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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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A new low in cheap tools?
Really, I don't usually buy cheap tools. I appreciate high quality,
and if I can remotely justify it to myself ("well, I just might use this a second time within the next decade... certainly within the next two..."), I'll spring the extra bucks and get the better version. However.... part of me is a sucker for an apparent bargain and every now and then I do get something cheap, although usually with my eyes open. So it was last summer when House Of Tools (here in Canada, don't know if they're in the States) had a drill index with 1/16in to 1/2in drill bits in 64ths for some silly low price – don't even remember what – 5 bucks? 10? Anyway, they were sharp, I figured how bad can they be? Maybe the steel is junk and they'll lose their edge immediately – I'll just reserve 'em for drilling plastic, balsa, stuff like that, right? So finally the other day I need to drill some nice soft plastic, got 'em out, chucked up the bit I needed. Hmm. Must have chucked it off-center. Seems to be wobbling. Rechucked, paying attention this time. Hmmm? Still wobbling. Took it out. Rolled it on the drill press table. BENT! Straight (if I may use the word) from the factory! Argh! Sheesh. Ya can't trust anybody anymore. I expect cheap stuff to wear out in no time, but I imagine I'd get at least one gentle use out of it before it died. Maybe some of the rest of the set is usable. Oh, well. Cheap lesson? At least it wasn't a $4K lathe. Mickey |
#2
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A new low in cheap tools?
"Mickey Feldman" wrote in message ... Really, I don't usually buy cheap tools. I appreciate high quality, and if I can remotely justify it to myself ("well, I just might use this a second time within the next decade... certainly within the next two..."), I'll spring the extra bucks and get the better version. However.... part of me is a sucker for an apparent bargain and every now and then I do get something cheap, although usually with my eyes open. So it was last summer when House Of Tools (here in Canada, don't know if they're in the States) had a drill index with 1/16in to 1/2in drill bits in 64ths for some silly low price - don't even remember what - 5 bucks? 10? Anyway, they were sharp, I figured how bad can they be? Maybe the steel is junk and they'll lose their edge immediately - I'll just reserve 'em for drilling plastic, balsa, stuff like that, right? So finally the other day I need to drill some nice soft plastic, got 'em out, chucked up the bit I needed. Hmm. Must have chucked it off-center. Seems to be wobbling. Rechucked, paying attention this time. Hmmm? Still wobbling. Took it out. Rolled it on the drill press table. BENT! Straight (if I may use the word) from the factory! Argh! Sheesh. Ya can't trust anybody anymore. I expect cheap stuff to wear out in no time, but I imagine I'd get at least one gentle use out of it before it died. Maybe some of the rest of the set is usable. Oh, well. Cheap lesson? At least it wasn't a $4K lathe. Mickey I bought a set like that It was either KMS or BusyBee, could have been House of Tools, I can't remember. Anyway, 29 reduced-shank brad point bits in a metal box for next to nothing. I figured, I'm drilling softwood, how good does the steel have to be? Turned out the reduced shanks were somehow cut on an angle to the centre line. The first time I chucked one up, I stood there wondering why the tip was blurry. So, on my $1200 lathe, I chucked them up and reduced the shanks a little more, until they were straight: they work just fine now. Sometimes cheap is okay David... |
#3
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A new low in cheap tools?
"Mickey Feldman" wrote in
message ... So finally the other day I need to drill some nice soft plastic, got 'em out, chucked up the bit I needed. Hmm. Must have chucked it off-center. Seems to be wobbling. Rechucked, paying attention this time. Hmmm? Still wobbling. Took it out. Rolled it on the drill press table. BENT! Straight (if I may use the word) from the factory! Argh! Sheesh. Ya can't trust anybody anymore. I think those are the ones that actually start as nails. When a nail gets stuck in the cold-header machine and they have to grab it with pliers and twist it out, they call that nail a "drill bit" and cut the head off of it. g Ed Huntress |
#4
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A new low in cheap tools?
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:18:41 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
vaguely proposed a theory .......and in reply I say!: Not so funny. I once bought a cheapy set that were not just bent, but bendy. They were far softer than lo-ten fencing wire. I think those are the ones that actually start as nails. When a nail gets stuck in the cold-header machine and they have to grab it with pliers and twist it out, they call that nail a "drill bit" and cut the head off of it. g Ed Huntress ************************************************** ** sorry ..........no I'm not! remove ns from my header address to reply via email Spike....Spike? Hello? |
#5
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A new low in cheap tools?
