to make sure that
any head that is likely to fail never makes it out of the
shop.
Regards
Dave Mundt