"habbi" wrote in message
...
Yes it has the aluminum wheels, I tried my father in laws gun which is
rated
at 425ftlbs and they came off with it agian mine was only rated at 380
ftlbs.

Thank you for the follow up.




"Paul T." wrote in message
...
Habbi-

I've got a Chevy 1/2 ton that also has a left rear wheel I haven't been
able
to get off with a Ingersol-Rand 1/2" impact wrench. The right rear came
off,
but only after a lot of time with full force on the impact.

The last time the wheels were torqued was at a tire shop, so they may
have
hit them too hard in my case.

However, I have aluminum wheels on my truck and I'm wondering if an
interaction between the steel lug nuts and aluminum wheels has caused
them
to "corrode weld" together, does your truck have aluminum wheels also?

Paul T.

That is funny, the friends gun I borrowed to try was a Chicago pneumatic
734H
http://212.75.80.201/CPIndustrialSit...asp?Id=T024351
and it seems weaker than my CH. I just checked their website and it is rated
at 576 ftlbs max. He got it used, it must be worn out.

"B.B." u wrote in message
news
In article ,
"habbi" wrote:

I have what I thought was a decent quality cambell hausfeld 1/2" gun
which
is rated at 380 ftlbs. All fitting are 1/4" M style and hose is 25' 3/8"
ID.
It will not remove my lug nuts from my chev 1/2 ton truck. I tried
pressures
from 90 up to 120 psi with no luck. It removed a few of them but some
will
not loosen at all. I am using 1/2" drive impact sockets as well. Anyway
are
these guns over rated, it is made in Taiwan. I noticed some ingersoll
rand
and even sears brands rated up to 600-700 ftlbs, is this what I need. I
tried a friends Chicago pneumatic and it would not spin the nuts either.
Also there is an Allen set screw type plug in the side of the gun and it
says oil, how do you know how much to put in? Thanks

One thing about impact guns is that a loose/worn socket or a worn nut
will cause a lot of bounce. You'll jiggle the socket around a whole
lot, and get it warm, but never get anywhere. A way to counteract it is
to violate the safety warnings and grab the socket by hand (I wear a
leather glove while doing it) and manually twisting it and holding it in
the direction you want to go. Then hammer on it. That way you'll get
the most force directly into the fastener when the hammer hits.
More air pressure actually won't get you that much more kick out of
an impact. It'll just deplete your air tank more quickly and be louder.
I own some Ingersoll-Rand impacts, but plan to migrate over to
Chicago Pneumatic eventually. But either brand is better than the
walmart brand if you need the extra force.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

That's 576 Newton-Meters = 424.778 ft/lbs.
You should count on full power in reverse and partial power in fwd.
Specs are frequently lies.
Go with a solid name brand such as IR and don't worry.
A 5 gallon tank at 110psi should give you around 4 sec. of full power
if fed at 8cfm by a compressor (check how long you can run the gun in
seconds before the tank pressure drops below 100psi.).....then you have
to wait for the compressor to run and reach cutoff before you pull the
trigger again.
1/2" impacts eat up to 25cfm for full power.

There is no problem about taking the lugs off with an impact wrench but
when putting them back on aluminum rims your best to use a speed wrench
to get the lugs on ,if the rim was machined from a solid piece of billet
they can take the beating ok ,but if it is the factory rims those are
cast aluminum rims and they don't take well to excessive poundage very
well or the force exerted by impact wrenches,over time putting them on
like that the rims will develop small spider cracks which will develop
into a catastrophic failure ,and I've seen what a vehicle looks like
after something like that happens ,you really don't want to know .
Now there was one guy that i used to know years back that had a
customer come in and when he took the one wheel off he noticed the
spider cracks ,well he went around pulled the other wheels off and all
of them were cracked ,well he called the customer and told him his rims
needed replaced well the customer refused to hear it so my buddy told
him to come and get it he wasn't working on it and that he better bring
a flat bed other wise it wasn't leaving on those rims the customer said
he was gonna call the cops then,and my buddy said go ahead I'll show him
the damage to the rims ,he said the next morning the flat bed showed up
and my buddy made him sign the paperwork that he was notified that the
rims were damaged and from there the guy left unhappy but least my buddy
did everything in his power for the guy's safety so it was all on him
then.
And also think of this too ,if there is an accident and the cause of
it is due to the way you remounted your wheels on the vehicle they do
not have to pay you one red cent and you could be looking at some
serious legal problems ,I'm just doing this to keep you all safe ,I
already been thru one incident of a wheel coming off a full size SUV
right after I passed them just literally a few seconds before just
happen to see him slam into the barrier in my rearview mirror and saw
the tire flying off into the opposite lanes a second before he hit
it's an experience I hope none of you go thru and I really don't want to
go thru again I may not be so lucky next time ,and I hope noone I care
about is involved in something like that ,so just remember your family
is out there you friends and their family is out there what can you do
to protect them as much as possible .
See you guys around and good luck

Good comments that the industry really doesn't want the public to read
about. AL wheels are goddawful expensive for the risk you take driving
them down the road.
Bugs

When the nut is torqued, the stud is elongated and the
resulting tension is what keeps the lugnut on, not the friction against the
threads.



