If I understand correctly, what I need to do hand scraping is:
(1) a piece of metal to scrape
(2) a 3 cornered scraper
(3) bench level with milled surfaces (instead of an expensive surface plate)
(4) Prussian blue oil paint

This would just be for practice. I wouldn't be planning to use the resulting
scraped piece metal for anything at this point. Since it is only for practice,
I don't know what size I should get. Presumably it should be steel, since
I am interested in possibly building a Gingery lathe someday, but Gingery
mentions that some of the cast aluminum parts will also require scraping.

I can order a flat piece of steel to scrape from a steel supply house.
I don't know if I can simply walk to my neighborhood hardware store to
get a 3 cornered scraper; even if they have 3 cornered scrapers, I'm so
ignorant that I wouldn't know if it is suitable for metal or whether for
some reason it should only be used on wood. I might have to order it,
which would involve shipping costs and maybe minimum orders. Ditto for
a suitable bench level with milled surfaces; but since it is just for
practice, maybe it doesn't matter what level I use. Blue oil paint I
can get from a local art supply store, probably for 5 or 10 dollars.

What I would like to know is how much the total ought to cost if I do it
as cheaply as possible and where I ought to get it from in order to achieve
that minumum.

It occurs to me that I might also have to consider getting some kind of
grinder in case the scraper gets worn. Maybe at my present level of commitment
and competence, it would be more cost effective just to get a spare scraper.

One reason this particular exercise appeals to me is that, unlike practically
any other metal working project I can think of, it can easily be done in an
apartment without using much space and without making a mess (at least I
think not), and is probably rock bottom in terms of cost. Another is that
it really is a very basic skill which I'll need to develop sooner or later.
If it happens that there are other metal working activities one can do safely
and neatly in a tiny apartment for practically no money, I'd be glad to know
about them.

Ignorantly,
Allan Adler


************************************************** **************************
* *
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *
* Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *
* in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *
* metropolitan area. *
* *
************************************************** **************************

I don't know if I can simply walk to my neighborhood hardware store to
get a 3 cornered scraper; even if they have 3 cornered scrapers, I'm so
ignorant that I wouldn't know if it is suitable for metal or whether for
some reason it should only be used on wood. I might have to order it,
which would involve shipping costs and maybe minimum orders.

It occurs to me that I might also have to consider getting some kind of
grinder in case the scraper gets worn. Maybe at my present level of
commitment
and competence, it would be more cost effective just to get a spare scraper.



The 3 cornered scraper is used more for bearings or bur removal than for flat
scraping. You want an end-cutting scraper, available in steel or carbide edge.
Looks like a flat file, with the end ground to a very slight arc at 90 degrees
or close to it. Some users make them from old files.

For sharpening, you'll need a bench grinder and an oilstone.

John Martin

"Allan Adler" wrote in message
...

If I understand correctly, what I need to do hand scraping is:
(1) a piece of metal to scrape
(2) a 3 cornered scraper
(3) bench level with milled surfaces (instead of an expensive surface
plate)
(4) Prussian blue oil paint

This would just be for practice. I wouldn't be planning to use the
resulting
scraped piece metal for anything at this point. Since it is only for
practice,
I don't know what size I should get. Presumably it should be steel, since
I am interested in possibly building a Gingery lathe someday, but Gingery
mentions that some of the cast aluminum parts will also require scraping.

I can order a flat piece of steel to scrape from a steel supply house.
I don't know if I can simply walk to my neighborhood hardware store to
get a 3 cornered scraper; even if they have 3 cornered scrapers, I'm so
ignorant that I wouldn't know if it is suitable for metal or whether for
some reason it should only be used on wood. I might have to order it,
which would involve shipping costs and maybe minimum orders. Ditto for
a suitable bench level with milled surfaces; but since it is just for
practice, maybe it doesn't matter what level I use. Blue oil paint I
can get from a local art supply store, probably for 5 or 10 dollars.

What I would like to know is how much the total ought to cost if I do it
as cheaply as possible and where I ought to get it from in order to
achieve
that minumum.

It occurs to me that I might also have to consider getting some kind of
grinder in case the scraper gets worn. Maybe at my present level of
commitment
and competence, it would be more cost effective just to get a spare
scraper.

