"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:16:11 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

I honestly think the guy was fooled like I was...so I cant stomp his
ass. I think..I hope he was....

It's easy to fool someone who chooses to remain a fool - some people
actually think you can buy a real Rolex on the street for $25, they
just choose to not look closely to see it's a Bolex or Rolox...

From the start, I only knew it was supposed to be a Honda. I had no
idea what a EX4500 was, so I wasnt expecting the Super Quiet yada yada
fully enclosed genset. Just a generic Honda genset. HomeDespot sort of
thing.

Is that really a Honda 5.5 engine in there, or a counterfit chinese
clone? Its VERY plainly marked on the metal recoil starter cover as a
Honda 5.5 hp engine

Well, considering as it's supposed to be a totally enclosed genset
with an 11 HP motor, I would treat EVERYTHING the labels say as
suspect from here on out.


Indeed. I showed it around to a few people today..they all said Nice
Honda, until I pointed out things...and even the informed had to
scratch their heads.

Gunner

Schucks auto supply is selling a clone of the Honda for $299.99 and have
been running the add for months in the paper.

Richard W.

I gave some machines to an aquaintence some time ago, so he could sell
them and we would split the money. He waffled around for a few
months..then told me he had sold them, but at a loss, but we would
work out how much he owed me later...chuckle..... About $600
actually....

So yesterday evening, he called me and told me he had a brand new
honda generator he would give me as partial boot, as he had no cash.
So I go over to his place and there is a red generator...looks like a
honda..with a data plate on t he end of the motor, Honda 5.5 hp, OHV
with a sticker on the gas tank that said Honda EX4500. Had a volt
meter, a single 120 standard recepticle, and a twistlock recepticle,
unlabled.

Thing looked brand new, never fired up, so figuring it was either
this..or whistle for my money. so .I stuffed it in the back of the
pickup and left for my next service call. Today, I put a half gallon
of gas in it, and fired it up. Actually runs pretty nice, quiet. Has a
big muffler, a tube frame, big top mounted gas tank.

I had a bad feeling though, when I read the a paper tag on the pull
starter..and it said Jiangdong .....which isnt Japanese..and noticed
that the power rating said 2.8kva....110vt single
phrase...yes..."phrase"

In the light of day..switches etc are not as well executed as I would
expect Honda to put out.

Popping into hondas website..this gennny was not to be found..and the
EX4500 is a far different genset....****.....

Going to Ebay..turned up its younger brother...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=10 6437&rd=1


The one on ebay has both 220, and 110, and mine has only 110 on both
outlets....damnit.

I honestly think the guy was fooled like I was...so I cant stomp his
ass. I think..I hope he was....

Is that really a Honda 5.5 engine in there, or a counterfit chinese
clone? Its VERY plainly marked on the metal recoil starter cover as a
Honda 5.5 hp engine

I suspect its a fake as the serial number has no model designation,
with it:

04Q100398,

which the various honda sites say should be there

Any body have any experience with these clone gensets?

Should I take this back and stuff it up his nose, or hang on to it? I
just wanted something to run a small 110 Lincoln Weldpak 100 Mig
welder, the odd power tool and have something on hand for a power
failure to run the swamp cooler (3/4hp motor) for the wife, because of
her heart issues, and 18mth old granddaughter, while Im on the road..

It runs well, seems to put out consistant power, havent put a freq
counter on it yet, but if it has aluminum cylinders with no liners etc
etc....sigh

Damit I hate it when this happens and its done by a friend.

Gunner


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

Regarding the subject line:
:-) I'd think you would be getting used to it by now... ;-P

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:38:27 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

I gave some machines to an aquaintence some time ago, so he could sell
them and we would split the money. He waffled around for a few
months..then told me he had sold them, but at a loss, but we would
work out how much he owed me later...chuckle..... About $600
actually....

So yesterday evening, he called me and told me he had a brand new
honda generator he would give me as partial boot, as he had no cash.
So I go over to his place and there is a red generator...looks like a
honda..with a data plate on t he end of the motor, Honda 5.5 hp, OHV
with a sticker on the gas tank that said Honda EX4500. Had a volt
meter, a single 120 standard recepticle, and a twistlock recepticle,
unlabled.

Thing looked brand new, never fired up, so figuring it was either
this..or whistle for my money. so .I stuffed it in the back of the
pickup and left for my next service call. Today, I put a half gallon
of gas in it, and fired it up. Actually runs pretty nice, quiet. Has a
big muffler, a tube frame, big top mounted gas tank.

I had a bad feeling though, when I read the a paper tag on the pull
starter..and it said Jiangdong .....which isnt Japanese..and noticed
that the power rating said 2.8kva....110vt single
phrase...yes..."phrase"

In the light of day..switches etc are not as well executed as I would
expect Honda to put out.

Popping into hondas website..this gennny was not to be found..and the
EX4500 is a far different genset....****.....

Going to Ebay..turned up its younger brother...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=10 6437&rd=1


The one on ebay has both 220, and 110, and mine has only 110 on both
outlets....damnit.

I honestly think the guy was fooled like I was...so I cant stomp his
ass. I think..I hope he was....

It's easy to fool someone who chooses to remain a fool - some people
actually think you can buy a real Rolex on the street for $25, they
just choose to not look closely to see it's a Bolex or Rolox...

Is that really a Honda 5.5 engine in there, or a counterfit chinese
clone? Its VERY plainly marked on the metal recoil starter cover as a
Honda 5.5 hp engine

Well, considering as it's supposed to be a totally enclosed genset
with an 11 HP motor, I would treat EVERYTHING the labels say as
suspect from here on out.

I suspect its a fake as the serial number has no model designation,
with it:

04Q100398,

which the various honda sites say should be there

The first thing I would do is call American Honda and show them what
you have there. www.hondapowerequipment.com

Most reputable manufacturers are /very/ protective of their brand
names, trademarks and designs, and they will want to trace it back to
the importer or maker and direct a legal cruise missile strike on the
factory. Revenge is a dish best served cold, and all that.

Heck, they might send you a REAL EX-4500 as a reward, if you (and
your buddy) can direct them back to the source, and they stomp 'em
back to the stone age.

Any body have any experience with these clone gensets?

Should I take this back and stuff it up his nose, or hang on to it? I
just wanted something to run a small 110 Lincoln Weldpak 100 Mig
welder, the odd power tool and have something on hand for a power
failure to run the swamp cooler (3/4hp motor) for the wife, because of
her heart issues, and 18mth old granddaughter, while Im on the road..

It runs well, seems to put out consistant power, havent put a freq
counter on it yet, but if it has aluminum cylinders with no liners etc
etc....sigh

It's a judgment call - the debt certainly isn't cancelled, and it'll
be between the two of you to come up with a realistic value for this
knockoff genset.

A real EX4500 is going to go for at least $2k, ($3,500 List) so I
have a pretty strong feeling he knew it was a knockoff when he offered
it to you. Whether he received it knowing it was a knockoff is
another question - someone could have pulled the same **** on him, and
the realization (blinking "SUCKER" sign on forehead") only sunk in
later.

If you think he'll come through later, you could just unwind the
deal and give it back. If you think he's liable to waffle again, I'd
find out what the generator is really worth and revise the agreement
to where he still owes you partial repayment.

If the genset turns out to be a total POS - as you said, an unlined
aluminum motor that'll be blowing smoke inside of 50 hours, and/or
lumpy ball bearings in the generator end-bell that self-destruct and
wreck the casting - that value won't be very much.

And after the first thing breaks where you can't find or easily make
a replacement part (like that end bell casting) the value effectively
falls to zero. Sure, it would be a challenge to make a new one from
scratch, but there goes a whole weekend and a lot of materials. And
if you are using this knockoff as an emergency power source, it isn't
worth a plug nickel if it blows up.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

I think Bruce's analysis of your situation is pretty "right." Let's assume
your seller-friend was fooled by the Honda's looks. This means he believes
that he has paid off a substantial part of what he owed you. You must make
it clear to him that when he got fooled, he didn't obligate you to accept
the loss.

Since he will probably be slow to come up with any more payments, I would
offer to keep the gen-set on trial, and make performance and durability a
negotiable part of the price. And then I would use the hell out of it, so
if it is going to break, it happens soon, while he still has a feeling of
obligation.

What does it mean--he sold them at a loss? You didn't charge him for the
stuff, so what is the loss? Had you agreed on the selling prices? Did he
lower the prices without consulting you? He sounds like a Bozo to me.

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:16:11 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

I honestly think the guy was fooled like I was...so I cant stomp his
ass. I think..I hope he was....

It's easy to fool someone who chooses to remain a fool - some people
actually think you can buy a real Rolex on the street for $25, they
just choose to not look closely to see it's a Bolex or Rolox...

From the start, I only knew it was supposed to be a Honda. I had no
idea what a EX4500 was, so I wasnt expecting the Super Quiet yada yada
fully enclosed genset. Just a generic Honda genset. HomeDespot sort of
thing.

Is that really a Honda 5.5 engine in there, or a counterfit chinese
clone? Its VERY plainly marked on the metal recoil starter cover as a
Honda 5.5 hp engine

Well, considering as it's supposed to be a totally enclosed genset
with an 11 HP motor, I would treat EVERYTHING the labels say as
suspect from here on out.


Indeed. I showed it around to a few people today..they all said Nice
Honda, until I pointed out things...and even the informed had to
scratch their heads.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:29:47 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:

I think Bruce's analysis of your situation is pretty "right." Let's assume
your seller-friend was fooled by the Honda's looks. This means he believes
that he has paid off a substantial part of what he owed you. You must make
it clear to him that when he got fooled, he didn't obligate you to accept
the loss.

Already done so. Evidently he got it from a second party as payment
for a debt...chuckle. Ah what a tangled web we bottom feeder low
margin wheeler and dealers sometimes weave. 3 and 4 cornered swaps..

Since he will probably be slow to come up with any more payments, I would
offer to keep the gen-set on trial, and make performance and durability a
negotiable part of the price. And then I would use the hell out of it, so
if it is going to break, it happens soon, while he still has a feeling of
obligation.

I fully intend to do so. Im also attempting to swap for a mil-surp
genset of known vintage and capabilities from a poster here who has
acess to a number of them. So I may simply wrap this one up, and sell
it for what I can get out of it. And I would be honest about the
situation.

What does it mean--he sold them at a loss? You didn't charge him for the
stuff, so what is the loss? Had you agreed on the selling prices? Did he
lower the prices without consulting you? He sounds like a Bozo to me.

I gave them to him, told him to sell them for no less than $xxx
dollars and we would split the money. The $xxx dollars being what I
knew I could sell the items for on my own, but as he had someone
waiting in the wings wanting them, and it may take me months to find a
buyer (Thread rolling machine with bowl feeder, and small punch
press), I let him have them to sell to his people. I didnt want to
turn and burn them and take any offer no matter what. Which is pretty
much what he did as he needed the money himself then and there. So
not only did he sell for far below true market value, but he spent my
half as well. Which didnt bother me terribly as his straits are often
times as desperate as mine are..though I could damned well have used
the cash, or a piece of hardware I could convert to cash, or swap for
something of equal value that I or another needs. I understood his
situation, I figured he would rectify it when he could. He has before.
Shrug..there is a certain amount of trust and understanding necessary
when doing this sort of thing. Everything done with a verbal
handshake.

Id much rather have people owe me, than owe others. I have a debt to
a poster here on this newsgroup that Ive not been able to pay back.
And its been a number of years, though Im working on it at the moment
by trying to sell a piece of equipment that a fellow wants and the
cash will go straight to the fellow I owe. Others here owe me. A
couple guys are making time payments on stuff I paid for and then
fronted them. No set payment schedule. Pay what they can, when they
can.

Hell, I give away more Stuff than I sell, I think, as just about
anyone who has ever visited my place can attest. LOL.

It all comes out in the wash.

Gunner


Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli