I have a small 1000 sqr foot shop behind the house and have a lot of basic
metal working tools, I'm interested in learning how to lathe some of my own
parts, mostly small car, motorcycle and some custom parts. I have a degree
as a Computer systems guy and was wondering if I should be looking at just a
basic Lathe 3' - 4' or something with CNC capabilities?

1) What type of lathe would you recommend? I need something that I can still
sue as my skills advanced.
2) Since the Lathe is mostly a toy cost is an issue.
3) Where is a good place to get the "bits" I need? I've heard of people
making their own bits from "Key stock" is this possible? how?
4) If I can find something used what type of price range/s am I looking at?
5) Is CNC worth the money for 1 of parts (no production here)

You might post this on Rec.crafts.metalworking to get a bit more
exposure from those that use lathes. Better yet google for info as
this has been discussed a lot.

I would try to plug into any local groups and meet some people that
have the same interests as you do. In Seattle there is a yahoo group
devoted to local folks that do metalworking.

You can't use key stock for lathe bits. Starting to sound like a
troll, with that question. Try Enco, J & L, MSC, or in the Seattle
area, Boeing Surplus.

Dan

wrote in message
oups.com...

You can't use key stock for lathe bits. Starting to sound like a
troll, with that question. Try Enco, J & L, MSC, or in the Seattle
area, Boeing Surplus.

I've made special-purpose bits by silverbrazing bits of HSS to keystock.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

You can't use key stock for lathe bits. Starting to sound like a
troll, with that question. Try Enco, J & L, MSC, or in the Seattle
area, Boeing Surplus.

I've made special-purpose bits by silverbrazing bits of HSS to keystock.

That wouldn't really be quite the same thing, now would it? If that were
the case, then brazing a TC tip to a mild steel shank would be using mild
steel for bits, no?

LLoyd

CNC adds an entire layer of cost. There are lots of resources online
about very creative CNC. The more plug-n-play you get, the more spendy
it gets.

In addition, I think that a CNC mill would be a higher priority than a
CNC lathe. Even more so, gaining experience in machining would be a
great benefit before launching into CNC. Vital I might even say.

You mention 3' or 4', typically a lathe in the USA is measured in swing
and represents the theoretical largest diameter piece you can turn. (you
turn parts on a lathe, you don't lathe parts on a lathe). For example a
9" Lathe would be expected to turn a 9" diameter part over the bed. On
the smaller lathes that's really impractical, but there you have it. IMO
a 9" lathe is as small as you would want to go. Bed length has never
been an important issue for me.

For tooling, HSS bits are inexpensive, why even try to skim a few cents?
I prefer carbide tooling, usually insert tooling, but brazed carbide
tools are also reasonably inexpensive and do a suitable job.

For starting:

1). A 9" or 10" swing lathe with a quick-change gearbox.
2). A turret tool post with right-hand & facing tools.
3). A parting tool holder, parting tool.
4). 3-jaw scroll chuck
5). Live center

Others may chime in with their own different preferences & such, with
good reasons behind them. For instance a 4-jaw lathe chuck will be more
versatile, potentially more accurate, more cumbersome. If you can
find/afford a quick change tool post I'd recommend it. Depends on your
personality, but I can't imagine using my lathe without it.



HotRod said the following on 5/9/2005 8:19 AM:
I have a small 1000 sqr foot shop behind the house and have a lot of basic
metal working tools, I'm interested in learning how to lathe some of my own
parts, mostly small car, motorcycle and some custom parts. I have a degree
as a Computer systems guy and was wondering if I should be looking at just a
basic Lathe 3' - 4' or something with CNC capabilities?

1) What type of lathe would you recommend? I need something that I can still
sue as my skills advanced.
2) Since the Lathe is mostly a toy cost is an issue.
3) Where is a good place to get the "bits" I need? I've heard of people
making their own bits from "Key stock" is this possible? how?
4) If I can find something used what type of price range/s am I looking at?
5) Is CNC worth the money for 1 of parts (no production here)

I agree that this sounded funny, but I was discussing getting a lathe, with
a fellow who has a lathe, and he was saying he was thinking of getting rid
of his because it has a lot of play in it. When I asked if he had any of the
"bits" he said No but that he heard you could grind your own from "key
stock". I told him that I would find out if this was possible pretty quick.
look forward to all of the comments.