My first set of cheap drill was many moons ago. I was drilling through a
piece of steel when the bit broke through and jammed. I did the usual freeing bit and finished drilling the hole OK. Came to put the drill away and it looked sort of funny. It was still straight but had twisted in the middle 1/3rd of the flutes. I had a drill whose flutes started right hand, converted to left hand and then went back to right hand. The edge was still sharp and it still cut OK. Looked really weird though. John |
#6
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A new low in cheap tools?
Greetings and Salutations...
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:38:15 -0000, "John Manders" wrote: My first set of cheap drill was many moons ago. I was drilling through a piece of steel when the bit broke through and jammed. I did the usual freeing bit and finished drilling the hole OK. Came to put the drill away and it looked sort of funny. It was still straight but had twisted in the middle 1/3rd of the flutes. I had a drill whose flutes started right hand, converted to left hand and then went back to right hand. The edge was still sharp and it still cut OK. Looked really weird though. John Yea, I posted a long time ago about one of MY experiences with dirt cheap drillsets. In this case, I was trying to drill about a 1/8" hole through some oak. It went through, but, was a struggle, and, when I pulled the drill out, I was surprised to find that a chunk of the spiral was reversed! Needless to say they all went in the trash...although now, I kind of regret not keeping the partially reversed one. While there are areas where it is great to save money (clamps, for example) it is a waste of money and time to buy cheap cutting tools. Good drills, etc, will cut more accurately, longer and better, with less force, than cheap. Regards Dave Mundt |
#7
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A new low in cheap tools?
you need to be wary of cheap clamps. I have seen a cheap malleable iron
C clamp that gave up in the middle of the back of the C section. Nice grain structure evident but not much evidence of any malleable nature. Dave Mundt wrote: Greetings and Salutations... On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:38:15 -0000, "John Manders" wrote: My first set of cheap drill was many moons ago. I was drilling through a piece of steel when the bit broke through and jammed. I did the usual freeing bit and finished drilling the hole OK. Came to put the drill away and it looked sort of funny. It was still straight but had twisted in the middle 1/3rd of the flutes. I had a drill whose flutes started right hand, converted to left hand and then went back to right hand. The edge was still sharp and it still cut OK. Looked really weird though. John Yea, I posted a long time ago about one of MY experiences with dirt cheap drillsets. In this case, I was trying to drill about a 1/8" hole through some oak. It went through, but, was a struggle, and, when I pulled the drill out, I was surprised to find that a chunk of the spiral was reversed! Needless to say they all went in the trash...although now, I kind of regret not keeping the partially reversed one. While there are areas where it is great to save money (clamps, for example) it is a waste of money and time to buy cheap cutting tools. Good drills, etc, will cut more accurately, longer and better, with less force, than cheap. Regards Dave Mundt |
#8
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A new low in cheap tools?
Greetings and Salutations...
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:50:15 +0000, David Billington wrote: you need to be wary of cheap clamps. I have seen a cheap malleable iron C clamp that gave up in the middle of the back of the C section. Nice grain structure evident but not much evidence of any malleable nature. This is a good point. For "C" clamps, I tend to prefer decent quality ones. The Pittsburgh "F" clamps from HF are not a bad deal, and actually, I discovered a bit ago that HF "C" clamps are not iron...but steel. I hacked a great mod to the deck height adjustment mechanism on my John Deere lawn tractor by cutting out the threaded section of one of their 6" clamps and welding it to the support arm. Probably not the greatest steel in the world, but, it has worked really well for several years now. In general I have found that I would rather buy the best, and only cry once...but "best" can be a flexible concept... Regards Dave Mundt |
#9
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A new low in cheap tools?
