I saw the Cincinatti Tray-Lathe yesterday. Here are some pictures:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe2.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe3.jpg

The first picture shows most of the lathe from the front; the second is a
closeup of the feedscrew (attempting to show the wear in the keyway, but I
don't think I was overly successful); the third is a closer shot of the
apron and its controls. By the way, in the first and last picture you can
see why it is called a Tray-Lathe -- the top of the headstock is a large
tray, and the top of the tailstock is a small tray.

Here's what I found upon inspecting the lathe:

Bed and ways: There is some wear on the ways (a ridge on the backside at the
top). It was easy to feel with a finger. I don't have enough experience to
judge how much wear this is. There was a very slight film of rust here and
there that rubbed off with a finger. Otherwise, everything seemed to be in
good shape.

Headstock: everything seems to be in good condition with the exception of
the sight glass (see below). No play in the spindle. I was able to inspect
the gears to some degree, and they looked in very good shape -- no chips, no
excessive wear that I could see. The gear shifting mechanism works smoothly
and offers a range from 30 to 1200 rpm. The spindle is the type that has the
external taper and key (what do you call this??). I couldn't get a very good
look at the inside of the spindle, but it didn't seem to have a taper --
could that be right??

Feedscrew and gears: Unlike other lathes I've seen, this one has the change
gears entirely enclosed with its own oil bath, so I couldn't inspect them
from below. I could not detect any problems when I turned the spindle and
selected different gears, but of course this might not tell me much in any
case. The forward/neutral/reverse seemed to be a bit crochety -- at first I
thought reverse wasn't working, but then tried shifting it again and it
slipped into gear. The keyway on the feedscrew shows appreciable wear over
the first 12" or so. I wish I had enough experience with other lathes to
know how that might compare ...

Carriage: The carriage crank is loose, as I was told, but it all seems to
move smoothly. The compound was not mounted, but as far as I could see
everything was in good shape. However, the tool holder seemed loose even
when tightened down; I would probably try to replace it anyway. The
powerfeed clutch engages easily, and the half-nuts engage with little play.
You pull out the knob (under the crossfeed crank in the last picture) to
select power crossfeed. However, it took a few tries to get it to engage --
it seemed that it was sliding up to the gear, but had to be just so to go
into gear. There is one knob that I don't know what it does -- in the last
picture, you can see it low down on the apron, through the carriage crank
handle. It has a very small shaft. Some kind of oiler??

Tailstock: Seemed to be in good shape. Everything moved smoothly. It has a
#3 MT.

Accessories: Dead center; #3 to #2 MT adapter; Jacobs chuck; steady rest
(missing one of the fingers); taper jig; 3 jaw chuck; 4 jaw chuck;
faceplate. Includes both single phase 2 hp motor and original 3 phase 2 hp
motor. (I could not run either motor -- no power available.)

** Sightglasses: There are three sightglasses, one for the gear head, one
for the change gears, and one for the apron. Every one of these is dark and
distorted. The seller said he used it and just let oil leak around them.

I had a good sense about the seller. He bought the lathe from a community
college and used it for a while in a basement garage. A few years ago he
built a separate garage and turned the basement garage into an office. He
never got the lathe set up in the new garage.

Okay, so here's the question: Would you buy this lathe for around $500,
based on the description above? How much should I worry about the crochety
forward/neutral/reverse and the similarly crochety knob to engage power
crossfeed? How much should I worry about the sightglasses -- can I replace
them easily? And of course, the $64,000 question -- how much bead wear can I
live with? (I'm thinking again about the Klunkers article on the mermac
site!)

Many, many thanks for the input already received and any yet to come!

Andy

Those are commonly called "Tray Top" lathes. They are solid industrial machines.
If you don't have one, I'd certainly venture $500 on it, although you will spend
much more than that getting it fully tooled and operational. I would caution you
that you should see it run under power in every gear, also you should pull the
flat top to the headstock and examine the gears under a strong light, looking
for flecks of metal in the oil, missing teeth, etc. Also, it's Cincinnati, not
Cincinatti. The spindle is an L-type, they come L-00 through L-3, and yes you'll
be able to find L-type tooling still. There is almost certainly a Morse taper in
the headstock spindle; there should be an adapter with the lathe so you can use
identical lathe centers at both ends. I was never able to find such an adapter
for my Cincinnati so I just got a 5MT lathe center NOS off ebay it was dirt
cheap like five bucks.

Don't even think about doing a full restoration. Clean it, yes. Oil it,
certainly. Find the manual, absolutely. Then just use it. Yes, it's a klunker
but I'd use that lathe a bunch if I had it in my shop.

Grant

Andrew H. Wakefield wrote:

I saw the Cincinatti Tray-Lathe yesterday. Here are some pictures:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe2.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe3.jpg

The first picture shows most of the lathe from the front; the second is a
closeup of the feedscrew (attempting to show the wear in the keyway, but I
don't think I was overly successful); the third is a closer shot of the
apron and its controls. By the way, in the first and last picture you can
see why it is called a Tray-Lathe -- the top of the headstock is a large
tray, and the top of the tailstock is a small tray.

Here's what I found upon inspecting the lathe:

Bed and ways: There is some wear on the ways (a ridge on the backside at the
top). It was easy to feel with a finger. I don't have enough experience to
judge how much wear this is. There was a very slight film of rust here and
there that rubbed off with a finger. Otherwise, everything seemed to be in
good shape.

Headstock: everything seems to be in good condition with the exception of
the sight glass (see below). No play in the spindle. I was able to inspect
the gears to some degree, and they looked in very good shape -- no chips, no
excessive wear that I could see. The gear shifting mechanism works smoothly
and offers a range from 30 to 1200 rpm. The spindle is the type that has the
external taper and key (what do you call this??). I couldn't get a very good
look at the inside of the spindle, but it didn't seem to have a taper --
could that be right??

Feedscrew and gears: Unlike other lathes I've seen, this one has the change
gears entirely enclosed with its own oil bath, so I couldn't inspect them
from below. I could not detect any problems when I turned the spindle and
selected different gears, but of course this might not tell me much in any
case. The forward/neutral/reverse seemed to be a bit crochety -- at first I
thought reverse wasn't working, but then tried shifting it again and it
slipped into gear. The keyway on the feedscrew shows appreciable wear over
the first 12" or so. I wish I had enough experience with other lathes to
know how that might compare ...

Carriage: The carriage crank is loose, as I was told, but it all seems to
move smoothly. The compound was not mounted, but as far as I could see
everything was in good shape. However, the tool holder seemed loose even
when tightened down; I would probably try to replace it anyway. The
powerfeed clutch engages easily, and the half-nuts engage with little play.
You pull out the knob (under the crossfeed crank in the last picture) to
select power crossfeed. However, it took a few tries to get it to engage --
it seemed that it was sliding up to the gear, but had to be just so to go
into gear. There is one knob that I don't know what it does -- in the last
picture, you can see it low down on the apron, through the carriage crank
handle. It has a very small shaft. Some kind of oiler??

Tailstock: Seemed to be in good shape. Everything moved smoothly. It has a
#3 MT.

Accessories: Dead center; #3 to #2 MT adapter; Jacobs chuck; steady rest
(missing one of the fingers); taper jig; 3 jaw chuck; 4 jaw chuck;
faceplate. Includes both single phase 2 hp motor and original 3 phase 2 hp
motor. (I could not run either motor -- no power available.)

** Sightglasses: There are three sightglasses, one for the gear head, one
for the change gears, and one for the apron. Every one of these is dark and
distorted. The seller said he used it and just let oil leak around them.

I had a good sense about the seller. He bought the lathe from a community
college and used it for a while in a basement garage. A few years ago he
built a separate garage and turned the basement garage into an office. He
never got the lathe set up in the new garage.

Okay, so here's the question: Would you buy this lathe for around $500,
based on the description above? How much should I worry about the crochety
forward/neutral/reverse and the similarly crochety knob to engage power
crossfeed? How much should I worry about the sightglasses -- can I replace
them easily? And of course, the $64,000 question -- how much bead wear can I
live with? (I'm thinking again about the Klunkers article on the mermac
site!)

Many, many thanks for the input already received and any yet to come!

Andy

What Grant said: looks ok, you will double your investment in it by the
time you get done with minor fixes and tooling. I'd probably buy it for
the $500 in spite of having a nice little Logan sitting in the shop.

Be prepared for some surprises, they always show up. My last lathe ran
OK when I inspected it, wound up needing a new main headstock bearing to
get it to run really smooth. Not a deal breaker but a bit unsettling.

Andrew H. Wakefield wrote:
I saw the Cincinatti Tray-Lathe yesterday. Here are some pictures:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe2.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe3.jpg

The first picture shows most of the lathe from the front; the second is a
closeup of the feedscrew (attempting to show the wear in the keyway, but I
don't think I was overly successful); the third is a closer shot of the
apron and its controls. By the way, in the first and last picture you can
see why it is called a Tray-Lathe -- the top of the headstock is a large
tray, and the top of the tailstock is a small tray.

Here's what I found upon inspecting the lathe:

Bed and ways: There is some wear on the ways (a ridge on the backside at the
top). It was easy to feel with a finger. I don't have enough experience to
judge how much wear this is. There was a very slight film of rust here and
there that rubbed off with a finger. Otherwise, everything seemed to be in
good shape.

Headstock: everything seems to be in good condition with the exception of
the sight glass (see below). No play in the spindle. I was able to inspect
the gears to some degree, and they looked in very good shape -- no chips, no
excessive wear that I could see. The gear shifting mechanism works smoothly
and offers a range from 30 to 1200 rpm. The spindle is the type that has the
external taper and key (what do you call this??). I couldn't get a very good
look at the inside of the spindle, but it didn't seem to have a taper --
could that be right??

Feedscrew and gears: Unlike other lathes I've seen, this one has the change
gears entirely enclosed with its own oil bath, so I couldn't inspect them
from below. I could not detect any problems when I turned the spindle and
selected different gears, but of course this might not tell me much in any
case. The forward/neutral/reverse seemed to be a bit crochety -- at first I
thought reverse wasn't working, but then tried shifting it again and it
slipped into gear. The keyway on the feedscrew shows appreciable wear over
the first 12" or so. I wish I had enough experience with other lathes to
know how that might compare ...

Carriage: The carriage crank is loose, as I was told, but it all seems to
move smoothly. The compound was not mounted, but as far as I could see
everything was in good shape. However, the tool holder seemed loose even
when tightened down; I would probably try to replace it anyway. The
powerfeed clutch engages easily, and the half-nuts engage with little play.
You pull out the knob (under the crossfeed crank in the last picture) to
select power crossfeed. However, it took a few tries to get it to engage --
it seemed that it was sliding up to the gear, but had to be just so to go
into gear. There is one knob that I don't know what it does -- in the last
picture, you can see it low down on the apron, through the carriage crank
handle. It has a very small shaft. Some kind of oiler??

