I recently picked up two nice older indicators on Ebay; one analog, one
digital. It seems that older indicators tend to go fairly cheaply
(especially true if they are not Starrett or Mitutoyo or another big
name). My question is this -- what common problems might be found with
such older units and what cautions should apply to cleaning them up?
Thanks!

On 13 Oct 2005 11:08:49 -0700, "Dave" wrote:

I recently picked up two nice older indicators on Ebay; one analog, one
digital. It seems that older indicators tend to go fairly cheaply
(especially true if they are not Starrett or Mitutoyo or another big
name). My question is this -- what common problems might be found with
such older units and what cautions should apply to cleaning them up?
Thanks!
I like older Mitutoyo 1" travel indicators. I haven't bought a new one
for a long time but if they're still made the same then the older ones
are good. Indicators branded "Westhoff" used to be made by Mitutoyo.
They may still be. The Mitutoyo test indicators should be avoided.
Things to look for when buying a used travel indicator:
Check the fit of the moving rod. There should be no discernable
side play.
Check to see if thickened oil is making it drag.
The sleeves the rod runs in, which are attached to the body of the
indicator, can be knocked out of alignment. This will prevent the rod
from moving without drag. They can be pushed back into alignment. If
this is done too many times they will get loose. So grab the indicator
body and apply gentle pressure to the sleeve and see if the rod starts
to drag.
Check for smooth travel of the rod. Look for grit in the gear teeth
on the rod and the gear that rides on the rod. These teeth should not
be visible without removing the back of the indicator. So there should
be no way for chips to get in there. But they do. Osmosis or
something. You know, less chips inside, more chips outside, so the
chip pressure is higher outside and they pass through the indicator
case in an attempt to equalize the chip pressure.
Inside is a thin, short, rod with a spring attached that is pressed
into the moving rod. They can become loose. This can be fixed with the
careful use of loctite.
Someone may have taken apart the indicator and not put it back
together with the backlash removed. The gear train is spring loaded
such that the gear that rides against the rod is always trying to push
the rod out. This is how the lash is removed. The indicator can be put
together without the proper loading of the gear train.
Finally, the hands may not be tight on their shafts. Check this by
first setting the indicator to zero and then tapping the tip of the
indicator sharply with your finger. Don't go overboard though. The
hand should return to zero. It's harder to see if the little hand is
loose but they almost never get loose. But the big hands do. So if the
big hand is a little loose it will lose or gain motion in the same
direction so that it will get farther and farther away from zero. If
it's really loose it will end up on either side of zero depending on
how hard you tap the indicator.
Well, lunch is over and I can't think of anything else.
ERS

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:54:03 -0700, Eric R Snow wrote:

Check to see if thickened oil is making it drag.

Once that starts happening, what is the fix? I've got two which are
a bit...sludgy... one a Starett, the other a Mitotoyo. Can't use 'em,
can't sell 'em, and certainly can't toss 'em.

Dave Hinz wrote in news:3r7slrFi6vhvU1
@individual.net:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:54:03 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:

Check to see if thickened oil is making it drag.

Once that starts happening, what is the fix? I've got two which are
a bit...sludgy... one a Starett, the other a Mitotoyo. Can't use 'em,
can't sell 'em, and certainly can't toss 'em.



Either IsoPropol Alcohol, or Acetone will take care of the problem. Be
sure to use some 3 in 1 oil on them after cleaning.

--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

Either IsoPropol Alcohol, or Acetone will take care of the problem. Be
sure to use some 3 in 1 oil on them after cleaning.


are you sure? that oil may be a bit too think I think it should be as
light as possible

we the lighter fluid evaporates it will leave a light oil on the rod

"Dave" wrote in message
ups.com...
I recently picked up two nice older indicators on Ebay; one analog, one
digital. It seems that older indicators tend to go fairly cheaply
(especially true if they are not Starrett or Mitutoyo or another big
name). My question is this -- what common problems might be found with
such older units and what cautions should apply to cleaning them up?
Thanks!

Erik Litchy wrote in news:dimqjj01uv7
@enews2.newsguy.com:


are you sure? that oil may be a bit too think I think it should be as
light as possible

hrm...
Not been a problem so far with the 10,000 or so indicators we have in the
plant...ymmv...


--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

This was posted on RCM quite a while ago so you guys may be aware of
this already, but if not check out this site:

http://longislandindicator.com/index.html

It is for Long Island Indicator. Scroll down to the "Do it yourself"
section for great DIY info. Tons of other interesting, useful and
specific info on their pages. They sell parts and tools to fix such
things, too.

All standard disclaimers apply, no connection, not even a customer,
just like their website, weight not volume, blah, blah, blah...

Hope that helps.
-AL A.

"Anthony" wrote in message
...
Dave Hinz wrote in news:3r7slrFi6vhvU1
@individual.net:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:54:03 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:

Check to see if thickened oil is making it drag.

Once that starts happening, what is the fix? I've got two which are
a bit...sludgy... one a Starett, the other a Mitotoyo. Can't use 'em,
can't sell 'em, and certainly can't toss 'em.


Either IsoPropol Alcohol, or Acetone will take care of the problem. Be
sure to use some 3 in 1 oil on them after cleaning.


Most commonly available isopropyl alcohol contains a fair amount of water,
typically around 30%. I wouldn't use it for cleaning a precision tool.

Acetone will do the job if you are able to soak the part. But trying to
apply acetone with a swab will be frustrating because the acetone evaporates
so quickly, that you might not get enough saturation to effectively
dissolve, dilute, and remove the gum. Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) is a little
better as it does not evaporate as quickly as acetone. But the biggest
problem with using either acetone or MEK is that they are too aggressive:
they will remove paint (e.g., the coloring in the engraved numbers on a
micrometer) and they will damage plastic parts (e.g., the lens on your
indicator). Also, acetone/MEK will strip the metal parts of ALL protective
oils, so if you don't immediately re-oil (and cover every spot) you run the
risk of rust (lack of barrier film and water displacement) and wear (lack of
lubrication).

I use fresh, high-quality kerosene for removing gummed-up oil from tools and
instruments. It evaporates very slowly, so you can apply a small amount with
a swab and give it time to dissolve the gum/varnish. And because it's a mild
solvent, you can soak parts if necessary. Either way, there's little risk of
damaging any paint or plastic. And afterwards, the kerosene leaves a light
(temporary) protective oily film behind, giving you time to properly oil the
parts.

Regards,
Michael

"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...

The Mitutoyo test indicators should be avoided.

Why is that? I have a Mitutoyo DTI and find it to be a very fine instrument.

- Michael

The most common problems are out-of-time (the hands don't correspond
to the right positions -- internal gear slippage), stripped rack or
pinion gear, or jammed due to dirt. The Starrett indicators are
pretty good, Ames are more rugged, and CDI are pretty but not as
well made. I have less experience with the imports. Since you
really can't get sperm whale oil anymore, you have to use a good
synthetic lubricant. Get some watchmaker's oil.

Dave wrote:
I recently picked up two nice older indicators on Ebay; one analog, one
digital. It seems that older indicators tend to go fairly cheaply
(especially true if they are not Starrett or Mitutoyo or another big
name). My question is this -- what common problems might be found with
such older units and what cautions should apply to cleaning them up?
Thanks!

In article ,
Mike Berger wrote:

really can't get sperm whale oil anymore, you have to use a good
synthetic lubricant. Get some watchmaker's oil.

or dextron...

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

DONT USE ALCOHOL TO CLEAN ANY METAL INSTRUMENT!!!
Acohol contains water and rust follows when it is used.
If you do clean the old oil out, don'r forget to put some new oil on all of
the bearings or you will shortly have a dead instrument.

--
Why do penguins walk so far to get to their nesting grounds?

The cheap fix is to remove the old oil yourself and relubricate. However,
this does mean that you have to disassemble the instrument all the way and
that can be fun if you don't know how they go together. I use the LaBelle
brand oils (model railroading lubricants) to lubricate my instruments.
If you can't find a machinist type instrument repair place, a watch repair
place can usually do the job. He's got the cleaning stuff as well as the
oils to lubricate the instrument as well as all of the tools needed to do
the work.

--
Why do penguins walk so far to get to their nesting grounds?

In article , Bob May says...

The cheap fix is to remove the old oil yourself and relubricate. However,
this does mean that you have to disassemble the instrument all the way and
that can be fun if you don't know how they go together.

Really you need a microscope to really see what's going on in those.

Often the sore point is the 'mainspring' that preloads the mechanism.
It's frequently held in place with a pin or a swaging that's tough
to get apart, and back together, unless you can really see what's
going on. One also needs to inspect the jewels and pivots carefully
to be sure they're not damaged, and ultrasonic the parts in some
solvent.

I like to re-lubricate the jewels with ATF actually. I use a 0.003
inch diameter piece of copper wire bent into a tiny loop at the
end to hold just about the right amount of oil to hit the bearing
with.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"DeepDiver" wrote:
"Anthony" wrote in message

Either IsoPropol Alcohol, or Acetone will take care of the problem. Be
sure to use some 3 in 1 oil on them after cleaning.

Most commonly available isopropyl alcohol contains a fair amount of water,
typically around 30%. I wouldn't use it for cleaning a precision tool.

Then it is not isopropyl alcohol; it is 70 percent isopropyl alcohol,
commonly sold as "rubbing alcohol". Isopropyl alcohol specifies just that,
isopropyl alcohol, not a dilution thereof.

