[
3,000 Americans perished on 9/11 but not one journalist has the
integrity to tell the world that over 20,000 Iraqi civilians including
867 children were killed by U.S. forces even though we all now know
that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. I visited two web sites that
document it all... http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ and
http://www.veteranorgandonors.org and the pictures on this second site
(page 2)
are so disgusting that I am almost ashamed to be an American. Our tax
dollars paid for all this indiscriminate killing. There are no
weapons of mass destruction, Saddam is jailed, - so why are Iraqi
civilians still being killed, jailed, and tortured? Is our news media
being manipulated or threatened by the government to conceal these
civilian deaths from us??? Just imagine if these were YOUR kids!!!
Maybe now you can understand why so many people hate Americans. If
someone did this to your son, daughter, or grandchild, would you not
also be so enraged that you might want to strap a bmob to your body
and seek out the perpetrators? Why isn't one columnist or one TV
program addressing the root of all this hatred? Mr. Bush just wants
to kill everyone who disagrees with his administration and jail anyone
who can be contrued to be "an enemy". Scaring Americans is what he
does best - the same tactic used by Hitler to rally his people behind
him. Censorship is not part of a genuine democracy. Our government is
a fraud and Mr. Bush is a war criminal. Ask your Congressman and
Senator to hold this administration accountable for all the civilian
deaths in Iraq. "BABY KILLERS" is what America is being called around
the world. So take your head out of the sand and raise some hell with
your local talk radio DJs and newspaper editors.
If you're proud to be an American - stand up for the real America and
not Bush's Gestapo police state. Now maybe you can understand why Mr.
Bush did not want American to be part of the International Criminal
Court - he and his crew would be defendants in that court right now!
]

On Tue, 10 May 2005 23:17:13 GMT, Strabo
wrote:

In OT - From the inbox on Tue, 10 May 2005 16:09:46 -0400, by
Cliff, we read:

[
3,000 Americans perished on 9/11 but not one journalist has the
integrity to tell the world that over 20,000 Iraqi civilians including
867 children were killed by U.S. forces even though we all now know
that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. I visited two web sites that
document it all... http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ and
http://www.veteranorgandonors.org and the pictures on this second site
(page 2)
are so disgusting that I am almost ashamed to be an American.

Since 1990 there have been far more than 20 to 30 thousand
Iraqis killed and wounded.


War really sucks doesnt it?


Our tax
dollars paid for all this indiscriminate killing. There are no
weapons of mass destruction, Saddam is jailed, - so why are Iraqi
civilians still being killed, jailed, and tortured?

Indiscrimate killing? We nuked the place?

For the same reason that police "hot pursuits" continue. The
players like the game. Simple.


Is our news media
being manipulated or threatened by the government to conceal these
civilian deaths from us??? Just imagine if these were YOUR kids!!!
Maybe now you can understand why so many people hate Americans. If
someone did this to your son, daughter, or grandchild, would you not
also be so enraged that you might want to strap a bmob to your body
and seek out the perpetrators? Why isn't one columnist or one TV
program addressing the root of all this hatred?

The owners and operators of popular media don't want to.

perhaps they dont want to carry on your lies?


Mr. Bush just wants
to kill everyone who disagrees with his administration and jail anyone
who can be contrued to be "an enemy".

How come you are not dead or disappeared?

As do all players of the game.

Same question to you.

Scaring Americans is what he
does best - the same tactic used by Hitler to rally his people behind
him.

Similar though the Patriot Act goes far beyond any legalism that
Hitler could have gotten away with.

Cites? Opinions count for nothing.

Censorship is not part of a genuine democracy.

Ah, but censorship and secrecy are critical components of the
game.


I notice the big black slashes across both of your posts. The
Censorship is horrendous isnt it?

Our government is
a fraud and Mr. Bush is a war criminal. Ask your Congressman and
Senator to hold this administration accountable for all the civilian
deaths in Iraq. "BABY KILLERS" is what America is being called around
the world.

Not a chance because they are also playing the game.

Snicker...got your AFDB on?

So take your head out of the sand and raise some hell with
your local talk radio DJs and newspaper editors.
If you're proud to be an American - stand up for the real America and
not Bush's Gestapo police state. Now maybe you can understand why Mr.
Bush did not want American to be part of the International Criminal
Court - he and his crew would be defendants in that court right now!
]

I passed on your posts to the American Gestapo and they have you
scheduled for a midnight knock on the door and a unmarked grave before
the bars close. I suggest getting your affairs in order ASAP. The
clock is ticking.

None who believe in American sovereignty supports an
"International Court." In other words, no American.

The US must take care of its own. If it cannot then all
is lost anyway.


So whatcha gonna do guys? Continue to write purple prose worthy of a
1940s Commisar?

Fat lot of good that will do.

Snicker

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Cliff wrote:

snip some garbage

are so disgusting that I am almost ashamed to be an American.

We're ashamed you're an american too.

"Gunner" wrote in message
news
I notice the big black slashes across both of your posts. The
Censorship is horrendous isnt it?


On a similar note....

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...5751-9693r.htm

Homeland Security bars organizer of Minutemen


By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Newspaper publisher Chris Simcox, who helped organize last month's Minuteman
vigils and promised more in the future, was denied access to a Department of
Homeland Security press conference in Arizona last week.
Mr. Simcox, who writes for, edits and owns the Tombstone, Ariz.,
Tumbleweed, wants the American Civil Liberties Union to determine whether
his First Amendment free-press rights were violated.



{...}
-----------------------------------------------



It's hard to report when you can't get into the press conference. I find it
amusing that he has gone to the ACLU to get them to pursue his case.

"Bob Brock" wrote in message
...

"Gunner" wrote in message
news
I notice the big black slashes across both of your posts. The
Censorship is horrendous isnt it?


On a similar note....

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...5751-9693r.htm

Homeland Security bars organizer of Minutemen


By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Newspaper publisher Chris Simcox, who helped organize last month's
Minuteman
vigils and promised more in the future, was denied access to a Department
of
Homeland Security press conference in Arizona last week.
Mr. Simcox, who writes for, edits and owns the Tombstone, Ariz.,
Tumbleweed, wants the American Civil Liberties Union to determine whether
his First Amendment free-press rights were violated.

HAHAHAhahohooo...cough. Oh my God. Talk about delicious ironies.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 10 May 2005 16:09:46 -0400, Cliff wrote:

[
3,000 Americans perished on 9/11 but not one journalist has the
integrity to tell the world that over 20,000 Iraqi civilians including
867 children were killed by U.S. forces even though we all now know
that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. I visited two web sites that
document it all... http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ and
http://www.veteranorgandonors.org and the pictures on this second site
(page 2)
are so disgusting that I am almost ashamed to be an American. Our tax
dollars paid for all this indiscriminate killing. There are no
weapons of mass destruction,

There little Cliffie goes again, trying to be like his hero, Bill Clinton.

2 Weapons of Mass Destruction = No Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Keep repeating a lie and many people will believe it.

(snip)

On Wed, 11 May 2005 01:31:02 GMT, Gunner wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2005 23:17:13 GMT, Strabo
wrote:

In OT - From the inbox on Tue, 10 May 2005 16:09:46 -0400, by
Cliff, we read:

[
3,000 Americans perished on 9/11 but not one journalist has the
integrity to tell the world that over 20,000 Iraqi civilians including
867 children were killed by U.S. forces even though we all now know
that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. I visited two web sites that
document it all... http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ and
http://www.veteranorgandonors.org and the pictures on this second site
(page 2)
are so disgusting that I am almost ashamed to be an American.

Since 1990 there have been far more than 20 to 30 thousand
Iraqis killed and wounded.


War really sucks doesnt it?

Yeah, and so does Cliffie, but what else is new?
(snip)

On Wed, 11 May 2005 00:47:31 -0400, the inscrutable "Bob Brock"
spake:


"Gunner" wrote in message
news
I notice the big black slashes across both of your posts. The
Censorship is horrendous isnt it?

On a similar note....

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...5751-9693r.htm

Homeland Security bars organizer of Minutemen

--snip--

Did you see Cal Thomas' article yesterday? He's a shining example of a
super-conservative republican yet he's been placed on the No Fly list
twice now (not for terrorism, but out of inefficiencies regarding how
the list and TSA/DHS are run.) And the maroons need another $4.5B for
updated equipment just 3 years later? What will it take for the
government to push the American public into critical mass where they
say "Enough!" and really push for changes? sigh


----------------------------------------------
CAUTION: Driver Legally B l o n d (e)
http://www.diversify.com Web Database Development
================================================== =====

On Wed, 11 May 2005 01:31:02 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

How come you are not dead or disappeared?

Any mention of such violates the "Patriot" Act,
does it not?

What has happened to all of the disappeared?
In the secret courts?
--
Cliff

On Wed, 11 May 2005 00:47:31 -0400, "Bob Brock"
wrote:

It's hard to report when you can't get into the press conference. I find it
amusing that he has gone to the ACLU to get them to pursue his case.

Why?
--
Cliff

On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:41:53 -0400, Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 00:47:31 -0400, "Bob Brock"
wrote:

It's hard to report when you can't get into the press conference. I find it
amusing that he has gone to the ACLU to get them to pursue his case.

Why?

You need to be more specific. Why is it hard to report or why do I
find it amusing? It's hard to answer a question when the question is
phrased to vague to be comprehensible.

On Wed, 11 May 2005 06:48:00 GMT, (The Watcher)
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2005 16:09:46 -0400, Cliff wrote:

[
3,000 Americans perished on 9/11 but not one journalist has the
integrity to tell the world that over 20,000 Iraqi civilians including
867 children were killed by U.S. forces even though we all now know
that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. I visited two web sites that
document it all... http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ and
http://www.veteranorgandonors.org and the pictures on this second site
(page 2)
are so disgusting that I am almost ashamed to be an American. Our tax
dollars paid for all this indiscriminate killing. There are no
weapons of mass destruction,

There little Cliffie goes again, trying to be like his hero, Bill Clinton.

Give it up, the Monica envy. It was NONE of YOUR business in the
first place.
Buy a handbag.

2 Weapons of Mass Destruction = No Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Found any "WMDS"?

Keep repeating a lie and many people will believe it.

(snip)

You wingers are so gullible .....
--
Cliff

On Wed, 11 May 2005 06:19:26 -0700, "127.0.0.1"
wrote:

In article ,
Cliff wrote:

[
3,000 Amer

SNIP!!!!!!!

Why don't you take your off-topic bull**** posts to the proper group?
Have someone teach you how to use Usenet.

Are you saying that ~3,000 did not die on 9-11?
Or that the neocons have not murdered ~100,000 + since?
--
Cliff

On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:54:11 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:41:53 -0400, Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 00:47:31 -0400, "Bob Brock"
wrote:

It's hard to report when you can't get into the press conference. I find it
amusing that he has gone to the ACLU to get them to pursue his case.

Why?

You need to be more specific. Why is it hard to report or why do I
find it amusing?

Yes.

It's hard to answer a question when the question is
phrased to vague to be comprehensible.

They were your statements, right?
--
Cliff

On Wed, 11 May 2005 11:35:09 -0400, Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:54:11 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:41:53 -0400, Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 00:47:31 -0400, "Bob Brock"
wrote:

It's hard to report when you can't get into the press conference. I find it
amusing that he has gone to the ACLU to get them to pursue his case.

Why?

You need to be more specific. Why is it hard to report or why do I
find it amusing?

Yes.

It's hard to answer a question when the question is
phrased to vague to be comprehensible.

They were your statements, right?


Yes they were. I'm glad that I could help answer your question.

On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:58:36 -0400, Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 06:48:00 GMT, (The Watcher)
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2005 16:09:46 -0400, Cliff wrote:

[
3,000 Americans perished on 9/11 but not one journalist has the
integrity to tell the world that over 20,000 Iraqi civilians including
867 children were killed by U.S. forces even though we all now know
that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. I visited two web sites that
document it all... http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ and
http://www.veteranorgandonors.org and the pictures on this second site
(page 2)
are so disgusting that I am almost ashamed to be an American. Our tax
dollars paid for all this indiscriminate killing. There are no
weapons of mass destruction,

There little Cliffie goes again, trying to be like his hero, Bill Clinton.

Give it up, the Monica envy. It was NONE of YOUR business in the
first place.

Notice the tap dancing still continuing after all these years. Ignoring
Clinton's perjury in front of a Grand Jury and pretending it never happened.

Buy a handbag.

Buy a clue. Your obfuscation doesn't work.

2 Weapons of Mass Destruction = No Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Found any "WMDS"?

Yes.
Can you see the DENIAL here? Notice the snip?
2 Weapons of Mass Destruction = No Weapons of Mass Destruction?


Keep repeating a lie and many people will believe it.

(snip)

You wingers are so gullible .....

Not gullible enough for YOUR lies. :/

On Wed, 11 May 2005 06:50:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 00:47:31 -0400, the inscrutable "Bob Brock"
spake:


"Gunner" wrote in message
news
I notice the big black slashes across both of your posts. The
Censorship is horrendous isnt it?

On a similar note....

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...5751-9693r.htm

Homeland Security bars organizer of Minutemen

--snip--

Did you see Cal Thomas' article yesterday? He's a shining example of a
super-conservative republican yet he's been placed on the No Fly list
twice now (not for terrorism, but out of inefficiencies regarding how
the list and TSA/DHS are run.) And the maroons need another $4.5B for
updated equipment just 3 years later? What will it take for the
government to push the American public into critical mass where they
say "Enough!" and really push for changes? sigh

Good question. The problem would simply be solved by allowing anyone
with a CCW to fly with their personal firearm and a magzine or
cylinder full of frangible bullets.

And no Monica Missiles either.

Gunner



----------------------------------------------
CAUTION: Driver Legally B l o n d (e)
http://www.diversify.com Web Database Development
================================================= ======

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On Wed, 11 May 2005 16:09:15 GMT, (The Watcher)
wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:58:36 -0400, Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 06:48:00 GMT, (The Watcher)
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2005 16:09:46 -0400, Cliff wrote:

[
3,000 Americans perished on 9/11 but not one journalist has the
integrity to tell the world that over 20,000 Iraqi civilians including
867 children were killed by U.S. forces even though we all now know
that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. I visited two web sites that
document it all... http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ and
http://www.veteranorgandonors.org and the pictures on this second site
(page 2)
are so disgusting that I am almost ashamed to be an American. Our tax
dollars paid for all this indiscriminate killing. There are no
weapons of mass destruction,

There little Cliffie goes again, trying to be like his hero, Bill Clinton.

Give it up, the Monica envy. It was NONE of YOUR business in the
first place.

Notice the tap dancing still continuing after all these years.

You are GREEN with Monica envy.

Ignoring
Clinton's perjury in front of a Grand Jury and pretending it never happened.

Legal terms matter and legal advice was had and followed.

You seem to have been brainwashed by wingerbloggers, if
there was anything to wash in the first place.

It was none of YOUR business.

Buy a handbag.

Buy a clue. Your obfuscation doesn't work.

Already have a few? How stained?

2 Weapons of Mass Destruction = No Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Found any "WMDS"?

Yes.
Can you see the DENIAL here? Notice the snip?
2 Weapons of Mass Destruction = No Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Found those "WMDs" yet?
Still in winger denial?


Keep repeating a lie and many people will believe it.

(snip)

You wingers are so gullible .....

Not gullible enough for YOUR lies. :/

The wingerblogs told you better, eh?
--
Cliff

On Wed, 11 May 2005 16:22:45 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Good question. The problem would simply be solved by allowing anyone
with a CCW to fly with their personal firearm and a magzine or
cylinder full of frangible bullets.

Yes, but the frangible bit isn't necessary for decompression reasons, if
that's why you're saying that part. A hole in the skin of an aircraft,
at altitude, results in...a leak.

And no Monica Missiles either.

Not familiar with that term?

Another nitwit that doesn't understand the rules.
There are no military poeple fighting in Iraq against the Americans. They
are all civilians as they don't wear a uniform.
There is always collateral damage whenever armies clash. When kids and
other such non-combatants are in the area between the armies, they also
lose.
Don't get caught with a black powder rifle or you will be prosecuted for
having a assult weapon! Yep, at one time, the rifle was the ultimate in
weaponry and was considered to be, in today's terms, an assult weapon!
I'll also note that the rat poison under your sink (or wherever you keep it)
is a weapon of mass destruction as the improper use of it can indeed kill a
number of people without warning to them.
Ya gotta get your facts straight guy or you will be considered to be a
genuine nut!

--
Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole?

Cliff wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 06:19:26 -0700, "127.0.0.1"
wrote:

In article ,
Cliff wrote:

[
3,000 Amer

SNIP!!!!!!!

Why don't you take your off-topic bull**** posts to the proper group?
Have someone teach you how to use Usenet.

Are you saying that I should leave this NG?

