I like Hewlett Packard calculators. I have two HP32SII's and a 42S,
have worn out several others over the years since the HP-35, the
first scientific handheld calculator with trig functions and all. I
felt lucky as hell to find one of those used at $135, in the early
'70s when that was more than a house payment. That's when I retired
my trusty Post Versalog slide rule. I also have an HP48G but I've
never liked it much. Too damned complicated for everyday use.

One 32SII has been my shop/lab workhorse for over a decade. The
buttons are still legible, all but one anyway. Lately some of the
buttons got to be intermittent. Got out the "backup" 32SII I
spotted (and glommed) in a bookshop years ago after HP had quit
making them. There were none to be had here but this bookshop was
on a back street in Ghent, Belgium.

Same keyboard problem with it, though it has about no "miles" on it.
Oh, darn! Got out the 42S which I'd been hoarding because I
*really* like that calculator. Same thing. Ooooooo nooooooo!

Battery voltages all looked fine. I put new batteries in one anyway.
No help.

Then I recalled that one of my fishing sonars got wierd earlier this
year after a 1-week fishin' trip where it rained nearly every day.
One might think that a boat gadget would be weatherproof, right?
Maybe it was when new 6 years ago.

I'd bagged the sonar with a 1-oz desiccant pack for a few days. That
fixed it, as expected.

Mmmm (you can see it coming already, right?) I bagged the
calculators in a ziplock with a desiccant pack. Three days later,
they all work perfectly.

I'm gonna start using the 42S now. It's in brand-new condition but
it probably won't be for long, with everyday use in the shop/lab. What
the hell, I'm gonna enjoy it while I can still see it.

The 32SII's will be transferred to a screw-top jar with a coupla
desiccant paks.

Don Foreman wrote:

I like Hewlett Packard calculators.

Me to. And I still want my HP 16C back that someone was stolen from me.

It would trade it for a HP 28


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 01:41:57 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:


One 32SII has been my shop/lab workhorse for over a decade. The
buttons are still legible, all but one anyway. Lately some of the
buttons got to be intermittent. Got out the "backup" 32SII I
spotted (and glommed) in a bookshop years ago after HP had quit
making them. There were none to be had here but this bookshop was
on a back street in Ghent, Belgium.


The 32S II problem is the contacts from the keyboard to the circuit
board. They've got a fairly standard flexible printed circuit
connector held down with foam in them. This gets a little bit of
corrosion on it and the connection gets wonky. The real problem is
that HP made these calculators really difficult to take apart. If you
do try to take one apart there's some melted plastic post type
connections under the keyboard metal cover. Of course there's the rub
because taking glued on cover off without hurting it is a little
tricky. I did mine and got it to function 100% again. But I've never
gotten around to doing a proper reglue of the metal cover. I've just
got some clips bent from wire holding it down. Not the most elegant
but it's doing the job so far.

I got the replacement 33s this last week. Some nice features but who
ever did the keyboard layout should be shot. It's also just a little
bit larger than the 32S II and does not fit in a shirt pocket as well.
I wish I could get another couple of 32S II without paying the
ridiculous going price on ebay. That's got to be the best shop
calculator ever made.

I still miss my old 31E. It had all the important functions in a
uncluttered keyboard.

After looking at a picture of the 42s I bet it's the same as the 32s
II on the problem. I agree with the complication. I had it's
predecessor the 41CV and never liked it at all.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
I like Hewlett Packard calculators. I have two HP32SII's and a 42S,
....


To me, this is like saying I'd rather drive my car in reverse on the
freeway. Does HP still use that RPN logic? What on earth is the reason for
it and WHY would anyone like it? ( I know - I'm just troolling)

Karl

I still have, love, and use my 15C, although I admit I also use a TI-83Plus now
which is neat because it graphs. Nobody can beat the early HP user interface,
though, and that includes the later HP group that made the model 28s. What a
POS, it was like having to learn a whole new programming language to use the thing.

Very neat idea about the baggie and desiccant, Don. Keep us posted. - GWE

Don Foreman wrote:
I like Hewlett Packard calculators. I have two HP32SII's and a 42S,
have worn out several others over the years since the HP-35, the
first scientific handheld calculator with trig functions and all. I
felt lucky as hell to find one of those used at $135, in the early
'70s when that was more than a house payment. That's when I retired
my trusty Post Versalog slide rule. I also have an HP48G but I've
never liked it much. Too damned complicated for everyday use.

