http://www.bushflash.com/y2.html

http://www.kwhitaker.com/mission_accomplished.jpg
--
Cliff

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 03:37:54 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Gunner was whining & crying his little heart out over Clinton's
attempts to intervene IIRC ..... prior to 2,000.

Btw..whatcha think about the new revelations that Clinton lied about
bin Laden and they could have stopped 9-11 a year and a half before
they flew into the WTC,

This was before the neocons decided that they did not wish to
hear any of the reports, right?

but he and his FBI appointees tried to brush
it under the rug?

We have another winner (or wiener).

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't
care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush,
3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him." - G.W. Bush 4/8/02

""So I don't know where he is," said Bush of bin Laden at the time.
"Nor -you know, I just don't spend that much time on him really, to be
honest with you. I... I truly am not that concerned about him." " -
G.W. Bush March 2002



"Could it be that perhaps bin Ladin is maggot food in Tora Bora,
that
Bush is not terribly concerned?" - Gunner 2004-10-05

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-09-09

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave." - Gunner 2004-05-30

"See above about blind stupidity. bin Ladin is dead. He is worm
food
in Tora Bora ." Gunner 2004-08-17

"He is maggot food somewhere in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-05-08

"If they dig Tora Bora completely up, they might find the smear of
DNA that was bin Ladin." Gunner 2004-08-28

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-09-09

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave. Unless you know
exactly
which collapsed cave, among thousands at Tora Bora..only God could lay
hands on him." - Gunner 2004-05-30

"bin Ladin is maggot food in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-05-25

"See above about blind stupidity. bin Ladin is dead. He is worm
food
in Tora Bora" - Gunner 2004-08-17

"Keep in mind, Osammayamamma was on dialysis and needed a working
dialysis machine. These require power, fluids, filters etc. His last
known address was in the cave complex in Tora Bora, and that which was
not raided was collapsed with those big bunker busters that the Buffs
dropped. The 20,000lb ones that can penetrate 90' of concrete before
going Kabloooie!" - Gunner 2004-08-20

"He is maggot food somewhere in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-05-08

"If they dig Tora Bora completely up, they might find the smear of
DNA
that was bin Ladin. And about DB Cooper?" - Gunner 2004-08-28

"The bets at the moment are that he is maggot food in a
collapsed cave in Tora Bora and it will take a mining company a couple
years to dig out his DNA." - Gunner 2004-07-18

"Osama is maggot food." - Gunner 2004-09-14

"Osama....is long since become maggot food." Gunner 2003-12-14

"Osama is maggot food." - Gunner 2003-12-14

"Could it be that perhaps bin Ladin is maggot food in Tora Bora,
that
Bush is not terribly concerned?" - Gunner 2004-10-05

"Please provide cites to the last video, cell phone conversation
over
heard, or public appearence made by Maggot Food bin Ladin since the
MOBs were dropped on Tora Bora." - Gunner 2004-10-04

[
christ, bush can't even find
osama bin laden or saddam hussein.

"Gosh, neither can the much acclaimed British. Cause both men are
maggot food."] - Gunner 2003-06-16

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 04:52:15 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:56:50 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:53:51 -0400, wrote:


the new Democracy Corps study concludes that cultural issues trump
economic issues by a wide margin for many of these voters -- giving
the GOP a significant electoral advantage.


For the president, 38 flavors of bad
George W. Bush is a very popular president -- in Idaho.


So do you think he will run again?

You mean still and not "again". This guy runs from anything if there is the
slightest chance it will be in his face.
Right now it's a girl parked on his lawn that he won't face.

Face? He commented on it. Looked like he'd been eating
something very sour & wanted someone to kill someone.
Ugly, ugly, ugly .....

Nice to see her Free Speech Zone moved out of that ditch
though.
Will she still be surrounded by lots of goons with weapons?

Btw..whatcha think about the new revelations that Clinton lied about
bin Laden and they could have stopped 9-11 a year and a half before
they flew into the WTC, but he and his FBI appointees tried to brush
it under the rug?

Clinton, or most any politician for that matter, lying is not much of a
revelation but I have seen published reports of three attempts to grab Bin
Laden that went south.
The Clinton administration was much more on the ball in this area than you
are willing to admit and terrorism was considered at a much higher level
than the first year of the Bush administration. Bush and Co. were going to
ride into town and act responsibly BY GOD and look at what has been
accomplished. There is also the small but important intelligence summary
that W blew off pre- 911. He could have shut UBL down right then had he been
so inclined. Probably not enough warning though. Who do you think Bush will
blame the next time, Ted Kennedy or Hillary Clinton?

Reports are that the CIA had information.
The neocons said not to tell the FBI as I understand it.

Then, on 9-11, Cheney took personal command of the US air defenses
(which usually would have had a 5 minute response time to a missing
or off flight plan plane) and had them all off ot Greenland or Iceland
or somesuch. PLUS all the confusion he caused, I expect.

Since when does the VP personally control specific secret military
exercises? It ended up being the one day in probably a decade that
those planes would NOT have been intercepted rapidly.

I will want to read what is coming out to learn more but it would appear
that Gorelick, and not Clinton, was less than forthcoming at best.
Able Archer is described in Richard Clarke's book, read it sometime.
The barriers between agencies were largely a response to Nixon and then
Reagan if you care to think about it.

Yeah. Look at Ashcroft "investigating" his old buddy Rove.
--
Cliff

"Cliff" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 03:37:54 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Gunner was whining & crying his little heart out over Clinton's
attempts to intervene IIRC ..... prior to 2,000.

Btw..whatcha think about the new revelations that Clinton lied about
bin Laden and they could have stopped 9-11 a year and a half before
they flew into the WTC,

This was before the neocons decided that they did not wish to
hear any of the reports, right?

but he and his FBI appointees tried to brush
it under the rug?

We have another winner (or wiener).

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't
care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush,
3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him." - G.W. Bush 4/8/02

""So I don't know where he is," said Bush of bin Laden at the time.
"Nor -you know, I just don't spend that much time on him really, to be
honest with you. I... I truly am not that concerned about him." " -
G.W. Bush March 2002



"Could it be that perhaps bin Ladin is maggot food in Tora Bora,
that
Bush is not terribly concerned?" - Gunner 2004-10-05

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-09-09

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave." - Gunner 2004-05-30

"See above about blind stupidity. bin Ladin is dead. He is worm
food
in Tora Bora ." Gunner 2004-08-17

"He is maggot food somewhere in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-05-08

"If they dig Tora Bora completely up, they might find the smear of
DNA that was bin Ladin." Gunner 2004-08-28

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-09-09

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave. Unless you know
exactly
which collapsed cave, among thousands at Tora Bora..only God could lay
hands on him." - Gunner 2004-05-30

"bin Ladin is maggot food in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-05-25

"See above about blind stupidity. bin Ladin is dead. He is worm
food
in Tora Bora" - Gunner 2004-08-17

"Keep in mind, Osammayamamma was on dialysis and needed a working
dialysis machine. These require power, fluids, filters etc. His last
known address was in the cave complex in Tora Bora, and that which was
not raided was collapsed with those big bunker busters that the Buffs
dropped. The 20,000lb ones that can penetrate 90' of concrete before
going Kabloooie!" - Gunner 2004-08-20

"He is maggot food somewhere in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-05-08

"If they dig Tora Bora completely up, they might find the smear of
DNA
that was bin Ladin. And about DB Cooper?" - Gunner 2004-08-28

"The bets at the moment are that he is maggot food in a
collapsed cave in Tora Bora and it will take a mining company a couple
years to dig out his DNA." - Gunner 2004-07-18

"Osama is maggot food." - Gunner 2004-09-14

"Osama....is long since become maggot food." Gunner 2003-12-14

"Osama is maggot food." - Gunner 2003-12-14

"Could it be that perhaps bin Ladin is maggot food in Tora Bora,
that
Bush is not terribly concerned?" - Gunner 2004-10-05

"Please provide cites to the last video, cell phone conversation
over
heard, or public appearence made by Maggot Food bin Ladin since the
MOBs were dropped on Tora Bora." - Gunner 2004-10-04

[
christ, bush can't even find
osama bin laden or saddam hussein.

"Gosh, neither can the much acclaimed British. Cause both men are
maggot food."] - Gunner 2003-06-16


Who in the hell has such a miserable, poor, wretched life that they have
nothing else to do but sit around and follow this crap and Google it up and
cut and paste?

Cliff does.

Get a ****ing life, Cliff. Get a job. Get laid. Go fishing. Go bowling.
Take a nap. Play with your kids/grandkids. Make some kids. Help a
charity. Go to church. Clean your garage. Mow the yard. Paint the house.
Get some psychiatric counseling. Do something! Anything! Just get over
this obsession with the inane.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:Jm0Ne.59521$DW1.26339@fed1read06...

"Cliff" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 03:37:54 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Gunner was whining & crying his little heart out over Clinton's
attempts to intervene IIRC ..... prior to 2,000.

Btw..whatcha think about the new revelations that Clinton lied about
bin Laden and they could have stopped 9-11 a year and a half before
they flew into the WTC,

This was before the neocons decided that they did not wish to
hear any of the reports, right?

but he and his FBI appointees tried to brush
it under the rug?

We have another winner (or wiener).

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't
care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush,
3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him." - G.W. Bush 4/8/02

""So I don't know where he is," said Bush of bin Laden at the time.
"Nor -you know, I just don't spend that much time on him really, to be
honest with you. I... I truly am not that concerned about him." " -
G.W. Bush March 2002



"Could it be that perhaps bin Ladin is maggot food in Tora Bora,
that
Bush is not terribly concerned?" - Gunner 2004-10-05

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-09-09

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave." - Gunner 2004-05-30

"See above about blind stupidity. bin Ladin is dead. He is worm
food
in Tora Bora ." Gunner 2004-08-17

"He is maggot food somewhere in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-05-08

"If they dig Tora Bora completely up, they might find the smear of
DNA that was bin Ladin." Gunner 2004-08-28

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-09-09

"bin Laden is maggot food in a collapsed cave. Unless you know
exactly
which collapsed cave, among thousands at Tora Bora..only God could lay
hands on him." - Gunner 2004-05-30

"bin Ladin is maggot food in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-05-25

"See above about blind stupidity. bin Ladin is dead. He is worm
food
in Tora Bora" - Gunner 2004-08-17

"Keep in mind, Osammayamamma was on dialysis and needed a working
dialysis machine. These require power, fluids, filters etc. His last
known address was in the cave complex in Tora Bora, and that which was
not raided was collapsed with those big bunker busters that the Buffs
dropped. The 20,000lb ones that can penetrate 90' of concrete before
going Kabloooie!" - Gunner 2004-08-20

"He is maggot food somewhere in a collapsed cave in Tora Bora." -
Gunner 2004-05-08

"If they dig Tora Bora completely up, they might find the smear of
DNA
that was bin Ladin. And about DB Cooper?" - Gunner 2004-08-28

"The bets at the moment are that he is maggot food in a
collapsed cave in Tora Bora and it will take a mining company a couple
years to dig out his DNA." - Gunner 2004-07-18

"Osama is maggot food." - Gunner 2004-09-14

"Osama....is long since become maggot food." Gunner 2003-12-14

"Osama is maggot food." - Gunner 2003-12-14

"Could it be that perhaps bin Ladin is maggot food in Tora Bora,
that
Bush is not terribly concerned?" - Gunner 2004-10-05

"Please provide cites to the last video, cell phone conversation
over
heard, or public appearence made by Maggot Food bin Ladin since the
MOBs were dropped on Tora Bora." - Gunner 2004-10-04

[
christ, bush can't even find
osama bin laden or saddam hussein.

"Gosh, neither can the much acclaimed British. Cause both men are
maggot food."] - Gunner 2003-06-16


Who in the hell has such a miserable, poor, wretched life that they have
nothing else to do but sit around and follow this crap and Google it up
and
cut and paste?

Cliff does.

Get a ****ing life, Cliff. Get a job. Get laid. Go fishing. Go
bowling.
Take a nap. Play with your kids/grandkids. Make some kids. Help a
charity. Go to church. Clean your garage. Mow the yard. Paint the
house.
Get some psychiatric counseling. Do something! Anything! Just get over
this obsession with the inane.

Steve

I think that this shows that "Gunner" apparently has a fascination with
maggots and feels the need to fold them into every single analogy that he
can think of to graphical detail the fate (in his mind) of Bin Laden. He
("Gunner") seems to have a shallow imagination and he and his supporters
bristle whenever their explanations of complex events are challenged.

Good job Cliff, keep up the good work!!

Oh yeah, just for that dumbass "North", "Viva
Mexico!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!"

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 06:50:35 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

Who in the hell has such a miserable, poor, wretched life that they have
nothing else to do but sit around and follow this crap and Google it up and
cut and paste?

Cliff does.

Gunner's good for something.
Recycling.

G
--
Cliff

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:15:32 -0500, "PabloRena --- AnalProbe"
wrote:


I think that this shows that "Gunner" apparently has a fascination with
maggots and feels the need to fold them into every single analogy that he
can think of to graphical detail the fate (in his mind) of Bin Laden. He
("Gunner") seems to have a shallow imagination and he and his supporters
bristle whenever their explanations of complex events are challenged.

Good job Cliff, keep up the good work!!

Oh yeah, just for that dumbass "North", "Viva
Mexico!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!"


So where is bin Laden hanging out these days?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:15:32 -0500, "PabloRena --- AnalProbe"
wrote:


Oh yeah, just for that dumbass "North", "Viva
Mexico!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!"

Chinga de la Raza

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:15:32 -0500, "PabloRena --- AnalProbe"
wrote:

I think that this shows that "Gunner" apparently has a fascination with
maggots and feels the need to fold them into every single analogy that he
can think of to graphical detail the fate (in his mind) of Bin Laden. He
("Gunner") seems to have a shallow imagination and he and his supporters
bristle whenever their explanations of complex events are challenged.

Good job Cliff, keep up the good work!!

Oh yeah, just for that dumbass "North", "Viva
Mexico!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!"




Hmmm, more food for my kill filter...

Hasta la Vista, Retard



BK

Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:15:32 -0500, "PabloRena --- AnalProbe"
wrote:


I think that this shows that "Gunner" apparently has a fascination with
maggots and feels the need to fold them into every single analogy that he
can think of to graphical detail the fate (in his mind) of Bin Laden. He
("Gunner") seems to have a shallow imagination and he and his supporters
bristle whenever their explanations of complex events are challenged.

Good job Cliff, keep up the good work!!

Oh yeah, just for that dumbass "North", "Viva
Mexico!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!"


So where is bin Laden hanging out these days?


Haliburton corporate HQ.


Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On 19 Aug 2005 06:18:27 -0700, "Kommunist"
wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:15:32 -0500, "PabloRena --- AnalProbe"
wrote:


I think that this shows that "Gunner" apparently has a fascination with
maggots and feels the need to fold them into every single analogy that he
can think of to graphical detail the fate (in his mind) of Bin Laden. He
("Gunner") seems to have a shallow imagination and he and his supporters
bristle whenever their explanations of complex events are challenged.

Good job Cliff, keep up the good work!!

Oh yeah, just for that dumbass "North", "Viva
Mexico!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!"


So where is bin Laden hanging out these days?


Haliburton corporate HQ.

You mean the company that Clinton signed those long term contracts
with? Are you claiming that bin Ladin and Clinton are asscociates?
That would actually not be surprising.

Gunner



Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:15:32 -0500, "PabloRena --- AnalProbe"
wrote:


I think that this shows that "Gunner" apparently has a fascination with
maggots and feels the need to fold them into every single analogy that he
can think of to graphical detail the fate (in his mind) of Bin Laden.


Or it could be that Ive seen my fair share of very dead people who
have been left laying around for the flys to gather on. You do know
that maggots are fly larve, are you not?

Ever seen a deader outside of a nice sanitary coffin? One thats got a
good bloat and a mouth full of "fly larve"?

