I was looking through Moltrecht's "Machine Shop Practice" Vol 2 and saw
some interesting tools I'd like to purchase somewhere.

First, on pp.116 there is an indexable end mill which holds one square
insert and that can do plunge cuts.

Second, there is a fly cutter on pp.131 that holds the single point
cutter exactly perpendicular to the spindle.

I haven't seen anything like these two tools for sale in Enco, do any
of the other suppliers have them?

himog wrote:

I was looking through Moltrecht's "Machine Shop Practice" Vol 2 and saw
some interesting tools I'd like to purchase somewhere.

First, on pp.116 there is an indexable end mill which holds one square
insert and that can do plunge cuts.

That looks like a Valenite Center-Dex end mill to me. See:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...&PMT4NO=657790

I have one.

Second, there is a fly cutter on pp.131 that holds the single point
cutter exactly perpendicular to the spindle.

Don't think of it as a fly cutter. Think of it as a short boring bar. Many many
boring bars have square holes, one at 90° and one at 45°.

Don't have one of these but I did get a set of import boring bars from Enco.
They are made in India and were real cheap and work just dandy. One of my
favorite lathe tools to use.

GWE

ENCO is basically a supplier of DIY tools for people not asking much
from their tooling. Try a real tool and cutter supplier like their
parent MSC. In reality MSC doesn't neccessarily have the good stuff but
they have a lot of the stuff. Leigh at MarMachine

Snip
Second, there is a fly cutter on pp.131 that holds the single point
cutter exactly perpendicular to the spindle.
snip
These are used to fly cut gear teeth among other things. You
grind the involute tooth form on a piece of high speed steel and
cut the teeth one at a time. see:
http://www.transatlanticpub.com/cat/workshop/gears.html

Grant Erwin:
Many many boring bars have square holes, one at 90=B0 and one at 45=B0.-


None of the boring bars I have seen have holes in them for holding
cutters.

Many of the boring heads I have seen have holes in them for holding
cutters.

I have no need for a tool holder with the adjustment capability of a
boring head for holding single point cutters at right angles to a
spindle. I have need of a holder which can simply hold the cutter at a
right angle to the spindle for simple one-off form cutting.

Boring heads cost five to ten times what fly cutters cost, and I have
no need for the extra features paid for by that difference.

Apparently gear cutter holders [right angle] were about as common
as fly cutter holders at one time. this is no longer the case.
As a project in our machining class we cut some change gears and
had to make our own tool holder. You can use a boring bar but
the tool is held above center so you will need to grind 1/2 of it
away to get the tool on center to generate the correct profile.
If you want positive rake or hook the remaining material gets
very thin. Law's book has detailed plans for a holder. One tip
is to use a shoulder bolt for the shank by turning the head down.
You can drill, tap and counter bore for the shoulder bolt and
then loctite it in place. Then locate the tool slot etc. from
the shank. We also had good luck using a #2MT drill chuck shank
with a 1/2 fine thread as a shank. Only the tang was hard and we
were able to cut the shank to the correct length for use with a
drawbar. Modified shank was then drilled and tapped to fit our
drawbar. This gained us about 1 inch of headroom.

GmcD



On 10 Aug 2005 23:48:00 -0700, "himog" wrote:

Grant Erwin:
Many many boring bars have square holes, one at 90° and one at 45°.-


None of the boring bars I have seen have holes in them for holding
cutters.

Many of the boring heads I have seen have holes in them for holding
cutters.

I have no need for a tool holder with the adjustment capability of a
boring head for holding single point cutters at right angles to a
spindle. I have need of a holder which can simply hold the cutter at a
right angle to the spindle for simple one-off form cutting.

Boring heads cost five to ten times what fly cutters cost, and I have
no need for the extra features paid for by that difference.

himog wrote:

Grant Erwin:

Many many boring bars have square holes, one at 90° and one at 45°.-



None of the boring bars I have seen have holes in them for holding
cutters.

Bottom of page 75, Enco: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=75

GWE

Many of the boring heads I have seen have holes in them for holding
cutters.

I have no need for a tool holder with the adjustment capability of a
boring head for holding single point cutters at right angles to a
spindle. I have need of a holder which can simply hold the cutter at a
right angle to the spindle for simple one-off form cutting.

Boring heads cost five to ten times what fly cutters cost, and I have
no need for the extra features paid for by that difference.

On 9 Aug 2005 16:27:47 -0700, "himog" wrote:

I was looking through Moltrecht's "Machine Shop Practice" Vol 2 and saw
some interesting tools I'd like to purchase somewhere.
snip
Second, there is a fly cutter on pp.131 that holds the single point
cutter exactly perpendicular to the spindle.
snip
see: http://www.sherline.com/3217pg.htm
for a store bought one-- has a #1 MT shank

Hmm. I never noticed those before.

It looks like it would be easy to cut off one end and turn a smaller
shank on one of those to get exactly what I've been after.

Pretty cheaply, too..

Thank you.

himog wrote:
I was looking through Moltrecht's "Machine Shop Practice" Vol 2 and saw
some interesting tools I'd like to purchase somewhere.

Second, there is a fly cutter on pp.131 that holds the single point
cutter exactly perpendicular to the spindle.

I haven't seen anything like these two tools for sale in Enco, do any
of the other suppliers have them?


Depends somewhat on what you want to run it in. On how you want to
hold it.

I've got a fly cutter just like that. 40 taper, think it takes a 5/8"
or 3/4" square bit. Made by Brown & Sharpe, if I recall correctly, so
it's not new by any means.

Pretty easy to make one. Or, if you want a straight shank, a 90 degree
boring bar should be fine.

John Martin

In article .com,
himog wrote:
Grant Erwin:
Many many boring bars have square holes, one at 90° and one at 45°.-


None of the boring bars I have seen have holes in them for holding
cutters.

I think that you are confusing two things with the same name.

There are boring bars made to mount in boring/facing heads, and
I have never seen one of those with sockets for HSS tool bit. (Square
holes.)

However, boring bars made for *lathes* often are made of plain
steel, with square holes and setscrews as described for holding HSS
lathe bits to do the actual work. Sometimes, the bore is hollow and
filled with lead shot to reduce chatter.

These lathe boring bars typically have different angles at the
two ends. The end with the bit held at 90 degrees is for plain through
boring. The end with the bit held at 45 degrees is intended to be used
for boring to the bottom of a blind hole and then to face off the bottom
of the bore. Those cannot be used in a boring head, and are not
intended for such usage.

Granted, these days, there are nice carbide insert boring bars,
sometimes made with solid carbide shanks, and these don't use HSS lathe
toolbits.

My most recent use of such a boring bar was for some inside Acme
threading in a size a bit too large for my insert tooling. Even with
nice insert tooling, the old tools are quite useful at times.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:

I think that you are confusing two things with the same name.

There are boring bars made to mount in boring/facing heads, and
I have never seen one of those with sockets for HSS tool bit. (Square
holes.)

However, boring bars made for *lathes* often are made of plain
steel, with square holes and setscrews as described for holding HSS
lathe bits to do the actual work. Sometimes, the bore is hollow and
filled with lead shot to reduce chatter.

These lathe boring bars typically have different angles at the
two ends. The end with the bit held at 90 degrees is for plain through
boring. The end with the bit held at 45 degrees is intended to be used
for boring to the bottom of a blind hole and then to face off the bottom
of the bore. Those cannot be used in a boring head, and are not
intended for such usage.

Granted, these days, there are nice carbide insert boring bars,
sometimes made with solid carbide shanks, and these don't use HSS lathe
toolbits.

My most recent use of such a boring bar was for some inside Acme
threading in a size a bit too large for my insert tooling. Even with
nice insert tooling, the old tools are quite useful at times.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--

You're somewhat right, Don, but "boring bars is boring bars".

I've got two boring heads for my mill, and both take 1" shank tooling.
That's a bit larger than most of the brazed tip carbide or HSS solid
boring bars you see. So I use the types of boring bars normally used
in lathes - both indexable carbide and HSS insert. And there's no
reason you can't use the 30 or 45 degree bars. I have cut some of them
off so I don't have a full foot of boring bar hanging out of the boring
head when I don't need that much, but that's about the only
modification.

OK, I do have some of those solid brazed carbide and HSS bars intended
for boring heads. Most of them are 3/8" shank. I can use them in the
boring heads, with a reducing bushing. But I tend to use them more
often in the lathe for short, small diameter boring jobs.

Backwards? Maybe, but it works. So does using an endmill as a
single-point boring tool, although that's not what it was made for.

John Martin

In article , dnichols@d-
and-d.com says...
In article .com,
himog wrote:
Grant Erwin:
Many many boring bars have square holes, one at 90° and one at 45°.-


None of the boring bars I have seen have holes in them for holding
cutters.

I think that you are confusing two things with the same name.

There are boring bars made to mount in boring/facing heads, and
I have never seen one of those with sockets for HSS tool bit. (Square
holes.)


Bridgeport boring heads came with this sort of bar, for
example...

http://www.hilcoind.com/flyers/Burnes/Catalog/21.JPG

Ned Simmons

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:
In article , dnichols@d-
and-d.com says...
In article .com,
himog wrote:
Grant Erwin:
Many many boring bars have square holes, one at 90° and one at 45°.-


None of the boring bars I have seen have holes in them for holding
cutters.

I think that you are confusing two things with the same name.

There are boring bars made to mount in boring/facing heads, and
I have never seen one of those with sockets for HSS tool bit. (Square
holes.)


Bridgeport boring heads came with this sort of bar, for
example...

http://www.hilcoind.com/flyers/Burnes/Catalog/21.JPG

O.K. Nicely offset so the cutting edge is on the centerline.

But still -- a square *slot*, not a square *hole* in this case.


Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article , dnichols@d-
and-d.com says...
In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:
In article , dnichols@d-
and-d.com says...
In article .com,
himog wrote:
Grant Erwin:
Many many boring bars have square holes, one at 90° and one at 45°.-


None of the boring bars I have seen have holes in them for holding
cutters.

I think that you are confusing two things with the same name.

There are boring bars made to mount in boring/facing heads, and
I have never seen one of those with sockets for HSS tool bit. (Square
holes.)


Bridgeport boring heads came with this sort of bar, for
example...

http://www.hilcoind.com/flyers/Burnes/Catalog/21.JPG

O.K. Nicely offset so the cutting edge is on the centerline.

But still -- a square *slot*, not a square *hole* in this case.



Not the one that looks like a fly cutter, the one closest
to the boring head in the lower row, and at least one of
the two in the upper row have square broached thru holes.
Here's slightly better photo.

http://i24.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/a7/57/16_1_b.JPG

Ned Simmons

In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:
In article , dnichols@d-
and-d.com says...
In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote:

[ ... ]

Bridgeport boring heads came with this sort of bar, for
example...

http://www.hilcoind.com/flyers/Burnes/Catalog/21.JPG

O.K. Nicely offset so the cutting edge is on the centerline.

But still -- a square *slot*, not a square *hole* in this case.



Not the one that looks like a fly cutter, the one closest
to the boring head in the lower row, and at least one of
the two in the upper row have square broached thru holes.
Here's slightly better photo.

http://i24.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/a7/57/16_1_b.JPG

O.K. I see it now.

Thanks,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---