One 32SII has been my shop/lab workhorse for over a decade. The
buttons are still legible, all but one anyway. Lately some of the
buttons got to be intermittent. Got out the "backup" 32SII I
spotted (and glommed) in a bookshop years ago after HP had quit
making them. There were none to be had here but this bookshop was
on a back street in Ghent, Belgium.

Same keyboard problem with it, though it has about no "miles" on it.
Oh, darn! Got out the 42S which I'd been hoarding because I
*really* like that calculator. Same thing. Ooooooo nooooooo!

Battery voltages all looked fine. I put new batteries in one anyway.
No help.

Then I recalled that one of my fishing sonars got wierd earlier this
year after a 1-week fishin' trip where it rained nearly every day.
One might think that a boat gadget would be weatherproof, right?
Maybe it was when new 6 years ago.

I'd bagged the sonar with a 1-oz desiccant pack for a few days. That
fixed it, as expected.

Mmmm (you can see it coming already, right?) I bagged the
calculators in a ziplock with a desiccant pack. Three days later,
they all work perfectly.

I'm gonna start using the 42S now. It's in brand-new condition but
it probably won't be for long, with everyday use in the shop/lab. What
the hell, I'm gonna enjoy it while I can still see it.

The 32SII's will be transferred to a screw-top jar with a coupla
desiccant paks.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:26:04 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT to reply wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
I like Hewlett Packard calculators. I have two HP32SII's and a 42S,
...


To me, this is like saying I'd rather drive my car in reverse on the
freeway. Does HP still use that RPN logic? What on earth is the reason for
it and WHY would anyone like it? ( I know - I'm just troolling)


That's just because you've never really tried it long enough to get
used to it. Once you've use RPN for a while you quickly realize that
it's the best method of inputting data into a calculator out there. I
learned it when doing UIL calculator competition. In competition if
you didn't us RPN you was working with a handy cap that had to be
overcome if you wanted to win. It took more keystrokes, more time
studying the problem before entering (so that you made sure you
started in the right place), more memory on your part (to remember the
exact steps and number of "(" you'd entered), more everything. With
RPN you just started entering and used the stack to manipulate the
problem as needed during entry.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

I like my 2 11Cs. The earliest is now 23 years old and still going
strong. I have always used RPN as my dad let me use the 45 when he
upgraded to a 41C. I have 2 11Cs as I lost the first, it was later
returned. I thanked the guy that found it and his comment was "nice
calculator, I would have kept it if I could figure out how to use it."

Karl Townsend wrote:

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .

I like Hewlett Packard calculators. I have two HP32SII's and a 42S,

...


To me, this is like saying I'd rather drive my car in reverse on the
freeway. Does HP still use that RPN logic? What on earth is the reason for
it and WHY would anyone like it? ( I know - I'm just troolling)

Karl

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:26:04 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT to reply wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
I like Hewlett Packard calculators. I have two HP32SII's and a 42S,
...


To me, this is like saying I'd rather drive my car in reverse on the
freeway. Does HP still use that RPN logic? What on earth is the reason for
it and WHY would anyone like it? ( I know - I'm just troolling)

Karl


Present offerings can run in RPN or traditional mode.

RPN is useful because it eliminates parentheses. Once learned, it is
much easier to calculate complex expressions (without error) with RPN.
You do the innermost calculations (deepest level of parentheses)
first, intermediate results go on the stack, and so on.

I've been using RPN for so long I have trouble with a regular
calculator. If I don't have an HP handy I let my wife (former
beancounter) do the calculating. I don't really "need" RPN anymore,
but it's what I'm used to and comfortable with.

The advent of the PC has changed things. I now do complex
expressions in MathCAD because I can see the whole expression (and
input errors) on the screen -- and it's easy to use repetitively just
by changing a variable. It's too bad that MathCAD has gotten so
expensive with a surfeit of features. The first versions for $49
that came on one or two floppies did nearly everything I ever want to
do with it.

I wish APL (Ted Edwards' favorite) were available for Windows at
reasonable price. (I would consider $49.95 as "reasonable") There
are times when I'd find that useful for simple programs to just
compute a numerical result or set of results, or iteratively search
for a solution that meets a set of constraints. MathCAD can do it but
iterative programs with conditional branching are cumbersome to
write and the programs execute rather slowly. Any interpretive
program or "script" --BASIC, VB, MathCAD, etc -- is considerably
slower than a program that can be compiled and executed.
Speed is less of a problem as 'puters get faster, but "programs" in
MathCAD are still a pain to write.

Karl sez:
" To me, this is like saying I'd rather drive my car in reverse on the
freeway. Does HP still use that RPN logic? What on earth is the reason
for it and WHY would anyone like it? ( I know - I'm just troolling)"

My guess is that in the early design days it was not economically feasible
to produce chips to support direct algebraic entry. Thus, RPN was developed
as a crutch, more or less, to facilitate HP's entry into the calculator
market. We were taught by HP (General Bullmoose ? ) to manipulate a "stack"
in order to accommodate their klunky entry system. And so, RPN became the
de facto standard. Besides, it had great appeal for those that would have
us believe "computer math" was beyond the reach of ordinary intelligence.
Like, "Hey, if you ain't smart enough to learn to do backwards arithmetic,
you got no business with a calculator anyway."

Bob Swinney

Don Foreman wrote:
I like Hewlett Packard calculators. I have two HP32SII's and a 42S,
have worn out several others over the years since the HP-35, the
first scientific handheld calculator with trig functions and all. I
felt lucky as hell to find one of those used at $135, in the early
'70s when that was more than a house payment. That's when I retired
my trusty Post Versalog slide rule. I also have an HP48G but I've
never liked it much. Too damned complicated for everyday use.

One 32SII has been my shop/lab workhorse for over a decade. The
buttons are still legible, all but one anyway. Lately some of the
buttons got to be intermittent. Got out the "backup" 32SII I
spotted (and glommed) in a bookshop years ago after HP had quit
making them. There were none to be had here but this bookshop was
on a back street in Ghent, Belgium.

Same keyboard problem with it, though it has about no "miles" on it.
Oh, darn! Got out the 42S which I'd been hoarding because I
*really* like that calculator. Same thing. Ooooooo nooooooo!

Battery voltages all looked fine. I put new batteries in one anyway.
No help.

Then I recalled that one of my fishing sonars got wierd earlier this
year after a 1-week fishin' trip where it rained nearly every day.
One might think that a boat gadget would be weatherproof, right?
Maybe it was when new 6 years ago.

I'd bagged the sonar with a 1-oz desiccant pack for a few days. That
fixed it, as expected.

Mmmm (you can see it coming already, right?) I bagged the
calculators in a ziplock with a desiccant pack. Three days later,
they all work perfectly.

I'm gonna start using the 42S now. It's in brand-new condition but
it probably won't be for long, with everyday use in the shop/lab. What
the hell, I'm gonna enjoy it while I can still see it.

Hey, use it Don. If you don't your heirs will.....

At my age I don't even risk buying gren bananas anymore.


The 32SII's will be transferred to a screw-top jar with a coupla
desiccant paks.

My HP20 is still working OK.

But, serendipidously just last Thursday I thought I was making more
typos that usual on my computer at work, and when I went back to key in
a missed "W" I found the "W" key was almost non-functional, and would
only work if it was pressed down firmly while being pushed leftwards.

Now, I know a keyboard is only a $10 commodity, and I probably have at
least four old ones squirreled away at home (If I can remember where.)
But, there were none handy at the office. SWMBO was still writing a
report there and wasn't ready to go home yet, so I figured I'd use the
time have a go at cleaning up that keyboard.

After removing more screws than most XXX movies have I lifted the bottom
off the keyboard. I peeled the flex circuit up and used Q-Tips and
denatured alcohol to swab the little conductive rubber contact pads in
the hundred or so separate elastomeric contact cups, which looked for
all the world like AAAAAAAAA cup boobs lifted from a troop of Barbie
dolls. I wiped off the contacts on the flex circuit too.

After reassembly, like the Brits say, "Bob's your uncle!" The damn thing
worked like new. It's nice when things work out right the first time
once in a while, isn't it?

Over the years I've had many keypads where you push directly on the
rubber "keys" go flakey on me. Those keypads are usually found on things
like TV remotes and cheap calculators. When I open them up I often find
a green "slime" on the conductive rubber contacts on the underside of
the keys and on the printed circuit contacts which they close against.

When I clean that gunk off with denatured alcohol and put things back
together they always work fine again.

An Aussie phone technician told me that years ago a series of touch tone
phones down under used those "rubber keys" and that they caused the
phone company lots of problems. He said they tracked it down to "skin
oil" transfered to the tops of the keys migrating through the soft
rubber and ending up on the surface of the contacts. He said it happened
more on phones located in kitchens than elsewhere. More grease in the
air there I suppose.

Interesting....And believable to me as I've noticed when cleaning
keypads on TV remotes that the gunk seems worse on the frequently used
contacts than on the seldom used ones.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:52:37 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
I like Hewlett Packard calculators. I have two HP32SII's and a 42S,
have worn out several others over the years since the HP-35, the
first scientific handheld calculator with trig functions and all. I
felt lucky as hell to find one of those used at $135, in the early
'70s when that was more than a house payment. That's when I retired
my trusty Post Versalog slide rule. I also have an HP48G but I've
never liked it much. Too damned complicated for everyday use.

One 32SII has been my shop/lab workhorse for over a decade. The
buttons are still legible, all but one anyway. Lately some of the
buttons got to be intermittent. Got out the "backup" 32SII I
spotted (and glommed) in a bookshop years ago after HP had quit
making them. There were none to be had here but this bookshop was
on a back street in Ghent, Belgium.

Same keyboard problem with it, though it has about no "miles" on it.
Oh, darn! Got out the 42S which I'd been hoarding because I
*really* like that calculator. Same thing. Ooooooo nooooooo!

Battery voltages all looked fine. I put new batteries in one anyway.
No help.

Then I recalled that one of my fishing sonars got wierd earlier this
year after a 1-week fishin' trip where it rained nearly every day.
One might think that a boat gadget would be weatherproof, right?
Maybe it was when new 6 years ago.

I'd bagged the sonar with a 1-oz desiccant pack for a few days. That
fixed it, as expected.

Mmmm (you can see it coming already, right?) I bagged the
calculators in a ziplock with a desiccant pack. Three days later,
they all work perfectly.

I'm gonna start using the 42S now. It's in brand-new condition but
it probably won't be for long, with everyday use in the shop/lab. What
the hell, I'm gonna enjoy it while I can still see it.

Hey, use it Don. If you don't your heirs will.....

At my age I don't even risk buying gren bananas anymore.


The 32SII's will be transferred to a screw-top jar with a coupla
desiccant paks.

My HP20 is still working OK.

But, serendipidously just last Thursday I thought I was making more
typos that usual on my computer at work, and when I went back to key in
a missed "W" I found the "W" key was almost non-functional, and would
only work if it was pressed down firmly while being pushed leftwards.

Now, I know a keyboard is only a $10 commodity, and I probably have at
least four old ones squirreled away at home (If I can remember where.)
But, there were none handy at the office. SWMBO was still writing a
report there and wasn't ready to go home yet, so I figured I'd use the
time have a go at cleaning up that keyboard.

After removing more screws than most XXX movies have I lifted the bottom
off the keyboard. I peeled the flex circuit up and used Q-Tips and
denatured alcohol to swab the little conductive rubber contact pads in
the hundred or so separate elastomeric contact cups, which looked for
all the world like AAAAAAAAA cup boobs lifted from a troop of Barbie
dolls. I wiped off the contacts on the flex circuit too.

After reassembly, like the Brits say, "Bob's your uncle!" The damn thing
worked like new. It's nice when things work out right the first time
once in a while, isn't it?

Over the years I've had many keypads where you push directly on the
rubber "keys" go flakey on me. Those keypads are usually found on things
like TV remotes and cheap calculators. When I open them up I often find
a green "slime" on the conductive rubber contacts on the underside of
the keys and on the printed circuit contacts which they close against.

When I clean that gunk off with denatured alcohol and put things back
together they always work fine again.

An Aussie phone technician told me that years ago a series of touch tone
phones down under used those "rubber keys" and that they caused the
phone company lots of problems. He said they tracked it down to "skin
oil" transfered to the tops of the keys migrating through the soft
rubber and ending up on the surface of the contacts. He said it happened
more on phones located in kitchens than elsewhere. More grease in the
air there I suppose.

Interesting....And believable to me as I've noticed when cleaning
keypads on TV remotes that the gunk seems worse on the frequently used
contacts than on the seldom used ones.

Jeff

G'day,
I bought a HP 32s2 after hearing Fitch (btw where is
Fitch?) praise them. I fly night freight in Metros and put a couple
of simple programs (mainly fuel calcs - haven't run out yet :-) _)Once
I got used to rpn wouldn't be without it.

