When mounting a collett chuck on a lathe with a D1-6 mount, just what is
tweaked to get the closer to run true? Is the closer supposed to be pulled
back flush to the lathe spindle plate or ride on the spindles registration
offset? Also, how far are the cams supposed to engage the spuds on the
collett chuck?
I've never used a D anything before and before I screw something up I would
like to be reassured that what I believe needs to be done is correct.
Thanks all,
Dick
--
Richard H. Neighbors
Building and repairing fine billiard cues for real pool players at
affordable prices.
Over 35 years exp. Located in Cincinnati OH
ph.# 513 233-7499
e-mail
web site http://www.dickiecues.com

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:02:55 GMT, "Dick" wrote:

When mounting a collett chuck on a lathe with a D1-6 mount, just what is
tweaked to get the closer to run true? Is the closer supposed to be pulled
back flush to the lathe spindle plate or ride on the spindles registration
offset? Also, how far are the cams supposed to engage the spuds on the
collett chuck?
I've never used a D anything before and before I screw something up I would
like to be reassured that what I believe needs to be done is correct.
Thanks all,
Dick
Dick,
Let me try to get this answer started. Others will correct my
mistakes, I'm sure.

D type mounts seat on the taper, not the back face. The cams pull the
chuck onto the mount. The cams studs are adjustable in the chuck
(usually by screwing them in or out) and should be adjusted so the
cams need to be turned 1/4 to 3/8 turn to lock. Some people seem to
think they need to turn the lock further to get a good seat - not
true.

Accuracy of a D mount is in the tapered mating surface. Indicate the
lathe taper and gently clean any nicks. If it runs out, the spindle
is bent. Then clean and gently deburr the internal taper on the
chuck. If these two surfaces are clean and true, you will get the
best alignment (often within a .0001 or so). Cleanliness and surface
condition of the other parts of the chuck or collet closer will then
be the other places where runnout / wobble can occur.

"Cleanliness is next to high fidelity" Stan Freberg

Karl Pearson

Thanks much. This is what I thought but I didn't want to do anything
until I was sure. The chuck is touching the backing plate on one side. I've
been trying to tighten the other side down tighter but then realized that
that would make it farther out of true. I'll take a slight facing cut off of
the face of the spindle plate so as to give a little clearance.
Thanks again,
Dick

--
Richard H. Neighbors
Building and repairing fine billiard cues for real pool players at
affordable prices.
Over 35 years exp. Located in Cincinnati OH
ph.# 513 233-7499
e-mail
web site http://www.dickiecues.com
"k.pearson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:02:55 GMT, "Dick" wrote:

When mounting a collett chuck on a lathe with a D1-6 mount, just what
is
tweaked to get the closer to run true? Is the closer supposed to be pulled
back flush to the lathe spindle plate or ride on the spindles registration
offset? Also, how far are the cams supposed to engage the spuds on the
collett chuck?
I've never used a D anything before and before I screw something up I
would
like to be reassured that what I believe needs to be done is correct.
Thanks all,
Dick
Dick,
Let me try to get this answer started. Others will correct my
mistakes, I'm sure.

D type mounts seat on the taper, not the back face. The cams pull the
chuck onto the mount. The cams studs are adjustable in the chuck
(usually by screwing them in or out) and should be adjusted so the
cams need to be turned 1/4 to 3/8 turn to lock. Some people seem to
think they need to turn the lock further to get a good seat - not
true.

Accuracy of a D mount is in the tapered mating surface. Indicate the
lathe taper and gently clean any nicks. If it runs out, the spindle
is bent. Then clean and gently deburr the internal taper on the
chuck. If these two surfaces are clean and true, you will get the
best alignment (often within a .0001 or so). Cleanliness and surface
condition of the other parts of the chuck or collet closer will then
be the other places where runnout / wobble can occur.

"Cleanliness is next to high fidelity" Stan Freberg

Karl Pearson

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:45:42 GMT, "Dick" wrote:

Thanks much. This is what I thought but I didn't want to do anything
until I was sure. The chuck is touching the backing plate on one side. I've
been trying to tighten the other side down tighter but then realized that
that would make it farther out of true. I'll take a slight facing cut off of
the face of the spindle plate so as to give a little clearance.
Thanks again,
Dick

Dick,

Before you go cutting anything. I've never seen a D1-6 chuck or face
plate that needed cutting. There have been dings on the face of the
lathe spindle, there have been dings on the face of the taper, there
have been dings on the female face of the chuck,

But, think about it. Both the lathe and the chuck were manufactured
and checked to D1-6 specs. They were designed and manufactured to
work together. Barring true damage, they should do so.

Either one or the other is twisted, dinged or has been damaged. If
you take a cut on the spindle face, you will never be able to fix any
problem that exists.

Indicate, Indicate, Indicate. Find out where the problem is.

If the spindle is bent, it may just be the headstock bearing that is
not properly seated or is worn out (not likely). If the problem is
just that one locking stud is mis adjusted, skinning the lathe face
will just intrduce another problem.

My guess is that the chuck is rocking on some hard to detect bump
somewhere. Use you finger, use you eye, gently run a file on the
non-working surfaces, clean everything and adjust the cams so they are
all tightening the same amount.

Then try different sequences of tightening the cams

If you got a lathe or a chuck that had been redone, and you don't know
it, try putting three small pieces equally spaced on the taper then
mount the chuck. If it seats thern, you know one side of the taper is
too big / small. In the unlikely chance that is true it will take
some time to search out the dimensions and some patience to inpect
them both,

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:37:13 -0500, k.pearson
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:02:55 GMT, "Dick" wrote:

When mounting a collett chuck on a lathe with a D1-6 mount, just what is
tweaked to get the closer to run true? Is the closer supposed to be pulled
back flush to the lathe spindle plate or ride on the spindles registration
offset? Also, how far are the cams supposed to engage the spuds on the
collett chuck?
I've never used a D anything before and before I screw something up I would
like to be reassured that what I believe needs to be done is correct.
Thanks all,
Dick
Dick,
Let me try to get this answer started. Others will correct my
mistakes, I'm sure.

D type mounts seat on the taper, not the back face. The cams pull the
chuck onto the mount. The cams studs are adjustable in the chuck
(usually by screwing them in or out) and should be adjusted so the
cams need to be turned 1/4 to 3/8 turn to lock. Some people seem to
think they need to turn the lock further to get a good seat - not
true.

Accuracy of a D mount is in the tapered mating surface. Indicate the
lathe taper and gently clean any nicks. If it runs out, the spindle
is bent. Then clean and gently deburr the internal taper on the
chuck. If these two surfaces are clean and true, you will get the
best alignment (often within a .0001 or so). Cleanliness and surface
condition of the other parts of the chuck or collet closer will then
be the other places where runnout / wobble can occur.

"Cleanliness is next to high fidelity" Stan Freberg

Karl Pearson
Greetings Karl,
The D mount chuck should contact both the taper AND the back face.
Often times the chuck, faceplate, etc. will have been bored oversize
so that only the back face of the chuck contacts the back face of the
spindle. The chuck should fit such that it requires a little tap to
jar it loose. On the spindle of the lathe there should be two lines at
90 degrees to each other extending radially from the cam tightening
hole. When the camlock is tightened there is a line on the cam that
should fall between the two lines on the spindle. Everything else you
have said about chips, dents, bumps, etc. is absolutely true.
ERS

Eric is absolutely right. BOTH the taper and the back face must be in
contact. I had a similar problem with a new lathe (a big one). They had to
send a new chuck that would seat properly. Do not grind or turn the spindle
face or taper... your lathe will be ruined forever. Small dings can be
removed with a file, or in the case of a hardened spindle, a diamond file.
The tolerances on a camlock chuck are very close. Clean your taper and face
on both chuck and spindle every time you change chucks. It'll same you time
in the long run.

Mark




"Eric R Snow" wrote:

The D mount chuck should contact both the taper AND the back face.
Often times the chuck, faceplate, etc. will have been bored oversize
so that only the back face of the chuck contacts the back face of the
spindle. The chuck should fit such that it requires a little tap to
jar it loose. On the spindle of the lathe there should be two lines at
90 degrees to each other extending radially from the cam tightening
hole. When the camlock is tightened there is a line on the cam that
should fall between the two lines on the spindle. Everything else you
have said about chips, dents, bumps, etc. is absolutely true.
ERS

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:05:17 -0800, Eric R Snow
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:37:13 -0500, k.pearson
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:02:55 GMT, "Dick" wrote:
snip
Greetings Karl,
The D mount chuck should contact both the taper AND the back face.
Often times the chuck, faceplate, etc. will have been bored oversize
so that only the back face of the chuck contacts the back face of the
spindle. The chuck should fit such that it requires a little tap to
jar it loose. On the spindle of the lathe there should be two lines at
90 degrees to each other extending radially from the cam tightening
hole. When the camlock is tightened there is a line on the cam that
should fall between the two lines on the spindle. Everything else you
have said about chips, dents, bumps, etc. is absolutely true.
ERS


Thanks Eric. I knew someone would set me straight. I hadn't heard of
anyone boring a chuck (!) Ugh - bad vibes there. And I'd forgotten
about the lines for the cams - been a few years since I've retired and
I am working from memory.

Karl

k.pearson wrote:

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:05:17 -0800, Eric R Snow
wrote:



On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:37:13 -0500, k.pearson
wrote:



On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:02:55 GMT, "Dick" wrote:


snip


Greetings Karl,
The D mount chuck should contact both the taper AND the back face.
Often times the chuck, faceplate, etc. will have been bored oversize
so that only the back face of the chuck contacts the back face of the
spindle. The chuck should fit such that it requires a little tap to
jar it loose. On the spindle of the lathe there should be two lines at
90 degrees to each other extending radially from the cam tightening
hole. When the camlock is tightened there is a line on the cam that
should fall between the two lines on the spindle. Everything else you
have said about chips, dents, bumps, etc. is absolutely true.
ERS




Thanks Eric. I knew someone would set me straight. I hadn't heard of
anyone boring a chuck (!) Ugh - bad vibes there. And I'd forgotten
about the lines for the cams - been a few years since I've retired and
I am working from memory.