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:32:44 GMT, Mickey Feldman
wrote: ===Really, I don't usually buy cheap tools. I appreciate high quality, ===and if I can remotely justify it to myself ("well, I just might use ===this a second time within the next decade... certainly within the next ===two..."), I'll spring the extra bucks and get the better version. === ===However.... part of me is a sucker for an apparent bargain and every ===now and then I do get something cheap, although usually with my eyes ===open. So it was last summer when House Of Tools (here in Canada, don't ===know if they're in the States) had a drill index with 1/16in to 1/2in ===drill bits in 64ths for some silly low price – don't even remember ===what – 5 bucks? 10? Anyway, they were sharp, I figured how bad can ===they be? Maybe the steel is junk and they'll lose their edge ===immediately – I'll just reserve 'em for drilling plastic, balsa, stuff ===like that, right? === ===So finally the other day I need to drill some nice soft plastic, got ==='em out, chucked up the bit I needed. Hmm. Must have chucked it ===off-center. Seems to be wobbling. Rechucked, paying attention this ===time. Hmmm? Still wobbling. Took it out. Rolled it on the drill press ===table. BENT! Straight (if I may use the word) from the factory! Argh! ===Sheesh. Ya can't trust anybody anymore. I expect cheap stuff to wear ===out in no time, but I imagine I'd get at least one gentle use out of ===it before it died. Maybe some of the rest of the set is usable. === ===Oh, well. Cheap lesson? At least it wasn't a $4K lathe. === ===Mickey === I bought a set of letter drills on ebay one time for a total of $4.00 and some change. I accepted right from the start they would probably be junk..............but I had that urge for a hopefull bargain. I was totally wrong. They seem to be very good drill bits and I have yet to have one problem out of any of them. They hold an edge fine and mic out to ther proper sizes. Now I wished I bought another set or two, as these were listed in a dutch type auction. Every now and then you stumble on a great deal, rare but still a possibility. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#10
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A new low in cheap tools?
Well..I thought I would be swimming upstream here but Roy's experience
agrees with something I saw: I have avoided buying anything that cut metal from Harbor Freight(HF) thinking that it would be a waste of time and a source of frustration. A friend of mine, a good mechanical engineer, re-built a 35 Jason sailboat right along side my shop. He bought a drill set from HF and used them drilling numerous holes thru,, of all things, SS. My super duper made in the USA expensive drill bits couldn't keep up with the usage that he got out of the cheap drills from HF. I'm still thinking about that and wondering what and how? At any rate,the price differences like $9.95 for a die grinder vs. $159 US I can throw the $9.95 unit at the dog if it evers craps out and it still hasn't thru the building of several projects and hard usage. I just bought a set of 1/2 - 1" Silver & Demming drills in increments of 1/16. I paid less for the whole set than just the 7/8" drill at the local store. Cheap? Maybe..I"ll find out. I hope they are as long lasting as my friends.. Stu Fields "Roy" wrote in message ... On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:32:44 GMT, Mickey Feldman wrote: ===Really, I don't usually buy cheap tools. I appreciate high quality, ===and if I can remotely justify it to myself ("well, I just might use ===this a second time within the next decade... certainly within the next ===two..."), I'll spring the extra bucks and get the better version. === ===However.... part of me is a sucker for an apparent bargain and every ===now and then I do get something cheap, although usually with my eyes ===open. So it was last summer when House Of Tools (here in Canada, don't ===know if they're in the States) had a drill index with 1/16in to 1/2in ===drill bits in 64ths for some silly low price - don't even remember ===what - 5 bucks? 10? Anyway, they were sharp, I figured how bad can ===they be? Maybe the steel is junk and they'll lose their edge ===immediately - I'll just reserve 'em for drilling plastic, balsa, stuff ===like that, right? === ===So finally the other day I need to drill some nice soft plastic, got ==='em out, chucked up the bit I needed. Hmm. Must have chucked it ===off-center. Seems to be wobbling. Rechucked, paying attention this ===time. Hmmm? Still wobbling. Took it out. Rolled it on the drill press ===table. BENT! Straight (if I may use the word) from the factory! Argh! ===Sheesh. Ya can't trust anybody anymore. I expect cheap stuff to wear ===out in no time, but I imagine I'd get at least one gentle use out of ===it before it died. Maybe some of the rest of the set is usable. === ===Oh, well. Cheap lesson? At least it wasn't a $4K lathe. === ===Mickey === I bought a set of letter drills on ebay one time for a total of $4.00 and some change. I accepted right from the start they would probably be junk..............but I had that urge for a hopefull bargain. I was totally wrong. They seem to be very good drill bits and I have yet to have one problem out of any of them. They hold an edge fine and mic out to ther proper sizes. Now I wished I bought another set or two, as these were listed in a dutch type auction. Every now and then you stumble on a great deal, rare but still a possibility. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
#11
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A new low in cheap tools?