Regards, Mac

Ebay has quite a few.


http://search.ebay.com/32SII_W0QQfro...Z1QQsbrbin Zt

--
Steve Walker
(remove wallet to reply)

For me, I keep a TI graphic type in the shop - because I have a big screen and computing
ability there. Something of a high or medium level language actually. Forth ?

Anyway - the HP 28C (In rich leather) with the thermo printer (IR) in the desk. I can shoot
the IR beam and print on my HP 990 color printer! wow - the late 80's calculator using a 2003 printer.

I like the 28 - did know it much more when I used it at work - had the 'strip' computer there - boxes
of mag strips - sad when that died. The 28 now lasts and lasts on batteries - finally got fresh N size.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Nick Müller wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:


I like Hewlett Packard calculators.


Me to. And I still want my HP 16C back that someone was stolen from me.

It would trade it for a HP 28


Nick

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

I think APL would have taken off a bit more, but he special keyboard...

Ok ya - just have Logitech make a special - Now I'm using a logitech wireless mouse
and wireless keyboard on the house computer and I have the (wow) MX 1000 laser in the shop.
I think now the keyboard is a mute point - easy to overcome.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:26:04 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT to reply wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
. ..

I like Hewlett Packard calculators. I have two HP32SII's and a 42S,

...


To me, this is like saying I'd rather drive my car in reverse on the
freeway. Does HP still use that RPN logic? What on earth is the reason for
it and WHY would anyone like it? ( I know - I'm just troolling)

Karl



Present offerings can run in RPN or traditional mode.

RPN is useful because it eliminates parentheses. Once learned, it is
much easier to calculate complex expressions (without error) with RPN.
You do the innermost calculations (deepest level of parentheses)
first, intermediate results go on the stack, and so on.

I've been using RPN for so long I have trouble with a regular
calculator. If I don't have an HP handy I let my wife (former
beancounter) do the calculating. I don't really "need" RPN anymore,
but it's what I'm used to and comfortable with.

The advent of the PC has changed things. I now do complex
expressions in MathCAD because I can see the whole expression (and
input errors) on the screen -- and it's easy to use repetitively just
by changing a variable. It's too bad that MathCAD has gotten so
expensive with a surfeit of features. The first versions for $49
that came on one or two floppies did nearly everything I ever want to
do with it.

I wish APL (Ted Edwards' favorite) were available for Windows at
reasonable price. (I would consider $49.95 as "reasonable") There
are times when I'd find that useful for simple programs to just
compute a numerical result or set of results, or iteratively search
for a solution that meets a set of constraints. MathCAD can do it but
iterative programs with conditional branching are cumbersome to
write and the programs execute rather slowly. Any interpretive
program or "script" --BASIC, VB, MathCAD, etc -- is considerably
slower than a program that can be compiled and executed.
Speed is less of a problem as 'puters get faster, but "programs" in
MathCAD are still a pain to write.

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Nope - 4 bangers were out all over the place doing non-RPG. Engineers used RPG,
business types used algebraic. Some were caught between because schools began
to program people. I use both myself - time and a place and keeps my mind able
in both in case I have to use one somewhere away from home...

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Robert Swinney wrote:
Karl sez:
" To me, this is like saying I'd rather drive my car in reverse on the

freeway. Does HP still use that RPN logic? What on earth is the reason
for it and WHY would anyone like it? ( I know - I'm just troolling)"


My guess is that in the early design days it was not economically feasible
to produce chips to support direct algebraic entry. Thus, RPN was developed
as a crutch, more or less, to facilitate HP's entry into the calculator
market. We were taught by HP (General Bullmoose ? ) to manipulate a "stack"
in order to accommodate their klunky entry system. And so, RPN became the
de facto standard. Besides, it had great appeal for those that would have
us believe "computer math" was beyond the reach of ordinary intelligence.
Like, "Hey, if you ain't smart enough to learn to do backwards arithmetic,
you got no business with a calculator anyway."

Bob Swinney





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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

According to Robert Swinney :
Karl sez:
" To me, this is like saying I'd rather drive my car in reverse on the
freeway. Does HP still use that RPN logic? What on earth is the reason
for it and WHY would anyone like it? ( I know - I'm just troolling)"

My guess is that in the early design days it was not economically feasible
to produce chips to support direct algebraic entry. Thus, RPN was developed
as a crutch, more or less, to facilitate HP's entry into the calculator
market.