As someone mentioned here they suggest a mill over a lathe. What are the
benefits of the one over the other? I'm I correct when I assume that mill
is a lot like a vertical drill press? I will be trying to get some
"professional" training but I prefer to have the tools first so I can
practice at home as I go.

HotRod wrote:
I agree that this sounded funny, but I was discussing getting a lathe, with
a fellow who has a lathe, and he was saying he was thinking of getting rid
of his because it has a lot of play in it. When I asked if he had any of the
"bits" he said No but that he heard you could grind your own from "key
stock". I told him that I would find out if this was possible pretty quick.
look forward to all of the comments.



You certainly can grind your own tool bits from key stock, and they will
cut very well as long as what you are cutting is substantially softer
than key stock. Things like butter, styrofoam .. oh, you want to cut METAL?

:-)

HotRod wrote:
I have a small 1000 sqr foot shop behind the house and have a lot of basic
metal working tools, I'm interested in learning how to lathe some of my own
parts, mostly small car, motorcycle and some custom parts. I have a degree
as a Computer systems guy and was wondering if I should be looking at just a
basic Lathe 3' - 4' or something with CNC capabilities?

You could add cnc to your machine after learning how to use it by making
your own retrofit or conversion.

1) What type of lathe would you recommend? I need something that I can still
sue as my skills advanced.

Lathes are classifed by swing diameter by length between centers in
inches or mm (8x14 or 210x320). What type of car/motorcycle parts are
you wanting to make? motorcycle axel= small lathe like a 9x20 bench top(
200-300 lb machine) , car axel = 14x40 or bigger (800-1000 lbs)

2) Since the Lathe is mostly a toy cost is an issue.

Benchtop lathes in the 7x range are cheap (under $500) you can learn on
one but are limited on the size work that can be done.

3) Where is a good place to get the "bits" I need? I've heard of people
making their own bits from "Key stock" is this possible? how?

HSS tool bits look alot like key stock but are much harder and can be
ground to many different shapes for cutting features on the parts being
made.

4) If I can find something used what type of price range/s am I looking at?

I found a guy who needed floor space for some new machinery and wanted
$500 for a 16x36 leblonde. That was a 1500 lb. machine and the cost of
moving one and the space it takes up is large. something to think about,
What if you decide you don't like machining?

5) Is CNC worth the money for 1 of parts (no production here)

Yes and No

Machine types, if you need to make brackets, valve covers or stuff not
round a mill is nice. If you want to make round stuff the lathe will work.

I just got a 8x14 lathe and am wanting for my mill to come in next
month. They will complement my sd180 nicely.

Jack

On Mon, 09 May 2005 09:19:57 -0400, HotRod wrote:

I have a small 1000 sqr foot shop behind the house and have a lot of basic
metal working tools, I'm interested in learning how to lathe some of my own
parts, mostly small car, motorcycle and some custom parts. I have a degree
as a Computer systems guy and was wondering if I should be looking at just a
basic Lathe 3' - 4' or something with CNC capabilities?

More important than a lathe's length is the maximum diameter part that
can be turned on it. This dimension is known as its "swing." In the US,
a lathe's swing is refers to a diameter, and in the UK it is a radius.
I.e. a 12" lathe in the US is a 6" lathe in the UK.

1) What type of lathe would you recommend? I need something that I can still
sue as my skills advanced.
2) Since the Lathe is mostly a toy cost is an issue.

These two criteria are usually mutually exclusive, unless you can find
a good used lathe locally. You will find that a CNC machine will be
more expensive than a manually operated one.

3) Where is a good place to get the "bits" I need? I've heard of people
making their own bits from "Key stock" is this possible? how?

The tool bits used in a lathe do look like key stock but are not
made of the same material. Tool bits are made of a special alloy
called High Speed Steel (HSS), which is specially designed to withstand
the tremendous amount of friction and heat involved in metal cutting.

