Hey, guys, sorry for the OT post. I don't initiate many such threads,
hope you can be tolerant, this is the most likely group I contribute
to where folks could offer decent advice.

What is the situation like in typical Little League and similar
baseball leagues in the US and Canada? Do you have 9-year olds being
blackballed by high level people, pressure groups of parents dictating
terms to coaches (and that being tolerated by the overall management
levels, with the same people on multiple levels?).. and mediocrity
being awarded with loyalty and hard work penalized?

Little league is not very strong here in Ontario, but their list of
rules and so on looks pretty well thought out. I don't know how well
they are implemented. Presumably as America's national sport, all the
possible problems have been encountered and dealt with. Or perhaps
not. What's your opinion?

Unfortunately, the situation seems a lot murkier (unpleasant, vicious
etc.) in C*BA/S*BA. I'm just wondering if this is a function of the
level (AAA) of the sport my kid has been playing and the ambitions of
parents (and thus widespread, and something I have to deal with or get
out), or if it's a specific failure of the organizations in this
geographic area-- where hockey and soccer more dominate the landscape.

The organizational structure of these groups is on a par with pre-war
Iraq in terms of concentration of powers (and possibly some of the
personality types as well).

My knowlege in this area is quite limited- I've avoided both the
sports and most dysfunctional organizations.

Any comments, advice etc? Thanks, guys, this is really gnawing at me.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Spehro, both Little League and chlildren's hockey are becoming serious
problems here in the US, not because of the kids but because of their
parents.

Some of these parents lose sight of the fact that both of these are
simply recreational activities for the children, disrupting the games
and even attacking officials and other parents. I suspect alcohol
consumption is heavily involved, because the majority of these parents
are ordinarily responsible, law abiding citizens.

Although competitive sports can be sometimes benefical for children,
the actions of their parents today tend to compromise this benefit by
the very poor example that they set.

My children are all raised and educated, but today I wouldn't even
consider allowing them to participate in Little League baseball or
hocky since by observing the actions of their parents, their values in
life could and likely would become distorted and perverted.

Times have changed. When my children were of Little League age I
encouraged their participation, but today I wouldn't urge them in this
direction since most organized children's athletics have become so
ridiculously perverted by their parent's zeal.

My suggestion would be to ban all parents from attendance at both
Little League and organized soccer or hockey competitions. Let the kids
work off a little excess energy and have fun. That's what it's all
about. It is the parents that cause all of the problems.

Just my observation and opinion.

Harry C.

Spehro, just a followup to my last post...

Given the situation you describe, I'd pull my children out of the
activity immediately and encourage their involvement in the Scouts, the
science club at school, stagecraft groups including community player
organizations and just about anything except organized children's
athletic activities.

I suppose I am a bit of a nerd, but it worked both for me and my
children. The turning point was my involvement in baseball. I was a
suppose what you today would call a power hitter, since I was pretty
strong as a result of my after-school work in a hardware store... When
anything approaching a valid pitch was thrown against me, I could
consistently knock it out of the school yard fence which was
traditionally a home run, but since I was not one of the 'Elite'
citizens of the town, the rules were changed so that if you hit the
ball over the school yard fence, it was an automatic OUT. Dhuh!

You've got to understand the politics of the situation (which I suspect
that you can already guess). Lets just say that I originated from 'the
wrong side of the tracks' while most of the competition where the sons
of school board members or equally connected. In childrens athletics
ability and performance is not the deciding factor, how well your
father or mother is connectes is.

My reaction was to say 'f**k you' to highschool baseball, never mind
the petty squables that took place in Little League and Babe Ruth
baseball which had worse corruption problems.

Probably was a good thing that I said 'f**k you' to organized athletic
activities and devoted my after work energies to more productive
things. As a reslut now, if I pooled by resources I could probably buy
and sell the entire petty and provincial town in which I was raised if
I wanted to, which I don't.

Perhaps I should thank the coach that originated the rule that "if you
hit the ball over the school yard fence, you're out), because it is
very unlikely that I would be in the position that I enjoy today at the
age of 67 had I not told this guy and his rules to 'go f**k themselves'
and never became involved in organized sports again!

Today I hate organized sports of any kind, and tend to dismiss all of
them as being simply another form of masturbation -- entirely pointless
activities. Better to hand your kid over the the Marines, let him take
his own chances, develop character, and learn to be a man! Assuming
that he survices, he will be a better person for it.

Kindest regards, Harry C.

On 21 Sep 2005 22:23:13 -0700, the renowned wrote:

Spehro, both Little League and chlildren's hockey are becoming serious
problems here in the US, not because of the kids but because of their
parents.

Some of these parents lose sight of the fact that both of these are
simply recreational activities for the children, disrupting the games
and even attacking officials and other parents. I suspect alcohol
consumption is heavily involved, because the majority of these parents
are ordinarily responsible, law abiding citizens.

Although competitive sports can be sometimes benefical for children,
the actions of their parents today tend to compromise this benefit by
the very poor example that they set.

My children are all raised and educated, but today I wouldn't even
consider allowing them to participate in Little League baseball or
hocky since by observing the actions of their parents, their values in
life could and likely would become distorted and perverted.

Times have changed. When my children were of Little League age I
encouraged their participation, but today I wouldn't urge them in this
direction since most organized children's athletics have become so
ridiculously perverted by their parent's zeal.

My suggestion would be to ban all parents from attendance at both
Little League and organized soccer or hockey competitions. Let the kids
work off a little excess energy and have fun. That's what it's all
about. It is the parents that cause all of the problems.

Just my observation and opinion.

Harry C.

Harry, I appreciate it. Apparently the vicious SOB who's head of both
the local association and the overall organization (conflicting roles,
but adding to power) did actually verbally threaten to blackball an
8-year old - that they'll never get anwhere in the organization- if
his mom on the executive mouthed off about how he handles things. And
we've ended up as one of his targets, for no good reason.

Unfortunately, our kid defines a large part of himself as a good ball
player with an MLB dream, and this is really hurting him. Have to find
some way to get to a better situation.

I thought sports was supposed to keep kids out of trouble, not show
them how to stab people in the back.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Hey Speff,

Next to religion, you're involved in what I personally believe to be
the single enterprise in life that brings out the best in many, but
absolutely the WORST in EVERYONE. Children's sports.

Bunch of years back, I did a fair bit of umpiring in the Windsor area.
My son had elected to play soccer (about which I know nussing), and I
thought I'd do my "bit" and help out with doing the baseball and
fastball.

The stories here are legion, as they say. From BOTH those. My son's
coach had to be hauled off the field by the local police, all the
while screaming that the assistant coach was a "@($&^%@#*()$ TRAITOR
and should be hung" because he stayed behind to coach the 10 year-old
kids!

And the umpiring showed me a whole different side of some people too,
of both sexes, I thought were OK before. And with-out a doubt, the
older the players got, the less of this crap there was. It is more of
a mothering syndrome I think. Everything from the simple stuff of
mother/father/other-family-member screaming in your face that
their/the-other-guys kid had been called safe/out through some
perceived favoritism/discrimination for/against the PARENT!!! to rage
against the coach because he had set aside a certain helmet for
"Little Joey/Joanie" to wear because "Little Joey/Joanie" had
head-lice, and it was centering "Little Joey/Joanie" out to the other
kids!!..... to having managers/coaches telling the big kid on their
team to get in their and HURT the kid on the other team that was too
good...... to constant arguments over kids ages and right to belong on
THAT team. Make you puke.

And don't you recall the parent being charged after beating the crap
out of a hockey coach a few years ago somewhere in TO?

C'est la guerre! Non, c'est la GUERRE!!

Yep, be ready, go watch some games and get your kid on the team with
the nicest coach under pressure, and with the least bullies as his
team-mates. One way to do that is to volunteer to help. Then we'll
see how Speff does!

The little town I live in now, about 1,000 people, has at least a 20%
factor of folks who won't-speak-to/hate/despise one another due to
some sports politics and diplomacies (or lack of) over the years as
Members of the Optimist Club different sports programs. Nobody,
except the kids, recalls who won or lost the games and season, but the
adults do remember the wars!!

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:02:31 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

Hey, guys, sorry for the OT post. I don't initiate many such threads,
hope you can be tolerant, this is the most likely group I contribute
to where folks could offer decent advice.

What is the situation like in typical Little League and similar
baseball leagues in the US and Canada? Do you have 9-year olds being
blackballed by high level people, pressure groups of parents dictating
terms to coaches (and that being tolerated by the overall management
levels, with the same people on multiple levels?).. and mediocrity
being awarded with loyalty and hard work penalized?

Little league is not very strong here in Ontario, but their list of
rules and so on looks pretty well thought out. I don't know how well
they are implemented. Presumably as America's national sport, all the
possible problems have been encountered and dealt with. Or perhaps
not. What's your opinion?

Unfortunately, the situation seems a lot murkier (unpleasant, vicious
etc.) in C*BA/S*BA. I'm just wondering if this is a function of the
level (AAA) of the sport my kid has been playing and the ambitions of
parents (and thus widespread, and something I have to deal with or get
out), or if it's a specific failure of the organizations in this
geographic area-- where hockey and soccer more dominate the landscape.

The organizational structure of these groups is on a par with pre-war
Iraq in terms of concentration of powers (and possibly some of the
personality types as well).

My knowlege in this area is quite limited- I've avoided both the
sports and most dysfunctional organizations.

Any comments, advice etc? Thanks, guys, this is really gnawing at me.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

You are walking on dangerous ground here.

"Children's Sports" are an area in America where the
psychopathology of our society/culture is most overt. The
changes over the last 20 years have been profound and not for the
better.

This appears to be a situation best handled with your hat - you
grab it and run.

While your child will not appreciate not being allowed to
participate in [over] organized sports, these involve "over
achiever" parents who expect their children to serve as proxies
for them in attaining the "success", they are failing to attain
in their jobs. Participation will almost inevitably result in
the acquisition of highly undesirable attitudes and perceptions
almost guaranteed to cause problems in their adult life, as well
as being a major PITA for you while they are at home.





On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:02:31 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

Hey, guys, sorry for the OT post. I don't initiate many such threads,
hope you can be tolerant, this is the most likely group I contribute
to where folks could offer decent advice.

What is the situation like in typical Little League and similar
baseball leagues in the US and Canada? Do you have 9-year olds being
blackballed by high level people, pressure groups of parents dictating
terms to coaches (and that being tolerated by the overall management
levels, with the same people on multiple levels?).. and mediocrity
being awarded with loyalty and hard work penalized?

Little league is not very strong here in Ontario, but their list of
rules and so on looks pretty well thought out. I don't know how well
they are implemented. Presumably as America's national sport, all the
possible problems have been encountered and dealt with. Or perhaps
not. What's your opinion?

Unfortunately, the situation seems a lot murkier (unpleasant, vicious
etc.) in C*BA/S*BA. I'm just wondering if this is a function of the
level (AAA) of the sport my kid has been playing and the ambitions of
parents (and thus widespread, and something I have to deal with or get
out), or if it's a specific failure of the organizations in this
geographic area-- where hockey and soccer more dominate the landscape.

The organizational structure of these groups is on a par with pre-war
Iraq in terms of concentration of powers (and possibly some of the
personality types as well).

My knowlege in this area is quite limited- I've avoided both the
sports and most dysfunctional organizations.

Any comments, advice etc? Thanks, guys, this is really gnawing at me.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Hey, Speff- how about the recent finals, in which the boys' teams'
travel from BC was paid by the association, but the girls' team had
to pay their own way? They both paid the same fees all year...

and I tried umping several decades ago, but didn't like the abuse
from parents, especially mothers. And that was then - I can't
imagine what it would be like now... / mark on Salt Spring Island BC

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:51:53 -0500, the renowned F. George McDuffee
wrote:

You are walking on dangerous ground here.

"Children's Sports" are an area in America where the
psychopathology of our society/culture is most overt. The
changes over the last 20 years have been profound and not for the
better.

I don't remember any of this cr*p from my youth ( 20 years ago) ;-)

This appears to be a situation best handled with your hat - you
grab it and run.

Yes, a strategic retreat from the front, or a lateral move in search
of firmer gound seems to be in order.

While your child will not appreciate not being allowed to
participate in [over] organized sports, these involve "over
achiever" parents who expect their children to serve as proxies
for them in attaining the "success", they are failing to attain
in their jobs.

Bingo. That fits *exactly*. It's the folks with the dead-end jobs and
no hobbies other than sucking down beers while complaining who are the
immediate source of the difficulties. Along with weak and
dysfunctional organizational structures ill-equipped to deal with the
resulting pressures and problems in a positive way.

Participation will almost inevitably result in
the acquisition of highly undesirable attitudes and perceptions
almost guaranteed to cause problems in their adult life, as well
as being a major PITA for you while they are at home.

They're *not* doing their kids any favors, IMHO. It's the opposite of
what it should be. They're raising their kids to be the office snitch
or to be the guy who goes after his bosses job by discrediting him
behind his back, rather than earning a promotion. I really regret
helping him to get involved to the degree he is, but maybe it's
important to learn some unsavory things about the world too.

Thanks for the thoughtful remarks, George.
I think a consensus is emerging here.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:33:15 -0700, the renowned Mark
wrote:

Hey, Speff- how about the recent finals, in which the boys' teams'
travel from BC was paid by the association,

That was the US-based Little League. I have a feeling they're a WAY
better run organization than I'm used to.

but the girls' team had
to pay their own way? They both paid the same fees all year...

Not very fair.

and I tried umping several decades ago, but didn't like the abuse
from parents, especially mothers. And that was then - I can't
imagine what it would be like now... / mark on Salt Spring Island BC

Even the 13 year old kids who do it seem to have pretty thick skins. I
tried it during an informal game (can't play, so I umped) and have
much more respect now for the guys who do it.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

snipI really regret
helping him to get involved to the degree he is, but maybe it's
important to learn some unsavory things about the world too.
===========================
This is a major problem with the increasingly rapid societal
changes. For all practical purposes, it is impossible for a
parent to earn a living and stay up-to-date on items of
importance to their children such as school curriculum content
and "organized sports." This problem is exacerbated when the
income of two parents is required, for example to save for
college, with work eliminating much of the opportunity for
informal information sharing and networking between neighborhood
parents.

What was once a great advantage for the grandparent, may have
been an equivocal advantage for the parent, and now may be an
actual liability for the child.

You are to be commended for cold-bloodily looking at the facts of
the current/actual situation and reaching your own conclusion.
It is a solution I frequently suggest to my students and clients,
but one, which unfortunately, is seldom acted on.

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:45:12 -0400, the renowned Brian Lawson
wrote:

Hey Speff,

Next to religion, you're involved in what I personally believe to be
the single enterprise in life that brings out the best in many, but
absolutely the WORST in EVERYONE. Children's sports.

Bunch of years back, I did a fair bit of umpiring in the Windsor area.
My son had elected to play soccer (about which I know nussing), and I
thought I'd do my "bit" and help out with doing the baseball and
fastball.

What do you think about a man (not me) being told by the top honcho in
the organization that if he didn't do xxx immediately his kid would
*never* be able to play AAA ball (would be permanently blacklisted)?

In my case, my kid (who you've met, here and in Detroit, if you
recall) *has* been blacklisted.

Yep, be ready, go watch some games and get your kid on the team with
the nicest coach under pressure, and with the least bullies as his
team-mates. One way to do that is to volunteer to help. Then we'll
see how Speff does!

Helped, did my best to be supportive and a straight arrow, but it
didn't help, just the opposite. The culture rewards backstabbing.
Isn't that what these "island" reality shows are about (I don't watch
much tv)?

The little town I live in now, about 1,000 people, has at least a 20%
factor of folks who won't-speak-to/hate/despise one another due to
some sports politics and diplomacies (or lack of) over the years as
Members of the Optimist Club different sports programs.

Yow. But I can believe it! Sad, isn't it.

Nobody,
except the kids, recalls who won or lost the games and season, but the
adults do remember the wars!!

Thanks for the perspective, Brian. IMHO, if it's done right, the kids
shouldn't remember 95% of the games/seasons but they should remember
their teammates and the hotels and the fun times.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Hey again Speff,

Yes, I do recall meeting your son (Jack??). When you first posed the
question, I thought that you were referring to some-one a bit younger,
so I slanted my "answer" towards a lower age group.

