Hi,

I am looking at buying a welder and would appreciate some advice on
which type to get.

My budget is limited to around the £50 mark, and it will be used for
mostly artistic work & small repairs, nothing requiring any perfect seams.

I used to weld years ago with an Oxy and Mig, although I found the
plasma cutter to be the most fun, this was at the Edinburgh Sculpture
Workshops so I had access to all of their equipment.

I have seen an 185 Amp Oxford Arc Welder locally. Would this suit my needs?

Thank you for your help.


/Heds

on 03/04/2005, Heds supposed :
Hi,

I am looking at buying a welder and would appreciate some advice on which
type to get.

My budget is limited to around the £50 mark, and it will be used for mostly
artistic work & small repairs, nothing requiring any perfect seams.

I used to weld years ago with an Oxy and Mig, although I found the plasma
cutter to be the most fun, this was at the Edinburgh Sculpture Workshops so I
had access to all of their equipment.


If you needs are to weld 3mm and above thick steel, then an ordinary
electric welder (using rods) would do fine. Mig types are essential for
steel much thinner than this though.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 23:33:48 +0100, Heds
wrote:

My budget is limited to around the £50 mark,

That's just not enough. You need the angle grinder, the box of disks,
the automatic hat, the gas bottle hire/disposable and all the rest of
it. You _can_ get a S/H MIG for 50 quid, but they're less than
wonderful. IMHO a decent MIG is 250 and a real one is 500.

On a budget limited to £50, I'd get a S/H natural draught gas torch
from eBay, some tinsnips, hammers and mallets, a half-empty propane
cylinder (2,50 from the council dump) and an immersion heater (tenner)
from the same place. Then take up coppersmithing, which is just as
much fun as welding steel and a lot less demanding on tooling.

and it will be used for
mostly artistic work & small repairs, nothing requiring any perfect seams.

MIG rather than stick. Stick is certainly cheaper to pick a machine
up for, but it's just not a practical tool to use for almost anything.

I used to weld years ago with an Oxy and Mig, although I found the
plasma cutter to be the most fun,

Yes, well it would be 8-)

this was at the Edinburgh Sculpture
Workshops so I had access to all of their equipment.

So go back there, or local equivalent. Whereabouts are you ?

I have seen an 185 Amp Oxford Arc Welder locally. Would this suit my needs?

It would eat up your budget and leave you with something that's
useless on anything less than 1/8" plate and only really useful for
over 1/4". Neither sort of metal being the sort of stuff you can cut
witht the tools budget you'd have left over.

--
Socialism: Eric, not Tony

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 23:33:48 +0100, Heds
wrote:

My budget is limited to around the £50 mark,

That's just not enough. You need the angle grinder, the box of disks,
the automatic hat, the gas bottle hire/disposable and all the rest of
it. You _can_ get a S/H MIG for 50 quid, but they're less than
wonderful. IMHO a decent MIG is 250 and a real one is 500.

Agreed - even many MIGs around 250 ish are pretty poor, and you have to pay
500 ish to get a good, reliable machine with decent power, a wire feed which
works all the time and a "EuroTorch" connector to allow easy replacement of
the torch when you break the one which comes with it.
I battled with a cheap machine for years and hired a pro machine for bigger
work. Eventually I gave up with this arrangement and bought a decent pro
machine and have never looked back.
Also factor in hire of "Argonshield" from BOC - the disposable cylinders are
a waste of time as expensive and only hold a tiny amount of gas.

On a budget limited to £50, I'd get a S/H natural draught gas torch
from eBay, some tinsnips, hammers and mallets, a half-empty propane
cylinder (2,50 from the council dump) and an immersion heater (tenner)
from the same place. Then take up coppersmithing, which is just as
much fun as welding steel and a lot less demanding on tooling.

and it will be used for
mostly artistic work & small repairs, nothing requiring any perfect seams.

MIG rather than stick. Stick is certainly cheaper to pick a machine
up for, but it's just not a practical tool to use for almost anything.

I used to weld years ago with an Oxy and Mig, although I found the
plasma cutter to be the most fun,

Yes, well it would be 8-)

this was at the Edinburgh Sculpture
Workshops so I had access to all of their equipment.