One reason this particular exercise appeals to me is that, unlike
practically
any other metal working project I can think of, it can easily be done in
an
apartment without using much space and without making a mess (at least I
think not), and is probably rock bottom in terms of cost. Another is that
it really is a very basic skill which I'll need to develop sooner or
later.
If it happens that there are other metal working activities one can do
safely
and neatly in a tiny apartment for practically no money, I'd be glad to
know
about them.

Ignorantly,
Allan Adler



Three cornered scrapers are used for scraping inside diameters, such as
bushings, and for deburring. They are a favorite amongst machinists. The
type scraper you're looking for would be a long, straight device (about 18"
long or so), which could be either carbide or HSS on the end. The end,
which does the scraping, has a slight curvature along its edge. Scrapers
have a nice palm type handle on the opposite end.

Scraping, while possible on steel, is mostly accomplished on gray cast iron,
which is the material of choice for machine tool construction because of its
relatively low cost, but more importantly, because of its characteristics,
which lend themselves extremely well to machine tools. Cast gray iron is a
super bearing surface, and has very good damping characteristics,
preventing, or minimizing chatter (vibration).

There are good books available that cover scraping. I'd suggest you do
some research and invest in one, which would enlighten you as to procedures
and proper equipment. You'll discover that a surface plate is essential
for flat surfaces, a level alone won't hack it.

Scraping is not really the domain of the typical machinist. I worked in
machine shops for almost my entire adult life and saw scraping done only
once, that not by a machinist, but by a maintenance man, who restored a
small Gorton mill which would otherwise had been worthless. With new
screws and nuts, the machine turned out beautifully and was extremely
accurate.

The home shop type seems to enjoy getting involved in scraping, which is
likely a good idea because old worn machines can be refurbished enough to
offer further life, a good thing for those of us on limited budgets.

Good luck with your venture!

Harold

First purchase you might consider is a book or two on the subject. Do a
search on hand scraping and you should find numerous articles from this
forum on the subject. The standard text on the subject I believe is
still " Machine Tool Reconditioning " by Edward F. Connelly. Check your


This is a great book. Its subject is how to recondition machines. It assumes
the reader already knows how to hand srape in a surface - very little in it
on the actual scraping process.

Karl

Check out -

http://www.leydonrestorations.com/Zw...92pursang.html

http://www.antiquetools.com/scrape/index.html

http://www.dapra.com/biax/scrapers/index.html

I bought my stuff directly from Dapra.

Steve.


"Allan Adler" wrote in message
...

If I understand correctly, what I need to do hand scraping is:
(1) a piece of metal to scrape
(2) a 3 cornered scraper
(3) bench level with milled surfaces (instead of an expensive surface
plate)
(4) Prussian blue oil paint

This would just be for practice. I wouldn't be planning to use the
resulting
scraped piece metal for anything at this point. Since it is only for
practice,
I don't know what size I should get. Presumably it should be steel, since
I am interested in possibly building a Gingery lathe someday, but Gingery
mentions that some of the cast aluminum parts will also require scraping.

I can order a flat piece of steel to scrape from a steel supply house.
I don't know if I can simply walk to my neighborhood hardware store to
get a 3 cornered scraper; even if they have 3 cornered scrapers, I'm so
ignorant that I wouldn't know if it is suitable for metal or whether for
some reason it should only be used on wood. I might have to order it,
which would involve shipping costs and maybe minimum orders. Ditto for
a suitable bench level with milled surfaces; but since it is just for
practice, maybe it doesn't matter what level I use. Blue oil paint I
can get from a local art supply store, probably for 5 or 10 dollars.

What I would like to know is how much the total ought to cost if I do it
as cheaply as possible and where I ought to get it from in order to
achieve
that minumum.

It occurs to me that I might also have to consider getting some kind of
grinder in case the scraper gets worn. Maybe at my present level of
commitment
and competence, it would be more cost effective just to get a spare
scraper.

One reason this particular exercise appeals to me is that, unlike
practically
any other metal working project I can think of, it can easily be done in
an
apartment without using much space and without making a mess (at least I
think not), and is probably rock bottom in terms of cost. Another is that
it really is a very basic skill which I'll need to develop sooner or
later.
If it happens that there are other metal working activities one can do
safely
and neatly in a tiny apartment for practically no money, I'd be glad to
know
about them.

Ignorantly,
Allan Adler



************************************************** **************************
*
*
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial
*
* Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect
*
* in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston
*
* metropolitan area.
*
*
*

************************************************** **************************

On 13 Oct 2003 11:54:19 -0400, Allan Adler wrote:
If I understand correctly, what I need to do hand scraping is:
(1) a piece of metal to scrape
(2) a 3 cornered scraper
(3) bench level with milled surfaces (instead of an expensive surface plate)
(4) Prussian blue oil paint

A 3 corner scraper is used to scrape or deburr internal holes (diameters).
It is not used to scrape flat surfaces. For scraping flat surfaces, you need
something that looks more like a paint scraper, except that the handle
will be stronger and longer, and the cutter blade will be high speed steel
or a tungsten carbide insert.

You can grind the end of an old file to the correct profile to make a
cheap scraper, though the high carbon steel won't hold up as well as
a carbide insert, and the file body may be too brittle to withstand the
required pressure. You could also make a holder for a carbide insert,
though that would require a bit more work. You can buy commercial
scrapers, though it is a bit of a specialized tool and you may have to
search a bit to find one.

Gary

"Allan Adler" wrote in message
...

If I understand correctly, what I need to do hand scraping is:
(1) a piece of metal to scrape
(2) a 3 cornered scraper
(3) bench level with milled surfaces (instead of an expensive surface
plate)
(4) Prussian blue oil paint

This would just be for practice. I wouldn't be planning to use the
resulting
scraped piece metal for anything at this point. Since it is only for
practice,
I don't know what size I should get. Presumably it should be steel, since
I am interested in possibly building a Gingery lathe someday, but Gingery
mentions that some of the cast aluminum parts will also require scraping.

I can order a flat piece of steel to scrape from a steel supply house.
I don't know if I can simply walk to my neighborhood hardware store to
get a 3 cornered scraper; even if they have 3 cornered scrapers, I'm so
ignorant that I wouldn't know if it is suitable for metal or whether for
some reason it should only be used on wood. I might have to order it,
which would involve shipping costs and maybe minimum orders. Ditto for
a suitable bench level with milled surfaces; but since it is just for
practice, maybe it doesn't matter what level I use. Blue oil paint I
can get from a local art supply store, probably for 5 or 10 dollars.

What I would like to know is how much the total ought to cost if I do it
as cheaply as possible and where I ought to get it from in order to
achieve
that minumum.

It occurs to me that I might also have to consider getting some kind of
grinder in case the scraper gets worn. Maybe at my present level of
commitment
and competence, it would be more cost effective just to get a spare
scraper.

One reason this particular exercise appeals to me is that, unlike
practically
any other metal working project I can think of, it can easily be done in
an
apartment without using much space and without making a mess (at least I
think not), and is probably rock bottom in terms of cost. Another is that
it really is a very basic skill which I'll need to develop sooner or
later.
If it happens that there are other metal working activities one can do
safely
and neatly in a tiny apartment for practically no money, I'd be glad to
know
about them.

I've read (but can't confirm from personal experience) that a carbide
scraping blade is much preferred to a HSS blade. Apparently the HSS blades
require *very* frequent sharpening. Perhaps someone here that does have
experience with both carbide and HSS blades will chime in with their
opinion.


Ignorantly,
Allan Adler



************************************************** **************************
*
*
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial
*
* Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect
*
* in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston
*
* metropolitan area.
*
*
*

************************************************** **************************

First purchase you might consider is a book or two on the subject. Do a
search on hand scraping and you should find numerous articles from this
forum on the subject. The standard text on the subject I believe is
still " Machine Tool Reconditioning " by Edward F. Connelly. Check your
local used book stores and online. A new one will set you back almost a
$100. Also somewhere in this forum a person was writing and/or making a
video tape on the subject. Google should have it archived. A little more
homework is in order.

Keep plugging

Jim Vrzal
Holiday,FL.


Allan Adler wrote:
If I understand correctly, what I need to do hand scraping is:
(1) a piece of metal to scrape
(2) a 3 cornered scraper
(3) bench level with milled surfaces (instead of an expensive surface plate)
(4) Prussian blue oil paint

This would just be for practice. I wouldn't be planning to use the resulting
scraped piece metal for anything at this point. Since it is only for practice,
I don't know what size I should get. Presumably it should be steel, since
I am interested in possibly building a Gingery lathe someday, but Gingery
mentions that some of the cast aluminum parts will also require scraping.

I can order a flat piece of steel to scrape from a steel supply house.
I don't know if I can simply walk to my neighborhood hardware store to
get a 3 cornered scraper; even if they have 3 cornered scrapers, I'm so
ignorant that I wouldn't know if it is suitable for metal or whether for
some reason it should only be used on wood. I might have to order it,
which would involve shipping costs and maybe minimum orders. Ditto for
a suitable bench level with milled surfaces; but since it is just for
practice, maybe it doesn't matter what level I use. Blue oil paint I
can get from a local art supply store, probably for 5 or 10 dollars.

What I would like to know is how much the total ought to cost if I do it
as cheaply as possible and where I ought to get it from in order to achieve
that minumum.

It occurs to me that I might also have to consider getting some kind of
grinder in case the scraper gets worn. Maybe at my present level of commitment
and competence, it would be more cost effective just to get a spare scraper.

One reason this particular exercise appeals to me is that, unlike practically
any other metal working project I can think of, it can easily be done in an
apartment without using much space and without making a mess (at least I
think not), and is probably rock bottom in terms of cost. Another is that
it really is a very basic skill which I'll need to develop sooner or later.
If it happens that there are other metal working activities one can do safely
and neatly in a tiny apartment for practically no money, I'd be glad to know
about them.

Ignorantly,
Allan Adler


************************************************** **************************
* *
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *
* Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *
* in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *
* metropolitan area. *
* *
************************************************** **************************



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In article , Gary Coffman says...

You can grind the end of an old file to the correct profile to make a
cheap scraper, though the high carbon steel won't hold up as well as
a carbide insert, and the file body may be too brittle to withstand the
required pressure.

Again, he should be aware that many modern files are case
hardened. Grinding off the teeth will give a soft scraper.


You could also make a holder for a carbide insert,
though that would require a bit more work. You can buy commercial
scrapers, though it is a bit of a specialized tool and you may have to
search a bit to find one.

The standard hand scrapers are sold inexpensively through
McMaster Carr. That's where I got mine. The HSS blade
is sharpenable on a regular pedestal grinder, the carbide
one really requires a diamond wheel to do properly.

Another approach to life is to simply take a *large* HSS toolbit
and mount to a piece of stock. That's what I did for my first
foray into hand scraping. One advantage to a small scraper like
that is you can get into the nooks and crannies:

http://www.geocities.com/noramm10566/47slide3.jpg

It's tough to do small stuff with a large, wide scraper.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Check out

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ub...ML/000041.html

I stumbled across it an hour or so after reading your post. Talk about
synchronicity, eh?

chem

Allan Adler wrote:
If I understand correctly, what I need to do hand scraping is:
(1) a piece of metal to scrape
(2) a 3 cornered scraper
(3) bench level with milled surfaces (instead of an expensive surface plate)
(4) Prussian blue oil paint

This would just be for practice. I wouldn't be planning to use the resulting
scraped piece metal for anything at this point. Since it is only for practice,
I don't know what size I should get. Presumably it should be steel, since
I am interested in possibly building a Gingery lathe someday, but Gingery
mentions that some of the cast aluminum parts will also require scraping.

I can order a flat piece of steel to scrape from a steel supply house.
I don't know if I can simply walk to my neighborhood hardware store to
get a 3 cornered scraper; even if they have 3 cornered scrapers, I'm so
ignorant that I wouldn't know if it is suitable for metal or whether for
some reason it should only be used on wood. I might have to order it,
which would involve shipping costs and maybe minimum orders. Ditto for
a suitable bench level with milled surfaces; but since it is just for
practice, maybe it doesn't matter what level I use. Blue oil paint I
can get from a local art supply store, probably for 5 or 10 dollars.

What I would like to know is how much the total ought to cost if I do it
as cheaply as possible and where I ought to get it from in order to achieve
that minumum.

It occurs to me that I might also have to consider getting some kind of
grinder in case the scraper gets worn. Maybe at my present level of commitment
and competence, it would be more cost effective just to get a spare scraper.

One reason this particular exercise appeals to me is that, unlike practically
any other metal working project I can think of, it can easily be done in an
apartment without using much space and without making a mess (at least I
think not), and is probably rock bottom in terms of cost. Another is that
it really is a very basic skill which I'll need to develop sooner or later.
If it happens that there are other metal working activities one can do safely
and neatly in a tiny apartment for practically no money, I'd be glad to know
about them.