Of course, when any of these organizations start up, there is always a
conflict at some point, and one of the outcomes is usually a second
"league" forms, just as in the majors of any sport. Is that not
available there in TO? I'd be very surprised if it's not. In
Windsor, there were at least two, and one was called "Little Big
League" as I recall.
Take a tape-recorder to a meeting with the jerk. Send it to a local
radio station. Or even get the TV/radio guys to show up for a human
interest story. Ink-on-a-page/film-at-11 is amazing stuff!! Get a
reporter to do some investigating. Do a documentary. If all else has
failed, shake the gates.
And of course, you could always run for office against this assh*le
that would threaten such things, and have him voted out.
I don't know what help you might get from "The Canadian Federation of
Amateur Baseball", http://www.baseball.ca/eng, but they should be
the best way to go, especially if your already "blacklisted". And if
you saw the article that Eddie Greenspan wrote about Dick Pound
versus Lance Armstrong recently in the newspaper, he sounds heated
enough to maybe help you out.
Will your son be going to college/university soon? That's also a good
way for him to get picked up by an MLB scout, especially if he goes to
a US college. Maybe even write to the ML team that "owns" your AAA
team, and explain the situation. At this point, it can't hurt.

Take care.

Brian.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:40:01 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:45:12 -0400, the renowned Brian Lawson
wrote:

Hey Speff,

Next to religion, you're involved in what I personally believe to be
the single enterprise in life that brings out the best in many, but
absolutely the WORST in EVERYONE. Children's sports.

Bunch of years back, I did a fair bit of umpiring in the Windsor area.
My son had elected to play soccer (about which I know nussing), and I
thought I'd do my "bit" and help out with doing the baseball and
fastball.

What do you think about a man (not me) being told by the top honcho in
the organization that if he didn't do xxx immediately his kid would
*never* be able to play AAA ball (would be permanently blacklisted)?

In my case, my kid (who you've met, here and in Detroit, if you
recall) *has* been blacklisted.

Yep, be ready, go watch some games and get your kid on the team with
the nicest coach under pressure, and with the least bullies as his
team-mates. One way to do that is to volunteer to help. Then we'll
see how Speff does!

Helped, did my best to be supportive and a straight arrow, but it
didn't help, just the opposite. The culture rewards backstabbing.
Isn't that what these "island" reality shows are about (I don't watch
much tv)?

The little town I live in now, about 1,000 people, has at least a 20%
factor of folks who won't-speak-to/hate/despise one another due to
some sports politics and diplomacies (or lack of) over the years as
Members of the Optimist Club different sports programs.

Yow. But I can believe it! Sad, isn't it.

Nobody,
except the kids, recalls who won or lost the games and season, but the
adults do remember the wars!!

Thanks for the perspective, Brian. IMHO, if it's done right, the kids
shouldn't remember 95% of the games/seasons but they should remember
their teammates and the hotels and the fun times.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
| Hey, guys, sorry for the OT post. I don't initiate many such threads,
| hope you can be tolerant, this is the most likely group I contribute
| to where folks could offer decent advice.
|
| What is the situation like in typical Little League and similar
| baseball leagues in the US and Canada? Do you have 9-year olds being
| blackballed by high level people, pressure groups of parents dictating
| terms to coaches (and that being tolerated by the overall management
| levels, with the same people on multiple levels?).. and mediocrity
| being awarded with loyalty and hard work penalized?

Behavior that is condoned or tolerated in any way, shape, or form is
essentially the same thing as encouraging it, therefore the league and the
coaches are the big difference in determining whether that happens or not.
I know one fellow who told me that his local league moved the bleachers to
the outfield where they wouldn't be so much of an influence on the kids, and
I kinda like the places (My kids play soccer, football, volleyball,
basketball, and others I can't remember right now) where the parents of
opposing teams wind up mixed together, and I make it a point to comment well
on good sportsmanship or a good play by even the opposing team. This tends
to go over really well, and I've made some good friends this way, plus it
leads by example.
So, the trick is to talk to the league leadership and ask how they deal
with it. I really hate to see kids lose out on account of parents who can't
control themselves. When I see opposing players helping each other out when
hurt or other sign of great sportsmanship, that tells me that all hope is
not lost. One kid, after flattening his opponent on the basketball court,
knelt down and starting praying for him. Needless to say, I was impressed.
I should add that my kids usually play with religiously affiliated teams, so
that tends to help out a lot. Our referees have no problem calling a parent
on unnecessary behavior, and are told that it is within their right to expel
the parent from the game area if necessary.