Tailstock: Seemed to be in good shape. Everything moved smoothly. It has a
#3 MT.

Accessories: Dead center; #3 to #2 MT adapter; Jacobs chuck; steady rest
(missing one of the fingers); taper jig; 3 jaw chuck; 4 jaw chuck;
faceplate. Includes both single phase 2 hp motor and original 3 phase 2 hp
motor. (I could not run either motor -- no power available.)

** Sightglasses: There are three sightglasses, one for the gear head, one
for the change gears, and one for the apron. Every one of these is dark and
distorted. The seller said he used it and just let oil leak around them.

I had a good sense about the seller. He bought the lathe from a community
college and used it for a while in a basement garage. A few years ago he
built a separate garage and turned the basement garage into an office. He
never got the lathe set up in the new garage.

Okay, so here's the question: Would you buy this lathe for around $500,
based on the description above? How much should I worry about the crochety
forward/neutral/reverse and the similarly crochety knob to engage power
crossfeed? How much should I worry about the sightglasses -- can I replace
them easily? And of course, the $64,000 question -- how much bead wear can I
live with? (I'm thinking again about the Klunkers article on the mermac
site!)

Many, many thanks for the input already received and any yet to come!

Andy

Hey Andrew,

Pretty hard to go wrong with a Cinci at 500 bucks.

I don't "see" the wear you mention in photo two. What do you think is
worn? It isn't a keyway per se, but rather a "drive" channel. Nothing
fits at all tight into it. I only engages a dog that slides in it all
the time, and used to turn the saddle hand-wheel when you engage the
clutch, so to speak. For thread-cutting, the dog is dis-engaged and
the half-nuts clamp onto the threads of that shaft. I don't see a
thread-dial though, so ask about that.

Why is the compound off? What are the V-belts looped around stuff
for? What power is required to run this (voltage, single phase, amps,
etc)? What is the "tin" guard there for?

No chance of getting a friend with some experience to have a look at
all this? Just be sure that he keeps his hands out of his wallet!!

And what are your plans to get it out of the basement? Maybe offer
him the $500, but that the lathe be FOB his driveway, and to be in the
same good condition as now. Or at least be sure that when you move it
and his house gets damaged, it isn't your problem.

And you may wish to make some sort of a restoration project of this,
but hey...if it was me..... it would be clean it up, lube it up, run
it up, and make chips!!

Take care. Nice Xmas toy.

Happy New Year.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:53:46 -0500, "Andrew H. Wakefield"
wrote:

I saw the Cincinatti Tray-Lathe yesterday. Here are some pictures:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe2.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe3.jpg

The first picture shows most of the lathe from the front; the second is a
closeup of the feedscrew (attempting to show the wear in the keyway, but I
don't think I was overly successful); the third is a closer shot of the
apron and its controls. By the way, in the first and last picture you can
see why it is called a Tray-Lathe -- the top of the headstock is a large
tray, and the top of the tailstock is a small tray.

Here's what I found upon inspecting the lathe:

Bed and ways: There is some wear on the ways (a ridge on the backside at the
top). It was easy to feel with a finger. I don't have enough experience to
judge how much wear this is. There was a very slight film of rust here and
there that rubbed off with a finger. Otherwise, everything seemed to be in
good shape.

Headstock: everything seems to be in good condition with the exception of
the sight glass (see below). No play in the spindle. I was able to inspect
the gears to some degree, and they looked in very good shape -- no chips, no
excessive wear that I could see. The gear shifting mechanism works smoothly
and offers a range from 30 to 1200 rpm. The spindle is the type that has the
external taper and key (what do you call this??). I couldn't get a very good
look at the inside of the spindle, but it didn't seem to have a taper --
could that be right??

Feedscrew and gears: Unlike other lathes I've seen, this one has the change
gears entirely enclosed with its own oil bath, so I couldn't inspect them
from below. I could not detect any problems when I turned the spindle and
selected different gears, but of course this might not tell me much in any
case. The forward/neutral/reverse seemed to be a bit crochety -- at first I
thought reverse wasn't working, but then tried shifting it again and it
slipped into gear. The keyway on the feedscrew shows appreciable wear over
the first 12" or so. I wish I had enough experience with other lathes to
know how that might compare ...

Carriage: The carriage crank is loose, as I was told, but it all seems to
move smoothly. The compound was not mounted, but as far as I could see
everything was in good shape. However, the tool holder seemed loose even
when tightened down; I would probably try to replace it anyway. The
powerfeed clutch engages easily, and the half-nuts engage with little play.
You pull out the knob (under the crossfeed crank in the last picture) to
select power crossfeed. However, it took a few tries to get it to engage --
it seemed that it was sliding up to the gear, but had to be just so to go
into gear. There is one knob that I don't know what it does -- in the last
picture, you can see it low down on the apron, through the carriage crank
handle. It has a very small shaft. Some kind of oiler??

Tailstock: Seemed to be in good shape. Everything moved smoothly. It has a
#3 MT.

Accessories: Dead center; #3 to #2 MT adapter; Jacobs chuck; steady rest
(missing one of the fingers); taper jig; 3 jaw chuck; 4 jaw chuck;
faceplate. Includes both single phase 2 hp motor and original 3 phase 2 hp
motor. (I could not run either motor -- no power available.)

** Sightglasses: There are three sightglasses, one for the gear head, one
for the change gears, and one for the apron. Every one of these is dark and
distorted. The seller said he used it and just let oil leak around them.