RPN happens to be how computer languages mannipulate math
internal to the programs. It is much more compact, so it allows you to
do more with a given amount of hardware -- and if the hardware can be
increased, you can add more functions, instead of tying it up handling
parens.

I got my first HP (a 45) back when those were new. I've gone
through a few of the subsequent ones, finally stopping at the 15C (for
scientific calculations), and the 16C (for computer math manipulations).
I've got one of each in my belt pouch, and a spare 15C in a Ziploc
baggie in the shop, where it can be used without lubricants or coolant
soaking into it. (Put it in facing the back of the baggie where there
is no printing.)

We were taught by HP (General Bullmoose ? ) to manipulate a "stack"
in order to accommodate their klunky entry system. And so, RPN became the
de facto standard. Besides, it had great appeal for those that would have
us believe "computer math" was beyond the reach of ordinary intelligence.
Like, "Hey, if you ain't smart enough to learn to do backwards arithmetic,
you got no business with a calculator anyway."

Before the HP-45, I was using a Cannon printing calculator with
algebraic notation (but no trig functions or other fancy stuff).

So -- I vastly prefer the RPN to algebraic calculators.

FWIW, the unix calculator programs bc and dc both use a variant
of RPN. And the GUI interface one, "xcalc" has the option to use either
algebraic notation or RPN. Guess which I have it set to? (And the
keyboard shuffles when you change the notation system to look either
like a HP 15C or some TI calculator of the same period.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Yep, Martin remember us at Motorola? Engineering had the only computer in
the place; definitely RPN. It was HP, of course; it'd take several hours
to run a site intermodulation program. The other few calculators around
were Bomar Brain 4 bangers. In those days I bought one of the first TI
algebraic models that came out. I've owned lots of TI's since then
including one with the "gum stick wrapper" programmer. I've tried both RPN
and algebraic - I still prefer algebraic.

Bob Swinney

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
...
Nope - 4 bangers were out all over the place doing non-RPG. Engineers
used RPG,
business types used algebraic. Some were caught between because schools
began
to program people. I use both myself - time and a place and keeps my mind
able
in both in case I have to use one somewhere away from home...

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Robert Swinney wrote:
Karl sez:
" To me, this is like saying I'd rather drive my car in reverse on the

freeway. Does HP still use that RPN logic? What on earth is the reason
for it and WHY would anyone like it? ( I know - I'm just troolling)"


My guess is that in the early design days it was not economically
feasible to produce chips to support direct algebraic entry. Thus, RPN
was developed as a crutch, more or less, to facilitate HP's entry into
the calculator market. We were taught by HP (General Bullmoose ? ) to
manipulate a "stack" in order to accommodate their klunky entry system.
And so, RPN became the de facto standard. Besides, it had great appeal
for those that would have us believe "computer math" was beyond the reach
of ordinary intelligence. Like, "Hey, if you ain't smart enough to learn
to do backwards arithmetic, you got no business with a calculator
anyway."

Bob Swinney





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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 02:45:09 GMT, Steve Walker
wrote:

Ebay has quite a few.


http://search.ebay.com/32SII_W0QQfro...Z1QQsbrbin Zt


Yep. But the going rate of around $150 for a good one is a bit
steep.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

There is also a chance that the plastics used are hyposcopic (they
absorb moisture). Does this calculator use a flex cable?

The flux residue on a printed circuit board is hyposcopic...add excess
humidity and new current paths are created.

Also certain components like carbon resistors change their values as
the humidity changes.

There is a good reason why manufacturers list operational and storage
ranges for temperature and humidity.

TMT

On 19 Sep 2005 11:03:55 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

There is also a chance that the plastics used are hyposcopic (they
absorb moisture). Does this calculator use a flex cable?

I'll bet you meant to write "hygroscopic". It's clear what you mean.

Another poster says it does. I wanted to try a non-invasive fix
before I drilled out the heat-staked posts that hold the case
together.

The flux residue on a printed circuit board is hyposcopic...add excess
humidity and new current paths are created.

Also certain components like carbon resistors change their values as
the humidity changes.

There is a good reason why manufacturers list operational and storage
ranges for temperature and humidity.

TMT

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:58:11 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On 19 Sep 2005 11:03:55 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

There is also a chance that the plastics used are hyposcopic (they
absorb moisture). Does this calculator use a flex cable?

