On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:39:39 -0800, Grant Erwin
wrote:

Those are commonly called "Tray Top" lathes. They are solid industrial machines.
If you don't have one, I'd certainly venture $500 on it, although you will spend
much more than that getting it fully tooled and operational. I would caution you
that you should see it run under power in every gear, also you should pull the
flat top to the headstock and examine the gears under a strong light, looking
for flecks of metal in the oil, missing teeth, etc. Also, it's Cincinnati, not
Cincinatti. The spindle is an L-type, they come L-00 through L-3, and yes you'll
be able to find L-type tooling still. There is almost certainly a Morse taper in
the headstock spindle; there should be an adapter with the lathe so you can use
identical lathe centers at both ends. I was never able to find such an adapter
for my Cincinnati so I just got a 5MT lathe center NOS off ebay it was dirt
cheap like five bucks.

Don't even think about doing a full restoration. Clean it, yes. Oil it,
certainly. Find the manual, absolutely. Then just use it. Yes, it's a klunker
but I'd use that lathe a bunch if I had it in my shop.

Grant

What Grant said. Indeed.

Gunner


Andrew H. Wakefield wrote:

I saw the Cincinatti Tray-Lathe yesterday. Here are some pictures:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe2.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/TrayLathe3.jpg

The first picture shows most of the lathe from the front; the second is a
closeup of the feedscrew (attempting to show the wear in the keyway, but I
don't think I was overly successful); the third is a closer shot of the
apron and its controls. By the way, in the first and last picture you can
see why it is called a Tray-Lathe -- the top of the headstock is a large
tray, and the top of the tailstock is a small tray.

Here's what I found upon inspecting the lathe:

Bed and ways: There is some wear on the ways (a ridge on the backside at the
top). It was easy to feel with a finger. I don't have enough experience to
judge how much wear this is. There was a very slight film of rust here and
there that rubbed off with a finger. Otherwise, everything seemed to be in
good shape.

Headstock: everything seems to be in good condition with the exception of
the sight glass (see below). No play in the spindle. I was able to inspect
the gears to some degree, and they looked in very good shape -- no chips, no
excessive wear that I could see. The gear shifting mechanism works smoothly
and offers a range from 30 to 1200 rpm. The spindle is the type that has the
external taper and key (what do you call this??). I couldn't get a very good
look at the inside of the spindle, but it didn't seem to have a taper --
could that be right??

Feedscrew and gears: Unlike other lathes I've seen, this one has the change
gears entirely enclosed with its own oil bath, so I couldn't inspect them
from below. I could not detect any problems when I turned the spindle and
selected different gears, but of course this might not tell me much in any
case. The forward/neutral/reverse seemed to be a bit crochety -- at first I
thought reverse wasn't working, but then tried shifting it again and it
slipped into gear. The keyway on the feedscrew shows appreciable wear over
the first 12" or so. I wish I had enough experience with other lathes to
know how that might compare ...

Carriage: The carriage crank is loose, as I was told, but it all seems to
move smoothly. The compound was not mounted, but as far as I could see
everything was in good shape. However, the tool holder seemed loose even
when tightened down; I would probably try to replace it anyway. The
powerfeed clutch engages easily, and the half-nuts engage with little play.
You pull out the knob (under the crossfeed crank in the last picture) to
select power crossfeed. However, it took a few tries to get it to engage --
it seemed that it was sliding up to the gear, but had to be just so to go
into gear. There is one knob that I don't know what it does -- in the last
picture, you can see it low down on the apron, through the carriage crank
handle. It has a very small shaft. Some kind of oiler??

Tailstock: Seemed to be in good shape. Everything moved smoothly. It has a
#3 MT.

Accessories: Dead center; #3 to #2 MT adapter; Jacobs chuck; steady rest
(missing one of the fingers); taper jig; 3 jaw chuck; 4 jaw chuck;
faceplate. Includes both single phase 2 hp motor and original 3 phase 2 hp
motor. (I could not run either motor -- no power available.)

** Sightglasses: There are three sightglasses, one for the gear head, one
for the change gears, and one for the apron. Every one of these is dark and
distorted. The seller said he used it and just let oil leak around them.

I had a good sense about the seller. He bought the lathe from a community
college and used it for a while in a basement garage. A few years ago he
built a separate garage and turned the basement garage into an office. He
never got the lathe set up in the new garage.

Okay, so here's the question: Would you buy this lathe for around $500,
based on the description above? How much should I worry about the crochety
forward/neutral/reverse and the similarly crochety knob to engage power
crossfeed? How much should I worry about the sightglasses -- can I replace
them easily? And of course, the $64,000 question -- how much bead wear can I
live with? (I'm thinking again about the Klunkers article on the mermac
site!)

Many, many thanks for the input already received and any yet to come!

Andy



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner