I'm looking for a mill for my home shop. I've passed up a few
great deals on Bridgeports (and a really nice hardinge lathe)
because my shop is located in the basement. It's dry, there's
lots of headroom, and it has a nice concrete floor. But it's
still downstairs. I'm trying to limit any machines that go
downstairs to 1000 pounds or so (per subassembly if they can
be disassembled without a lot of trouble!).

I want something better than the mill/drill units, something with
more stability and precision. I'll be working with mostly softer
metals, fabricating parts for small engines and projects.

I was considering the following three mills from Grizzly and
wondered if anybody had experience with them:

G3102 It's 915 pounds and looks almost like a real mill, only
smaller! $ 1800

G6760 At 1701 pounds it's definitely a stretch, and at $ 2700
it's at the high end of my price range, but it might be feasible
if it's substantially better.

G3616 This looks more like a Bridgeport than the others, and it's
even a little cheaper at $ 3400, but weighs 1996 pounds, and if
it doesn't break down into a few pieces it's probably too big.

I freely acknowledge the superiority of a lot of the older US made
machinery (thus the Clausing 5400 series lathe instead of the
Grizzly, Enco, et. al. alternatives) but my primary limitation is
that the equipment has to get down to the basement safely.

Comments on the above machines, or suggested alternatives, are
welcome.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...emnumber=G0519

is the one to get.

Known as square colum mill, it is easily CNC-able,
sold by 5 or 6 outlets, in both 120v and 240v, incl
3 phase.

Loads of horse power and it is BIG. Check out
http://www.industrialhobbies.com/ - there's a nice
write up as to why it is a good choice for ya

Mike Berger wrote:

I'm looking for a mill for my home shop. I've passed up a few
great deals on Bridgeports (and a really nice hardinge lathe)
because my shop is located in the basement. It's dry, there's
lots of headroom, and it has a nice concrete floor. But it's
still downstairs. I'm trying to limit any machines that go
downstairs to 1000 pounds or so (per subassembly if they can
be disassembled without a lot of trouble!).



Why?

Why not take the time to change around those "steps" that go down to
that basement so that they are removable? Then you can set up a
permanent or temporary hoist assembly over the "pit". Now you can take
up and down almost anything you like at will.

If you disguise the whole thing appropriately it will look like part of
the house and get good WAF (Wife Approval Factor) rating! :- )

The other option is to create a nice metal floor assembly that you can
do a similar trick with (lifting done with a hoist or two - electric
being kewl). The advantage to the liftable floor is that you can stow
the hoist mounts only a foot or so above the top lift level, making the
thing stealth...

An appropriate use of pipes (etc...) for the "floor" to "track" on will
inprove the handling and safety aspects... you can use the "deadman"
elevator brake trick too, so if the hoist cable/chain gives up the thing
won't hurtle to the floor at high speed...

For extra protection, some auto (truck) coil springs around said pipes
assuming the required extra depth of the pit will add another layer of
"soft landing" safety...

Go for it.


_-_-bear

Take a look at the Shopmaster machine at www.shoptask.com its as good a
mill as those you mentioned, plus you get a lathe as well- weighs in at
about 1000#


"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a mill for my home shop. I've passed up a few
great deals on Bridgeports (and a really nice hardinge lathe)
because my shop is located in the basement. It's dry, there's
lots of headroom, and it has a nice concrete floor. But it's
still downstairs. I'm trying to limit any machines that go
downstairs to 1000 pounds or so (per subassembly if they can
be disassembled without a lot of trouble!).

I want something better than the mill/drill units, something with
more stability and precision. I'll be working with mostly softer
metals, fabricating parts for small engines and projects.

I was considering the following three mills from Grizzly and
wondered if anybody had experience with them:

G3102 It's 915 pounds and looks almost like a real mill, only
smaller! $ 1800

G6760 At 1701 pounds it's definitely a stretch, and at $ 2700
it's at the high end of my price range, but it might be feasible
if it's substantially better.

G3616 This looks more like a Bridgeport than the others, and it's
even a little cheaper at $ 3400, but weighs 1996 pounds, and if
it doesn't break down into a few pieces it's probably too big.

I freely acknowledge the superiority of a lot of the older US made
machinery (thus the Clausing 5400 series lathe instead of the
Grizzly, Enco, et. al. alternatives) but my primary limitation is
that the equipment has to get down to the basement safely.

Comments on the above machines, or suggested alternatives, are
welcome.

Mike Berger wrote:

I'm looking for a mill for my home shop. I've passed up a few
great deals on Bridgeports (and a really nice hardinge lathe)
because my shop is located in the basement. It's dry, there's
lots of headroom, and it has a nice concrete floor. But it's
still downstairs. I'm trying to limit any machines that go
downstairs to 1000 pounds or so (per subassembly if they can
be disassembled without a lot of trouble!).

I want something better than the mill/drill units, something with
more stability and precision. I'll be working with mostly softer
metals, fabricating parts for small engines and projects.

I was considering the following three mills from Grizzly and
wondered if anybody had experience with them:

G3102 It's 915 pounds and looks almost like a real mill, only
smaller! $ 1800

G6760 At 1701 pounds it's definitely a stretch, and at $ 2700
it's at the high end of my price range, but it might be feasible
if it's substantially better.

G3616 This looks more like a Bridgeport than the others, and it's
even a little cheaper at $ 3400, but weighs 1996 pounds, and if
it doesn't break down into a few pieces it's probably too big.

I freely acknowledge the superiority of a lot of the older US made
machinery (thus the Clausing 5400 series lathe instead of the
Grizzly, Enco, et. al. alternatives) but my primary limitation is
that the equipment has to get down to the basement safely.

Comments on the above machines, or suggested alternatives, are
welcome.

Get the Bridgeport, you won't regret it.

Safely rigging a 1,000# mill into a basement and safely rigging a 3,000#
mill into a basement are just about the same. The Bridgeport will
readily breakdown into base, head and table sections that are relatively
easy to handle with suitable rigging. Lathes can usually be broken down
into a few manageable sections as well.

Pete C.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:04:48 -0600, Mike Berger
wrote:

I'm looking for a mill for my home shop. I've passed up a few
great deals on Bridgeports (and a really nice hardinge lathe)
because my shop is located in the basement. It's dry, there's
lots of headroom, and it has a nice concrete floor. But it's
still downstairs. I'm trying to limit any machines that go
downstairs to 1000 pounds or so (per subassembly if they can
be disassembled without a lot of trouble!).

I want something better than the mill/drill units, something with
more stability and precision. I'll be working with mostly softer
metals, fabricating parts for small engines and projects.

I was considering the following three mills from Grizzly and
wondered if anybody had experience with them:

G3102 It's 915 pounds and looks almost like a real mill, only
smaller! $ 1800

G6760 At 1701 pounds it's definitely a stretch, and at $ 2700
it's at the high end of my price range, but it might be feasible
if it's substantially better.

G3616 This looks more like a Bridgeport than the others, and it's
even a little cheaper at $ 3400, but weighs 1996 pounds, and if
it doesn't break down into a few pieces it's probably too big.

I freely acknowledge the superiority of a lot of the older US made
machinery (thus the Clausing 5400 series lathe instead of the
Grizzly, Enco, et. al. alternatives) but my primary limitation is
that the equipment has to get down to the basement safely.

Comments on the above machines, or suggested alternatives, are
welcome.

Suggestion #1

Unless its a totally hammered piece of ****, priced far beyond what
you can afford...never pass up a Hardinge.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:04:48 -0600, Mike Berger
wrote:

Having read the usual responses, nothing that could be considered
unusual, or practical without more information.

Comments on the above machines, or suggested alternatives, are
welcome.
KBC has an A1-s size mill that breaks down into pieces that two people
can carry nicely. Smaller than a Bridgeport, but still a knee mill,
and with more knee travel than the same size from Grizzly. Total
weight is 960 pounds. 20" max spindle to table.

Model number is VM-22-R8 Part number is 6-380-002

Good solid little machine, I have one, haven't regretted buying it.
2003/2004 catalog price is $2450, not a bad buy.

Rich

In article , Gunner Asch says...

Unless its a totally hammered piece of ****, priced far beyond what
you can afford...never pass up a Hardinge.