I had a good sense about the seller. He bought the lathe from a community
college and used it for a while in a basement garage. A few years ago he
built a separate garage and turned the basement garage into an office. He
never got the lathe set up in the new garage.

Okay, so here's the question: Would you buy this lathe for around $500,
based on the description above? How much should I worry about the crochety
forward/neutral/reverse and the similarly crochety knob to engage power
crossfeed? How much should I worry about the sightglasses -- can I replace
them easily? And of course, the $64,000 question -- how much bead wear can I
live with? (I'm thinking again about the Klunkers article on the mermac
site!)

Many, many thanks for the input already received and any yet to come!

Andy

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:53:46 -0500, "Andrew H. Wakefield"
wrote:

I saw the Cincinatti Tray-Lathe yesterday. Here are some pictures:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe2.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe3.jpg

The first picture shows most of the lathe from the front; the second is a
closeup of the feedscrew (attempting to show the wear in the keyway, but I
don't think I was overly successful); the third is a closer shot of the
apron and its controls. By the way, in the first and last picture you can
see why it is called a Tray-Lathe -- the top of the headstock is a large
tray, and the top of the tailstock is a small tray.

Here's what I found upon inspecting the lathe:

Bed and ways: There is some wear on the ways (a ridge on the backside at the
top). It was easy to feel with a finger. I don't have enough experience to
judge how much wear this is. There was a very slight film of rust here and
there that rubbed off with a finger. Otherwise, everything seemed to be in
good shape.

Headstock: everything seems to be in good condition with the exception of
the sight glass (see below). No play in the spindle. I was able to inspect
the gears to some degree, and they looked in very good shape -- no chips, no
excessive wear that I could see. The gear shifting mechanism works smoothly
and offers a range from 30 to 1200 rpm. The spindle is the type that has the
external taper and key (what do you call this??). I couldn't get a very good
look at the inside of the spindle, but it didn't seem to have a taper --
could that be right??

Feedscrew and gears: Unlike other lathes I've seen, this one has the change
gears entirely enclosed with its own oil bath, so I couldn't inspect them
from below. I could not detect any problems when I turned the spindle and
selected different gears, but of course this might not tell me much in any
case. The forward/neutral/reverse seemed to be a bit crochety -- at first I
thought reverse wasn't working, but then tried shifting it again and it
slipped into gear. The keyway on the feedscrew shows appreciable wear over
the first 12" or so. I wish I had enough experience with other lathes to
know how that might compare ...

Carriage: The carriage crank is loose, as I was told, but it all seems to
move smoothly. The compound was not mounted, but as far as I could see
everything was in good shape. However, the tool holder seemed loose even
when tightened down; I would probably try to replace it anyway. The
powerfeed clutch engages easily, and the half-nuts engage with little play.
You pull out the knob (under the crossfeed crank in the last picture) to
select power crossfeed. However, it took a few tries to get it to engage --
it seemed that it was sliding up to the gear, but had to be just so to go
into gear. There is one knob that I don't know what it does -- in the last
picture, you can see it low down on the apron, through the carriage crank
handle. It has a very small shaft. Some kind of oiler??

Tailstock: Seemed to be in good shape. Everything moved smoothly. It has a
#3 MT.

Accessories: Dead center; #3 to #2 MT adapter; Jacobs chuck; steady rest
(missing one of the fingers); taper jig; 3 jaw chuck; 4 jaw chuck;
faceplate. Includes both single phase 2 hp motor and original 3 phase 2 hp
motor. (I could not run either motor -- no power available.)

** Sightglasses: There are three sightglasses, one for the gear head, one
for the change gears, and one for the apron. Every one of these is dark and
distorted. The seller said he used it and just let oil leak around them.

I had a good sense about the seller. He bought the lathe from a community
college and used it for a while in a basement garage. A few years ago he
built a separate garage and turned the basement garage into an office. He
never got the lathe set up in the new garage.

Okay, so here's the question: Would you buy this lathe for around $500,
based on the description above? How much should I worry about the crochety
forward/neutral/reverse and the similarly crochety knob to engage power
crossfeed? How much should I worry about the sightglasses -- can I replace
them easily? And of course, the $64,000 question -- how much bead wear can I
live with? (I'm thinking again about the Klunkers article on the mermac
site!)

Many, many thanks for the input already received and any yet to come!

Andy


Frankly..for $500 I dont see how you can go wrong. You could part it
out on Ebay for double or triple that amount with the chucks and
whatnot. The stiffness of the various controls is typical of a lathe
that has sat for a while. The oil and spooge tends to set up a bit.
Running it will make things move easier. The bedwear..well...just how
accurate and long are you going to need in making parts? .002? .0002?
You will be cutting a taper. Just how big a taper depends on how much
wear. My old Clausing 13x36 cut a .006 taper over 10", and it had a
bed ridge you could put books on. But it taught me a lot and was just
hunky dorey for smaller parts. Ive loaned it to a friend who does
rough turning and he loves it. Still threads just fine etc.

The sight glasse are still available from various sources, or turn
your own out of a piece of plastic. RTV em in. Or simply cover em
with rtv and check with a dip stick now and then.

The pictures show a nice old lathe that has been moderately well
taken care of, and while not at her prime anymore..is still capable of
teaching you how to turn, and giving you some enjoyment along the
way.

Btw..there should be a thin piece of metal, paralellagram in cross
section..called a "gib" that goes inside the slide on the compound. I
see the compound has been removed..and when that happens, the gib
comes out too. Its pretty important...its what tightens up the
compound. But its pretty easy to make a new one if it got lost.
Generally they are about 1/8" thick and as long as the compound..so
its easy.
But look around for it when you get ready to move it. Just a heads
up.

Personal opinon..that lathe is far far more machine for the buck, than
an equally or worse worn Southbend for the same money and less Stuff.

Go for it.

Gunner


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

I see a taper attachment on it. That alone is worth at least $200.00. The
steady rest has value. I just don't see how you could go wrong with what you
have said. Yes, it may cut a taper, but for short fits you won't even notice
this. Either you learn to step out the diameters or you sand and polish
shafts straight. I have had to do that in shops where the lathe cut straight
then taper near the chuck. Off setting the tail stock will usually be fine
for short shafts. Long shafts you can turn half way and then turn the shaft
around and do the other end. Not all shops have good lathes to work with. I
prefer lathes with a D spindle, I but wouldn't hesitate to buy a lathe with
an L spindle. It looks like a good home shop lathe to me, I would buy it if
I were you. Just on what you have said, if it has the gib for the compound.


"Andrew H. Wakefield" wrote in message
...
I saw the Cincinatti Tray-Lathe yesterday. Here are some pictures:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe2.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe3.jpg

The first picture shows most of the lathe from the front; the second is a
closeup of the feedscrew (attempting to show the wear in the keyway, but I
don't think I was overly successful); the third is a closer shot of the
apron and its controls. By the way, in the first and last picture you can
see why it is called a Tray-Lathe -- the top of the headstock is a large
tray, and the top of the tailstock is a small tray.

Here's what I found upon inspecting the lathe:

Bed and ways: There is some wear on the ways (a ridge on the backside at
the
top). It was easy to feel with a finger. I don't have enough experience to
judge how much wear this is. There was a very slight film of rust here and
there that rubbed off with a finger. Otherwise, everything seemed to be in
good shape.

Headstock: everything seems to be in good condition with the exception of
the sight glass (see below). No play in the spindle. I was able to inspect
the gears to some degree, and they looked in very good shape -- no chips,
no
excessive wear that I could see. The gear shifting mechanism works
smoothly
and offers a range from 30 to 1200 rpm. The spindle is the type that has
the
external taper and key (what do you call this??). I couldn't get a very
good
look at the inside of the spindle, but it didn't seem to have a taper --
could that be right??

Feedscrew and gears: Unlike other lathes I've seen, this one has the
change
gears entirely enclosed with its own oil bath, so I couldn't inspect them
from below. I could not detect any problems when I turned the spindle and
selected different gears, but of course this might not tell me much in any
case. The forward/neutral/reverse seemed to be a bit crochety -- at first
I
thought reverse wasn't working, but then tried shifting it again and it
slipped into gear. The keyway on the feedscrew shows appreciable wear over
the first 12" or so. I wish I had enough experience with other lathes to
know how that might compare ...

Carriage: The carriage crank is loose, as I was told, but it all seems to
move smoothly. The compound was not mounted, but as far as I could see
everything was in good shape. However, the tool holder seemed loose even
when tightened down; I would probably try to replace it anyway. The
powerfeed clutch engages easily, and the half-nuts engage with little
play.
You pull out the knob (under the crossfeed crank in the last picture) to
select power crossfeed. However, it took a few tries to get it to
engage --
it seemed that it was sliding up to the gear, but had to be just so to go
into gear. There is one knob that I don't know what it does -- in the last
picture, you can see it low down on the apron, through the carriage crank
handle. It has a very small shaft. Some kind of oiler??

Tailstock: Seemed to be in good shape. Everything moved smoothly. It has a
#3 MT.

Accessories: Dead center; #3 to #2 MT adapter; Jacobs chuck; steady rest
(missing one of the fingers); taper jig; 3 jaw chuck; 4 jaw chuck;
faceplate. Includes both single phase 2 hp motor and original 3 phase 2 hp
motor. (I could not run either motor -- no power available.)

** Sightglasses: There are three sightglasses, one for the gear head, one
for the change gears, and one for the apron. Every one of these is dark
and
distorted. The seller said he used it and just let oil leak around them.

I had a good sense about the seller. He bought the lathe from a community
college and used it for a while in a basement garage. A few years ago he
built a separate garage and turned the basement garage into an office. He
never got the lathe set up in the new garage.

Okay, so here's the question: Would you buy this lathe for around $500,
based on the description above? How much should I worry about the crochety
forward/neutral/reverse and the similarly crochety knob to engage power
crossfeed? How much should I worry about the sightglasses -- can I replace
them easily? And of course, the $64,000 question -- how much bead wear can
I
live with? (I'm thinking again about the Klunkers article on the mermac
site!)

Many, many thanks for the input already received and any yet to come!

Andy

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:39:39 -0800, Grant Erwin
wrote:

Those are commonly called "Tray Top" lathes. They are solid industrial machines.
If you don't have one, I'd certainly venture $500 on it, although you will spend
much more than that getting it fully tooled and operational. I would caution you
that you should see it run under power in every gear, also you should pull the
flat top to the headstock and examine the gears under a strong light, looking
for flecks of metal in the oil, missing teeth, etc. Also, it's Cincinnati, not
Cincinatti. The spindle is an L-type, they come L-00 through L-3, and yes you'll
be able to find L-type tooling still. There is almost certainly a Morse taper in
the headstock spindle; there should be an adapter with the lathe so you can use
identical lathe centers at both ends. I was never able to find such an adapter
for my Cincinnati so I just got a 5MT lathe center NOS off ebay it was dirt
cheap like five bucks.