Many suppliers sell tool bit blanks of various sizes. These blanks must
be ground to a specific shape (by you, the operator) depending on the
type of metal to be cut, and other factors.

There is also a bewilderingly huge array of carbide insert tool bits
on the market. Some people swear by them. I've never used them myself,
preferring to stick with old fashioned HSS blanks.

4) If I can find something used what type of price range/s am I looking at?

Pricing for used machinery varies substantially depending on availability
in your area, shipping charges if purchased non-locally, condition, size,
and capabilities. With respect to capabilities, you will find that accessories
for machine tools (aka "tooling") are not cheap either, and many people wind
up spending as much or more on tooling as they did the original machine.
Tooling makes a machine more versatile. In fact, to do anything useful at
all will require some amount of tooling (toolpost, chuck). So a machine
with a lot of tooling will be much more expensive (and versatile) than one
without.

5) Is CNC worth the money for 1 of parts (no production here)

Not to me it isn't. As a beginner, I would want to invest the extra
cost of CNC into measuring and layout tools such as micrometers, scribes,
calipers, etc. And books. South Bend's "How to Run a Lathe", and Machinery's
Handbook (old editions are fine, and cheaper, for beginners) come to mind.

Also have a look at these links:

MIT's "Introduction to Machine Tools"
http://www-me.mit.edu/lectures/machi...s/outline.html

"How to Buy a Lathe" by Dave Ficken (read the copyright blurb and click "yes")
http://www.mermac.com/advice.html

One of my favorites, the US Army's "Fundamentals of Machine Tools"
http://metalwebnews.com/machine-tools/fmt.html

Lathe is definitely first. Make round things of all sorts. Make bigger
round things fit into smaller holes. Make adapters and special tools.
Need to press a bushing out? Turn a piece of stock to the ID of your
busing, then leave a step and turn the next section to the ID of the
piece the bushing presses into.
I'd suggest starting with one of the 7x10 or 7x12 or 7x14
minilathes. These have almost every function that much bigger lathes
have, only in miniature. I use my mahcine tools mostly to make and
modify pieces for my SCCA race cars. Almost everything I've every used
my 9x17 Logan lathe for could have been done on a 7x10. $299 (homier) to
$550, pay attention to what comes with it.

A mill is better for making 3 dimensional items. If you need a bracket
to precise dimensions, you want a mill. You can start with a minimill
and do most anything up to about 12" X 6" X 6". $399 to $550

CNC may come later. If you are making one-off parts manual works fine.
If you do want to dable with CNC, the minilathe and minimills are
probably the most-converted machines out there, at least on a hobbiest
basis.

If you want something bigger, I'd suggest a Logan or South Bend or
Rockwell in the 9" to 12" swing range. Atlas are plentifull, but have
inherent weaknesses. Shopping for 'pre-owned' machine tools is fraught
with peril for the novice. Lots to be said for starting out small, new,
and imported. Don't get me wrong, I love old machines, and have made a
2nd hobby of scouring the countryside for new restoration projects.

For bits, you can get a set of 30 brazed carbide toolbits for around $25
last I looked. Pretty good way to get started, no grinding involved,
cheap enough to toss when they get chipped or dull.

Get a minilathe, make some chips, learn.

- -
Rex Burkheimer
Fort Worth TX

HotRod wrote:
I have a small 1000 sqr foot shop behind the house and have a lot of basic
metal working tools, I'm interested in learning how to lathe some of my own
parts, mostly small car, motorcycle and some custom parts. I have a degree
as a Computer systems guy and was wondering if I should be looking at just a
basic Lathe 3' - 4' or something with CNC capabilities?

1) What type of lathe would you recommend? I need something that I can still
sue as my skills advanced.
2) Since the Lathe is mostly a toy cost is an issue.
3) Where is a good place to get the "bits" I need? I've heard of people
making their own bits from "Key stock" is this possible? how?
4) If I can find something used what type of price range/s am I looking at?
5) Is CNC worth the money for 1 of parts (no production here)

Just to get a better idea. My first project will be some new forward
controls for my motorcycle and some other "turning" work, I'm wondering if I
can use a Mill to "turn" pieces?

