Harbor Freight has a 13x40 lathe on sale right now for $2000. Does
anyone here own one? How was the quality? I have heard alot of
negative comments about HF equipment, but I still have to ask what
people's opinion is.
Thanks in advance. Eric

"distracted" wrote in
oups.com:

Harbor Freight has a 13x40 lathe on sale right now for $2000. Does
anyone here own one? How was the quality? I have heard alot of
negative comments about HF equipment, but I still have to ask what
people's opinion is.
Thanks in advance. Eric

Its junk I think you would be better off looking for a good brand
used lathe

I located a used 9x36 Rockwell... I am concerned I will run out of
swing, small bore (4C collet), no metric threads. Hence the pause in
buying it. It is in excellent condition. I have also considered
trying to find a Logan 12x36 (larger bore + 5C collets), but no success
yet. Eric

Ron wrote:
"distracted" wrote in
oups.com:

Harbor Freight has a 13x40 lathe on sale right now for $2000. Does
anyone here own one? How was the quality? I have heard alot of
negative comments about HF equipment, but I still have to ask what
people's opinion is.
Thanks in advance. Eric

Its junk I think you would be better off looking for a good brand
used lathe

Hello, Ron.

Please be more specific. For example, you might say something such as
"It's made in China, and that ticks me off"! :-)

Mike Mandaville
needing some _usable_ information

Where do you live?

"distracted" wrote in message
oups.com...
I located a used 9x36 Rockwell... I am concerned I will run out of
swing, small bore (4C collet), no metric threads. Hence the pause in
buying it. It is in excellent condition. I have also considered
trying to find a Logan 12x36 (larger bore + 5C collets), but no success
yet. Eric

Brampton, suburb of Toronto, Ontario Canada

I have only my anecdotal experiences, but I think that Chinese tools are
being graded before shipment:
1) Good tools to to Jet and Enco
2) Bad tools go to Grizzly and harbor freight

Walking through an HF store, I would not take anything in the store if
it were all free, including heavy machinery.

Leafing through the Jet and Enco line, I could pick a few things I would
make room for.

Clark Magnuson wrote:
I have only my anecdotal experiences, but I think that Chinese tools
are
being graded before shipment:
1) Good tools to to Jet and Enco
2) Bad tools go to Grizzly and harbor freight

Walking through an HF store, I would not take anything in the store
if
it were all free, including heavy machinery.

Leafing through the Jet and Enco line, I could pick a few things I
would
make room for.

Hello, Clark.

Neither you nor Ron have been specific, though I asked Ron specifically
to provide me with an example, Do you honestly expect the legion of
7x10 owners to take you at your word? Confidentially, such a point of
view seems rather humorous to me. I have already said it once, and I
will say it again:

I need some information that I can use!

Anytyhing else is just rumor and innuendo. If you fellows actually did
know what you were talking about, you would be able to come up with
some examples. The information that you have evidently "walked
through" a Harbor Freight store doesn't impress me in the least.

Mike Mandaville
Austin, Texas
who is getting ready to _duplicate_ his own 7x10

I need some information that I can use!

OK.
1) Everything I have purchased from HF and Griz is crap no exceptions
over the 25 years.

2) Most things that I have purchased from JET or Enco are good. Few
excepions.

Let me define those terms for those from Raelinda:
1) Crap: I am sorry I bought it. I can't use it, the quality is too low.
Give it away, throw it away, or use as a door stop.
2) Good: I am glad I bought it. I find it useful.

My statements are anecdotal, as I said.
But what else are you going to get from a forum?

"Clark Magnuson" wrote in message
...

Walking through an HF store, I would not take anything in the
store if it were all free, including heavy machinery.


That's a rather absurd statement considering that Harbor Freight sells a
number of quality, brand-name tools, including: Ingersoll-Rand, DeWalt,
Milwaukee, Makita, McCulloch, Bosch, Estwing, and even Mitutoyo. Not all can
be found in every store, but I have bought brand-name tools at my local
Harbor Freight.

As for the Chinese tooling, HF's stuff is generally no better or worse than
that of the other tooling retailers. If you're a discriminating buyer, you
can get some very decent tools at a good price.

- Michael

I think I have sturred up a hornets nest!

Eric

On Sun, 08 May 2005 10:07:20 GMT, "DeepDiver"
wrote:

"Clark Magnuson" wrote in message
...