Er, that can't possibly be true, think ball screws which have very low
friction on the threads and can be readily driven by axial loads.

It IS true. Wheel studs aren't the same mechanism as ball screws.
I sold wheels and studs and all the associated parts for everything
from small cars up to earthmoving equipment for nine years, and those
studs, as with any tensile fastener, have some stretch to them and that
stretch is dependent on nut torque. The stretch is within the yield
limit of the metal, and overtorquing pulls them past that and into the
ultimate range where they lose their elasticity and either promptly
lose their tightness and come loose, or snap under driving stresses and
let the wheel go. When properly torqued, they maintain friction agains
the wheel and prevent the nut's loosening. The same principle is used
on many engine connecting rods, where the only means of preventing
their loosening is the stud's stretch. No locknuts or washers, no
cotter pins, no nothing. Even in the aircraft engines I work on now.
Adding Never-Seize to the threads reduces the torque
requirement by as much as 40%. Easy to overtorque the nuts in that
case. Don't use the stuff on the conical nut/wheel interface.
Stuck steel nuts on aluminum rims can be caused by galling of
the aluminum. As the nut is tightened and pressure between the steel
and aluminum comes up, the steel drags a bit of the aluminum and
creates a barbing effect that will resist nut reversal. The nuts need
to be new or have really smooth cone faces. Ideally, a hard nut would
be best. I've come across cheap nuts that are soft enough to suffer
even against aluminum, never mind steel.

Dan

What about studs which are wet from water, is there enough lubrication from
water as compared to a dry stud to affect the torque reading?

wrote in message
oups.com...
When the nut is torqued, the stud is elongated and the
resulting tension is what keeps the lugnut on, not the friction against
the
threads.



Er, that can't possibly be true, think ball screws which have very low
friction on the threads and can be readily driven by axial loads.

It IS true. Wheel studs aren't the same mechanism as ball screws.
I sold wheels and studs and all the associated parts for everything
from small cars up to earthmoving equipment for nine years, and those
studs, as with any tensile fastener, have some stretch to them and that
stretch is dependent on nut torque. The stretch is within the yield
limit of the metal, and overtorquing pulls them past that and into the
ultimate range where they lose their elasticity and either promptly
lose their tightness and come loose, or snap under driving stresses and
let the wheel go. When properly torqued, they maintain friction agains
the wheel and prevent the nut's loosening. The same principle is used
on many engine connecting rods, where the only means of preventing
their loosening is the stud's stretch. No locknuts or washers, no
cotter pins, no nothing. Even in the aircraft engines I work on now.
Adding Never-Seize to the threads reduces the torque
requirement by as much as 40%. Easy to overtorque the nuts in that
case. Don't use the stuff on the conical nut/wheel interface.
Stuck steel nuts on aluminum rims can be caused by galling of
the aluminum. As the nut is tightened and pressure between the steel
and aluminum comes up, the steel drags a bit of the aluminum and
creates a barbing effect that will resist nut reversal. The nuts need
to be new or have really smooth cone faces. Ideally, a hard nut would
be best. I've come across cheap nuts that are soft enough to suffer
even against aluminum, never mind steel.

Dan

What about studs which are wet from water, is there enough lubrication from
water as compared to a dry stud to affect the torque reading?

I have somewhere here a small manual that lists the effects of
various lubricants on thread torques, but I can't find it this minute.
Might be at work. I don't think water was listed, as its lubricity
under that much pressure should be insignificant. I'll see if I can
find that book and post a few figures.

Dan

I found my little book. The effect of various lubricants on
torque settings looks like this:

Steel, non-plated, dry: 1.00 of torque spec.
Grease with copper, graphite, and aluminum flakes: 0.85 of spec
Zinc electroplate 0.85
C5A copper-graphite anti-seize 0.80
Motor Oil SAE 20 0.80
Dri-Lock adhesive coating 0.75
Zinc anti-seize 0.75
Graphite 0.70
Grease with graphite 0.65
Moly-50 anti-seize (moly disulphide) 0.65
Dri-Lock 200 0.60
Graphite and motor oil 0.55
Oil (heavy) 0.50
Moly-Cote 0.45
Never-Seize 0.45

These are just a few from a lengthy list. Be careful with
that Never-Seize; using a standard torque will more than double the
stress in the fastener.

Dan

How about this one
http://www.princessauto.com/_osn.cfm...CurrentPage=15

It has to be a Chinese import but it is a 1/2 drive and rated 730 ft-lbs
working and 800 ft-lbs max. and is only 98 buck Canadian, that is around 85
US

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:15:52 GMT, "habbi"
wrote:

All I am saying is that is what the manufacturer wants. I agree, I
checked a
few torque charts on the web for particular stud sizes and it is high
compared to them but that is what they call for.


Likely that the manufacturer expected clean and dry threads.
Lubricating with anti-seize assures overtorquing....

...but I suspect that you need to try a quality wrench.... Matco, Mac,
Snap-on.... etc...

or better yet, break them loose by hand...
--

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