Hi,

I have a small project which requires fastening pieces of 1/2 " x 1/8"
steel bar.

This is for a friends "wrought" ironwork hobby.

The instructions specify punching holes and using small bolts which in
my opinion look very bad.

I have done both oxy/acetylene welding and arc welding in the past.

I had considered brazing or soldering the joints but the color
difference is a problem. These are to be chemically treated for a
surface finish.

Spot welding was suggested but I have never seen spot welding of two
1/8" thick steel.

The two options I have come up with are an arc welder using 1/16" rod
or a cheap MIG welder with flux/wire (gasless). Both from a local
Harborfreight store.

Neither unit has to last very long since there are only a couple
hundred short welds to do. Time to clean up welds is not an issue at
the moment.


Any suggestions ?


Second item - are the automatic face shields any good. When using an
arc welder I always seemed to be looking at the arc before getting the
shield in place in order to start the weld.

thanks for any helpful comments.

I suggest punching and riveting with steel rivets. - GWE

wrote:
Hi,

I have a small project which requires fastening pieces of 1/2 " x 1/8"
steel bar.

This is for a friends "wrought" ironwork hobby.

The instructions specify punching holes and using small bolts which in
my opinion look very bad.

I have done both oxy/acetylene welding and arc welding in the past.

I had considered brazing or soldering the joints but the color
difference is a problem. These are to be chemically treated for a
surface finish.

Spot welding was suggested but I have never seen spot welding of two
1/8" thick steel.

The two options I have come up with are an arc welder using 1/16" rod
or a cheap MIG welder with flux/wire (gasless). Both from a local
Harborfreight store.

Neither unit has to last very long since there are only a couple
hundred short welds to do. Time to clean up welds is not an issue at
the moment.


Any suggestions ?


Second item - are the automatic face shields any good. When using an
arc welder I always seemed to be looking at the arc before getting the
shield in place in order to start the weld.

thanks for any helpful comments.

On 29 Oct 2005 18:40:47 -0700, wrote:

Hi,

I have a small project which requires fastening pieces of 1/2 " x 1/8"
steel bar.

This is for a friends "wrought" ironwork hobby.

The instructions specify punching holes and using small bolts which in
my opinion look very bad.

I have done both oxy/acetylene welding and arc welding in the past.

I had considered brazing or soldering the joints but the color
difference is a problem. These are to be chemically treated for a
surface finish.

Spot welding was suggested but I have never seen spot welding of two
1/8" thick steel.

The two options I have come up with are an arc welder using 1/16" rod
or a cheap MIG welder with flux/wire (gasless). Both from a local
Harborfreight store.

Neither unit has to last very long since there are only a couple
hundred short welds to do. Time to clean up welds is not an issue at
the moment.


Any suggestions ?


Second item - are the automatic face shields any good. When using an
arc welder I always seemed to be looking at the arc before getting the
shield in place in order to start the weld.

thanks for any helpful comments.

I had one of the lil HF migs. Short duty cycle, but wouldnt be a
problem in your case. It actually worked quite well, and when I
upgraded, I gave it to a friend, and he is doing well with it, 2 yrs
later. Flux core machine, no gas, so there is a slag removal issue.
Might consider the slightly more expensive version and use CO2

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On 29 Oct 2005 18:40:47 -0700, wrote:

Hi,

I have a small project which requires fastening pieces of 1/2 " x 1/8"
steel bar.

This is for a friends "wrought" ironwork hobby.

The instructions specify punching holes and using small bolts which in
my opinion look very bad.

I have done both oxy/acetylene welding and arc welding in the past.

I had considered brazing or soldering the joints but the color
difference is a problem. These are to be chemically treated for a
surface finish.

Spot welding was suggested but I have never seen spot welding of two
1/8" thick steel.

The two options I have come up with are an arc welder using 1/16" rod
or a cheap MIG welder with flux/wire (gasless). Both from a local
Harborfreight store.

Neither unit has to last very long since there are only a couple
hundred short welds to do. Time to clean up welds is not an issue at
the moment.


Any suggestions ?


The small fluxcore machines can do 1/8" OK if you maintain a puddle
in the base metal and don't try to go too fast. 3/32" 7014
running at about 90 amps would do it if arcwelding with a minimal
machine with same caveats. I don't think you'll get there with 1/16"
rod.

Second item - are the automatic face shields any good. When using an
arc welder I always seemed to be looking at the arc before getting the
shield in place in order to start the weld.

thanks for any helpful comments.

SNIP


The instructions specify punching holes and using small bolts which in
my opinion look very bad.


If possible, you can put a hole in one piece, then weld thru the hole into
the other piece and fill the hole all in one step. this is called a plug
weld. works well, looks ok as is or is easy to grind flush......
This is real easy with a wirefeed machine......


Second item - are the automatic face shields any good. When using an
arc welder I always seemed to be looking at the arc before getting the
shield in place in order to start the weld.

thanks for any helpful comments.


worth any price in my opinion.....alot of folks here have the $50.00 HF
units with good results.....

HTH

Jeff

Never_Enough_Tools wrote:

this is called a plug
weld. works well, looks ok as is or is easy to grind flush......
This is real easy with a wirefeed machine......

But you need a lot of power. I would say at least 50% more like for
"real welding" a similar thickness.


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de

The autodarkening helments are a great investment because you can look
at the piece continously regardless of whether or not the arc is struck.

Thanks for the feedback.

It looks like I will go with the cheap MIG welder and see how it goes.