Walking through an HF store, I would not take anything in the
store if it were all free, including heavy machinery.


That's a rather absurd statement considering that Harbor Freight sells a
number of quality, brand-name tools, including: Ingersoll-Rand, DeWalt,
Milwaukee, Makita, McCulloch, Bosch, Estwing, and even Mitutoyo. Not all can
be found in every store, but I have bought brand-name tools at my local
Harbor Freight.

As for the Chinese tooling, HF's stuff is generally no better or worse than
that of the other tooling retailers. If you're a discriminating buyer, you
can get some very decent tools at a good price.

- Michael

Yes indeed.

After the burglarly that cleaned out $15,000 worth of tools, tooling
and parts from my truck in 2000, I could only afford Stuff from HF.
Ive only replaced a few items that broke or became worn, and I use
them professionally daily. I bought a cheap pair of dykes, and they
became worn in about 3 yrs and the crimper/bolt cutter busted the
hinge pin/rivet. The apparently hardened 10-32 cap screw I was
shortening was a bit much for it.

Gunner


Gunner


"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stewart Mill

I think I have sturred up a hornets nest!

Eric



Nah..this is just R.C.M. on a quiet day! ;-).

Eric, I have yet to see anything from Harbor Freight that I would buy,
let alone a product that they are selling for $2,000. They sell only
cheap, Chinese, junk!

If you want a lathe, better off searching eBay for a used Logan, South
Bend, or Atlas machine.

Harry C.

I have tools made by Milwaukee, Makita, McCulloch, Bosch, Estwing, and
Mitutoyo.
Those are very good tools.
I saw nothing of that quality in the Kent WA HF store a month ago.
Maybe my eyes were blinded by my disgust for what I DID see, and maybe
the good stuff is locked up.

While we were there, my brother bought a $200 grinder that looks just
like my $242 grinder from ENCO or J&L:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=449
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46727
http://www.jlindustrial.com/catalog/...&id=ISG-12000J

However, the HF grinder shook horribly and had to be exchanged.
He was given another grinder and 30 days to accept it or get his money back.
My advice to him is pay the extra money and get one from ENCO or J&L

If you want a lathe, better off searching eBay for a used Logan, South
Bend, or Atlas machine.

Harry C.


It seems that the ground is getting a bit thin for small shop sized good
used lathes. Many of the ones which can be found are very worn. The
shutting down of high school and community college metal shops has about
run it's course, which seems to be where many of the good used machines
came from.

Like it or not, good $1000 used American lathes are becoming harder and
harder to find.

John

wrote:
Eric, I have yet to see anything from Harbor Freight that I would
buy,
let alone a product that they are selling for $2,000. They sell only
cheap, Chinese, junk!

If you want a lathe, better off searching eBay for a used Logan,
South
Bend, or Atlas machine.

Harry C.

If there is one thing which I have learned from this newsgroup, it is
that America once dominated the machine tool industry, that China does
now, and that this ****es us Americans off to the extent that we are
now endlessly instructing all questioners to purchase old American
iron, rather than new Chinese iron. What ****es _me_ off, though, is
that everybody seems to think that this _has_ to be the case, because
the Chinese are paying their workers fifty cents per hour, and so this
means that we Americans would not be able to compete. Well, I say that
this is rubbish. The last time I checked, Alabama coke was sixty
dollars per ton. That sixty dollars will melt ten tons of iron. I
myself can purchase powderized fireclay at my local potters supply
house, and they will ship it out of state also. If I remember
correctly, I think that the price is something like ten dollars per
bag. I personally intend to beat the Chinese at their own game. I am
going to duplicate their own lathe, which, of course, is itself a
duplication of a western design, and then I am going to sell it at a
reduced price. I will be applying the principle of the bumblebee. You
see, according to the science of aerodynamics, a bumblebee should not
be able to fly. However, the bumblebee is to stupid to know
aerodynamics, so it flys anyway.

Mike Mandaville
Austin, Texas

MikeMandaville wrote:

..this newsgroup, .. America once dominated the machine tool industry, that China does
now, and that this ****es us Americans off.. we are now.. instructing all questioners to purchase old American
iron, rather than new Chinese iron. What ****es _me_ off..