Step 1) purchase hardinge inexpensively.

2) sell for more money than you paid for it.

3) purchase brand new bridgeport and

4) hire riggers to install in basement!

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
| I'm looking for a mill for my home shop. I've passed up a few
| great deals on Bridgeports (and a really nice hardinge lathe)
| because my shop is located in the basement. It's dry, there's
| lots of headroom, and it has a nice concrete floor. But it's
| still downstairs. I'm trying to limit any machines that go
| downstairs to 1000 pounds or so (per subassembly if they can
| be disassembled without a lot of trouble!).
|
| I want something better than the mill/drill units, something with
| more stability and precision. I'll be working with mostly softer
| metals, fabricating parts for small engines and projects.
|
| I was considering the following three mills from Grizzly and
| wondered if anybody had experience with them:
|
| G3102 It's 915 pounds and looks almost like a real mill, only
| smaller! $ 1800

Looks a whole lot like the HF 40939 at $1600, except that the HF motor
is 2 hp, supposedly. Might be a big difference in shipping, since you can
buy one right from a store instead of shipping it.

On 12 Dec 2005 20:29:47 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner Asch says...

Unless its a totally hammered piece of ****, priced far beyond what
you can afford...never pass up a Hardinge.

Step 1) purchase hardinge inexpensively.

2) sell for more money than you paid for it.

3) purchase brand new bridgeport and

4) hire riggers to install in basement!

Jim


Bingo!

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Look at a used Clausing 8520.

--
Accidental creation should not be taught as a fact.
Intelligent creation should not be banned from teachings as
unconstitutional.

Gunner said:

On 12 Dec 2005 20:29:47 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner Asch says...

Unless its a totally hammered piece of ****, priced far beyond what
you can afford...never pass up a Hardinge.

Step 1) purchase hardinge inexpensively.

2) sell for more money than you paid for it.

3) purchase brand new bridgeport and

4) hire riggers to install in basement!

Jim

Bingo!

Gunner

The main questions when rigging a mill into a basement a 1. How big
are your helpers? and 2. Do you have a straight shot from outside and
directly down the stairs without any turns, which would allow you to
winch it down?

Helpers are great for things like the table, etc., which you may remove
for clearance. If you can line-up a winch, or somehow position a
snatch block (or blocks) to accomplish the same, it can make a
difficult job into a relativly easy one.

Alternate to the winch might be a suitably sized chain fall or
come-along.

Don't even think about trying to hold back even 1000# without some kind
of mechanical leverage.

Just watch out for everyone's fingers.

dennis
in nca

Rich

KBC has an A1-s size mill that breaks down into pieces that two people
can carry nicely.

Link or a web site?

Bob AZ

"Gunner Asch"
Unless its a totally hammered piece of ****, priced far beyond what
you can afford...never pass up a Hardinge.

Step 1) purchase hardinge inexpensively.

2) sell for more money than you paid for it.

3) purchase brand new bridgeport and

4) hire riggers to install in basement!

Problem with that idea is that if the hardinge is so good, you won't find
one that inexpensive-
Trying to rig some monster into your basement is an invitation to all sorts
of disasters-
Find something new, with a warranty that you can afford and is small enough
to move into your basement, then spend your time using the tool for the
projects you have, which was the whole point of buying a mill in the first
place.

On 12 Dec 2005 22:30:42 -0800, "Bob AZ" wrote:

Rich

KBC has an A1-s size mill that breaks down into pieces that two people
can carry nicely.

Link or a web site?

http://www.kbctools.com/usa/main.cfm

Follow the menu.

(.pdf , Dammit. Page2.)

Still $2450

Rich

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:27:06 GMT, "EdFielder"
wrote:

Problem with that idea is that if the hardinge is so good, you won't find
one that inexpensive-

Demand for Hardinge is high, therefore, so are prices. They're solid,
they should be, the weight is almost up there with a Bridgeport.

Trying to rig some monster into your basement is an invitation to all sorts
of disasters-

Getting large machines down stairs is hairy at best. Advising people
to modify the house, maybe some people don't do math. Spending $5k to
modify the house so you can get a $1200 machine into the basement
somehow doesn't make sense. Then it's probably 3 phase, more expense.
Someday you might want it out, still more expense and if you're
selling the home, (Assuming you own it.), taking the modification out
for the buyer, more expense. Somehow the logic escapes me. If you
don't own the house, modifying might lead to problems you don't want,
far beyond the cost of getting the machine down.

Rich

Richard wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:27:06 GMT, "EdFielder"
wrote:

Problem with that idea is that if the hardinge is so good, you won't find
one that inexpensive-

Demand for Hardinge is high, therefore, so are prices. They're solid,
they should be, the weight is almost up there with a Bridgeport.

Trying to rig some monster into your basement is an invitation to all sorts
of disasters-

Getting large machines down stairs is hairy at best.

It's only hairy if you don't understand rigging. If you understand what
you're trying to do it's pretty straightforward. The key is to
think/measure/plan several times before ever attempting the actual move.
I've moved a 10,000# shipping container by myself with nothing more than
a high lift jack, some chains/slings/shackles and some small logs.

Advising people
to modify the house, maybe some people don't do math. Spending $5k to
modify the house so you can get a $1200 machine into the basement
somehow doesn't make sense.

We aren't talking a 16,000# VMC here, we're talking a 2,500# or so
Bridgeport knee mill. I don't think I've seen any house that has
sufficient headroom in the basement for a Bridgeport, where rigging one
down into the basement would require and modification to the house.

Then it's probably 3 phase, more expense.

Not really, $20 home built rotary phase converter or $200 VFD if you
want to go all out.

Someday you might want it out, still more expense and if you're
selling the home, (Assuming you own it.), taking the modification out
for the buyer, more expense.

Again no modifications necessary. I take it you're the kind of person
who buys the Volvo because you're afraid of the safety of other cars and
who checks the distance to the hospital before buying a house because
you might need to go there.

You may also be hit by a bus tomorrow and never have to worry about
selling anything. If you worry and procrastinate all the time instead of
just getting the damn tools you need to enjoy yourself you're running
the risk of living an unfulfilled life.

Pete C.


Somehow the logic escapes me. If you
don't own the house, modifying might lead to problems you don't want,
far beyond the cost of getting the machine down.

Rich

Mike Berger wrote:
I'm looking for a mill for my home shop. I've passed up a few

I advise you to find a nice rockwell vertical mill. They are very
similar in size to the clausing 8520 but they use R8 tooling.
The mill will break down into pieces small enough to move into
the basement by two people with a refrigerator dolly.
Rockwell made a vertical and horizontal mill that look like
twins. They are in fact almost identical except the column on
the horizontal contains the horizonal spindle. It is possible to
find a combo mill. Two mills in one (horizontal and vertical) is
very useful. The only downside is pulling the vertical head off
to put in the overarm. Reguardless it is still a very setup.

My first mill was a jet JMD-18. It was also disassembled and moved
into my basement. It is just as much work to move as the rockwell
vertical mill. This mill drill has a large work envelope which is
the only reason I keep it after buying the rockwell mill.
I would opt for a small knee mill over a mill drill any day!

It is also possbile to move a clausing 12 inch lathe or rockwell
lathe this way. I have helped move both. Both are nice machine.

chuck

Bob AZ wrote:
Rich

KBC has an A1-s size mill that breaks down into pieces that two people
can carry nicely.

Link or a web site?

Bob AZ



FInd a nice, short tabel[32 inch] short knee[9 inch] step pulley
bridgeport, they weigh maybe 2000lbs complete. pull the head, maybe the
turret or table, and it is as light as the others you are considering.

It is a sweet machine, much nicer than the monsters we tend to buy 'just
in case I need the travel"

Richard wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:04:48 -0600, Mike Berger
wrote:

Having read the usual responses, nothing that could be considered
unusual, or practical without more information.

Comments on the above machines, or suggested alternatives, are
welcome.

KBC has an A1-s size mill that breaks down into pieces that two people
can carry nicely. Smaller than a Bridgeport, but still a knee mill,
and with more knee travel than the same size from Grizzly. Total
weight is 960 pounds. 20" max spindle to table.

Model number is VM-22-R8 Part number is 6-380-002

Good solid little machine, I have one, haven't regretted buying it.
2003/2004 catalog price is $2450, not a bad buy.

Rich
I agree. I have the same KBC model A1S mill, and I'm pleased with it.
The A1S mills are a fine alternative if you don't have the room for a
BP. The Clausing mills are also worth considering, though smaller yet
than an A1S.

Dan Mitchell
============

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:08:25 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:


Again no modifications necessary. I take it you're the kind of person
who buys the Volvo because you're afraid of the safety of other cars and
who checks the distance to the hospital before buying a house because
you might need to go there.

IF I was, I wouldn't have three lathes, up to 12X36, the mentioned KBC
mill, and many other machines in my basement. All of which were
purchased keeping in mind that first, I'm going to have little help
getting it down my admittedly weak stairway, second, I'm going to have
to put it together with little help. Last, I still have to be able to
move around after it's down there. A mill with a 4 foot table would
be nice, but that also requires 8 feet of clear space to effectively
use. Cramped and cluttered workspace is an accident waiting to
happen.

Based on the information given by the OP, and not making any
ASSumptions, any other suggestions are not practical, only personal
opinion, worth what you were paid for them. Logic should tell you
that you know nothing beyond the 1000 pounds that was stated, anything
beyond that is ASSumption and worthless. Most people know their
situation a lot better than you ever will.

Rich

Richard wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:08:25 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:


Again no modifications necessary. I take it you're the kind of person
who buys the Volvo because you're afraid of the safety of other cars and
who checks the distance to the hospital before buying a house because
you might need to go there.

IF I was, I wouldn't have three lathes, up to 12X36, the mentioned KBC
mill, and many other machines in my basement. All of which were
purchased keeping in mind that first, I'm going to have little help
getting it down my admittedly weak stairway, second, I'm going to have
to put it together with little help. Last, I still have to be able to
move around after it's down there. A mill with a 4 foot table would
be nice, but that also requires 8 feet of clear space to effectively
use. Cramped and cluttered workspace is an accident waiting to
happen.

Based on the information given by the OP, and not making any
ASSumptions, any other suggestions are not practical, only personal
opinion, worth what you were paid for them. Logic should tell you
that you know nothing beyond the 1000 pounds that was stated, anything
beyond that is ASSumption and worthless. Most people know their
situation a lot better than you ever will.

Rich

The OP clearly indicated he had a basement with lots of headroom so that
would not be an issue. He didn't indicate any space constraints either
so since a bench top mill doesn't take that much less of a footprint
than a Bridgeport space is likely not an issue.

The one issue the OP indicated was weight, and he further qualified this
as 1,000# or so "per subassembly if they can
be disassembled without a lot of trouble". A full sized Bridgeport when
easily broken down into head, table and base sections is quite close to
this specification with the base section being perhaps 1,500# without
the head or table. Further the disassembly and reassembly of a
Bridgeport can be handled by one person with a hydraulic engine hoist
and one 4' sling (I've done it multiple times myself).

The bottom line being that a full sized Bridgeport would provide more
capability and higher quality than a small bench top import mill and
pretty much meets the OP's spec of 1,000# or so per easy subassembly.

Pete C.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:06:51 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Richard wrote:


The OP clearly indicated he had a basement with lots of headroom so that
would not be an issue. He didn't indicate any space constraints either
so since a bench top mill doesn't take that much less of a footprint
than a Bridgeport space is likely not an issue.

Nor did he state there weren't any. Assume nothing. When someone
doesn't have space/weight constraints, they normally don't specify
"small mill".

Putting my KBC together with limited headspace was all kinds of fun,
just imagine how much more fun it would be with even less headspace,
more weight, and no place to use a hoist. Bridgeports were made to be
put in shops with high ceilings, not for trying to squeeze in
someone's basement. Possibly it could be done safely, but more often
than not, it won't be.

As far a quality issues, there are two of us here that own the KBC,
and we're not having any problems, against you, who doesn't own one,
that says there are. Methinks maybe I smell rotten fish?

The KBC also isn't a bench mill. For someone that needs a small mill,
I can recommend it without hesitation.

Rich (Who will now "plonk" this thread.)

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:08:25 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

You may also be hit by a bus tomorrow and never have to worry about
selling anything. If you worry and procrastinate all the time instead of
just getting the damn tools you need to enjoy yourself you're running
the risk of living an unfulfilled life.

Pete C.


Probably one of the most sage pieces of advice Ive seen here in a long
time

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

There are other alternatives, if one looks around a bit

http://cgi.ebay.com/KAO-FONG-MODEL-K...QQcmdZViewItem

Ive seen this mill. Quite interesting

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Richard wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:06:51 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Richard wrote:


The OP clearly indicated he had a basement with lots of headroom so that
would not be an issue. He didn't indicate any space constraints either
so since a bench top mill doesn't take that much less of a footprint
than a Bridgeport space is likely not an issue.

Nor did he state there weren't any. Assume nothing. When someone
doesn't have space/weight constraints, they normally don't specify
"small mill".

He specified plenty of headroom and about 1,000# per subsection and a
Bridgeport fits that spec.


Putting my KBC together with limited headspace was all kinds of fun,
just imagine how much more fun it would be with even less headspace,
more weight, and no place to use a hoist. Bridgeports were made to be
put in shops with high ceilings, not for trying to squeeze in
someone's basement. Possibly it could be done safely, but more often
than not, it won't be.

I assembled my Bridgeport, a 1J on a round ram base, in a basement with
a 7' ceiling, by myself using a hydraulic engine hoist and sling, with
no issues whatsoever. I also disassembled the same myself in the same
manner when moving, again with no issues. I recall seeing some weight
specs somewhere with the base at about 1,200#, and the ram/head and
table sections each well under 1,000#


As far a quality issues, there are two of us here that own the KBC,
and we're not having any problems, against you, who doesn't own one,
that says there are. Methinks maybe I smell rotten fish?

I specified higher quality than a small bench top import mill. I stand
100% behind this statement as a non-beat-to-death Bridgeport will beat
any bench top import mill I have ever seen. I have not seen the KBC and
can not make a comparison to it, but I'm pretty sure that it's quality
does not exceed that of a Bridgeport.

The KBC may well be a decent machine, however that is not relevant to my
point. My point is that a full sized Bridgeport does indeed meet the
specifications indicated by the OP. I expect the OP did not realize how
easily a Bridgeport can be disassembled into the nominal 1,000# parts.


The KBC also isn't a bench mill. For someone that needs a small mill,
I can recommend it without hesitation.

I never said the KBC was a bench mill or that it was bad.


Rich (Who will now "plonk" this thread.)

Plonk away bud, you've not made a single legitimate argument to any of
my statements.

Pete C.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:52 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

There are other alternatives, if one looks around a bit

http://cgi.ebay.com/KAO-FONG-MODEL-K...QQcmdZViewItem

Ive seen this mill. Quite interesting

His UPS guy must be an ex-sumo wrestler. From the auction:

"We send via UPS Ground Domestic and USPS for International. No PO
Boxes, no exceptions. "

Is that in one box or two? titter


--
STOP LIVING LIKE VEAL
-----------------------
http://diversify.com Veal-free Websites

You take one lousy week off to join Thorax at the Elvis concert, and this
is what happens: "Pete C." writes on Tue, 13 Dec 2005
15:08:25 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

You may also be hit by a bus tomorrow and never have to worry about
selling anything. If you worry and procrastinate all the time instead of
just getting the damn tools you need to enjoy yourself you're running
the risk of living an unfulfilled life.

Pete C.

"Wisdom"

Years ago, friend ask me for advice about returning to college, seeing
as how she had a life threatening illness. I said "Go! You could be dead
in five years, but then again you might live. And if you don't die, you
will have your degree, and can pick up from there."

That was over fifteen years ago. She still is not in tip-top health,
but who of us really is? Re-married too.


tschus
pyotr



--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

And don't forget the stairs - are they strong enough ?
Is the landing at the bottom large enough ?
Is the floor at the top strong enough ? before the stairs... to the stars...

Dad did his lathe because the house movers no-billed it. I don't blame the sofa mover types -
Dad grew up on a farm - horses and horses for brute power. Large pure bred Morgans.

He used his winch - a very large electric - to let it down a fortified stair - but
then he was as much as a rigger.

When you get a rigger - make sure they know what they are expected to do BEFORE agreeing.
You might have the wrong type of rigger. You want them to come with the correct equipment.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



rigger wrote:
Gunner said:

On 12 Dec 2005 20:29:47 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:


In article , Gunner Asch says...


Unless its a totally hammered piece of ****, priced far beyond what
you can afford...never pass up a Hardinge.


Step 1) purchase hardinge inexpensively.


2) sell for more money than you paid for it.


3) purchase brand new bridgeport and


4) hire riggers to install in basement!


Jim


Bingo!


Gunner


The main questions when rigging a mill into a basement a 1. How big
are your helpers? and 2. Do you have a straight shot from outside and
directly down the stairs without any turns, which would allow you to
winch it down?

Helpers are great for things like the table, etc., which you may remove
for clearance. If you can line-up a winch, or somehow position a
snatch block (or blocks) to accomplish the same, it can make a
difficult job into a relativly easy one.

Alternate to the winch might be a suitably sized chain fall or
come-along.

Don't even think about trying to hold back even 1000# without some kind
of mechanical leverage.

Just watch out for everyone's fingers.

dennis
in nca


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Martin said:

When you get a rigger - make sure they know what they are expected to do BEFORE agreeing.
You might have the wrong type of rigger. You want them to come with
the correct equipment.

The MOST important thing to remember when checking out a company doing
rigging is : GET A COPY OF THEIR CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE.

With the proper insurance you'll usually find they're a legitimate
company; no legitimate company will subject you, or themselfs, to the
risk of NOT having insurance.

They should be able to show you proof of: 1. Liability insurance
including medical liability. 2. Property damage insurance covering
machinery. 3. Workers Compensation insurance.

The value of the first two are self evident, the last even more
serious. If a worker were to be injured and the employer not have
insurance you may find yourself (and maybe your insurance company)
holding the bag. This could amount to a VERY large amount of money the
way the courts are handing it out these days.

Ask for, and receive, a current certificate of insurance BEFORE giving
out the job.

I used to tell my customers the main difference between riggers moving
machinery and a company, or individual, moving machinery was insurance.
I still stand behind that statement.

dennis
in nca

Richard wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:06:51 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:


Richard wrote:


The OP clearly indicated he had a basement with lots of headroom so that
would not be an issue. He didn't indicate any space constraints either
so since a bench top mill doesn't take that much less of a footprint
than a Bridgeport space is likely not an issue.


Nor did he state there weren't any. Assume nothing. When someone
doesn't have space/weight constraints, they normally don't specify
"small mill".

Putting my KBC together with limited headspace was all kinds of fun,
just imagine how much more fun it would be with even less headspace,
more weight, and no place to use a hoist. Bridgeports were made to be
put in shops with high ceilings, not for trying to squeeze in
someone's basement. Possibly it could be done safely, but more often
than not, it won't be.

As far a quality issues, there are two of us here that own the KBC,
and we're not having any problems, against you, who doesn't own one,
that says there are. Methinks maybe I smell rotten fish?

The KBC also isn't a bench mill. For someone that needs a small mill,
I can recommend it without hesitation.

Rich (Who will now "plonk" this thread.)
Indeed, the KBC, and many other 'A1S' mills are 'floor' mills and not
'bench' mills.

"A1S' mills DO come in both versions, however. The floor versions are
much like the popular Clausing 8000 series mills, but larger and heavier
overall. The heads are similar on all I've seen, but the floor models
have longer columns and larger tables than the bench versions. The
Grizzly version is sort of half way between, with a medium column height
and a low base cabinet. The KBC version has the longest column of the
many makes I have seen ... that means the greatest head to table clearance.

They are NOT the equivalent to a BP, even a BP clone, but they are nice
little knee mills, and lot more capable than the common mill-drills.

I also have a Benchmaster mill. The Benchmaster is a nice little bench
mill, but does NOT compare to the A1S in size or capability. It's half
the size and weight of my KBC A1S.

Dan Mitchell
============