I sent this once before, but it doesn't seem to have made it to the
newsgroup.
---------------------
There are lots of threading inserts, and the several catalog pages I've
looked at to try to understand them don't do a very good job. The
turning inserts make a lot more sense than the threading ones.

So first, can anyone point me to a reasonable explanation of how the
inserts are numbered (threading, not turning)?
Are threading insert brands compatible with each other? For instance,
can I expect to use company A's insert in company B's holder?

And in the too convenient to be true department, can I use a triangular
threading insert to cut internal threads with my insert boring bars?

I could make threading insert holders, but don't know the angles and
such, how much it varies from insert type to insert type, etc.

Thanks,
Steve

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
...
I sent this once before, but it doesn't seem to have made it to the
newsgroup.
---------------------

I saw it, Steve, but didn't respond, not being up to speed on current
carbides. I left the shop behind about 22 years ago.
My opinions follow:

There are lots of threading inserts, and the several catalog pages I've
looked at to try to understand them don't do a very good job. The
turning inserts make a lot more sense than the threading ones.

So first, can anyone point me to a reasonable explanation of how the
inserts are numbered (threading, not turning)?

Can't help there. Not familiar with them enough to have an opinion.

Are threading insert brands compatible with each other? For instance,
can I expect to use company A's insert in company B's holder?

Unless they are identical in appearance, most likely not, and maybe not even
then. I've seen them made in various ways, so one would obviously not fit
another's holder. Could be there are standard sizes and configurations
today, however, and they may just interchange. I'm surprised no one with
knowledge has stepped forward. That could be a result of having only one
brand of holder, and not being familiar with others.

And in the too convenient to be true department, can I use a triangular
threading insert to cut internal threads with my insert boring bars?

You can generate the thread, but it isn't likely to have the correct
configuration. You may also lack clearance for the holder as you get to
depth with the thread. Boring bars aren't intended to be used for
threading. For coarse threads, it may also lack side relief adequate for
the tool to cut without dragging. If you're cutting to specifications, the
flat (radius on the tip) would likely be proper for only a single pitch,
maybe 2 of them. Further, any deviation from flat is likely to affect
thread form regards included angle. May not be enough to be of concern, but
something to consider. What thread pitch is in question, and what is the
tip radius of your insert?

I could make threading insert holders, but don't know the angles and
such, how much it varies from insert type to insert type, etc.

If you know how the insert is intended to be mounted, certainly making
holders isn't beyond one's ability. Someone, somewhere, makes the holders
for the companies that sell them. You have to understand if the insert
should be mounted flat, or angled, negative or positive, side rake, etc.
Without that, you may not achieve a functional holder. There's no single
answer.


Thanks,
Steve

Welcome. Hope it helped.


Harold

Thanks much Harold. It sounds to me like the situation is as mixed as I
have been seeing.

Steve

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
...


I sent this once before, but it doesn't seem to have made it to the
newsgroup.
---------------------



I saw it, Steve, but didn't respond, not being up to speed on current
carbides. I left the shop behind about 22 years ago.
My opinions follow:



There are lots of threading inserts, and the several catalog pages I've
looked at to try to understand them don't do a very good job. The
turning inserts make a lot more sense than the threading ones.

So first, can anyone point me to a reasonable explanation of how the
inserts are numbered (threading, not turning)?



Can't help there. Not familiar with them enough to have an opinion.



Are threading insert brands compatible with each other? For instance,
can I expect to use company A's insert in company B's holder?



Unless they are identical in appearance, most likely not, and maybe not even
then. I've seen them made in various ways, so one would obviously not fit
another's holder. Could be there are standard sizes and configurations
today, however, and they may just interchange. I'm surprised no one with
knowledge has stepped forward. That could be a result of having only one
brand of holder, and not being familiar with others.


And in the too convenient to be true department, can I use a triangular
threading insert to cut internal threads with my insert boring bars?



You can generate the thread, but it isn't likely to have the correct
configuration. You may also lack clearance for the holder as you get to
depth with the thread. Boring bars aren't intended to be used for
threading. For coarse threads, it may also lack side relief adequate for
the tool to cut without dragging. If you're cutting to specifications, the
flat (radius on the tip) would likely be proper for only a single pitch,
maybe 2 of them. Further, any deviation from flat is likely to affect
thread form regards included angle. May not be enough to be of concern, but
something to consider. What thread pitch is in question, and what is the
tip radius of your insert?


I could make threading insert holders, but don't know the angles and
such, how much it varies from insert type to insert type, etc.



If you know how the insert is intended to be mounted, certainly making
holders isn't beyond one's ability. Someone, somewhere, makes the holders
for the companies that sell them. You have to understand if the insert
should be mounted flat, or angled, negative or positive, side rake, etc.
Without that, you may not achieve a functional holder. There's no single
answer.



Thanks,
Steve



Welcome. Hope it helped.


Harold

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
...
I sent this once before, but it doesn't seem to have made it to the
newsgroup.
---------------------
There are lots of threading inserts, and the several catalog pages I've
looked at to try to understand them don't do a very good job. The turning
inserts make a lot more sense than the threading ones.

So first, can anyone point me to a reasonable explanation of how the
inserts are numbered (threading, not turning)?

Are threading insert brands compatible with each other? For instance, can
I expect to use company A's insert in company B's holder?

The on-edge threading inserts seem to compatible with each other. I have
used several brands of TNMC-43NV/TPMC-43NV in several brands of holders.

I have used laydown thread inserts like Kennametal/Carboloy 16ER series and
Vardex 3ER series in each others holders. Also the internal versions 16IR
and 3IR series.



And in the too convenient to be true department, can I use a triangular
threading insert to cut internal threads with my insert boring bars?

Threading inserts have thier own holder styles. I have never tried to use a
threading insert in a turning holder. Also the laydown inserts usually have
an anvil (like a shim) under the insert. Anvils are used to adjust the angle
of the insert to the helix angle of the thread.


I could make threading insert holders, but don't know the angles and such,
how much it varies from insert type to insert type, etc.

I believe the vertical angle for on-edge threading inserts is zero.


Thanks,
Steve

Hope this helps,
MikeH

I have a NEW Valenite 1" internal threading/grooving bar, takes TNMC-32NV
inserts, comes with 5 uncoated TNMC-32NV and 10 coated TNMC-32NV inserts. You
can buy a Valenite external lathe threading tool which will also take these
inserts. I bought this stuff (big $$) for my big lathe but never used them, now
my lathe is gone. If anyone wants this stuff, you can have the whole shebang for
$35 plus shipping (might fit in the big flat rate envelope) which is about what
I paid for one batch of the inserts ..

GWE

Mike H wrote:

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
...

I sent this once before, but it doesn't seem to have made it to the
newsgroup.
---------------------
There are lots of threading inserts, and the several catalog pages I've
looked at to try to understand them don't do a very good job. The turning
inserts make a lot more sense than the threading ones.

So first, can anyone point me to a reasonable explanation of how the
inserts are numbered (threading, not turning)?


Are threading insert brands compatible with each other? For instance, can
I expect to use company A's insert in company B's holder?


The on-edge threading inserts seem to compatible with each other. I have
used several brands of TNMC-43NV/TPMC-43NV in several brands of holders.

I have used laydown thread inserts like Kennametal/Carboloy 16ER series and
Vardex 3ER series in each others holders. Also the internal versions 16IR
and 3IR series.



And in the too convenient to be true department, can I use a triangular
threading insert to cut internal threads with my insert boring bars?


Threading inserts have thier own holder styles. I have never tried to use a
threading insert in a turning holder. Also the laydown inserts usually have
an anvil (like a shim) under the insert. Anvils are used to adjust the angle
of the insert to the helix angle of the thread.


I could make threading insert holders, but don't know the angles and such,
how much it varies from insert type to insert type, etc.


I believe the vertical angle for on-edge threading inserts is zero.


Thanks,
Steve


Hope this helps,
MikeH

According to Steve Smith :
I sent this once before, but it doesn't seem to have made it to the
newsgroup.

I saw it, and I spent some time typing a followup. Perhaps you
need to go to Google to pick up things which your news server drops --
either drops because of a sort expire time, or it just never got there.

Google does archive everything on usenet.

I don't really feel like re-typing all of what I posted.

---------------------
There are lots of threading inserts, and the several catalog pages I've
looked at to try to understand them don't do a very good job. The
turning inserts make a lot more sense than the threading ones.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Grant Erwin wrote:

I have a NEW Valenite 1" internal threading/grooving bar, takes TNMC-32NV
inserts, comes with 5 uncoated TNMC-32NV and 10 coated TNMC-32NV inserts. You
can buy a Valenite external lathe threading tool which will also take these
inserts. I bought this stuff (big $$) for my big lathe but never used them, now
my lathe is gone. If anyone wants this stuff, you can have the whole shebang for
$35 plus shipping (might fit in the big flat rate envelope) which is about what
I paid for one batch of the inserts ..