So go back there, or local equivalent. Whereabouts are you ?

I have seen an 185 Amp Oxford Arc Welder locally. Would this suit my
needs?

It would eat up your budget and leave you with something that's
useless on anything less than 1/8" plate and only really useful for
over 1/4". Neither sort of metal being the sort of stuff you can cut
witht the tools budget you'd have left over.

Yup - MIG will weld thin plate, ARC (stick) won't.

Alan.

Heds wrote:
Hi,

I am looking at buying a welder and would appreciate some advice on
which type to get.

My budget is limited to around the £50 mark, and it will be used for
mostly artistic work & small repairs, nothing requiring any perfect seams.

I used to weld years ago with an Oxy and Mig, although I found the
plasma cutter to be the most fun, this was at the Edinburgh Sculpture
Workshops so I had access to all of their equipment.

I have seen an 185 Amp Oxford Arc Welder locally. Would this suit my needs?

Thank you for your help.


/Heds

Thanks for all your advice.

So I should look for a MIG rather than an ARC. Next question is: Gas or
Gas less? I don't really fancy the trouble of bottles and the associated
space they would take up so I think gas less would be best.

I already have an angle grinder, disks, snips etc so that is not part of
my budget. I only need the welder, flip down mask and gloves.

Re going back to the workshops, I live in Surrey now and have not found
anything similar. Also I don't have the time to make full use of the
membership so it would be a bit of a waste.


thanks,


/Heds

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 19:24:43 +0100, Heds
hedleyDOTphillips@SPAMcomsaDOTcoDOTuk wrote:

Thanks for all your advice.

So I should look for a MIG rather than an ARC. Next question is: Gas or
Gas less? I don't really fancy the trouble of bottles and the associated
space they would take up so I think gas less would be best.

I already have an angle grinder, disks, snips etc so that is not part of
my budget. I only need the welder, flip down mask and gloves.

Re going back to the workshops, I live in Surrey now and have not found
anything similar. Also I don't have the time to make full use of the
membership so it would be a bit of a waste.

Hi,

Get a gas MIG, look at the prices of normal vs flux core wire and bear
in mind you'll need more of the flux cored stuff:

http://www.johndavies.co.uk/nminiwire.htm

The budget gas MIGs are set up to take small disposable cylinders, but
can use full size ones with the right adapter. I would have thought a
gas MIG can use flux cored wire too with no problems.

Would be well worth getting some scrap or spare metal to practice
with, and some course notes or a decent book on welding.

BTW How thick is the metal you're welding?

cheers,
Pete.

Pete C wrote:

So I should look for a MIG rather than an ARC. Next question is: Gas or
Gas less? I don't really fancy the trouble of bottles and the associated
space they would take up so I think gas less would be best.

Re going back to the workshops, I live in Surrey now and have not found
anything similar. Also I don't have the time to make full use of the
membership so it would be a bit of a waste.


Hi,

Get a gas MIG, look at the prices of normal vs flux core wire and bear
in mind you'll need more of the flux cored stuff:

The budget gas MIGs are set up to take small disposable cylinders, but
can use full size ones with the right adapter. I would have thought a
gas MIG can use flux cored wire too with no problems.

MigTigArc Portsmouth are useful, inside I'd use gas, outside gasless,
most will handle gasless fluxed wire, with the right sized tip!

Heds wrote:
Heds wrote:

Thanks for all your advice.

So I should look for a MIG rather than an ARC. Next question is: Gas
or

Youve only got 50 notes, and you wont get anything but arc for that.

Arc is cheap to buy and dead cheap on electrodes (from 25p). The
downsides are 2:
the weld is a mess and needs a cleanup
it takes a bit of practice to get the stick waggling right. Expect
problems for the first 1/2 to 1 hour with arcs going out, and workpiece
not heated enough.

Gasless wire is very nice to use, but you wont get anything for =A350,
and the wire is expensive too. =A39 a reel isnt huge but it adds up with
reel after reel, theres not much on one reel.
Advantages:
easy, 5 minutes practice is enough
welds are clean, no need to bash the crap off them afterwards.


Since youve got 50, its arc. Dont touch the 185A one, it'll vapourise
anything you work on instantly.