You may want to use some Hi-Spot dye to find out where the chuck is
touching the spindle face. If it is in two spots roughly 180 degrees apart,
the chuck is pretty clearly warped. Assuming it is a 2-part chuck, you
may be able to face it carefully, after removing the pins, or just
replace the
backing plate with a brand new one. You can also use the dye to check
contact between the spindle taper and backplate taper. Many collet chucks
have adjusting screws similar to the Buck Adjust-Tru scheme on 3-jaw
chucks. The backplate mounts to the spindle, the chuck mounts with some
slop to the backplate, and the screws position it radially to dial it in to
perfect center. If you have such a chuck, mount the backplate by it self,
make sure you can mount it repeatably, ignore whether it is perfectly
aligned, and then face the part of the backplate the chuck mounts to.
Then, align the chuck for perfect radial alignment.

Jon

Sorry to take so long to get back to the forum. Actually, there was a
lot of jury rigging done on this lathe. It started out as a Jet 12X40 lathe
with a 2.25X8 threaded backing plate. I bought a Harding Collet Chuck and
collets on e-bay for a good price. I was going to put the chuck on a backing
plate and lock it in place with some set screws so that it wouldn't loosen.
When the chuck arrived it also had the front part of the lathe spindle with
it. Apparently the man just cut it off with a hacksaw. I decided to mount
this D1-6 spindle part onto my lathe so as to make going to a 3 or 4 jaw
would be easier. I trued the back of this spindle up and had a 4"X 1" piece
of steel welded onto the back of this and bored it out to the same size as
bearing retainer that is on the Jets spindle. I then ground out the inside
of this D1-6 spindle to 2.6" as it did have a morse taper in there. Once
this was done I took a pice of 4" round steel stock, bored and threaded it
to fit the spindle on the Jet.I drilled and tapped 4 set screws in this
"bushing". I then screwed it on as tight as I could and turned it down while
mated on the lathe to the same size as the D1-6 spindle bore. Once
everything was mounted and tightened up the D1-6 spindle face appeared to be
running true but the register on the front I could see wasn't real true.When
the Collet closer was mounted it was out of true and I could see light
between the faces on one half and the faces were together on the other half.
What I ended up doing was to make a slight facing cut on the D1-6 spindle
face and then I matched up the angle on the register and cleaned it up till
it was running true. When I mounted the collet chuck this time it now runs
pretty close to dead nuts.
I agree with what you fellows have said about not normally making any
cuts to the spindle facings but in this instance it couldn't hurt anything
as if it wouldn't have worked I could always took everything back off and
went back to my old system.
Thanks again fella's
Dick
--
Richard H. Neighbors
Building and repairing fine billiard cues for real pool players at
affordable prices.
Over 35 years exp. Located in Cincinnati OH
ph.# 513 233-7499
e-mail
web site http://www.dickiecues.com
"k.pearson" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:45:42 GMT, "Dick" wrote:

Thanks much. This is what I thought but I didn't want to do anything
until I was sure. The chuck is touching the backing plate on one side.
I've
been trying to tighten the other side down tighter but then realized that
that would make it farther out of true. I'll take a slight facing cut off
of
the face of the spindle plate so as to give a little clearance.
Thanks again,
Dick

Dick,

Before you go cutting anything. I've never seen a D1-6 chuck or face
plate that needed cutting. There have been dings on the face of the
lathe spindle, there have been dings on the face of the taper, there
have been dings on the female face of the chuck,

But, think about it. Both the lathe and the chuck were manufactured
and checked to D1-6 specs. They were designed and manufactured to
work together. Barring true damage, they should do so.

Either one or the other is twisted, dinged or has been damaged. If
you take a cut on the spindle face, you will never be able to fix any
problem that exists.

Indicate, Indicate, Indicate. Find out where the problem is.

If the spindle is bent, it may just be the headstock bearing that is
not properly seated or is worn out (not likely). If the problem is
just that one locking stud is mis adjusted, skinning the lathe face
will just intrduce another problem.

My guess is that the chuck is rocking on some hard to detect bump
somewhere. Use you finger, use you eye, gently run a file on the
non-working surfaces, clean everything and adjust the cams so they are
all tightening the same amount.

Then try different sequences of tightening the cams

If you got a lathe or a chuck that had been redone, and you don't know
it, try putting three small pieces equally spaced on the taper then
mount the chuck. If it seats thern, you know one side of the taper is
too big / small. In the unlikely chance that is true it will take
some time to search out the dimensions and some patience to inpect
them both,