GWE

Mike H wrote:

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
...

I sent this once before, but it doesn't seem to have made it to the
newsgroup.
---------------------
There are lots of threading inserts, and the several catalog pages I've
looked at to try to understand them don't do a very good job. The turning
inserts make a lot more sense than the threading ones.

So first, can anyone point me to a reasonable explanation of how the
inserts are numbered (threading, not turning)?


Are threading insert brands compatible with each other? For instance, can
I expect to use company A's insert in company B's holder?


The on-edge threading inserts seem to compatible with each other. I have
used several brands of TNMC-43NV/TPMC-43NV in several brands of holders.

I have used laydown thread inserts like Kennametal/Carboloy 16ER series and
Vardex 3ER series in each others holders. Also the internal versions 16IR
and 3IR series.



And in the too convenient to be true department, can I use a triangular
threading insert to cut internal threads with my insert boring bars?


Threading inserts have thier own holder styles. I have never tried to use a
threading insert in a turning holder. Also the laydown inserts usually have
an anvil (like a shim) under the insert. Anvils are used to adjust the angle
of the insert to the helix angle of the thread.


I could make threading insert holders, but don't know the angles and such,
how much it varies from insert type to insert type, etc.


I believe the vertical angle for on-edge threading inserts is zero.


Thanks,
Steve


Hope this helps,
MikeH



Left or right handed?

John

Steve Smith wrote:

I sent this once before, but it doesn't seem to have made it to the
newsgroup.
---------------------
There are lots of threading inserts, and the several catalog pages I've
looked at to try to understand them don't do a very good job. The
turning inserts make a lot more sense than the threading ones.

So first, can anyone point me to a reasonable explanation of how the
inserts are numbered (threading, not turning)?
Are threading insert brands compatible with each other? For instance,
can I expect to use company A's insert in company B's holder?

And in the too convenient to be true department, can I use a triangular
threading insert to cut internal threads with my insert boring bars?

I could make threading insert holders, but don't know the angles and
such, how much it varies from insert type to insert type, etc.

Thanks,
Steve

Using a standard 60 degree cutting insert you run into the problem of
relief for the helix angle. In other words, the bottom of the insert
will drag on one side of the thread. You could grind relief in the
insert and check it on a already threaded bolt. I would go with a
standard threading insert. laydown inserts are nice because they form
the full thread shape but you need a different insert for each pitch.
Single point tools seem to work better for manual threading. You can buy
an E type brazed tool for very cheap prices but make sure you check it
with a fishtale gauge. I had some I bought once that were ground wrong.
They were kennametal from MSC. I went to the store and all the ones in
the box were screwed up. Single point inserts are nice because if you
break the insert you just put in another and you are already in
position. You got to watch that the point does not get broken off. The
thread will look nice but the root will not be completely cleaned out
and you will over cut the thread if you are using a thread gauge to
check the fit. If your lathe has a thread stop it makes it a pleasure
to cut threads. If not it becomes a little more of a challange. There
are a lot of good sites on the web on threading... search "double depth
threads."


John

Steve Smith wrote:
Thanks John, this was pretty useful.

Steve

John wrote:

Using a standard 60 degree cutting insert you run into the problem of

relief for the helix angle. In other words, the bottom of the insert
will drag on one side of the thread. You could grind relief in the
insert and check it on a already threaded bolt. I would go with a
standard threading insert. laydown inserts are nice because they form
the full thread shape but you need a different insert for each pitch.
Single point tools seem to work better for manual threading. You can buy
an E type brazed tool for very cheap prices but make sure you check it
with a fishtale gauge. I had some I bought once that were ground wrong.
They were kennametal from MSC. I went to the store and all the ones in
the box were screwed up. Single point inserts are nice because if you
break the insert you just put in another and you are already in
position. You got to watch that the point does not get broken off. The
thread will look nice but the root will not be completely cleaned out
and you will over cut the thread if you are using a thread gauge to
check the fit. If your lathe has a thread stop it makes it a pleasure
to cut threads. If not it becomes a little more of a challange. There
are a lot of good sites on the web on threading... search "double depth
threads."


John

My company mfr special threading & grooving inserts plus the holders for many of the well known names they then rebrand..

I will be happy to quote on any specials.

Please view the web site and send enquiries through it
www.gilmourtools.co.uk