The one issue I always notice with budget welders is current control
that doesnt go low enough. You need one that goes down to 15A at the
most, I dont think Ive ever needed to use as much as 40A. The brochures
promote huge currents, but thats just not whats needed, especially for
lightweight work. You could probably build a house structure with 40A.


NT

In article , "Heds"
hedleyDOTphillips@SPAMcomsaDOTcoDOTuk says...
snip

So I should look for a MIG rather than an ARC. Next question is: Gas or
Gas less? I don't really fancy the trouble of bottles and the associated
space they would take up so I think gas less would be best.

I bought a dual gas/gasless MIG a while ago, having had a
conventional gas MIG before. I still haven't tried it with gas
because gasless has been good enough for the stuff that I do, and
less hassle. Some stuff will still need gas, so keep your options
open - it probably only makes a small difference to the price.

Pete C wrote:
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 19:24:43 +0100, Heds
hedleyDOTphillips@SPAMcomsaDOTcoDOTuk wrote:

snip
BTW How thick is the metal you're welding?

cheers,
Pete.

Only a few millimeters, maybe some scaffolding poles/foot plates, bits
of scrap I pick up from skips.

I used to mainly just use 2-3mm steel plate.

/Heds

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 22:58:09 +0100, Heds
hedleyDOTphillips@SPAMcomsaDOTcoDOTuk wrote:

maybe some scaffolding poles

Don't waste your time on scaff pipe. It's galvanised, which means
lousy welds and a headache afterwards. You can scrounge better
materials.

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 22:58:09 +0100, Heds
hedleyDOTphillips@SPAMcomsaDOTcoDOTuk wrote:

Only a few millimeters, maybe some scaffolding poles/foot plates, bits
of scrap I pick up from skips.

I used to mainly just use 2-3mm steel plate.

Hi,

In that case an arc welder should do, especially for overlapping 'lap'
joints. Maybe worth hiring or borrowing one first and practising on
some scrap to see how it goes.

Well worth reading up on how to weld, if welding galvanised or rusty
steel it needs to be ground back to clean steel first. Also keep the
welding rods dry, dry them out in an oven if necessary.

A local welding supplier should be a cheaper place to buy rods than
somewhere like Halfords or a tool hire place, plus be a good source of
advice.

cheers,
Pete.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 22:58:09 +0100, Heds
hedleyDOTphillips@SPAMcomsaDOTcoDOTuk wrote:

maybe some scaffolding poles

Don't waste your time on scaff pipe. It's galvanised, which means
lousy welds and a headache afterwards. You can scrounge better

Add an angle grinder for some 6 quid, and the galvanising just goes away.

In message , Ian
Stirling writes
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 22:58:09 +0100, Heds
hedleyDOTphillips@SPAMcomsaDOTcoDOTuk wrote:

maybe some scaffolding poles

Don't waste your time on scaff pipe. It's galvanised, which means
lousy welds and a headache afterwards. You can scrounge better

Add an angle grinder for some 6 quid, and the galvanising just goes away.

You just became an honorary member of UKRM, all you need is a bike


--
geoff

raden wrote:
In message , Ian
Stirling writes
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 22:58:09 +0100, Heds
hedleyDOTphillips@SPAMcomsaDOTcoDOTuk wrote:

maybe some scaffolding poles

Don't waste your time on scaff pipe. It's galvanised, which means
lousy welds and a headache afterwards. You can scrounge better

Add an angle grinder for some 6 quid, and the galvanising just goes away.

You just became an honorary member of UKRM, all you need is a bike

Railway Maintainance?

Prefer my transport to have at least enough wheels to define a plane.

On 08 Apr 2005 00:02:34 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:

maybe some scaffolding poles

Add an angle grinder for some 6 quid, and the galvanising just goes away.

Prefer my transport to have at least enough wheels to define a plane.

Welds things out of galved scaff ? Wants enough wheels to define a
plane ?

Oh fishes, he's a trike builder !

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 08 Apr 2005 00:02:34 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:

maybe some scaffolding poles

Add an angle grinder for some 6 quid, and the galvanising just goes away.

Prefer my transport to have at least enough wheels to define a plane.