Jon

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
"DeepDiver" wrote:
"Anthony" wrote in message

Either IsoPropol Alcohol, or Acetone will take care of the problem. Be
sure to use some 3 in 1 oil on them after cleaning.

Most commonly available isopropyl alcohol contains a fair amount of
water,
typically around 30%. I wouldn't use it for cleaning a precision tool.

Then it is not isopropyl alcohol; it is 70 percent isopropyl alcohol,
commonly sold as "rubbing alcohol". Isopropyl alcohol specifies just
that,
isopropyl alcohol, not a dilution thereof.


Excuse me for not being more precise. Allow me to re-phrase my statement:
Most commonly available isopropyl alcohol SOLUTIONS contains a fair amount
of water. Better?

I don't know what Anthony has available in his shop, but I'll wager that
very few people here have ready access to 100% reagent-grade isopropyl
alcohol. For many people, the recommendation to use "isopropyl alcohol"
would simply imply that they go down to the drug store and buy a bottle of
"Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol" which would be a poor choice for cleaning
precision instruments. That was the cogent point of my original post.

- Michael

"DeepDiver" wrote:
"Jon Danniken" wrote:
"DeepDiver" wrote:
"Anthony" wrote in message

Either IsoPropol Alcohol, or Acetone will take care of the problem.
Be
sure to use some 3 in 1 oil on them after cleaning.

Most commonly available isopropyl alcohol contains a fair amount of
water,
typically around 30%. I wouldn't use it for cleaning a precision tool.

Then it is not isopropyl alcohol; it is 70 percent isopropyl alcohol,
commonly sold as "rubbing alcohol". Isopropyl alcohol specifies just
that,
isopropyl alcohol, not a dilution thereof.


Excuse me for not being more precise. Allow me to re-phrase my statement:
Most commonly available isopropyl alcohol SOLUTIONS contains a fair amount
of water. Better?

Solutions of IPA are specified as to the percentage of alcohol contained
within. In other words, looking at the label witll reveal the percentage of
alcohol contained in the bottle, and allow the consumer to not have to guess
at the contents.

I don't know what Anthony has available in his shop, but I'll wager that
very few people here have ready access to 100% reagent-grade isopropyl
alcohol. For many people, the recommendation to use "isopropyl alcohol"
would simply imply that they go down to the drug store and buy a bottle of
"Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol" which would be a poor choice for cleaning
precision instruments. That was the cogent point of my original post.

As with many things, there is a tolerance within which the best results are
achievd. That having been said, I doubt that reagent-grade solvents are
required for this application, which is de-gooping a mechanism. Then again,
I usually use white gas, so draw your own conclusions.

I would therefore assume that 99% IPA whould suffice for the intended usage.
This is readily available online, and likely available locally as well - my
local drugstore sells it by the pint for a couple bucks.. If you really do
desire a higher purity, many electronics supply stores do sell 99.953%
anhydrous IPA (GC 824 line), although it is a bit pricy.

Assuming the extremes of either 70 percent solution or reagent grade
chemical is a bit too wide of a swing, don't you think?

Jon

DeepDiver wrote:
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

Then it is not isopropyl alcohol; it is 70 percent isopropyl alcohol,
commonly sold as "rubbing alcohol". Isopropyl alcohol specifies
just that, isopropyl alcohol, not a dilution thereof.

Excuse me for not being more precise. Allow me to re-phrase my
statement: Most commonly available isopropyl alcohol SOLUTIONS
contains a fair amount of water. Better?

I don't know what Anthony has available in his shop, but I'll
wager that very few people here have ready access to 100% reagent-
grade isopropyl alcohol. For many people, the recommendation to
use "isopropyl alcohol" would simply imply that they go down to
the drug store and buy a bottle of "Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol"
which would be a poor choice for cleaning precision instruments.
That was the cogent point of my original post.

How about using desalinated prune juice? See;

http://www.cartalk.com/content/colum...cember/04.html

In article , Anthony says...

Either IsoPropol Alcohol, or Acetone will take care of the problem. Be
sure to use some 3 in 1 oil on them after cleaning.

3 in 1 oil sucks. Gums all like crazy.

Better is ATF, non-gumming, long term stability is good.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 15 Oct 2005 12:37:42 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, jim rozen
quickly quoth:

In article , Anthony says...

Either IsoPropol Alcohol, or Acetone will take care of the problem. Be
sure to use some 3 in 1 oil on them after cleaning.

3 in 1 oil sucks. Gums all like crazy.

Better is ATF, non-gumming, long term stability is good.

Ditto with MMO.


-------------------------------------------------------------
* * Humorous T-shirts Online
* Norm's Got Strings * Wondrous Website Design
* * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------------------