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:37:55 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:33:15 -0700, the renowned Mark
wrote:

Hey, Speff- how about the recent finals, in which the boys' teams'
travel from BC was paid by the association,

That was the US-based Little League. I have a feeling they're a WAY
better run organization than I'm used to.

but the girls' team had
to pay their own way? They both paid the same fees all year...

Not very fair.

and I tried umping several decades ago, but didn't like the abuse
from parents, especially mothers. And that was then - I can't
imagine what it would be like now... / mark on Salt Spring Island BC

Even the 13 year old kids who do it seem to have pretty thick skins. I
tried it during an informal game (can't play, so I umped) and have
much more respect now for the guys who do it.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

It ain't (or wasn't) all bad. I ran the Challenger League for three
years in Texas because my oldest has cerebral palsy and is moderately
retarded. Since we were not competitive, I didn't have to pay any
attention to all the politics in the player draft, etc. Basically, if
the child was between three and eighteen and handicapped, I made room.

I did have a few idiots that thought their handicapped kid would "do
better" if we kept score. I explained as patiently as I could that I
didn't care if the kids did better or not, we were there just to have
fun, and they'd probably improve as a side benefit.

The league was always supportive, and after they saw us the first
couple of times, started vying to get invited as helpers. I would
pick one major league team at a time to help, and explain that their
job was to make sure the handicapped kids got to do as much as they
could, and that the major league team was to help them do it. We'd
bat around until the kids were too tired. For most of them, that was
two or three innings, depending on how hot it was, and how many showed
up. Everybody always scored, and everybody won. We always had packed
stands, and the audience had a blast rooting them on.

One mother came up to me several weeks after her son had helped. She
said she had an amazing conversation with him a few days after the
game. He told her that while he was helping, he began to realize that
although all our kids had physical or mental problems of all types,
every one of them was having a blast. "Mom, I finally figured out
this game is supposed to be fun!" Man, that was a sad commentary on
the rest of the program.

My middle son's team was the first to be "helpers" because his coach
asked if he could help. That team must have had a similar revelation,
because before they helped, they had only won one game, and after they
didn't lose. Basically, they started to have fun and play ball.

It's amazing what a little perspective can do.

Pete Keillor

Too late for your situation, but when my son was younger, we avoided all of
this when we got involved in karting and then later in RC car racing. One
thing I noticed was that these sports were different from Little League or
soccer because there were grownups participating, so kids and grownups were
equals.

I was so proud when I first saw my 9 year old telling a grown up Dell
engineer why his kart wasn't handling right...

Now he has gone off to college in an automotive engineering program...

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:54:46 GMT, the renowned "Emmo"
wrote:

Too late for your situation, but when my son was younger, we avoided all of
this when we got involved in karting and then later in RC car racing. One
thing I noticed was that these sports were different from Little League or
soccer because there were grownups participating, so kids and grownups were
equals.

I was so proud when I first saw my 9 year old telling a grown up Dell
engineer why his kart wasn't handling right...

Now he has gone off to college in an automotive engineering program...

Love it. The kid has not shown much interest in electronic or
mechanical stuff yet, but he's a little young for it yet. I think all
you can do is provide opportunities and see which ones stick.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:31:31 -0400, the renowned Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:37:55 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:33:15 -0700, the renowned Mark
wrote:

snip
One mother came up to me several weeks after her son had helped. She
said she had an amazing conversation with him a few days after the
game. He told her that while he was helping, he began to realize that
although all our kids had physical or mental problems of all types,
every one of them was having a blast. "Mom, I finally figured out
this game is supposed to be fun!" Man, that was a sad commentary on
the rest of the program.

My middle son's team was the first to be "helpers" because his coach
asked if he could help. That team must have had a similar revelation,
because before they helped, they had only won one game, and after they
didn't lose. Basically, they started to have fun and play ball.

It's amazing what a little perspective can do.

Pete Keillor

Even in the regular leagues, I notice that an unusually large
proportion of the kids have some kind of behavioral issue. In some
cases (single mothers), a coach might be the most influential and
continuing male presence in some years of a boy's life. If it's not
fun, it's time to find something else, unless one is pursuing a BB
scholarship or whatever.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com