Welds things out of galved scaff ? Wants enough wheels to define a
plane ?

Oh fishes, he's a trike builder !

Actually, I prefer a nice car. My welding is (at the moment) limited
to blowing large holes in wheelbarrows.

In message , Ian
Stirling writes
raden wrote:
In message , Ian
Stirling writes
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 22:58:09 +0100, Heds
hedleyDOTphillips@SPAMcomsaDOTcoDOTuk wrote:

maybe some scaffolding poles

Don't waste your time on scaff pipe. It's galvanised, which means
lousy welds and a headache afterwards. You can scrounge better

Add an angle grinder for some 6 quid, and the galvanising just goes away.

You just became an honorary member of UKRM, all you need is a bike

Railway Maintainance?

Prefer my transport to have at least enough wheels to define a plane.


So do you need 4 wheels on an angle grinder too ?


--
geoff

In message , Andy Dingley
writes
On 08 Apr 2005 00:02:34 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote:

maybe some scaffolding poles

Add an angle grinder for some 6 quid, and the galvanising just goes away.

Prefer my transport to have at least enough wheels to define a plane.

Welds things out of galved scaff ? Wants enough wheels to define a
plane ?

Oh fishes, he's a trike builder !

No, a physicist (IIRC)
--
geoff

Ian Stirling wrote:

Actually, I prefer a nice car. My welding is (at the moment) limited
to blowing large holes in wheelbarrows.

thats the trouble with thin metal. Lower amps can help, but theres only
so thin one can go with welding. If you want to stick anything thinner,
try brazing it.

NT

wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:

Actually, I prefer a nice car. My welding is (at the moment) limited
to blowing large holes in wheelbarrows.

thats the trouble with thin metal. Lower amps can help, but theres only
so thin one can go with welding. If you want to stick anything thinner,
try brazing it.

I was trying to 'fix' a 1cm long gash.
As I diddn't have adequate illumination, I tried using a lighter shade
of goggle.

Hence, I could see nothing, and half a second later there was a small hole.
Of course, I then made almost enough progress in parts to convince
myself that it was getting smaller - it wasn't.

With better illumination, I managed to fix one.
I'm going to try clamping on a patch of thicker metal, then seeing
if I can weld that on.

In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:
As I diddn't have adequate illumination, I tried using a lighter shade
of goggle.

Hence, I could see nothing, and half a second later there was a small
hole. Of course, I then made almost enough progress in parts to convince
myself that it was getting smaller - it wasn't.

Get an auto dimming helmet - essential for beginners.

With better illumination, I managed to fix one.

I'm going to try clamping on a patch of thicker metal, then seeing
if I can weld that on.

In my limited experience patching is easy. It's butt welding the thin
stuff that gives me grief. And exactly what I want to do for car bodywork
repairs. ;-(

--
*Life is hard; then you nap

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Ian Stirling wrote:
As I diddn't have adequate illumination, I tried using a lighter shade
of goggle.

Hence, I could see nothing, and half a second later there was a small
hole. Of course, I then made almost enough progress in parts to convince
myself that it was getting smaller - it wasn't.

Get an auto dimming helmet - essential for beginners.

I think I can get by with a 500W floodlight 10cm from the workpiece,
which is actually adequate light to see the workpiece, even after the
arc is struck.

In message
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
[snip]

In my limited experience patching is easy. It's butt welding the thin
stuff that gives me grief. And exactly what I want to do for car bodywork
repairs. ;-(

From what I remember of a spell in a bodyshop, butt welding car panels
is usually ineffective, forming a join that is weak, and prone to
cracking. It was (then) more usual to form a swage, and lap joint the
affected panel, and spot welding down the lap. Properly leaded up (yes,
lead, not that plastic pudding stuff) afterwards, repairs such as these
could be a thing of great satisfaction, and sometimes even beauty :-)

--
Jim White
Wimbledon London England

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In my limited experience patching is easy. It's butt welding the thin
stuff that gives me grief. And exactly what I want to do for car
bodywork
repairs. ;-(

why butt weld? The usual thing is to overlap and weld, after dishing
the metal in slightly. I dont think I'd even try to butt weld thin
stuff.

There are some people that could use butt welding... but thats another
story.


NT