I believe that one of the great aspects of this newsgroup is that it
helps us navigate the problem:
1) New American or Western European is too expensive
2) Used American may be worn out and hard to get parts
3) Chinese may be junk

The US got it start underbidding the British on manufactured goods in
the 1700s.
Jobs and manufacturing are always moving to a cheaper source.
Making machine tools from cast iron was best done in the US 50 years ago.
As time goes on, that task must pass to Japan, then to Taiwan, then to
China, then to Viet Nam, etc.

I got a used 1967 Clausing and my brother got a new Jet lathe, both the
same size, weight, and price.
My lathe has too much wear, so his is better.
If I had found one not so worn, I could have got the better deal.

If I were to do it again, I would shop the same way: Look at used
American and look at new Asian.
The new Asian lathes are keeping the used American lathe prices in balance.

What John said.

John Horner wrote:

If you want a lathe, better off searching eBay for a used Logan, South
Bend, or Atlas machine.

Harry C.


It seems that the ground is getting a bit thin for small shop sized good
used lathes. Many of the ones which can be found are very worn. The
shutting down of high school and community college metal shops has about
run it's course, which seems to be where many of the good used machines
came from.

Like it or not, good $1000 used American lathes are becoming harder and
harder to find.

John

If I go this route... I am certainly not going to buy without first
seeing the machine; preferably running. Eric

MikeMandaville writes:

You see, according to the science of aerodynamics, a bumblebee should not
be able to fly.

Sez who?

http://tafkac.org/faq2k/science_47.html

On 8 May 2005 11:49:22 -0700, wrote:

Eric, I have yet to see anything from Harbor Freight that I would buy,
let alone a product that they are selling for $2,000. They sell only
cheap, Chinese, junk!

If you want a lathe, better off searching eBay for a used Logan, South
Bend, or Atlas machine.

Harry C.

Thats odd..the pair of ChannelLock water pump pliers I bought there
last week said made in USA. So did the flux core mig wire.

Gunner

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stewart Mill

In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:

MikeMandaville writes:

You see, according to the science of aerodynamics, a bumblebee should not
be able to fly.

Sez who?

http://tafkac.org/faq2k/science_47.html

Website is wrong. The story about the flightless bumblebees is not an
urban legend, or a bit of science-bashing.

My Father, an aeronautical engineer, knew the story first-hand. There
really was a fellow who got his PhD by "proving" that bumblebees cannot
fly, using the best aeronautical theory of the day (the 1930s or 1940s).

The point of the thesis was that the "best aeronautical theory of the
day" didn't work for bumblebees. Not that the bumblebees minded.

Back in the 1940s, severe approximations had to be made, to yield
equations that could be solved by hand (by a room full of people using
mechanical calculating machines). It worked for quite well for
aeroplanes and helicopters, and reasonably well for birds, but not at
all for insects. It's only recently, with the advent of computational
fluid dynamics, that adequate theories of insect flight have emerged.

Joe Gwinn

On Sun, 08 May 2005 11:51:46 -0700, Clark Magnuson
wrote:

I have tools made by Milwaukee, Makita, McCulloch, Bosch, Estwing, and
Mitutoyo.
Those are very good tools.
I saw nothing of that quality in the Kent WA HF store a month ago.
Maybe my eyes were blinded by my disgust for what I DID see, and maybe
the good stuff is locked up.

The one thing no one mentioned is when you find a HF that DOES sell
those named-brand tools.. they are all either reconditioned or factory
seconds.

james, seattle




While we were there, my brother bought a $200 grinder that looks just
like my $242 grinder from ENCO or J&L:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=449
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46727
http://www.jlindustrial.com/catalog/...&id=ISG-12000J

However, the HF grinder shook horribly and had to be exchanged.
He was given another grinder and 30 days to accept it or get his money back.
My advice to him is pay the extra money and get one from ENCO or J&L

On Mon, 09 May 2005 08:15:09 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner
spake:

On 8 May 2005 11:49:22 -0700, wrote:

Eric, I have yet to see anything from Harbor Freight that I would buy,
let alone a product that they are selling for $2,000. They sell only
cheap, Chinese, junk!

If you want a lathe, better off searching eBay for a used Logan, South
Bend, or Atlas machine.

Harry C.

Thats odd..the pair of ChannelLock water pump pliers I bought there
last week said made in USA. So did the flux core mig wire.

I bought a UV filter for my Nikon and the Ebay auction listed it as
28mm UV filter, Digital Concepts JAPAN OPTICS. What they forgot (?) to
mention was that these were made in China. I'd like to have known.
"Japan Optics" is evidently a "model", not a sourcing. grumble

China cuts a loose thread in aluminum. The S+W circular polarizer I
got from another Ebayer today is also quite loose. Y'know, like a lady
of the night after 30 hard years. sigh

But for $10 a pop, it's all usable.


------------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2000...from California.
----------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------

"RainLover" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 08 May 2005 11:51:46 -0700, Clark Magnuson
wrote:

The one thing no one mentioned is when you find a HF that DOES
sell those named-brand tools.. they are all either reconditioned
or factory seconds.


The reason I didn't mention it is because it's not true. Yes, they do sell
reconditioned brand-name tools. No, that is not all they sell. I've bought
some brand-new, not reconditioned, brand-name tools from Harbor Freight.

By the way, the last time I was in HF, I saw an entire hanging aisle display
of Estwing hammers. How many of those do you think were reconditioned?

Look, if some of you guys never want to shop at Harbor Freight, that's fine
by me. But don't spread falsehoods about them.

- Michael

"RainLover" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 08 May 2005 11:51:46 -0700, Clark Magnuson
wrote:

I have tools made by Milwaukee, Makita, McCulloch, Bosch, Estwing,
and
Mitutoyo.
Those are very good tools.
I saw nothing of that quality in the Kent WA HF store a month ago.
Maybe my eyes were blinded by my disgust for what I DID see, and
maybe
the good stuff is locked up.

The one thing no one mentioned is when you find a HF that DOES sell
those named-brand tools.. they are all either reconditioned or factory
seconds.

james, seattle


BULL SH&*. The HF in New Hartford as well as the one in Syracuse and
Albany all sell DeWalt and Makita, Milwaukee and Estwing hammers. Plus
Stanley tools and Many other Name Brand tools as well. And they are NOT
repeat NOT seconds or refurbs.

If you feel so threatened by HF stores selling import items maybe you
should wake up and look around you. Your vehicle is probably an import
(GM,Ford,Dodge, all have plants in Canada or Mexico) Own an 'American
Made" Harley... Better take off all the import parts, Rims, Electronics
and now the engine in the V-Rod (Porche designed and produced the
castings and internals), the forks. Own a TV, there are NONE made in the
US.How about the computer you typed your message on....



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"If it wasn't for Harbor Freight tools, I wouldn't have no tools at all..."

The quality of their stuff has improved dramatically in the last five years,
in my opinion. My approach is to buy it there first, then if it turns out
that I use the tool a lot, I will often upgrade it later. E.g.., I bought
their 1/2" impact wrench, then bought an Ingersoll Rand later on. Likewise,
I started with an HF portable air compressor and then upgraded to a big 220v
Campbell-Hausfeld. And to your point, in each case, I bought both tools at
the HF store...

I really enjoy my compact bender, ring roller, blast cabinet, floor jack,
and horizontal bandsaw. To buy the domestic, name brand equivalents would
have been at least three times the cost. I know there are people out there
who are blessed with tool budgets three times what I can spend, but I would
rather buy steel...

When I win the Lotto I'll buy nothing but the best...but until then, HF has
been my main supplier, EBay has been my second choice, and Home Depot and
Lowes are tied for third...

Just my opinion...

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"RainLover" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 08 May 2005 11:51:46 -0700, Clark Magnuson
wrote:

The one thing no one mentioned is when you find a HF that DOES
sell those named-brand tools.. they are all either reconditioned
or factory seconds.


The reason I didn't mention it is because it's not true. Yes, they do sell
reconditioned brand-name tools. No, that is not all they sell. I've bought
some brand-new, not reconditioned, brand-name tools from Harbor Freight.

By the way, the last time I was in HF, I saw an entire hanging aisle
display of Estwing hammers. How many of those do you think were
reconditioned?

Look, if some of you guys never want to shop at Harbor Freight, that's
fine by me. But don't spread falsehoods about them.

- Michael

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:


MikeMandaville writes:


You see, according to the science of aerodynamics, a bumblebee should not
be able to fly.

Sez who?

http://tafkac.org/faq2k/science_47.html


Website is wrong. The story about the flightless bumblebees is not an
urban legend, or a bit of science-bashing.

My Father, an aeronautical engineer, knew the story first-hand. There
really was a fellow who got his PhD by "proving" that bumblebees cannot
fly, using the best aeronautical theory of the day (the 1930s or 1940s).

The point of the thesis was that the "best aeronautical theory of the
day" didn't work for bumblebees. Not that the bumblebees minded.

Back in the 1940s, severe approximations had to be made, to yield
equations that could be solved by hand (by a room full of people using
mechanical calculating machines). It worked for quite well for
aeroplanes and helicopters, and reasonably well for birds, but not at
all for insects. It's only recently, with the advent of computational
fluid dynamics, that adequate theories of insect flight have emerged.

Joe Gwinn
In the 40's ? - How about the 60's! and early 70's. Not until computers
and calculators were able and willing to go above a slide rule ability.

We always did approximations and had some basic rules that allowed truncation
or adding another variable ...

Martin [ who was in the workplace for several years when he bought a $600 4 banger
with memory, 12 digits and up to 4 of them below the decimal. I did log and trig
by approximation routines. Some of which came out in EDN or Electronics during the time.

Then TI and HP began to make calculators.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

distracted wrote:

Harbor Freight has a 13x40 lathe on sale right now for $2000. Does
anyone here own one? How was the quality? I have heard alot of
negative comments about HF equipment, but I still have to ask what
people's opinion is.
Thanks in advance. Eric

Based on my experience with a HF 12x36 gearhead I bought two years ago, I would
certainly give serious consideration to their 13x40. Of course, I only run mine
about 10 hours per week....

-jc-

Joseph Gwinn writes:

There
really was a fellow who got his PhD by "proving" that bumblebees cannot
fly, using the best aeronautical theory of the day (the 1930s or 1940s).

Who was that? Thesis title?

In the 40's ? - How about the 60's! and early 70's. Not until computers
and calculators were able and willing to go above a slide rule ability.

We always did approximations and had some basic rules that allowed
truncation
or adding another variable ...

Martin [ who was in the workplace for several years when he bought a $600
4 banger
with memory, 12 digits and up to 4 of them below the decimal. I did log
and trig
by approximation routines. Some of which came out in EDN or Electronics
during the time.

Then TI and HP began to make calculators.

Martin



Anyone remember the mechanical calculators made by Singer Sewing Machine
Company. If you divided by zero, the only way to stop them was to unplug
them.

On Tue, 10 May 2005 01:10:46 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Joseph Gwinn writes:

There
really was a fellow who got his PhD by "proving" that bumblebees cannot
fly, using the best aeronautical theory of the day (the 1930s or 1940s).

Who was that? Thesis title?


Insect aerodynamics: Flipping and flapping for flight forces,
presented by Michael Dickinson, of the Dickinson Lab, in the
Department of Integrative Biology at UC Berkeley.
Abstract: An engineer once proved that a bumblebee cannot fly. The
difficulty for this anonymous individual (and many other researchers
throughout the past century) was that the application of conventional
aerodynamic theory to the wing motion of insects predicted forces that
are much too low to keep an animal aloft. The failure of conventional
steady-state theory has fueled the search for unsteady mechanisms that
might account for the elevated performance of insect wings. In order
to facilitate this search, we constructed a large dynamically scaled
model of a flapping fruit fly. Direct measurement of the forces and
flows produced by a flapping wing suggests that the aerodynamics of
insect flight may be explained by the interaction of three distinct,
yet interactive mechanisms: delayed stall, rotational circulation, and
wake capture. While delayed stall is a translational mechanism,
rotational circulation and wake capture depend explicitly on the rapid
rotation of the wings during stroke reversal. The regulation of
rotational phase provides insects with a potent means of controlling
flight forces during steering maneuvers. A general theory of insect
aerodynamics that incorporates both translational and rotational
mechanisms shows promise in explaining the force generating mechanisms
of many species as well providing insight for the design of biomimetic
robots"



"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stewart Mill

On Mon, 9 May 2005 17:36:51 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:


"RainLover" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 08 May 2005 11:51:46 -0700, Clark Magnuson
wrote:

I have tools made by Milwaukee, Makita, McCulloch, Bosch, Estwing,
and
Mitutoyo.
Those are very good tools.
I saw nothing of that quality in the Kent WA HF store a month ago.
Maybe my eyes were blinded by my disgust for what I DID see, and
maybe
the good stuff is locked up.

The one thing no one mentioned is when you find a HF that DOES sell
those named-brand tools.. they are all either reconditioned or factory
seconds.

james, seattle


BULL SH&*. The HF in New Hartford as well as the one in Syracuse and
Albany all sell DeWalt and Makita, Milwaukee and Estwing hammers. Plus
Stanley tools and Many other Name Brand tools as well. And they are NOT
repeat NOT seconds or refurbs.

If you feel so threatened by HF stores selling import items maybe you
should wake up and look around you. Your vehicle is probably an import
(GM,Ford,Dodge, all have plants in Canada or Mexico) Own an 'American
Made" Harley... Better take off all the import parts, Rims, Electronics
and now the engine in the V-Rod (Porche designed and produced the
castings and internals), the forks. Own a TV, there are NONE made in the
US.How about the computer you typed your message on....

I have NOTHING against 'foreign made' products, personally, stuff made
in the USA is either WAY too expensive, or not better than the Chinese
stuff, and as far as where my money ends up.... I agree, Fords are
made out the U.S. and Hondas IN COUNTRY..

I buy the best tool I can afford for the price. I think HF's biggest
problem is one of image... they blend the quality products in amongst
the CRAP at a ratio I'd put at 20% quality to 80% crap.

My point about HF is that in the Two local stores in the Seattle area,
I've NEVER seen a name-brand tool that isn't 'reconditioned' from the
factory.... NEVER. Sometimes it's hard to find the disclaimer... but
it's always there someplace. If your local store carries BRAND NEW,
PERFECT CONDITION, NEVER-USED electric handtools at a better price
than other stores, I'd love to come by and shop there... :-)

James, Seattle

Gunner writes:

Joseph Gwinn writes:

There
really was a fellow who got his PhD by "proving" that bumblebees
cannot fly, using the best aeronautical theory of the day (the 1930s
or 1940s).

Who was that? Thesis title?

Insect aerodynamics: Flipping and flapping for flight forces,
presented by Michael Dickinson, of the Dickinson Lab, in the
Department of Integrative Biology at UC Berkeley.
Abstract: An engineer once proved that a bumblebee cannot fly. The
difficulty for this anonymous individual ...

Eh? That's just a talk citing the legend (and by a biologist sniffing at an
engineer, no less).

I buy the best tool I can afford for the price. I think HF's biggest
problem is one of image... they blend the quality products in amongst
the CRAP at a ratio I'd put at 20% quality to 80% crap.



LOL, I think HF's biggest problem is that their business is growing like
gangbusters as more and more individuals and businesses find that good
enough at a super cheap price often makes more sense than really great
at a high price.

John

Tom Miller wrote:

In the 40's ? - How about the 60's! and early 70's. Not until computers
and calculators were able and willing to go above a slide rule ability.

We always did approximations and had some basic rules that allowed

truncation

or adding another variable ...

Martin [ who was in the workplace for several years when he bought a $600

4 banger

with memory, 12 digits and up to 4 of them below the decimal. I did log

and trig

by approximation routines. Some of which came out in EDN or Electronics

during the time.

Then TI and HP began to make calculators.

Martin




Anyone remember the mechanical calculators made by Singer Sewing Machine
Company. If you divided by zero, the only way to stop them was to unplug
them.

Yes. Singer/Friden. I think they
were made in San Leandro, California.

I bought a six pound steel anvil at Harbor Freight just yesterday. Of,
course, the large letters on the box read "made in China". These same
words appear in large raised letters on the anvil itself. I'm going to
use it as a glue press, to patch the seat of my pants!

:-)

Mike Mandaville

Tom Miller wrote:

In the 40's ? - How about the 60's! and early 70's. Not until computers
and calculators were able and willing to go above a slide rule ability.

We always did approximations and had some basic rules that allowed

truncation

or adding another variable ...

Martin [ who was in the workplace for several years when he bought a $600

4 banger

with memory, 12 digits and up to 4 of them below the decimal. I did log

and trig

by approximation routines. Some of which came out in EDN or Electronics

during the time.

Then TI and HP began to make calculators.

Martin




Anyone remember the mechanical calculators made by Singer Sewing Machine
Company. If you divided by zero, the only way to stop them was to unplug
them.


The Engineers - (Title ? -- did buildings, roads, Water tanks, everything) had some when
I was in high school. We spent a day there on job interviews - found it to be a ugh job
where 'blue prints' and the brown Van Dykes were state of the art. That end of the room
was foreign smelling to most of us young people. I decided to become the news photographer
when the pro was busy or off.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

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