HotRod wrote:
Just to get a better idea. My first project will be some new forward
controls for my motorcycle and some other "turning" work, I'm wondering if I
can use a Mill to "turn" pieces?


How big will the pieces be that are round?

You can turn stock on a mill by two methods: 1) rotory table 2) turning
using the spindle.

1) on the rotory table you can turn larger parts by mounting workpiece
to the table and use end mill to cut the part.

2) if the parts are small enough to be mounted in a collect in the
spindle you can mount a lathe tool in a vise and turn parts round using
the spindle quill feed.

jackK wrote:
HotRod wrote:

Just to get a better idea. My first project will be some new forward
controls for my motorcycle and some other "turning" work, I'm
wondering if I can use a Mill to "turn" pieces?

How big will the pieces be that are round?

You can turn stock on a mill by two methods: 1) rotory table 2) turning
using the spindle.

1) on the rotory table you can turn larger parts by mounting workpiece
to the table and use end mill to cut the part.

2) if the parts are small enough to be mounted in a collect in the
spindle you can mount a lathe tool in a vise and turn parts round using
the spindle quill feed.

One other method I forgot:

You can use a boring head to turn round item by turning the boring bar
around 180 degrees and cutting around the outside of the workpeice.

I used that method to turn a piston crankrod pin on a model plane engine.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

I've made special-purpose bits by silverbrazing bits of HSS to keystock.

Surely you jest? Besides all the trouble to do that, such a bit
would be "bendy" to say the least. Okay, it would take you beyond the
butter/styrofoam/jelly domain, perhaps into aluminum and soft brass .. but
steel? Unless of course, your usage of HSS/keystock bits had some
sensible, albeit arcane purpose to it. I'd have to be pretty hard-up for a
piece of HSS tool bit to go that route.
We should point out to Hot Rod that in most locales, it is against
the law to sell a lathe without proof of ownership of a bench grinder.
Some other points to note:

1. Is this a troll? He has a "small", 1000 sq. foot shop behind the house.
I'm scraping by with 15 x 20 and many of us, I know, would kill for 10x15.

2. While one mills things with a milling machine, shapes with a shaper, and
drills with a drill press, one does not "lathe" things with a lathe, one
"turns" them.

3. Your computing skills won't help you much. It will help only with the
easy stuff, which is to say, CNC programming languages. It won't help with
feed and speed, type of bits to use, and not crashing the tool into parts by
attempting to pass through solid metal or to the other side of the
tailstock, or attempting other impossible operations. One should learn
something about machining metal before going into CNC. Unless, of course,
you consider your CNC lathe as a disposable tool.

4) What type of lathe would you recommend? I need something that I can still
use as my skills advanced.

4. The biggest lathe you have room for and can afford. I would suggest a
12" a x 48" or so: but a 9x36 will probably do for you also. The biggest
decision is buying new or used. Used is fine, but you don't seem to have
the experience needed to tell a good one from junk. If you can get some
expert hands-on advice, that's the way to go.

5) Since the Lathe is mostly a toy cost is an issue.

Don't think in terms of making parts for a car or motorcycle on a "toy"
lathe .. at least not functional parts. As for cost. The lathe is half
the cost. Expect to spend as much on tooling as on the lathe before you
have something you can really use. (e.g. a bench grinder, various chucks,
collets, tool holders, etc. etc.)

5) Where is a good place to get the "bits" I need? I've heard of people
making their own bits from "Key stock" is this possible? how?

5. You buy new bit blanks at any machine-shop supplier such MSC or Enco.
That's the expensive way. The cheaper way is to buy used tool bits (often
by the pound) at flea markets and garage sales. Whover suggested key stock
was either 1) pulling your leg, or 2) only works with soft woods such as
balsa and pine, or 3) really hates you , or 4) is a total ignoramus.

6) If I can find something used what type of price range/s am I looking at?