Shrug...nature at work cleaning up the environment.

Gunner

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:04:52 +0000, Gunner wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:15:32 -0500, "PabloRena --- AnalProbe"
wrote:


I think that this shows that "Gunner" apparently has a fascination with
maggots and feels the need to fold them into every single analogy that he
can think of to graphical detail the fate (in his mind) of Bin Laden.


Or it could be that Ive seen my fair share of very dead people who
have been left laying around for the flys to gather on.

Yes, not a pleasant way to begin a day. No doubt that has an everlasting
impression on one's outlook, at least it has for me. But we are men, not
slaves to our hormones. As such it is imcumbant upon us to rise above
emotional reaction and use considered action whenever possible.

Democrats did not cause ever ill to society. Clinton was not responsible
for invading Iraq. Put the blame where responsibility lies, not on a
convient villan. By constantly attacking "liberals" or "clinton" you
dilute your message and cause people to ignore your rants.

If you want your opinion to be considered then it has to be fairly applied.

-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://curlysurmudgeon.com/blog/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 11:04:30 -0700, Curly Surmudgeon
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:04:52 +0000, Gunner wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:15:32 -0500, "PabloRena --- AnalProbe"
wrote:


I think that this shows that "Gunner" apparently has a fascination with
maggots and feels the need to fold them into every single analogy that he
can think of to graphical detail the fate (in his mind) of Bin Laden.


Or it could be that Ive seen my fair share of very dead people who
have been left laying around for the flys to gather on.

Yes, not a pleasant way to begin a day. No doubt that has an everlasting
impression on one's outlook, at least it has for me. But we are men, not
slaves to our hormones. As such it is imcumbant upon us to rise above
emotional reaction and use considered action whenever possible.

Democrats did not cause ever ill to society.

By the same token, neither did George W. Bush, but you wouldn't know that from
listening to the current crop of Blind Bush Bashers. They seem to have this idea
that every little thing that they consider bad should be laid at the feet of
George W. Bush, even if it happened in the year 1000 B.C. :/

Clinton was not responsible
for invading Iraq. Put the blame where responsibility lies, not on a
convient villan.

Sounds good. Look at the current threads on this(and many other boards).

By constantly attacking "liberals" or "clinton" you
dilute your message and cause people to ignore your rants.

Ditto.

If you want your opinion to be considered then it has to be fairly applied.

Back atcha.

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 11:04:30 -0700, Curly Surmudgeon
wrote:


Democrats did not cause ever ill to society. Clinton was not responsible
for invading Iraq. Put the blame where responsibility lies, not on a
convient villan. By constantly attacking "liberals" or "clinton" you
dilute your message and cause people to ignore your rants.

If you want your opinion to be considered then it has to be fairly applied.

-- Regards, Curly

So what about all those Dems who voted for the war?

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with
the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including,
if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to
respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its
weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe
Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John
Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors
last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam
Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that
biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be
back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine
delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile
program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the
United States and our allies." -- From a December 6, 2001 letter
signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among
others

"Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement
between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by
failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and
refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations
inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction,
including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive
progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities" -- From a
joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18,
2002

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while
retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.
We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline
Albright, 1998

"(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and
some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he
has 10 times since 1983" -- National Security Adviser Sandy Berger,
Feb 18, 1998

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all
weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up
to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course
to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability.
Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons,
but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October
2002

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has
chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But
the United States right now is on a very much different defensive
posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as
we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't
have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I
think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as
would we." -- Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq
represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did
use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to
think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international
inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques
Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of
threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction,
ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond
today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be
emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and
biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his
nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to
terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no
evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11,
2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein
will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical
warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he
succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security
landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects
American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence
back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from
gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up
and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense
William Cohen in April of 2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass
destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them
against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our
allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades,
Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every
available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons.
He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and
is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to
build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to
achieving that goal." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national
security. It should be clear that our national security requires
Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is
united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq's
weapons of mass destruction." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its
weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf
and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his
access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of
mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we
should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in
power." -- Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing
capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass
destruction." -- Bob Graham, December 2002

"Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to
deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction."
-- Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27,
2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger,
that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass
destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy,
Sept 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the
authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein
because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction
in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F.
Kerry, Oct 2002

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is
real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end
of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after
Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has
continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years
to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the
interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and
the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

"(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous
dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his
offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so
consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating
America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp
for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the
United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding
that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of
Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not
new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War." --
John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
destruction and the means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, Sept 19,
2002

"Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological
weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for
the United States." -- Joe Lieberman, August, 2002

"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and
biological weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N.
inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear
facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various
reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons
capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear
weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical
weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims about biological
weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used
chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish
population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the
past, there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can
be no doubt that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining
weapons of mass destruction." -- Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware
that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue
of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in
the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a
threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the
weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible
intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq
still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and
clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen
bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue
manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons
of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and
mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and
ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use
industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute
large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector
Scott Ritter in 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear
weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he
can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources --
something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also
should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has
made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- John
Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a
very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons
before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is
working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial
vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and
U.S. facilities in the Middle East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration’s policy
towards Iraq, I don’t think there can be any question about Saddam’s
conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past
11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he
disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any
nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he
snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors;
and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the
just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security
Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the
facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002

Off group email discussion has resulted in the following points
about several of my earlier statements/observations. the
following may prove helpful in this discussion/context.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state

As stated in paragraph 5
"The term is also used in the sense of a state that has been
rendered ineffective (i.e., has nominal military/police control
over its territory only in the sense of having no armed
opposition groups directly challenging state authority; in short,
the "no news is good news" approach) and is not able to enforce
its laws uniformly because of high crime rates, extreme
high-level corruption, an extensive informal market, impenetrable
bureaucracy, judicial ineffectiveness, military interference in
politics, cultural situations in which traditional leaders wield
more power than the state over a certain area but do not compete
with the state, or a number of other factors. Cameroon, Liberia,
Nigeria and Papua New Guinea are often mentioned in this
category."

Unfortunately, as indicated by other newsgroup postings about the
inability of the police to prevent repeated burglaries (and
general news items), this description can be applied to
increasingly large, generally metro areas of the United States.
I note in passing that the inability to control a countries
borders as indicated by uncontrolled immigration and/or
importation of goods, either because of a lack of resources, or
more importantly because of a lack of will (caused either by
bribery or political correctness), is also another critical
indicator. Thus the United States meets the objective criteria
of at least a "failing state," as distasteful as this conclusion
is to me and many other people.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy

From a longer explication of this term:

"The economies of kleptocracies tend to perform badly, as the
systematic corruption engendered by kleptocratic governance means
that the economy is subordinated to the interests of the
kleptocrats. Kleptocrats realize that they have more to gain from
taking a large share of a stable or shrinking pie than from a
shrinking share of an increasing pie. Economies based on the
extraction of natural resources (eg. diamonds and oil in a few
prominent cases) can be particularly prone to kleptocracy, as the
kleptocrats simply tax the Ricardian rent. Historically, the
socio-political environment associated with colonial rule - in
particular the dominance of colonial economies by a small number
of commodities - has been particularly conducive to the later
creation of kleptocracies, especially in Africa and South
America.
The creation of a kleptocracy typically results in many years of
general hardship and suffering for the vast majority of citizens
as civil society and the rule of law distintegrates. In addition,
kleptocrats routinely ignore economic and social problems in
their quest to amass ever more wealth. As kleptocrats do not
attempt to build or maintain functioning states, or even maintain
large security forces for fear of coups d'état, kleptocracies are
generally incompetent in the face of social crises, and often
collapse into prolonged civil war and anarchy."

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy

"The term plutocracy indicates a form of government where all the
state's decisions are centralized in an affluent wealthy class of
citizenry, and the degree of economic inequality is high while
the level of social mobility is low. This can apply to a
multitude of government systems, as the key elements of
plutocracy transcend and often occur concomitantly with the
features of those systems. The word "plutocracy" itself is
derived from the ancient Greek root ploutos, meaning wealth."