I'll bet you meant to write "hygroscopic". It's clear what you mean.

Another poster says it does. I wanted to try a non-invasive fix
before I drilled out the heat-staked posts that hold the case
together.

I forget where I'd heard about the problem before I broke into mine
but it does have a flexible connecter. The proper name escapes me but
I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Clear with traces on it.
This is held in sandwich with the display board, and the circuit board
by a piece of foam. A little corrosion on the contacts and it gets
flaky. Unfortunately a long cry from the old HP which went to great
lengths to make them reliable.

As stated before the only real problem is trying to get the keyboard
metal template off without hurting it. They glued that thing on very
well.


Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

Oops...thanks for catching that Don....of course you are right.

I suspect it does use a flex circuit.

I would put it in a container with dessicant for a few days and see if
the problem goes away.

Beats disassembling a sealed unit. I have had them apart in the past
and it is a delicate operation if you want the pieces to go back
together again without damage.

The metal faceplate can be pried off with a knife blade VERY
carefully...heating the calculator GENTLY may loosen the adhesive.

The tops of the melted plastic posts can be ground off
CAREFULLY....keep the grindings out of the calculator.

The ends of the circuit leads of the flex circuit can become corroded
and can be carefully burnished.

I don't remember what connector the flex circuit plugs into but some
calculators used a foam interface (zebra strip) that was notorious for
causing intermittents due to humidity. Manufacturers use them because
of the ease of initial assembly.

I should remind you to use static protection with these circuits. Some
of the driver chips are very sensitive to static. Nothing like fixing
one problem and introducing another to really ruin your day.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

TMT

Can't say Bob - what group ? I covered all over Austin and flew into 'AZ'
to help out there from time to time.

Must have been in the Memory division ? Product Marketing maybe.
I'd bet SRAM - mostly worked with DRAM and Design - some with EEPROM
(as long as they lasted) always with test engineering.

I have many fond memories working in the Austin facility. Lot of work
and frustration to the max some times.

Yep - had a SR-50 at the time myself an soon in 87 I switched to my HP 28C.


Bomar Brains - Long time since I heard that one.

We had a Cannon 12 digit NIXIE tube readouts 4 banger with memory.
I was doing logs on it and had methods for trig calculations when
the SR-50 came out - praise the keyboard!


Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Robert Swinney wrote:
Yep, Martin remember us at Motorola? Engineering had the only computer in
the place; definitely RPN. It was HP, of course; it'd take several hours
to run a site intermodulation program. The other few calculators around
were Bomar Brain 4 bangers. In those days I bought one of the first TI
algebraic models that came out. I've owned lots of TI's since then
including one with the "gum stick wrapper" programmer. I've tried both RPN
and algebraic - I still prefer algebraic.

Bob Swinney

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
...

Nope - 4 bangers were out all over the place doing non-RPG. Engineers
used RPG,
business types used algebraic. Some were caught between because schools
began
to program people. I use both myself - time and a place and keeps my mind
able
in both in case I have to use one somewhere away from home...

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Robert Swinney wrote:

Karl sez:
" To me, this is like saying I'd rather drive my car in reverse on the


freeway. Does HP still use that RPN logic? What on earth is the reason
for it and WHY would anyone like it? ( I know - I'm just troolling)"


My guess is that in the early design days it was not economically
feasible to produce chips to support direct algebraic entry. Thus, RPN
was developed as a crutch, more or less, to facilitate HP's entry into
the calculator market. We were taught by HP (General Bullmoose ? ) to
manipulate a "stack" in order to accommodate their klunky entry system.
And so, RPN became the de facto standard. Besides, it had great appeal
for those that would have us believe "computer math" was beyond the reach
of ordinary intelligence. Like, "Hey, if you ain't smart enough to learn
to do backwards arithmetic, you got no business with a calculator
anyway."

Bob Swinney





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Newsgroups
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According to Wayne Cook :
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:58:11 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

[ ... ]

Another poster says it does. I wanted to try a non-invasive fix
before I drilled out the heat-staked posts that hold the case
together.

I forget where I'd heard about the problem before I broke into mine
but it does have a flexible connecter. The proper name escapes me but
I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Clear with traces on it.

Flexible printed circuit board, I believe.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 19 Sep 2005 20:03:14 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

I would put it in a container with dessicant for a few days and see if
the problem goes away.
(snip)

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

TMT

I did, and it worked.