I'd first consider spot welding. The thing here is to try to minimize the
size of the spots (4 nice little spots near the corners of the part) that
actually get welded will decrease the amount of power needed to weld the
joing.
The second thing that I'd consider is to do TIG welding with the weld being
made up of the material being welded (no additonal rod material added).
This will generally allow the finish that you desire.
Finally, there is also hammer welding at the forge or with a O/A torch.

--
Why do penguins walk so far to get to their nesting grounds?

wrote in message
oups.com...

Thanks for the feedback.

It looks like I will go with the cheap MIG welder and see how it goes.

Advice on buying a cheap MIG: buy quality and cry only once. Cheapies are
notorious for having down time, and being difficult to get parts for. Then
you have some used POS you can't sell for much.

That's my feedback from my observations.

See how your experience comes out.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Thanks for the feedback.

It looks like I will go with the cheap MIG welder and see how it goes.


Advice on buying a cheap MIG: buy quality and cry only once. Cheapies are
notorious for having down time, and being difficult to get parts for. Then
you have some used POS you can't sell for much.

Yup. Check your local craigslist. Mine always has a whole bunch of $200 MIG
welders, generally Century or Harbor Freight or bottom end Lincolns.

GWE

"Ignoramus26744" wrote

I second the suggestion to buy as good welder as you can afford (this
is coming from someone who bought one for $9.99, so you may not give
me much credibility).

i

You got a deal on a good welder. Buying a used brand name welder that has a
lot of life in it is one of the best deals going. Buying something that has
no parts support, or at best a replacement guarantee isn't so good. Always
improve your equipment. Always keep good care of your equipment. And take
some of the money to buy better equipment.

I saw a welding truck today at Home Depot. He had two wirefeed units tossed
on the back. He had chains through the handles. The hoses and guns were a
tangle, and everything looked like it had been sitting out in the rain and
weather.

If this guy would roll up on my job, I'd have to tell him to keep going. A
man that don't care about his tools don't care about his work either. Or at
least that is only my opinion.

Steve

wrote:
....
I have a small project which requires fastening pieces of 1/2 " x 1/8"
steel bar.
....
The instructions specify punching holes and using small bolts which in
my opinion look very bad.
....
I had considered brazing or soldering the joints but the color
difference is a problem. These are to be chemically treated for a
surface finish.

Spot welding was suggested but I have never seen spot welding of two
1/8" thick steel.
....

Bob May already wrote that spotwelding is worth considering more,
and I agree. If the welds are to hold ornamental parts in place,
spotwelds should be plenty strong. But if there is strong
tension or shear, using a cheap spotwelder without a timer
could be marginal or inconsistent.

I recently spotwelded some sheet metal to 1/2" x 1/8" steel bar
and got ok welds. Also fastened a couple of pieces of the bar
together as a test. This is using the HF 230V spotwelder,
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45690
where it says "Welds uncoated stock as thick as 3/16'' ".
The stuff I was welding was galvanized and/or plated and
ended up discolored (from the heat) for a few mm out from the
weld point. The zinc flash (white powder residue) easily wipes
off. I didn't test the bar-to-bar welds to destruction,
so I don't know how strong they actually are. They held up
to some hammering, where I tried to get the weld to shear.
-jiw

James Waldby wrote:
wrote:
...
I have a small project which requires fastening pieces of 1/2 " x 1/8"
steel bar.
...
The instructions specify punching holes and using small bolts which in
my opinion look very bad.
...
I had considered brazing or soldering the joints but the color
difference is a problem. These are to be chemically treated for a
surface finish.

Spot welding was suggested but I have never seen spot welding of two
1/8" thick steel.
...

Bob May already wrote that spotwelding is worth considering more,
and I agree. If the welds are to hold ornamental parts in place,
spotwelds should be plenty strong. But if there is strong
tension or shear, using a cheap spotwelder without a timer
could be marginal or inconsistent.

I recently spotwelded some sheet metal to 1/2" x 1/8" steel bar
and got ok welds. Also fastened a couple of pieces of the bar
together as a test. This is using the HF 230V spotwelder,
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45690
where it says "Welds uncoated stock as thick as 3/16'' ".
The stuff I was welding was galvanized and/or plated and
ended up discolored (from the heat) for a few mm out from the
weld point. The zinc flash (white powder residue) easily wipes
off. I didn't test the bar-to-bar welds to destruction,
so I don't know how strong they actually are. They held up
to some hammering, where I tried to get the weld to shear.
-jiw


I have at the moment rented a spot welder for a couple of weeks. It is
a 230V unit and so far has done well. Girlfriend managed to set fire to
one piece but that is expected if you try welding an oily part.

None of the pieces hold much weight.

She had tried rivits, which someone had suggested, but had problems
with them pulling out. I found she was using a rivit that was too short
and a very cheap material. I got some new of assorted lengths and a
punch to help set them, so far so good.

I managed to borrow a mig welder from a friend of a friend who wants to
sell it to me (flux cored gasless) and it does a great job but running
dozens of 1/2" long welds is driving me batty.

Thanks again for the responses.

Advice on buying a cheap MIG: buy quality and cry only once. Cheapies
are
notorious for having down time, and being difficult to get parts for.
Then
you have some used POS you can't sell for much.

That's my feedback from my observations.

See how your experience comes out.

Steve


That's been my experience on almost everything.

I'm cheap by nature, so it's real tough for me to pass on the knock off
brand in favor of a name brand at twice the price (or more). But, I'm
learning.