Wondering if you are using/used a VFD if you might share your
experiences in terms of the details of setting it up, your experiences
with a given motor(s) and any other insights into selecting a VFD &
motor combo??

Thanks,

_-_-bear

BEAR wrote:



Wondering if you are using/used a VFD if you might share your
experiences in terms of the details of setting it up, your experiences
with a given motor(s) and any other insights into selecting a VFD &
motor combo??

I have 2 of them, one on a lathe, other on a Bridgeport mill.
I have a 1 Hp Magnetek GPD333 (made by Yaskawa) on a 1 Hp Bridgeport
with the stock US Motors motor. It works very well, even though it is
supposed
to be used on 3-phase input only. I also run a Westwind air bearing
spindle motor
up to 24000 RPM with the same inverter at its maximum frequency, 400 Hz.

On the lathe, I have an 11 KW Toshiba Tosvert (forget the model #) that
is not
usually sold in the US. I also run this on single phase 240 V power,
and the Sheldon
15" lathe has a 7.5 hp motor. The not sold in the US thing was
significant, as the
Toshiba drives people in the US were very happy to get me a manual for
it, but
it was clearly a literal translation from the Japanese, and quite hard
to follow.
The needed information was strewn all over the manual, in charts and
diagrams
and tables from front to back. It took a few days to figure out how to
get everything
working. On the lathe, especially, the dynamic braking was a big plus,
as it took
15+ seconds to wind down by itself from the high speed range. With the
VFD, it
stops in one second. I also added a jog that is real handy when trying
to engage
certain gear selections.

Jon

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:29:31 -0500, BEAR wrote:



Wondering if you are using/used a VFD if you might share your
experiences in terms of the details of setting it up, your experiences
with a given motor(s) and any other insights into selecting a VFD &
motor combo??

Thanks,

_-_-bear

I do this daily in the course of my employement as a machine tool
mechanic. What do you need to know?

At home, I have a Yaskawa PC3 5hp inverter running on 220 single phase
and operating the motor on my Gorton MasterMill. A speed pot and a
forward/reverse gives me infinate control, and the ability to tap with
instant reverse. If Im running a shell mill, with heavy, high torque
cuts, I kick the head into Low range and simply eat up the metal.

If running the VFD on single phase..rate the VFD at least 1.5 or more
hp higher than the motor. If running on 3 phase..rate it at least the
motors rated HP.

If you have multigroove pulleys, pick the middle range and normally
run there. If you must run very slow..change the pulley to a lower
range one. This keeps motor RPM (and cooling) up there along with the
proper torque. VFDs tend to poop out torque wise at low rpm settings.

Be sure that your machine and tooling is capable of running at the
speeds VFDs are capable of running. A big old chuck designed to run at
500 rpm...may become a grenade at 1500 or 2000 rpm. Avoid setting the
max hertz output of the VFD to more than 120 hz. Many motors will
not like the higher freq. Nor will their bearings. Doubling motor
speed is about the max you should do, unless the motor is specifically
rated for VFD, high hz input.

I recently put a 1/2 hp rated Horizon single phase to 3 ph VFD on my
Delta/Rockwell drill press. The motor is 3/4 hp..a true 3/4. It runs
it well, though it starts a bit slow and takes a few seconds to come
up to speed, which I suspect is unique to the VFD itself, and not the
size of the motor/ mismatch. The only issue I have with this old
VFD..is that it doesnt reverse very well, so cannot use it for
tapping. So I use a tapping unit. But the ability to tweak the rpms
is invaluable.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"BEAR" wrote in message
...


Wondering if you are using/used a VFD if you might share your experiences
in terms of the details of setting it up, your experiences with a given
motor(s) and any other insights into selecting a VFD & motor combo??

I've not much to add to the other replies, except to say that I'm using 3
VFDs - a couple of 3 HP Mitsubishi FR-220E models to power a Clausing 5914
lathe and a Clausing 8540 horizontal mill, both with 2 HP motors and an
Hitachi L100 that powers a 1 HP motor on a KO Lee surface grinder. All are
powering the original motors and the Clausings are nearly 40 years old and
almost certainly *not* inverter-rated.

My usual approach to wiring is to run 220 VAC from a sub-panel to a fused
disconnect box and from there to the VFD. Rigid conduit up to the
disconnect box and LiquiTite between the disconnect and VFD and VFD and
motor. So far I've been able to wire the on-tool power switches to control
terminals on the VFD (in a separate run) of LiquiTite to provide motor
for/off/rev on the lathe & mill and for/off on the grinder. The disconnect
lets me shut off power to the VFD when it is not being used, though others
accomblish the same thing with a cord and plug.

The only minor problem was with the Hitachi because the original were
momentary push buttons for start and stop. The Hitachi L-100 lacks the
built-in logic to use this setup directly as it expects a sustained "on"
contact closure. A tech note from Hitachi provided wiring for a small
control relay and diode, which fixed that problem for around $15 at Radio
Shack. I think that this is referred to as "3-wire control" and has the
benfit that a power outage will shut down the motor until power is back up
*and* the start button is depressed again. The drum switches on the lathe
and mill will power either back up when power comes back on unless I
manually turn the switches to off.

Mike

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:48:34 -0600, "Mike Henry"
wrote:

The only minor problem was with the Hitachi because the original were
momentary push buttons for start and stop. The Hitachi L-100 lacks the
built-in logic to use this setup directly as it expects a sustained "on"
contact closure. A tech note from Hitachi provided wiring for a small
control relay and diode, which fixed that problem for around $15 at Radio
Shack. I think that this is referred to as "3-wire control" and has the
benfit that a power outage will shut down the motor until power is back up
*and* the start button is depressed again. The drum switches on the lathe
and mill will power either back up when power comes back on unless I
manually turn the switches to off.

Mike

Does your Hitachi make the motor "sing"?

I have one ..about a 2hp..cant recall the model number at the moment
that Id originally put on my drill press, and it made the motor
"sing"....very high note, right at the edge of my (very bad) hearing
range. Almost a hydraulic or servo sound....

I didnt like using it on the drill press, as it required coming to a
full stop before it would allow you to reverse directions, so I stuck
on the old Horizon, saving the Hitachi for another future project.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:48:34 -0600, "Mike Henry"
wrote:

The only minor problem was with the Hitachi because the original were
momentary push buttons for start and stop. The Hitachi L-100 lacks the
built-in logic to use this setup directly as it expects a sustained "on"
contact closure. A tech note from Hitachi provided wiring for a small
control relay and diode, which fixed that problem for around $15 at Radio
Shack. I think that this is referred to as "3-wire control" and has the
benfit that a power outage will shut down the motor until power is back up
*and* the start button is depressed again. The drum switches on the lathe
and mill will power either back up when power comes back on unless I
manually turn the switches to off.

Mike

Does your Hitachi make the motor "sing"?

I have one ..about a 2hp..cant recall the model number at the moment
that Id originally put on my drill press, and it made the motor
"sing"....very high note, right at the edge of my (very bad) hearing
range. Almost a hydraulic or servo sound....

I didnt like using it on the drill press, as it required coming to a
full stop before it would allow you to reverse directions, so I stuck
on the old Horizon, saving the Hitachi for another future project.

Not so that I've ever noticed, though that could be my hearing. I test
pretty well, but others are bothered by high frequency noise that I don't
seem to hear as much. Did you try changing the carrier frequency?

Mike

Mike Henry wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:48:34 -0600, "Mike Henry"
wrote:


The only minor problem was with the Hitachi because the original were
momentary push buttons for start and stop. The Hitachi L-100 lacks the
built-in logic to use this setup directly as it expects a sustained "on"
contact closure. A tech note from Hitachi provided wiring for a small
control relay and diode, which fixed that problem for around $15 at Radio
Shack. I think that this is referred to as "3-wire control" and has the
benfit that a power outage will shut down the motor until power is back up
*and* the start button is depressed again. The drum switches on the lathe
and mill will power either back up when power comes back on unless I
manually turn the switches to off.

Mike

Does your Hitachi make the motor "sing"?

I have one ..about a 2hp..cant recall the model number at the moment
that Id originally put on my drill press, and it made the motor
"sing"....very high note, right at the edge of my (very bad) hearing
range. Almost a hydraulic or servo sound....

I didnt like using it on the drill press, as it required coming to a
full stop before it would allow you to reverse directions, so I stuck
on the old Horizon, saving the Hitachi for another future project.


Not so that I've ever noticed, though that could be my hearing. I test
pretty well, but others are bothered by high frequency noise that I don't
seem to hear as much. Did you try changing the carrier frequency?

I have two L100's, one on the lathe and one on
the mill. They both cause the motors to sing
at certain speeds, the mill worse than the
lathe. I think it has something to do with
motor quality as the mill still has it's Taiwanese
motor and the lathe has a nice new Leeson.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:41:15 -0600, "Mike Henry"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:48:34 -0600, "Mike Henry"
wrote:

The only minor problem was with the Hitachi because the original were
momentary push buttons for start and stop. The Hitachi L-100 lacks the
built-in logic to use this setup directly as it expects a sustained "on"
contact closure. A tech note from Hitachi provided wiring for a small
control relay and diode, which fixed that problem for around $15 at Radio
Shack. I think that this is referred to as "3-wire control" and has the
benfit that a power outage will shut down the motor until power is back up
*and* the start button is depressed again. The drum switches on the lathe
and mill will power either back up when power comes back on unless I
manually turn the switches to off.

Mike

Does your Hitachi make the motor "sing"?

I have one ..about a 2hp..cant recall the model number at the moment
that Id originally put on my drill press, and it made the motor
"sing"....very high note, right at the edge of my (very bad) hearing
range. Almost a hydraulic or servo sound....

I didnt like using it on the drill press, as it required coming to a
full stop before it would allow you to reverse directions, so I stuck
on the old Horizon, saving the Hitachi for another future project.

Not so that I've ever noticed, though that could be my hearing. I test
pretty well, but others are bothered by high frequency noise that I don't
seem to hear as much. Did you try changing the carrier frequency?

Mike

Mine is pretty old, though NOS and there is little that can be
changed..no programming keypad etc etc. I think its a 1994 model

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Does your Hitachi make the motor "sing"?

I own 2 different brands of VFDs. Both brands have adjustable
"carrier frequency" that can be tuned to minimize the noise.

I have 2HP Leeson motors on a couple machines that are inverter
duty rated. I run the carrier freq at 10k (max) on these
machines. There is no noise and they run very smooth.
I run the carrier freq much lower on standard motors. For example
I run around 1.6k on the rockwell surface grinder and a little
bit more on the rockwell mill. The rockwell vertical motor is the
loudest of them all and someday I will replace it with a modern
motor because it also has mechanical resonances and some speeds
which is very annoying.

chuck

According to Gunner Asch :
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:41:15 -0600, "Mike Henry"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Not so that I've ever noticed, though that could be my hearing. I test
pretty well, but others are bothered by high frequency noise that I don't
seem to hear as much. Did you try changing the carrier frequency?

[ ... ]

Mine is pretty old, though NOS and there is little that can be
changed..no programming keypad etc etc. I think its a 1994 model

Hmm ... on the Hitachi ones which I have, the programming keypad
is an option -- it goes in place of a pop-out piece on the main cover.
I got a keypad with each of mine, and an extension cable for each so I
can remote the keypad while I am tuning things up.

And things like the reverse speed can be programmed as well.
You might need to add a resistor to absorb the excess power being
shunted from the motor during the slow-down part. (You can also tune
how quickly it will slow down and accelerate.)

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:41:15 -0600, "Mike Henry"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:48:34 -0600, "Mike Henry"
wrote:

The only minor problem was with the Hitachi because the original were
momentary push buttons for start and stop. The Hitachi L-100 lacks the
built-in logic to use this setup directly as it expects a sustained "on"
contact closure. A tech note from Hitachi provided wiring for a small
control relay and diode, which fixed that problem for around $15 at
Radio
Shack. I think that this is referred to as "3-wire control" and has the
benfit that a power outage will shut down the motor until power is back
up
*and* the start button is depressed again. The drum switches on the
lathe
and mill will power either back up when power comes back on unless I
manually turn the switches to off.

Mike

Does your Hitachi make the motor "sing"?

I have one ..about a 2hp..cant recall the model number at the moment
that Id originally put on my drill press, and it made the motor
"sing"....very high note, right at the edge of my (very bad) hearing
range. Almost a hydraulic or servo sound....

I didnt like using it on the drill press, as it required coming to a
full stop before it would allow you to reverse directions, so I stuck
on the old Horizon, saving the Hitachi for another future project.

Not so that I've ever noticed, though that could be my hearing. I test
pretty well, but others are bothered by high frequency noise that I don't
seem to hear as much. Did you try changing the carrier frequency?

Mike

Mine is pretty old, though NOS and there is little that can be
changed..no programming keypad etc etc. I think its a 1994 model

Well, that kind of sucks. Have you had a look through the manual to see if
there was an optional keypad (as DoN suggested) or maybe a way to set
parameters through a cable to a PC or laptop with custom software. Another
possibility is that some of the VFD controls serve a double function and
allow parameter programming via a funky sequence. You've probably already
thought of that, though.

Mike

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:12:19 -0600, "Mike Henry"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:41:15 -0600, "Mike Henry"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:48:34 -0600, "Mike Henry"
wrote:

The only minor problem was with the Hitachi because the original were
momentary push buttons for start and stop. The Hitachi L-100 lacks the
built-in logic to use this setup directly as it expects a sustained "on"
contact closure. A tech note from Hitachi provided wiring for a small
control relay and diode, which fixed that problem for around $15 at
Radio
Shack. I think that this is referred to as "3-wire control" and has the
benfit that a power outage will shut down the motor until power is back
up
*and* the start button is depressed again. The drum switches on the
lathe
and mill will power either back up when power comes back on unless I
manually turn the switches to off.

Mike

Does your Hitachi make the motor "sing"?

I have one ..about a 2hp..cant recall the model number at the moment
that Id originally put on my drill press, and it made the motor
"sing"....very high note, right at the edge of my (very bad) hearing
range. Almost a hydraulic or servo sound....

I didnt like using it on the drill press, as it required coming to a
full stop before it would allow you to reverse directions, so I stuck
on the old Horizon, saving the Hitachi for another future project.

Not so that I've ever noticed, though that could be my hearing. I test
pretty well, but others are bothered by high frequency noise that I don't
seem to hear as much. Did you try changing the carrier frequency?

Mike

Mine is pretty old, though NOS and there is little that can be
changed..no programming keypad etc etc. I think its a 1994 model

Well, that kind of sucks. Have you had a look through the manual to see if
there was an optional keypad (as DoN suggested) or maybe a way to set
parameters through a cable to a PC or laptop with custom software. Another
possibility is that some of the VFD controls serve a double function and
allow parameter programming via a funky sequence. You've probably already
thought of that, though.

Mike

Ayup....G I work with VFDs daily. This older unit is pretty bare
bones.

Gunner, Owner, Coyote Engineering. Machine Tool service and repair

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

We have a teeny one we use to power a german made rotary table.
It is sold by automation direct, they have some amazing pricing.

(We use a rotary table on a vertical mill, with the axis vertical, to mill
the OD of some pretty big parts, as well as face grinding rings.)

I ordered 3 of them, and when the box arrived, it looked about the right
size for one unit.
I was disappointed that we only received one.
Upon opening the box, I found 3 boxes inside.
Each box iside had a generous amount of packing. The thing is maybe 3 x 4 x
5?

It set up quickly and has given no trouble at all.

I'd love to install one on one our cnc mills as a spindle drive.
I forgot about the dynamic braking, that's a real bonus for production work.
It's too bad they use resistors to throw away that energy, if someone came
up with one that stored it, like with caps, what a sweet deal that would be.


"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...

BEAR wrote:

Wondering if you are using/used a VFD if you might share your experiences
in terms of the details of setting it up, your experiences with a given
motor(s) and any other insights into selecting a VFD & motor combo??

I have 2 of them, one on a lathe, other on a Bridgeport mill.
I have a 1 Hp Magnetek GPD333 (made by Yaskawa) on a 1 Hp Bridgeport
with the stock US Motors motor. It works very well, even though it is
supposed
to be used on 3-phase input only. I also run a Westwind air bearing
spindle motor
up to 24000 RPM with the same inverter at its maximum frequency, 400 Hz.

On the lathe, I have an 11 KW Toshiba Tosvert (forget the model #) that is
not
usually sold in the US. I also run this on single phase 240 V power, and
the Sheldon
15" lathe has a 7.5 hp motor. The not sold in the US thing was
significant, as the
Toshiba drives people in the US were very happy to get me a manual for it,
but
it was clearly a literal translation from the Japanese, and quite hard to
follow.
The needed information was strewn all over the manual, in charts and
diagrams
and tables from front to back. It took a few days to figure out how to
get everything
working. On the lathe, especially, the dynamic braking was a big plus, as
it took
15+ seconds to wind down by itself from the high speed range. With the
VFD, it
stops in one second. I also added a jog that is real handy when trying to
engage
certain gear selections.

Jon