Don't even think about doing a full restoration. Clean it, yes. Oil it,
certainly. Find the manual, absolutely. Then just use it. Yes, it's a klunker
but I'd use that lathe a bunch if I had it in my shop.

Grant

What Grant said. Indeed.

Gunner


Andrew H. Wakefield wrote:

I saw the Cincinatti Tray-Lathe yesterday. Here are some pictures:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe2.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe3.jpg

The first picture shows most of the lathe from the front; the second is a
closeup of the feedscrew (attempting to show the wear in the keyway, but I
don't think I was overly successful); the third is a closer shot of the
apron and its controls. By the way, in the first and last picture you can
see why it is called a Tray-Lathe -- the top of the headstock is a large
tray, and the top of the tailstock is a small tray.

Here's what I found upon inspecting the lathe:

Bed and ways: There is some wear on the ways (a ridge on the backside at the
top). It was easy to feel with a finger. I don't have enough experience to
judge how much wear this is. There was a very slight film of rust here and
there that rubbed off with a finger. Otherwise, everything seemed to be in
good shape.

Headstock: everything seems to be in good condition with the exception of
the sight glass (see below). No play in the spindle. I was able to inspect
the gears to some degree, and they looked in very good shape -- no chips, no
excessive wear that I could see. The gear shifting mechanism works smoothly
and offers a range from 30 to 1200 rpm. The spindle is the type that has the
external taper and key (what do you call this??). I couldn't get a very good
look at the inside of the spindle, but it didn't seem to have a taper --
could that be right??

Feedscrew and gears: Unlike other lathes I've seen, this one has the change
gears entirely enclosed with its own oil bath, so I couldn't inspect them
from below. I could not detect any problems when I turned the spindle and
selected different gears, but of course this might not tell me much in any
case. The forward/neutral/reverse seemed to be a bit crochety -- at first I
thought reverse wasn't working, but then tried shifting it again and it
slipped into gear. The keyway on the feedscrew shows appreciable wear over
the first 12" or so. I wish I had enough experience with other lathes to
know how that might compare ...

Carriage: The carriage crank is loose, as I was told, but it all seems to
move smoothly. The compound was not mounted, but as far as I could see
everything was in good shape. However, the tool holder seemed loose even
when tightened down; I would probably try to replace it anyway. The
powerfeed clutch engages easily, and the half-nuts engage with little play.
You pull out the knob (under the crossfeed crank in the last picture) to
select power crossfeed. However, it took a few tries to get it to engage --
it seemed that it was sliding up to the gear, but had to be just so to go
into gear. There is one knob that I don't know what it does -- in the last
picture, you can see it low down on the apron, through the carriage crank
handle. It has a very small shaft. Some kind of oiler??

Tailstock: Seemed to be in good shape. Everything moved smoothly. It has a
#3 MT.

Accessories: Dead center; #3 to #2 MT adapter; Jacobs chuck; steady rest
(missing one of the fingers); taper jig; 3 jaw chuck; 4 jaw chuck;
faceplate. Includes both single phase 2 hp motor and original 3 phase 2 hp
motor. (I could not run either motor -- no power available.)

** Sightglasses: There are three sightglasses, one for the gear head, one
for the change gears, and one for the apron. Every one of these is dark and
distorted. The seller said he used it and just let oil leak around them.

I had a good sense about the seller. He bought the lathe from a community
college and used it for a while in a basement garage. A few years ago he
built a separate garage and turned the basement garage into an office. He
never got the lathe set up in the new garage.

Okay, so here's the question: Would you buy this lathe for around $500,
based on the description above? How much should I worry about the crochety
forward/neutral/reverse and the similarly crochety knob to engage power
crossfeed? How much should I worry about the sightglasses -- can I replace
them easily? And of course, the $64,000 question -- how much bead wear can I
live with? (I'm thinking again about the Klunkers article on the mermac
site!)

Many, many thanks for the input already received and any yet to come!

Andy



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Andrew,

I agree with everything everybody else has said. It might not be
perfect out of the box, but it is a solid machine that you will be happy
with once you have worked out the kinks.

But what are you looking for? What are you going to do with it? I'm
sorry if you have already said. If you are not mechanically inclined,
then this might not be the lathe for you, but then again, you probably
don't what a lathe at all if that is the case. All old tools are an
opportunity to learn.

You can get the sight gages. I had to replace the all of the ones in my
tray-top. I used gasket compound to install them with. The are round
and a simple push fit into a hole. Buy a couple of spares. I used my
spares to replace the ones I installed with a hammer and a block of
wood. ( you should not use a hammer, just push hard )

The spindle taper is L-0. Much better then a threaded spindle. The
inside taper is Morse # 4 1/2. You really want to make sure you get.
The morse #4 1/2 to 3 adapter are tricky to find.

Yes, the last "thing" on the apron is an oiler. The apron is filled
with way oil and it is pumped (manually) up to the cross slide.

Good luck,

Vince



Andrew H. Wakefield wrote:
I saw the Cincinatti Tray-Lathe yesterday. Here are some pictures:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe2.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe3.jpg

The first picture shows most of the lathe from the front; the second is a
closeup of the feedscrew (attempting to show the wear in the keyway, but I
don't think I was overly successful); the third is a closer shot of the
apron and its controls. By the way, in the first and last picture you can
see why it is called a Tray-Lathe -- the top of the headstock is a large
tray, and the top of the tailstock is a small tray.

Here's what I found upon inspecting the lathe:

Bed and ways: There is some wear on the ways (a ridge on the backside at the
top). It was easy to feel with a finger. I don't have enough experience to
judge how much wear this is. There was a very slight film of rust here and
there that rubbed off with a finger. Otherwise, everything seemed to be in
good shape.