Depends on where you live. Generally, a decent 9" x 36" (e.g., a 9" South
Bend) in good condition with a quick-change gear box can be had for about
$750. But that is probably stripped of all tooling. As for range on a good
9" lathe, expect a minimum of $500 (good luck) to $4,000 (e.g. a Schaublin).
The question is about as sharp as asking "What does a motor vehicle cost."
and you'll be including everything from a micro-motor scooter to a 500 ton
earth mover truck.

7) Is CNC worth the money for 1 off parts (no production here)

7. Not really. It generally takes as long to program the tool as it would
be to make it manually. Probably longer because it is much easier to make
mistakes with a CNC program than with a manual tool. I was in the computer
hardware and software business for almost 50 years before I
retired..Including designing hardware and software for CNC machines. My
tools are all manual. It is only when I do a limited production run of
something (e.g., 25 or more pieces) that I wish I had a CNC setup.

Boris

--

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email bsquare "at" sprintmail.com

------------------------------------------

On Mon, 9 May 2005 09:19:57 -0400, "HotRod"
wrote:

I'm interested in learning how to lathe some of my own parts,

You "turn" things on a lathe.

IMHO, don't buy new, don't buy CNC.

There's a good buyer's market out there at the moment in good
ex-industrial non-CNC lathes that are being replaced by CNC equipment.
They're not cheap (twice the price of a new Chinese lathe), but they're
bigger and they're a much better deal. If you _can_ afford one, go for
one of these.

If you're turning car parts, you want a bigger lathe than the usual new
Chinese "model engineer" models.

CNC is a great thing for milling machines, but much less useful for
lathes. You can turn most things in a short time anyway, so there's just
not the time saving to be had. You can do most turning by hand, when
there's a lot of non-square CNC milling that you'll never be able to do
without. So if you feel the urge to try CNC, then go to it - but do it
on a mill first.

CNC lathes dont really count for much unless you're doing repetitive
work, and they have automatic stock feed.

Lathes are cheap. Tooling is expensive. An "expensive" deal for a
complete rig with all the tooling is a much better deal than a cheap
deal on a bare lathe.


--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

OK despite what some think I am not trolling, and I know you might think
that because of my stupid questions and apparently "LARGE" shop but you have
to understand that my last shop was 4 times this size, YES I do have two
large shoos. One for wood working and one for just metal and automotive work
but that doesn't mean I know anything about milling or using a Lathe. I'm
just asking questions based on what I think I know or what I've heard. I'd
like to buy a lathe to practice on and learn but I'm looking for something
that I can grow with.

Can anyone recommend some good location in Ontario to hunt for a used Lathe,
or websites? I think from all of the comments a lathe is the way to go and
then when I need it a milling machine down the road. I appreciate all of the
advice, THANKS

I don't know what types of car and motorcycle parts you have in mind,
but there is another dimension to consider when looking at a lathe.
That is the size of the hole through the headstock. Frequently with
long parts you are only going to be working on the ends, and then the
best way to do the work is with most of the bar sticking through the
chuck and out the back. This only works if the work is smaller than
the hole through the spindle. For many of the older American machines
in the 9" or 10" size, the spindle is going to be MT#3 and the through
hole will be a little larger than 3/4". If you were doing gunsmithing
that wouldn't be acceptable, but unless you are going to be doing axles
for motorcycles you may be able to work within that range.

I would also respectfully dissent on the use of carbide tooling for
small lathes. Carbide really likes to take fairly agressive cuts, but
it doesn't like vibration or chatter. On my small (9" Logan) lathe, I
find that it is really easy to chip the edges of carbide tools. I
suspect that with more experience I would be able to get more rigid
setups and would have the confidence to hog some material off with
carbide, but for most of what I do, high-speed steel tools are cheap,
and I don't have to get special grinding wheels to sharpen them or to
grind new tooling.

On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:42:41 -0400, "HotRod"
wrote:

Can anyone recommend some good location in Ontario to hunt for a used Lathe,
or websites? I think from all of the comments a lathe is the way to go and
then when I need it a milling machine down the road. I appreciate all of the
advice, THANKS

Ontario Canada, or California?

Gunner

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stewart Mill

In article .com,
says...

For many of the older American machines
in the 9" or 10" size, the spindle is going to be MT#3 and the through
hole will be a little larger than 3/4". If you were doing gunsmithing
that wouldn't be acceptable, but unless you are going to be doing axles
for motorcycles you may be able to work within that range.

South Bend heavy 10 gives a 1.375 through hole, takes a 5C collet
in the spindle. This is considerable advantage for working on
old motorcycle parts, believe me.

I think the Logan with that spindle is an 11 or 13 inch swing
machine.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

SORRY, Ontario CANADA

If it's Ontario Canada, pick up a TriAd buy and sell paper - lots of ads for
machines and dealers.

Brian


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:42:41 -0400, "HotRod"
wrote:

Can anyone recommend some good location in Ontario to hunt for a used
Lathe,
or websites? I think from all of the comments a lathe is the way to go and
then when I need it a milling machine down the road. I appreciate all of
the
advice, THANKS

Ontario Canada, or California?

Gunner

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and
degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has
nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stewart Mill

HotRod wrote:
I have a small 1000 sqr foot shop behind the house and have a lot of
basic
metal working tools, I'm interested in learning how to lathe some of
my own
parts, mostly small car, motorcycle and some custom parts. I have a
degree
as a Computer systems guy and was wondering if I should be looking at
just a
basic Lathe 3' - 4' or something with CNC capabilities?

1) What type of lathe would you recommend? I need something that I
can still
sue as my skills advanced.
2) Since the Lathe is mostly a toy cost is an issue.
3) Where is a good place to get the "bits" I need? I've heard of
people
making their own bits from "Key stock" is this possible? how?
4) If I can find something used what type of price range/s am I
looking at?
5) Is CNC worth the money for 1 of parts (no production here)

1: A lathe is more accurate and more practical than a mill for round
things (this because some people have suggested a mill and you seem
confused).

2: Have a look at http://www.mini-lathe.com for enlightement. You don't
have to buy that specific lathe (although it will fit the job), but you
will learn what you can do on a small lathe.

I'm far from a machining expert, but come from a automotive racing
background and over the last year or so have gotten into metalworking after
a number of years of futzing with other people's equipment. I have a couple
of thoughts.

I use my mill way more than my lathe for making race car and street car
bits. Without knowing what you want to make, I'm not suggesting you get a
mill first, but just giving you my experience. If you're serious about
making stuff for cars and bikes, you will want and need both and should plan
on it. You certainly have enough space (note the jealousy - I've got an 11'
by 17' garage into which I put my metalworking stuff and my current project
car).

Although I didn't know a tremendous amount about machine tools, I did know
what I wanted to make, and had enough experience to figure out for me which
should come first. In order for you to figure this out and get some idea of
where you'd like to head, I suggest you go to some machining/model
engineering/custom car or bike club meetings and talk to some folks that are
making stuff similar to what you'd like to make and get their take. If you
have a friend or acquaintance at a fab shop, I would suggest you take them
out to lunch and pick their brain. Maybe a library or Amazon would be a
good place to spend some time.

Regards,

Peter





"HotRod" wrote in message
...
As someone mentioned here they suggest a mill over a lathe. What are the
benefits of the one over the other? I'm I correct when I assume that mill
is a lot like a vertical drill press? I will be trying to get some
"professional" training but I prefer to have the tools first so I can
practice at home as I go.

wrote:

1: A lathe is more accurate and more practical than a mill for round
things (this because some people have suggested a mill and you seem
confused).


A lathe is more accurate... (this depends on the operator/machinist)
and more practical than a mill for round things.... (yes, this is true)
This because some people have suggested a mill and you seem confused....
(He asked, can you make round things with a mill? Yes you can)

2: Have a look at http://www.mini-lathe.com for enlightement. You don't
have to buy that specific lathe (although it will fit the job), but you
will learn what you can do on a small lathe.


The mini-lathe would be a great machine to learn how with. He has stated
he wanted machines he could grow with. The mini-lathe has it's limits on
size of parts that can be made.

In a post earier from Peter, he mentions that he also makes auto parts
and uses his mill alot more then a lathe. But since the OP has a huge
shop he should get both.

Bridgeport mill or clone and a 16x? lathe

That's my take, Jack

On Tue, 10 May 2005 17:20:05 -0500, jackK wrote:

A lathe is more accurate...

Cheap crap lathes are _much_ more accurate than cheap mills.

It's intrinisc in the design of a lathe that it can turn something
that's more accurate than the lathe itself. OTOH, a mill can't make
anything more accurate than itself, and usually rather worse owing to
vibration. So a "bottom end" lathe might be a useful tool, whilst a
similar quality mill is just an exercise in frustration.

It's rarely done these days, but in the glory days of steam engine
building on Myford 7s, a lot of milling was done on the cross slide.
Myford even fitted it with T slots specially. You can also achieve a
lot of flat surface machining by turning a non-round piece bolted to the
faceplate.

On Tue, 10 May 2005 17:20:05 -0500, jackK
wrote:

wrote:

1: A lathe is more accurate and more practical than a mill for round
things (this because some people have suggested a mill and you seem
confused).


A lathe is more accurate... (this depends on the operator/machinist)
and more practical than a mill for round things.... (yes, this is true)
This because some people have suggested a mill and you seem confused....
(He asked, can you make round things with a mill? Yes you can)

2: Have a look at http://www.mini-lathe.com for enlightement. You don't
have to buy that specific lathe (although it will fit the job), but you
will learn what you can do on a small lathe.


The mini-lathe would be a great machine to learn how with. He has stated
he wanted machines he could grow with. The mini-lathe has it's limits on
size of parts that can be made.

In a post earier from Peter, he mentions that he also makes auto parts
and uses his mill alot more then a lathe. But since the OP has a huge
shop he should get both.

Bridgeport mill or clone and a 16x? lathe

That's my take, Jack

a 12-14" lathe will do 99.999% of the sort of work this fellow will
likely ever do.

Anything over that..and tis simply too big, too heavy and doesnt turn
fast enough for his sort of work.

Gunner, Machine tool repair tech, broker for machine tools

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

On 10 May 2005 09:08:22 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

South Bend heavy 10 gives a 1.375 through hole, takes a 5C collet
in the spindle. This is considerable advantage for working on
old motorcycle parts, believe me.

I think the Logan with that spindle is an 11 or 13 inch swing
machine.

Logan 11", 12" and most 14" had 1-3/8" spindle bore. Logan 14" Model
6565 and 6530 had a 1-5/8" bore.


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On Wed, 11 May 2005 12:33:50 GMT, Scott S. Logan
wrote:

On 10 May 2005 09:08:22 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

South Bend heavy 10 gives a 1.375 through hole, takes a 5C collet
in the spindle. This is considerable advantage for working on
old motorcycle parts, believe me.

I think the Logan with that spindle is an 11 or 13 inch swing
machine.

Logan 11", 12" and most 14" had 1-3/8" spindle bore. Logan 14" Model
6565 and 6530 had a 1-5/8" bore.


A Logan 11 is an good machine for the average home shop.
One in good condition anyways.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Andy Dingley wrote:

It's rarely done these days, but in the glory days of steam engine
building on Myford 7s, a lot of milling was done on the cross slide.
Myford even fitted it with T slots specially.

There is still a vertical crossslide adapter that fits in said T slots.
Works a treat, on jobs roughly 3" x 3".

Steve

1) What type of lathe would you recommend? I need something that I can
still
sue as my skills advanced.
2) Since the Lathe is mostly a toy cost is an issue.
3) Where is a good place to get the "bits" I need? I've heard of people
making their own bits from "Key stock" is this possible? how?
4) If I can find something used what type of price range/s am I looking
at?
5) Is CNC worth the money for 1 of parts (no production here)

I would suggest a 9 x 20 Lathe about a grand and a very good size to learn
on. Well tooled out with DRO doable for about $2,000. Excellent for one
off and learning lathe operation with still enough size for many projects.
Check Enco and Grizzley for pricing. This lathe can also be converted too
CNC at a later date fairly cheaply.

Join yahoo Group 9 x 20 Lathe group resources and information are excellent.
As usual for Chinese it is an assembled kit some work and you can have an
excellent machine!

Ken

I would suggest a 9 x 20 Lathe about a grand and a very good size to learn
on. Well tooled out with DRO doable for about $2,000. Excellent for one

Hum. Not sure I would agree with that. I know two guys that started
with 9x20s. One guy upgraded to a rockwell 11x24 and is so much happier.
Its a lot more lathe for about the same cost. The other guy upgraded
to a myford super 7. Pretty much the same size, but has a real QC
gear box and a nice QC toolpost too for 2k.

On the other hand, I have a South Bend milling attachment that I
adapted to my Logan 9" lathe, and I have given up on using it. I had
two problems with the setup. First, the adapter mounts to a circular
dovetail on the cross-slide, and while my adapter seems to be stable,
the setscrews that clamp onto the dovetail like to slip at inopportune
times drawing the work into the cutter and causing a crash. The second
is that my saddle is designed to take load down, bearing on the ways,
but has maybe .010" play if something wants to lift the saddle. Again
this play has caused a crash or two if its own.

Funny how pieces seem to move gently away from a milling cutter but, if
they are going to move into the cutter, they always seem to jump. Must
be a positive feedback loop.

Some lathe designs seem to tolerate milling much better than mine. I
gave up on mine and now have a Clausing mill to go with the lathe. Not
too many crashes on the Clausing with the 3" Kurt vise.

On 12 May 2005 14:14:09 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:

The other guy upgraded
to a myford super 7. Pretty much the same size, but has a real QC
gear box and a nice QC toolpost too for 2k.

I've never understood Myfords. Sure, they're nice enough, but they're
_tiny_ (esp. through the headstock) and the prices are insane. Fetish
objects for the model engineering duffers.

Give me a Colchester or a Triumph any day.


--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

to a myford super 7. Pretty much the same size, but has a real QC
gear box and a nice QC toolpost too for 2k.

I've never understood Myfords. Sure, they're nice enough, but they're
_tiny_ (esp. through the headstock) and the prices are insane. Fetish
objects for the model engineering duffers.

Give me a Colchester or a Triumph any day.

Have you ever used one? I have owed three. I presently have a nice
minty green one that feels like new. It is very pleasant to use
and can do serious work for a small lathe.

I have a VERY nice rockwell 11x24 that has 5C collets and just about
every accessory you could want, but I still use the Myford S7 for lots
of things, particulary small things when I need high RPM.

I think a Colchester would be too big and slow for many things I do.
However I could probably be pursuaded to trade my myford in on a
Hardinge HLV!

chuck

On 13 May 2005 14:00:21 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:

I think a Colchester would be too big and slow for many things I do.
However I could probably be pursuaded to trade my myford in on a
Hardinge HLV!

chuck

I have both G

http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner/myshop

Gunner

"Veterans, and anyone sensible, take cover when there's incoming.
A cloud of testosterone makes a **** poor flack shield."
Offbreed

I think a Colchester would be too big and slow for many things I do.
However I could probably be pursuaded to trade my myford in on a
Hardinge HLV!

chuck

I have both G

http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner/myshop

buy who painted it with a spray can? I'm refering to that
big red 20!

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On 13 May 2005 14:00:21 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:

I think a Colchester would be too big and slow for many things I do.
However I could probably be pursuaded to trade my myford in on a
Hardinge HLV!

chuck

I have both G

http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner/myshop

Gunner

"Veterans, and anyone sensible, take cover when there's incoming.
A cloud of testosterone makes a **** poor flack shield."
Offbreed


Great pictures, thanks....

xman

On 13 May 2005 14:00:21 GMT, (Chuck
Sherwood) wrote:

I think a Colchester would be too big and slow for many things I do.
However I could probably be pursuaded to trade my myford in on a
Hardinge HLV!
Get a Colchester Chipmaster - variable speed 30-3000 rpm. 5" centre
height, 20" centres and a far, far better lathe than a myford.
Later model Colchester Student would be another good home shop choice.
Geoff