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:56:23 -0800, "Stu Fields" wrote:
Well..I thought I would be swimming upstream here but Roy's experience agrees with something I saw: I have avoided buying anything that cut metal from Harbor Freight(HF) thinking that it would be a waste of time and a source of frustration. A friend of mine, a good mechanical engineer, re-built a 35 Jason sailboat right along side my shop. He bought a drill set from HF and used them drilling numerous holes thru,, of all things, SS. My super duper made in the USA expensive drill bits couldn't keep up with the usage that he got out of the cheap drills from HF. I'm still thinking about that and wondering what and how? At any rate,the price differences like $9.95 for a die grinder vs. $159 US I can throw the $9.95 unit at the dog if it evers craps out and it still hasn't thru the building of several projects and hard usage. I just bought a set of 1/2 - 1" Silver & Demming drills in increments of 1/16. I paid less for the whole set than just the 7/8" drill at the local store. Cheap? Maybe..I"ll find out. I hope they are as long lasting as my friends.. Stu Fields I buy a lot from HF, and other purveyors of "quality import" machines and tooling. The quality may not be high, but the price more than makes up for that in most cases. The grinders you mention are a case in point, as is the famous HF bandsaw. Import cutting tools, though, are a real crap shoot. Some are pretty good, some are downright awful. The problem is, you can't tell which it is going to be until one fails on you, usually in a way that does the maximum amount of damage to your project. I've gotten drill bits so soft that the flutes literally stripped off of them when I tried to drill a piece of mild steel. I've also gotten bits so hard that they shattered when attempting to drill a piece of pine. The grind angles are often wrong. Bits are crooked. The wrong size. Etc. But every once in a while, one is very good indeed. So the temptation to just give them one more try can be strong. I try to resist that urge, though. It makes more sense to me to buy good name brand bits, taps, and blades. The cost isn't really that much more in proportion to the cost of the projects on which they're used, and the results are much more uniformly satisfactory. Gary |
#12
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A new low in cheap tools?
There is a difference between "cheap", and "inexpensive"! My air wrenches,
and a lot of the sockets came from discount importers, and liquidators. They did 4 years of hard service in a motorcycle shop, and are still in good condition. I am always on the lookout for electronic stuff at garage sales, and the local Salvation Army thrift shop. Currently, I have almost fixed a Motorola Startac cell phone ($1.98). A Sony diskman, found at a garage sale for a dollar, was repaired, and has been working well fo 3 years now. My Nokia cell phone, made from 3 dead/damaged ones cost $5.00. This computer was built up from discarded parts, some of which I repaired. Steve R. |
#13
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HF hits and misses, was: A new low in cheap tools?
There are a lot of temptations in the HF catalog. Of course, the
particular item may be a bargain in that it's poor quality, but is still inexpensive for what it is. Best example: the famous 4 1/2" grinder. Or the item may be just be a POS that's overpriced at any price. Or anywhere in between. I've taken the chance and gotten stuff that's all over this "dimension". Sometimes I knew from what I'd heard here. Most of the time I wish that I'd heard about it here. So here is what I have to say about some of the things that I've gotten at HF. The Bargains (well worth the money): - the 4 1/2" angle grinder ($12) - the compact bench bender ($50) - 6" digital calipers ($20) - 440/880# electric hoist ($75) - 1/2" air impact wrench ($20) - air sheet metal shears ($40) - 10" carbide circular saw blade ($15) - nitrile gloves ($7) - air impact hammer set ($10) - 40 pc socket set ($2!! - I know, this should be in the POS category, but it hangs out in the car for when I need to take something apart at the dump and then it's worth it) - free shipping ($30, $40, or $50 order, depending on current promotion) Satisfied, but nothing to gloat about: - a couple of Pittsburgh socket sets - 6 & 11" swivel pad vise-grip knockoff's (11" is really useful) - 15' ratchet tie-down The POS's: - air sheet metal nibbler (the "tooth" broke 1st time I used it) - laser level (divergent beam) - air line couplers (leak) - acid brushes (skimpy on bristles) - membership in the Inside Track Club (I saved enough on the hoist to pay for this, otherwise it's not worth it) Well, now that I'm itemized my HF buys, I guess that I've been more satisfied that I thought I was. Where's that latest catalog? Hope this helps, Bob |
#14
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HF hits and misses, was: A new low in cheap tools?
I forgot the main qualification to my ratings. It's the standard "I use
this stuff only in a hobby context. It's value in professional/commercial setting may be entirely different." Bob |
#15
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HF hits and misses, was: A new low in cheap tools?
Bob Engelhardt wrote:
There are a lot of temptations in the HF catalog. Of course, the particular item may be a bargain in that it's poor quality, but is still inexpensive for what it is. Best example: the famous 4 1/2" grinder. Or the item may be just be a POS that's overpriced at any price. Or anywhere in between. I've taken the chance and gotten stuff that's all over this "dimension". Sometimes I knew from what I'd heard here. Most of the time I wish that I'd heard about it here. So here is what I have to say about some of the things that I've gotten at HF. The Bargains (well worth the money): - the 4 1/2" angle grinder ($12) - the compact bench bender ($50) - 6" digital calipers ($20) - 440/880# electric hoist ($75) - 1/2" air impact wrench ($20) - air sheet metal shears ($40) - 10" carbide circular saw blade ($15) - nitrile gloves ($7) - air impact hammer set ($10) - 40 pc socket set ($2!! - I know, this should be in the POS category, but it hangs out in the car for when I need to take something apart at the dump and then it's worth it) - free shipping ($30, $40, or $50 order, depending on current promotion) Satisfied, but nothing to gloat about: - a couple of Pittsburgh socket sets - 6 & 11" swivel pad vise-grip knockoff's (11" is really useful) - 15' ratchet tie-down The POS's: - air sheet metal nibbler (the "tooth" broke 1st time I used it) - laser level (divergent beam) - air line couplers (leak) - acid brushes (skimpy on bristles) - membership in the Inside Track Club (I saved enough on the hoist to pay for this, otherwise it's not worth it) Well, now that I'm itemized my HF buys, I guess that I've been more satisfied that I thought I was. Where's that latest catalog? Hope this helps, Bob the 4 1/2 in angle grinder.. for $17 for me at the retail store.. i looked at the 4 in. one and figured i get the 4 1/2 one for $2. more... i got the plastic welder.. found out that you needed air supply.. i have two air compressors, but it would not work on the one i was planning on using so i brought it back... $29.95... kept the two $3.00 packs of plastic welding rods and used their $5.00 soldering iron on it, worked great... when doing a replace on a 2001 honda civic bumper/repair.. the inside styrofoam material broke: looked up in the honda catalog and it listed for $60(wow, kinda high for a 4 in. by 2 in. by 24 in. piece of foam).. took the broken part and held in place and passed the $5.00 soldering iron knife blade between the two pieces and now it was fixed... got the $7.47 rotorary tool kit with 50 pieces of access. the rotory tool was crap, but the 60 pieces was well work it to use on my dremel tool... would have cost about $50. or more for these pieces if i got them from dremel.... and the $19.95 plug in the cig. lighter impact wrench was a bargain as i hurt my back and needed this thing so i could get the flat tire off the car...... |
#16
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HF hits and misses, was: A new low in cheap tools?
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:40:52 -0500, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
The POS's: - air sheet metal nibbler (the "tooth" broke 1st time I used it) OTOH, I've used the hell out of mine, and it hasn't broken. Replacement cutters are available from HF. Gary |
#17
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A new low in cheap tools?
I did get some cheep drill bits from American Science and Surplus some years
back. Wondered why they didn't drill holes. Turns out the cutting ends weren't sharpened -- you machinsts know about leading edges and trailing edges. Well, I had to spend a couple minutes at the grinder, doing the angles that the factory oughta done. -- Christopher A. Young Jesus: The Reason for the Season www.lds.org www.mormons.com "Mickey Feldman" wrote in message ... Really, I don't usually buy cheap tools. I appreciate high quality, and if I can remotely justify it to myself ("well, I just might use this a second time within the next decade... certainly within the next two..."), I'll spring the extra bucks and get the better version. However.... part of me is a sucker for an apparent bargain and every now and then I do get something cheap, although usually with my eyes open. So it was last summer when House Of Tools (here in Canada, don't know if they're in the States) had a drill index with 1/16in to 1/2in drill bits in 64ths for some silly low price - don't even remember what - 5 bucks? 10? Anyway, they were sharp, I figured how bad can they be? Maybe the steel is junk and they'll lose their edge immediately - I'll just reserve 'em for drilling plastic, balsa, stuff like that, right? So finally the other day I need to drill some nice soft plastic, got 'em out, chucked up the bit I needed. Hmm. Must have chucked it off-center. Seems to be wobbling. Rechucked, paying attention this time. Hmmm? Still wobbling. Took it out. Rolled it on the drill press table. BENT! Straight (if I may use the word) from the factory! Argh! Sheesh. Ya can't trust anybody anymore. I expect cheap stuff to wear out in no time, but I imagine I'd get at least one gentle use out of it before it died. Maybe some of the rest of the set is usable. Oh, well. Cheap lesson? At least it wasn't a $4K lathe. Mickey |
#18
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A new low in cheap tools?
And the "flare nut" wrench set from Pittsburgh tools, imported by Harbor
Fright. They were so soft, and so oversized that they wouldn't turn nuts -- flare or otherwise -- they went into the trash. And the crescent wrench from Dollar Store.... won't do that again. -- Christopher A. Young Jesus: The Reason for the Season www.lds.org www.mormons.com "Mickey Feldman" wrote in message ... Really, I don't usually buy cheap tools. I appreciate high quality, and if I can remotely justify it to myself ("well, I just might use this a second time within the next decade... certainly within the next two..."), I'll spring the extra bucks and get the better version. However.... part of me is a sucker for an apparent bargain and every now and then I do get something cheap, although usually with my eyes open. So it was last summer when House Of Tools (here in Canada, don't know if they're in the States) had a drill index with 1/16in to 1/2in drill bits in 64ths for some silly low price - don't even remember what - 5 bucks? 10? Anyway, they were sharp, I figured how bad can they be? Maybe the steel is junk and they'll lose their edge immediately - I'll just reserve 'em for drilling plastic, balsa, stuff like that, right? So finally the other day I need to drill some nice soft plastic, got 'em out, chucked up the bit I needed. Hmm. Must have chucked it off-center. Seems to be wobbling. Rechucked, paying attention this time. Hmmm? Still wobbling. Took it out. Rolled it on the drill press table. BENT! Straight (if I may use the word) from the factory! Argh! Sheesh. Ya can't trust anybody anymore. I expect cheap stuff to wear out in no time, but I imagine I'd get at least one gentle use out of it before it died. Maybe some of the rest of the set is usable. Oh, well. Cheap lesson? At least it wasn't a $4K lathe. Mickey |
#19
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A new low in cheap tools?
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:16:39 -0500, "Stormin Mormonn"
wrote: And the "flare nut" wrench set from Pittsburgh tools, imported by Harbor Fright. They were so soft, and so oversized that they wouldn't turn nuts -- flare or otherwise -- they went into the trash. And the crescent wrench from Dollar Store.... won't do that again. I found a perfect use for an "El Cheap o" stamped sheet metal wrench. One Saturday morning I bought a document shredder by GBC for $1.00. When I tried to use it, it would shred for about 1/2' then seem to spin it's wheels without doing any work. On examination, I determined that the problem lay in the nylon gear turning on the 7/16 hex shaft. I took a thin, stamped six point box wrench, cut it to fit, carved away enough of the hub and ribs to accommodate the added part, and now I have a positive drive to the shredding mechanism. I suspect that the nylon gear was designed to slip on overload or jam, but with it slipping on a single sheet of copy paper, the designers exceeded their goals considerably. Sure, fixing yard sale junk is not profitable, but at my age, it gets to be fun! Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
#20
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A new low in cheap tools?
It's a disease. I too am fond of the fix it myself. When my oldest was
little, the once loved stores would put on a $0.25/item sale on Saturdays. I would buy several of the same toy to make a working one usually saving over $20. I too had a broken shredder. It knocks over easily and the switch took a direct hit. Simple matter to put it back together, but there was 1 spring missing. None of the usual shops had a 3 position switch with 8 connections on the bottom, so I hit Apache Reclamation. Boy, they had tons of them. I bought several of each type (5 or so) hoping one would fit. Couple a bucks at the most. I was able to tear one apart and use it's springs as a replacement so I didn't even have to solder! Lots o fun. Joel. phx Sure, fixing yard sale junk is not profitable, but at my age, it gets to be fun! Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
#21
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A new low in cheap tools?
Mickey Feldman wrote:
snipped So finally the other day I need to drill some nice soft plastic, got 'em out, chucked up the bit I needed. Hmm. Must have chucked it off-center. Seems to be wobbling. Rechucked, paying attention this time. Hmmm? Still wobbling. Took it out. Rolled it on the drill press table. BENT! Straight (if I may use the word) from the factory! Argh! Maybe he can use those drills to fix the cast iron clamps Hylouros posted about here last month. G He said: ************************************************** ************************ Hi all, I recently picked up three large (7") cast iron 3/4" pipe clamps for a buck each. Second hand, but never used, and I think I know why now: the two holes on the threaded side of the clamp don't match up very well. See a pic of the clamp at: snipped Anyway, I'm thinking that the only way to salvage these is to bore out one side of the non-threaded hole until it is parallel with the threaded hole--removing about 1/4" of material by my estimation. The hole is 1" dia., 3" deep, cast iron. ************************************************** ************************* Jeff (Celebrating his 68th birthday today!) -- Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) "My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying." |
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A new low in cheap tools?
Jeff Wisnia wrote:
(Snip) Jeff (Celebrating his 68th birthday today!) Happy Birthday, Jeff! --Winston |
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A new low in cheap tools?
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:21:27 -0800, Winston
wrote: Jeff Wisnia wrote: (Snip) Jeff (Celebrating his 68th birthday today!) Happy Birthday, Jeff! --Winston Woo Woo! Happy Birthday! Gunner The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long |
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A new low in cheap tools?
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:21:27 -0800, Winston
brought forth from the murky depths: Jeff Wisnia wrote: (Snip) Jeff (Celebrating his 68th birthday today!) Happy Birthday, Jeff! Yes, HBD, Jeffwy! -- Impeach 'em ALL! ---------------------------------------------------- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming |
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A new low in cheap tools?
Working in machine shops for over 15 years I have found many supposed "good"
quality twist drills that were ground off center or had a trailing edge higher than the cutting edge. Always check your grinds. --snip,snip-- "Mickey Feldman" wrote in message ... |
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A new low in cheap tools?
In article vxbWb.8318$Le3.5571@okepread04,
..--- s p e a r f o x ---... ten.xoc.mapson@xofraeps wrote: Working in machine shops for over 15 years I have found many supposed "good" quality twist drills that were ground off center or had a trailing edge higher than the cutting edge. Always check your grinds. Spearfox, *Please* change your "realname" portion of your "From: " and "Reply-To: " headers. The presence of the '' in there (in several places) causes my newsreader (which uses a shell script to save articles which I ask to save) gets very confused when it sees those, which it takes as a "redirect input from (whatever follows). While I suspect that this is no problem on most PC-based newsreaders, it *is* a problem on common unix-based ones, so you will be inconveniencing someone at the least. I'm sure that I am not alone in experiencing this problem. I'm posting (with a "Cc: " after (hopefully) un-munging your return address) so others will also know that some things in real-name fields can be a problem. I know for sure that parentheses there are similarly a problem -- with a different error message. Thank you, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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A new low in cheap tools?
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A new low in cheap tools?
Oh, come on!
First, we hear that UNIX can't hack spaces in file names. Then we're told that UNIX can't hack USENET articles posted by people with angle brackets in their name. Now we hear that UNIX can't hack file names with parentheses in them. All of this is completely untrue. It may be that there is some specific software, running under some UNIX or other, that has problems like this, but then that software is buggy, and should be fixed. The only character you can't have in a UNIX file name is the forward slash ('/'), because it's used as a directory separator. The funny name with the graphical arrow in it was completely legal, as well, and should pose no problem to any properly working news or email software. However, if you want to be sure you use file names portable to anything, stick to file names of maximum eight characters picked from the letters A-Z and digits 0-9, then a single period ('.'), then a maximum of three characters picked from the same set. These file names will be MS-DOS compatible, and will also work on anything else that's less than about 30 years old. :-) -tih -- Tom Ivar Helbekkmo, Senior System Administrator, EUnet Norway www.eunet.no T: +47-22092958 M: +47-93013940 F: +47-22092901 |
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A new low in cheap tools?
In article ,
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote: Oh, come on! First, we hear that UNIX can't hack spaces in file names. Then we're told that UNIX can't hack USENET articles posted by people with angle brackets in their name. Now we hear that UNIX can't hack file names with parentheses in them. No -- what I am saying is that these names are problems to the *shell* -- the command-line interpreter, which makes it awkward to *type* such filenames. (Some newer shells, such as zsh and tcsh at least, have a shortcut to deal with that with an already-existing filename -- a side effect of filename completion.) 1) '(' starts a subshell -- what follows it is run as a command in a separate subshell, up to the corresponding closing ')' 2) ' ' (spaces) in filenames are a problem to the normal unix shells because the *shell* takes spaces as delimiters between arguments in the command line. (tabs and newlines are also similar delimiters). 3) '' (and for that matter '' are problems because they are used for I/O redirection. '' means "take input from the file whose name follows". '' means "write output to the file whose name follows. "" means append output to the tail of the existing file whose name follow. All can be dealt with on the command line by prepending a '\' to each such offending character -- saying "I know that this character is special to you, shell, but just for the moment please treat it as a plain character." Or -- the entire line can be enclosed in quotes - double quotes '"' or single quotes "'" -- though the effect of these differs somewhat if (for example) there are '$' in the line -- as this introduces a shell variable name unless similarly escaped. This does not happen inside single quotes, but does inside double quotes. There are quite a few other characters which, while legal in filenames, have special meaning to the various shells. Sometimes, only in particular locations, other times anywhere. Among those, aside from the ones already mentioned, are '~', '#', '^', '&', '*' '[', ']', '{', '}', '|' and '?'. I wont' bother to list the various things these do in the different shells, as I am bound to miss some. :-) Also, each of the quote marks: ( ', ", and ` ) have their own functions, and are thus bad things to put in filenames. Even '-' at the *beginning* of a filename can create problems, if you don't know how to work around it. Try this following sequence from the shell (any shell) -- *not* from a GUI, which works around the shell special characters by not using the shell: cd /tmp touch -junque rm -junque :-) Yes -- I know of several ways to remove it -- but for a first-time user, it can be a real problem. The first time I encountered it (before some shells put in an alternative way to deal with it) I wound up writing and compiling a tiny program to delete a specific file name. :-) Note that to put '\' in a filename, it, also, must be "escaped" with a '\', so: jim\beam would show up as: jimbeam But: jim\\beam would create a file named: jim\beam. Sometimes, in shell scripts, you are subjected to more than one pass of shell processing, so you would have to double them yet again, using jim\\\\beam to create the file name from within a script which had to be read into a shell and then executed. All of this is completely untrue. It may be that there is some specific software, running under some UNIX or other, that has problems like this, but then that software is buggy, and should be fixed. You are trying to tell me that the original Bourne shell (/bin/sh), and all subsequent ones that I have encountered, are buggy? The shells *are* the user interface of unix. The only character you can't have in a UNIX file name is the forward slash ('/'), because it's used as a directory separator. There is one other forbidden character -- the NULL character (ASCII code '0'). This is used to flag end-of-string in many places in unix -- including in filenames. And actually, there *is* one way to put '/' in a filename on unix -- at least on Sun servers running NFS (Networked File System), offering file systems to the Macintosh. I was a system administrator on such a network before I retired, and the only way to deal with these from the unix side was to edit the raw directory to change the characters, and *then* rename or remove the file. However, NFS somehow manages to bypass the unix filename syntax checking. The funny name with the graphical arrow in it was completely legal, as well, and should pose no problem to any properly working news or email software. Note that many unix newsreaders are descendants of rn (trn and my current strn as prime examples). rn (and descendants) uses shell scripts to accomplish many things -- including saving articles -- normally by appending them to a file named for the newsgroup. I make a practice to save articles which I have read in this way. Unfortunately, when the shell script sees characters like '(', ')', '', '', or similar (in this case in either the "From: " or "Reply-To: " headers -- even though it is not creating a file name from them, it *is* checking them -- it attempts to use normal shell syntax rules on them -- and barfs. I have encountered this many times (and mentioned it in the newsgroup when I have encountered it). As a work-around, since I run my own news server, I go into the file in the news spool, and edit the offending characters to avoid the problem. Yes -- from within a compiled program (including a fully-compiled newsreader), you can create almost any filename. But the various shells, because of their flexibility, have special meanings assigned to many characters. However, if you want to be sure you use file names portable to anything, stick to file names of maximum eight characters picked from the letters A-Z and digits 0-9, then a single period ('.'), then a maximum of three characters picked from the same set. These file names will be MS-DOS compatible, and will also work on anything else that's less than about 30 years old. :-) 30 years? Let's see -- I have still some SSB DOS-68 manuals from about 1978 (it is not yet 2008, is it?) which are not 8.3 filenames, but rather 6.3. No, I don't expect to use these for newsreading, or for much of anything serious, these days. I'm not really sure whether CP/M was 8.3 or 6.3 in its filenames, as I have never run it at home. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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