Ignorantly,
Allan Adler


************************************************** **************************
* *
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *
* Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *
* in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *
* metropolitan area. *
* *
************************************************** **************************

Hi Allan:

There are several strata in scraping. It is possible to spend a very
significant amount of money.

I would not proceed without a known reference - straight edge or surface
plate. The often on sale 10x12 surface plates from Enco would not be a bad
investment. I purchased a used DoAll surface plate, and an Enco. I had them
certified and the Enco plate needed a bit of touching up to get back to
grade 'B' - this after I used it for a poor man's surface grinder ala Guy
Lautard's book. Even at that, grade 'B' surface plates are tight enough for
scraping.

Cast iron is far easier to scrape than steel. That's what I would practice
on.

Prussian blue works pretty good. I would add a rubber brayer to the tool
list.

Enco makes an Anderson Bros' tubular scraper handle clone. They have
replacable HSS inserts. HSS does require fairly constant maintenance, but
carbide & the ability to grind it can be pretty spendy.

Books are good for some, but seeing the scraping action was an eye-opener.
Just watching it happen made things easier to understand.

Having a reference on scraping, reading the spots and possibly more
importantly, how to detect when you're not making progress, all help.

Scraping is addictive.

In article , John Hofstad-Parkhill says...

Prussian blue works pretty good. I would add a rubber brayer to the tool
list.

Oooh. Another widget. What's a 'brayer?'

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , John Hofstad-Parkhill
says...

Prussian blue works pretty good. I would add a rubber brayer to the tool
list.

Oooh. Another widget. What's a 'brayer?'

I believe it's a small rubber roller - Hobby Lobby sells them.

When I went thru the text, I didn't get the impression the author
assumed the reader was experienced in scraping. Chapters 5 and 6
explained the tools and techniques to use them. Chapter 10 and 11 covers
the markings and how to interpret them. While many of the chapters are
specific to reworking machine surfaces, their are many tips and
techniques a novice could gain knowledge or explain problems dispersed
throughout the text. A dry read for sure, but the reader will come away
from it with more than an understanding of just the hand scraping process.

My 2 cents

Jim Vrzal
Holiday,FL.

Karl Townsend wrote:
First purchase you might consider is a book or two on the subject. Do a
search on hand scraping and you should find numerous articles from this
forum on the subject. The standard text on the subject I believe is
still " Machine Tool Reconditioning " by Edward F. Connelly. Check your



This is a great book. Its subject is how to recondition machines. It assumes
the reader already knows how to hand srape in a surface - very little in it
on the actual scraping process.

Karl






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To expand on Mikes answer ...

They are rubber rollers that are used in printing to spread ink on platens (I
think that is the word).

They are great, though you need to get a good/expensive one. The cheap ones
are not round (not a real issue) or straight (a problem).

Vince

Mike Henry wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , John Hofstad-Parkhill
says...

Prussian blue works pretty good. I would add a rubber brayer to the tool
list.

Oooh. Another widget. What's a 'brayer?'

I believe it's a small rubber roller - Hobby Lobby sells them.

Dapra sells them


--
Tony

Visit TonysToolroom for info on Precision Scraping.
***Now with Powerscraping***

Don't skive that belt before you visit my flatbelt page!

http://www.csgnet.net/toolroom/

Spammers Beware : Your entering the No-Spam zone
**** Protected by Mailwasher **** www.mailwasher.net
Caution:Bouncing Spam: Eye protection required!
"Vince Iorio" wrote in message
...
To expand on Mikes answer ...

They are rubber rollers that are used in printing to spread ink on platens
(I
think that is the word).

They are great, though you need to get a good/expensive one. The cheap
ones
are not round (not a real issue) or straight (a problem).

Vince

Mike Henry wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , John
Hofstad-Parkhill
says...

Prussian blue works pretty good. I would add a rubber brayer to the
tool
list.

Oooh. Another widget. What's a 'brayer?'

I believe it's a small rubber roller - Hobby Lobby sells them.

In article , Vince Iorio says...

They are rubber rollers that are used in printing to spread ink on platens (I
think that is the word).

They are great, though you need to get a good/expensive one. The cheap ones
are not round (not a real issue) or straight (a problem).

Oooh. Another widget. What's a 'brayer?'

I believe it's a small rubber roller - Hobby Lobby sells them.

Ah. Thanks guys.

I've been just carefully spreading the bluing on the
surface plate with gloved hands.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================