Now you're finally starting to let it sink in!

On 11 May 2005 17:32:07 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 16:22:45 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Good question. The problem would simply be solved by allowing anyone
with a CCW to fly with their personal firearm and a magzine or
cylinder full of frangible bullets.

Yes, but the frangible bit isn't necessary for decompression reasons, if
that's why you're saying that part. A hole in the skin of an aircraft,
at altitude, results in...a leak.

Of course not. I would require frangibles because of over penetration
on people.

And no Monica Missiles either.

Not familiar with that term?

When Clinton launched Tomahawk missiles at suspected terrorist
hangouts to deflect attention away from his various court dates
regarding his affair with Monica Lewinsky

Btw..you might find this interesting...

http://prorev.com/connex2.htm


Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On Wed, 11 May 2005 18:36:09 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 11 May 2005 17:32:07 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 16:22:45 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Good question. The problem would simply be solved by allowing anyone
with a CCW to fly with their personal firearm and a magzine or
cylinder full of frangible bullets.

Yes, but the frangible bit isn't necessary for decompression reasons, if
that's why you're saying that part. A hole in the skin of an aircraft,
at altitude, results in...a leak.

Of course not. I would require frangibles because of over penetration
on people.

Just checking.

And no Monica Missiles either.

Not familiar with that term?

When Clinton launched Tomahawk missiles at suspected terrorist
hangouts to deflect attention away from his various court dates
regarding his affair with Monica Lewinsky

Ah, the "wag the dog" thing.

Btw..you might find this interesting...
http://prorev.com/connex2.htm

I'll look at it later, thanks.

Dave

Bob May wrote:

Another nitwit that doesn't understand the rules.
There are no military poeple fighting in Iraq against the Americans. They
are all civilians as they don't wear a uniform.
There is always collateral damage whenever armies clash. When kids and
other such non-combatants are in the area between the armies, they also
lose.
Don't get caught with a black powder rifle or you will be prosecuted for
having a assult weapon! Yep, at one time, the rifle was the ultimate in
weaponry and was considered to be, in today's terms, an assult weapon!
I'll also note that the rat poison under your sink (or wherever you keep it)
is a weapon of mass destruction as the improper use of it can indeed kill a
number of people without warning to them.
Ya gotta get your facts straight guy or you will be considered to be a
genuine nut!

Will be!?

On Wed, 11 May 2005 12:26:14 -0400, Cliff wrote:

(snip)
Give it up, the Monica envy. It was NONE of YOUR business in the
first place.

STILL trying that lame "defense", eh? I've never heard of "None of Your
business" as a valid defense in a court of law. Is that a new defense to sexual
harrassment charges?

Notice the tap dancing still continuing after all these years.

You are GREEN with Monica envy.

You are a poor liar, and a not-very-artful dodger.

Ignoring
Clinton's perjury in front of a Grand Jury and pretending it never happened.

Legal terms matter and legal advice was had and followed.

So, where does the perjury come in there?

You seem to have been brainwashed by wingerbloggers, if
there was anything to wash in the first place.

More attempted dodging by way of ad hominem attacks, eh? If you can't defend
your stand, attack the opponent, right?

It was none of YOUR business.


Good defense. :/
Worked REALLY well for Clinton, didn't it?
It's working really well for Cliffie, isn't it?

Buy a handbag.

Buy a clue. Your obfuscation doesn't work.

Already have a few? How stained?

2 Weapons of Mass Destruction = No Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Found any "WMDS"?

Yes.
Can you see the DENIAL here? Notice the snip?
2 Weapons of Mass Destruction = No Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Found those "WMDs" yet?

YES. Found 2.
See the answer for your question here? You've been running and hiding from this
one for months. What's the matter, Cliffie, don't like this answer? Does it make
you uncomfortable? Keep squirming.

Still in winger denial?

Somebody's in denial, alright, but I wouldn't call it winger denial. I don't use
vague words like "winger" since they're so vague they're meaningless. You are a
liberal apologist.


Keep repeating a lie and many people will believe it.

(snip)

You wingers are so gullible .....

Not gullible enough for YOUR lies. :/

The wingerblogs told you better, eh?

Dunno, never heard of a wingerblog. Sounds like something you made up along with
the term "winger".

On Thu, 12 May 2005 07:07:37 GMT, (The Watcher)
wrote:

Found those "WMDs" yet?

YES. Found 2.

In your socks drawer?

I've heard some funny stories .... how old was the wingerblog?

See the answer for your question here? You've been running and hiding from this
one for months. What's the matter, Cliffie, don't like this answer? Does it make
you uncomfortable? Keep squirming.

Still in winger denial?

Somebody's in denial, alright, but I wouldn't call it winger denial. I don't use
vague words like "winger" since they're so vague they're meaningless. You are a
liberal apologist.

Still in winger denial?
--
Cliff

On Thu, 12 May 2005 07:07:37 GMT, (The Watcher)
wrote:

(snip)
Give it up, the Monica envy. It was NONE of YOUR business in the
first place.

STILL trying that lame "defense", eh? I've never heard of "None of Your
business" as a valid defense in a court of law.

How do you like the handbag?
--
Cliff

Gunner wrote:


Good question. The problem would simply be solved by allowing anyone
with a CCW to fly with their personal firearm and a magzine or
cylinder full of frangible bullets.

And no Monica Missiles either.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

This I like. I've made the point before (perhaps not here, don't
remember..), that an airplane full of folks going somewhere is a perfect
example of a disarmed society- and look how little it took for a few
criminals who simply broke the law, who didn't follow the instruction to
not bring weapons with them, to take it over. If you arm everyone who is
willing to be armed you change the balance considerably and a few
criminals are not adequate to take it over (let's assume, so as to
prevent distortion of the picture by the ignorant, that we arm all with
weapons that won't poke big holes in the body of the plane). In the case
of the 9/11 hijackings you could have armed the criminals too, and
they'd still have had a smaller chance than they did.

I suspect the gun-grabbers feel sympathy for criminals, perhaps even
admiration.. I suspect they have a secret desire to be a victim and
find the idea of defending themselves and those whom they (supposedly)
love to be revolting.. and instead of addressing the true problem, the
problem inside themselves, they direct it outward and hate those who
would defend themselves and their families, and the tools they would use
to do it.

John

"JohnM" wrote in message
...

I suspect the gun-grabbers feel sympathy for criminals, perhaps even
admiration.. I suspect they have a secret desire to be a victim and
find the idea of defending themselves and those whom they (supposedly)
love to be revolting.. and instead of addressing the true problem, the
problem inside themselves, they direct it outward and hate those who
would defend themselves and their families, and the tools they would use
to do it.

John

John, I've had some real drag-'em-out, face-to-face verbal battles with
people on the anti-gun side, when I was involved in pro-gun rallies and
lobbying for my state affiliate of the NRA.

From their point of view, things like what you say above make YOU the
problem. And that's the insight that you seem to be lacking when you fly off
in your imagination, trying to figure out what's on their minds. Think about
this objectively if you can: You're saying they have a "desire to be
victims." You say "they find the idea of defending themselves to be
revolting." These are absurd and childish things to say. You've cooked them
up in your imagination. And you've got guns.

So here's you, from their perspective: You're a little bit nutty and a whole
lot childish, you diminish them in value as human beings, and you have the
means to kill them in your hands.

That's why you're part of the problem, as they see it. That's why they don't
trust you. And, you know what? If you actually believe what you've written
above, I don't trust you, either. That's one reason that I'M well-armed.
There are too many people around who are armed to the teeth but who have no
respect for people who have different social or political views. They live
in their imaginations but they have guns in the here-and-now. No wonder many
anti-gunners don't trust them.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 13 May 2005 09:41:55 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"JohnM" wrote in message
...

I suspect the gun-grabbers feel sympathy for criminals, perhaps even
admiration.. I suspect they have a secret desire to be a victim and
find the idea of defending themselves and those whom they (supposedly)
love to be revolting.. and instead of addressing the true problem, the
problem inside themselves, they direct it outward and hate those who
would defend themselves and their families, and the tools they would use
to do it.

John

John, I've had some real drag-'em-out, face-to-face verbal battles with
people on the anti-gun side, when I was involved in pro-gun rallies and
lobbying for my state affiliate of the NRA.

From their point of view, things like what you say above make YOU the
problem. And that's the insight that you seem to be lacking when you fly off
in your imagination, trying to figure out what's on their minds. Think about
this objectively if you can: You're saying they have a "desire to be
victims." You say "they find the idea of defending themselves to be
revolting." These are absurd and childish things to say. You've cooked them
up in your imagination. And you've got guns.

So here's you, from their perspective: You're a little bit nutty and a whole
lot childish, you diminish them in value as human beings, and you have the
means to kill them in your hands.

That's why you're part of the problem, as they see it. That's why they don't
trust you. And, you know what? If you actually believe what you've written
above, I don't trust you, either. That's one reason that I'M well-armed.
There are too many people around who are armed to the teeth but who have no
respect for people who have different social or political views. They live
in their imaginations but they have guns in the here-and-now. No wonder many
anti-gunners don't trust them.


Ed,

That is powerful insight. But does it ring true?

Certainly John is reaching to make a point.

If you are really well armed to protect yourself against the likes of
John, do you not make his point??

Respectfully ,
Jim

"JK" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 May 2005 09:41:55 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"JohnM" wrote in message
...

I suspect the gun-grabbers feel sympathy for criminals, perhaps even
admiration.. I suspect they have a secret desire to be a victim and
find the idea of defending themselves and those whom they (supposedly)
love to be revolting.. and instead of addressing the true problem, the
problem inside themselves, they direct it outward and hate those who
would defend themselves and their families, and the tools they would
use
to do it.

John

John, I've had some real drag-'em-out, face-to-face verbal battles with
people on the anti-gun side, when I was involved in pro-gun rallies and
lobbying for my state affiliate of the NRA.

From their point of view, things like what you say above make YOU the
problem. And that's the insight that you seem to be lacking when you fly
off
in your imagination, trying to figure out what's on their minds. Think
about
this objectively if you can: You're saying they have a "desire to be
victims." You say "they find the idea of defending themselves to be
revolting." These are absurd and childish things to say. You've cooked
them
up in your imagination. And you've got guns.

So here's you, from their perspective: You're a little bit nutty and a
whole
lot childish, you diminish them in value as human beings, and you have
the
means to kill them in your hands.

That's why you're part of the problem, as they see it. That's why they
don't
trust you. And, you know what? If you actually believe what you've
written
above, I don't trust you, either. That's one reason that I'M well-armed.
There are too many people around who are armed to the teeth but who have
no
respect for people who have different social or political views. They
live
in their imaginations but they have guns in the here-and-now. No wonder
many
anti-gunners don't trust them.


Ed,

That is powerful insight. But does it ring true?

I think so. When I was involved in gun lobbying here in NJ, and involved in
organizing a rally in Trenton, I saw some nut-jobs who really gave me the
creeps. One "leader" on the pro-gun side, the guy who was the state head of
that pro-gun organization of Jews (I forget their name -- Jews for the
Second Amendment, maybe?) had, I swear, foam running out of both corners of
his mouth and he was flailing his arms like an epileptic. An old German
immigrant who wore an Australian digger hat was passing out "Running N*gger"
targets and talking about how we had to get used to shooting people with
dark skin, because they were "the real targets."

I've been shooting and hunting for 47 years, and of course I know that those
people are few and far between. But they're there, and they're armed.
Whenever some guy gets really irrational about some "others" who he thinks
are the big problem, and the guy is armed, my flags go up. How crazy is this
guy, anyway?, I wonder.

Certainly John is reaching to make a point.

"Reaching"? He's armchair-psychoanalyzing people who make him angry, and his
"analysis" is that they're psychopaths who love being victims. 'Think maybe
he'd like to help them along in that regard? Are you sure?


If you are really well armed to protect yourself against the likes of
John, do you not make his point??

His attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you put a wall between
yourself and the "others," and when you're armed, you become the source of
their fear.

As for protecting myself, I'm prepared for basic eventualities. Guns can be
the source of a lot of recreation, the means of self-defense, and a few
other positive things. They also can be the tool of choice for people with
certain kinds of attitudinal problems.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 13 May 2005 23:13:58 -0500, Eff_Off_Gunner wrote:

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On Wed, 11 May 2005 01:31:02 GMT, Gunner
dribbled the following in his knickers:


Cites? Opinions count for nothing.

By yer own reckoning, much of what you post appears to "count for
nothing", Mark.

Just my "opinion", though!


One should remember opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and
they all stink. Your's are no exception, Btw..why are you hiding your
identity? Ashamed of who you are?

Gunner

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stewart Mill