Headstock: everything seems to be in good condition with the exception of
the sight glass (see below). No play in the spindle. I was able to inspect
the gears to some degree, and they looked in very good shape -- no chips, no
excessive wear that I could see. The gear shifting mechanism works smoothly
and offers a range from 30 to 1200 rpm. The spindle is the type that has the
external taper and key (what do you call this??). I couldn't get a very good
look at the inside of the spindle, but it didn't seem to have a taper --
could that be right??

Feedscrew and gears: Unlike other lathes I've seen, this one has the change
gears entirely enclosed with its own oil bath, so I couldn't inspect them
from below. I could not detect any problems when I turned the spindle and
selected different gears, but of course this might not tell me much in any
case. The forward/neutral/reverse seemed to be a bit crochety -- at first I
thought reverse wasn't working, but then tried shifting it again and it
slipped into gear. The keyway on the feedscrew shows appreciable wear over
the first 12" or so. I wish I had enough experience with other lathes to
know how that might compare ...

Carriage: The carriage crank is loose, as I was told, but it all seems to
move smoothly. The compound was not mounted, but as far as I could see
everything was in good shape. However, the tool holder seemed loose even
when tightened down; I would probably try to replace it anyway. The
powerfeed clutch engages easily, and the half-nuts engage with little play.
You pull out the knob (under the crossfeed crank in the last picture) to
select power crossfeed. However, it took a few tries to get it to engage --
it seemed that it was sliding up to the gear, but had to be just so to go
into gear. There is one knob that I don't know what it does -- in the last
picture, you can see it low down on the apron, through the carriage crank
handle. It has a very small shaft. Some kind of oiler??

Tailstock: Seemed to be in good shape. Everything moved smoothly. It has a
#3 MT.

Accessories: Dead center; #3 to #2 MT adapter; Jacobs chuck; steady rest
(missing one of the fingers); taper jig; 3 jaw chuck; 4 jaw chuck;
faceplate. Includes both single phase 2 hp motor and original 3 phase 2 hp
motor. (I could not run either motor -- no power available.)

** Sightglasses: There are three sightglasses, one for the gear head, one
for the change gears, and one for the apron. Every one of these is dark and
distorted. The seller said he used it and just let oil leak around them.

I had a good sense about the seller. He bought the lathe from a community
college and used it for a while in a basement garage. A few years ago he
built a separate garage and turned the basement garage into an office. He
never got the lathe set up in the new garage.

Okay, so here's the question: Would you buy this lathe for around $500,
based on the description above? How much should I worry about the crochety
forward/neutral/reverse and the similarly crochety knob to engage power
crossfeed? How much should I worry about the sightglasses -- can I replace
them easily? And of course, the $64,000 question -- how much bead wear can I
live with? (I'm thinking again about the Klunkers article on the mermac
site!)

Many, many thanks for the input already received and any yet to come!

Andy

Asking a metalworking newsgroup if you should buy a $500 lathe is like
asking a barber if you need a haircut. bg

All,

Many thanks as always for the input. I'm going to pick the lathe up Tuesday,
and a friend of mine who is a professional machinist is going with me, so
hopefully he'll spot anything obvious that I might have missed. But your
comments have helped to quell the little nagging voice that was saying, "But
what if this really is a lemon?" -- thanks!

And by the way, I promise to spell it Cincinnati from now on!

Andy

"Andrew H. Wakefield" wrote in message
...
I saw the Cincinatti Tray-Lathe yesterday. Here are some pictures:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe2.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe3.jpg

The first picture shows most of the lathe from the front; the second is a
closeup of the feedscrew (attempting to show the wear in the keyway, but I
don't think I was overly successful); the third is a closer shot of the
apron and its controls. By the way, in the first and last picture you can
see why it is called a Tray-Lathe -- the top of the headstock is a large
tray, and the top of the tailstock is a small tray.

Here's what I found upon inspecting the lathe:

Bed and ways: There is some wear on the ways (a ridge on the backside at
the top). It was easy to feel with a finger. I don't have enough
experience to judge how much wear this is. There was a very slight film of
rust here and there that rubbed off with a finger. Otherwise, everything
seemed to be in good shape.

Headstock: everything seems to be in good condition with the exception of
the sight glass (see below). No play in the spindle. I was able to inspect
the gears to some degree, and they looked in very good shape -- no chips,
no excessive wear that I could see. The gear shifting mechanism works
smoothly and offers a range from 30 to 1200 rpm. The spindle is the type
that has the external taper and key (what do you call this??). I couldn't
get a very good look at the inside of the spindle, but it didn't seem to
have a taper -- could that be right??

Feedscrew and gears: Unlike other lathes I've seen, this one has the
change gears entirely enclosed with its own oil bath, so I couldn't
inspect them from below. I could not detect any problems when I turned the
spindle and selected different gears, but of course this might not tell me
much in any case. The forward/neutral/reverse seemed to be a bit
crochety -- at first I thought reverse wasn't working, but then tried
shifting it again and it slipped into gear. The keyway on the feedscrew
shows appreciable wear over the first 12" or so. I wish I had enough
experience with other lathes to know how that might compare ...

Carriage: The carriage crank is loose, as I was told, but it all seems to
move smoothly. The compound was not mounted, but as far as I could see
everything was in good shape. However, the tool holder seemed loose even
when tightened down; I would probably try to replace it anyway. The
powerfeed clutch engages easily, and the half-nuts engage with little
play. You pull out the knob (under the crossfeed crank in the last
picture) to select power crossfeed. However, it took a few tries to get it
to engage -- it seemed that it was sliding up to the gear, but had to be
just so to go into gear. There is one knob that I don't know what it
does -- in the last picture, you can see it low down on the apron, through
the carriage crank handle. It has a very small shaft. Some kind of oiler??

Tailstock: Seemed to be in good shape. Everything moved smoothly. It has a
#3 MT.

Accessories: Dead center; #3 to #2 MT adapter; Jacobs chuck; steady rest
(missing one of the fingers); taper jig; 3 jaw chuck; 4 jaw chuck;
faceplate. Includes both single phase 2 hp motor and original 3 phase 2 hp
motor. (I could not run either motor -- no power available.)

** Sightglasses: There are three sightglasses, one for the gear head, one
for the change gears, and one for the apron. Every one of these is dark
and distorted. The seller said he used it and just let oil leak around
them.

I had a good sense about the seller. He bought the lathe from a community
college and used it for a while in a basement garage. A few years ago he
built a separate garage and turned the basement garage into an office. He
never got the lathe set up in the new garage.

Okay, so here's the question: Would you buy this lathe for around $500,
based on the description above? How much should I worry about the crochety
forward/neutral/reverse and the similarly crochety knob to engage power
crossfeed? How much should I worry about the sightglasses -- can I replace
them easily? And of course, the $64,000 question -- how much bead wear can
I live with? (I'm thinking again about the Klunkers article on the mermac
site!)

Many, many thanks for the input already received and any yet to come!

Andy

That should drive the price up by another $ 500. The whole point of
selling something cheap is to let someone else deal with the headaches.

Brian Lawson wrote:

And what are your plans to get it out of the basement? Maybe offer
him the $500, but that the lathe be FOB his driveway, and to be in the
same good condition as now. Or at least be sure that when you move it
and his house gets damaged, it isn't your problem.

How are the two of you going to get it out of the basement and into your
shop?

Andrew H. Wakefield wrote:
All,

Many thanks as always for the input. I'm going to pick the lathe up Tuesday,
and a friend of mine who is a professional machinist is going with me, so
hopefully he'll spot anything obvious that I might have missed. But your
comments have helped to quell the little nagging voice that was saying, "But
what if this really is a lemon?" -- thanks!

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:24:08 -0600, Mike Berger
wrote:

That should drive the price up by another $ 500. The whole point of
selling something cheap is to let someone else deal with the headaches.

Brian Lawson wrote:

And what are your plans to get it out of the basement? Maybe offer
him the $500, but that the lathe be FOB his driveway, and to be in the
same good condition as now. Or at least be sure that when you move it
and his house gets damaged, it isn't your problem.

Hey Mike,

Welllllllllllll.....all depends I guess. Friend of mine sold his
really nice 14 X 50. Pretty heavy machine. The guy offered to pay
what he asked OK, then made so many stupid "noises" about how he was
going to get it out of the basement that George said "Don't bother, it
will be in the driveway tomorrow evening." Saved his house a lot he
figures.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Mike, I think I didn't say it very clearly -- the lathe was not in a
basement, but rather (originally) in a basement garage. A few years ago the
seller built a detached garage and moved it in there. Better yet, he never
took it off the dollies he had put it on when he moved it into the new
garage. So the lathe was relatively easy to get. We backed the trailer up to
the garage, swung it down, put down a heavy steel plate. We put chains on
the lathe and pulled it up using a 2-ton hoist. Strapped it securely down,
took it home, eased it back down the trailer into my garage. Jacked it up
and pulled out the dollies. Eventually I'll have to move it back a couple of
feet, but first I needed to have access to the back for cleaning and setting
up the motor & wiring.

Andy

"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
How are the two of you going to get it out of the basement and into your
shop?

Andrew H. Wakefield wrote:
All,

Many thanks as always for the input. I'm going to pick the lathe up
Tuesday, and a friend of mine who is a professional machinist is going
with me, so hopefully he'll spot anything obvious that I might have
missed. But your comments have helped to quell the little nagging voice
that was saying, "But what if this really is a lemon?" -- thanks!

According to Andrew H. Wakefield :

[ ... ]

and pulled out the dollies. Eventually I'll have to move it back a couple of
feet, but first I needed to have access to the back for cleaning and setting
up the motor & wiring.

Keep that space behind it. It is helpful when working with the
taper attachment, and when cleaning the chip tray.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
ervers.com...
According to Andrew H. Wakefield :

[ ... ]

and pulled out the dollies. Eventually I'll have to move it back a couple
of
feet, but first I needed to have access to the back for cleaning and
setting
up the motor & wiring.

Keep that space behind it. It is helpful when working with the
taper attachment, and when cleaning the chip tray.

Yes, I would like to ... but the demands of time-sharing the garage may
require me to move it back at least some. I'll certainly leave enough space
to get to the taper attachment.

Andy

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 09:57:32 -0500, "Andrew H. Wakefield"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
servers.com...
According to Andrew H. Wakefield :

[ ... ]

and pulled out the dollies. Eventually I'll have to move it back a couple
of
feet, but first I needed to have access to the back for cleaning and
setting
up the motor & wiring.

Keep that space behind it. It is helpful when working with the
taper attachment, and when cleaning the chip tray.

Yes, I would like to ... but the demands of time-sharing the garage may
require me to move it back at least some. I'll certainly leave enough space
to get to the taper attachment.

Andy

Or use a step ladder like I do.

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,