Many years ago, I was told that a small (or large?) gasoline engine will run
fine on kerosene. However, it will only run after it's warmed up, needs
gasoline to get it started and running.

The application for this is remote pump houses, and fire pumps in remote
locations. The engine has a valve system for the fuels. A couple galons of
gasoline are kept on hand, and replaced every couple months. A larger tank
of kerosene is also present.

The operation plan is that if the pump is needed, the operator comes in.
Sets the valve to "gasoline" and pours in a galon into the smaller gas tank.
Runs the engine to get it started, and warm, and then changes the valve to
kerosene. When shutting down, it is then necessary to either run the engine
dry, or change it back to gasoline.

Now, to make this personal. I have a Coleman generator at home, with a 5 HP
Briggs and Stratton engine. Supposing for the sake of discussion, we have an
extended duration power cut. Has anyone personally had experience with this?
Is this a correct description?

I've got maybe 5 galons of gasoline at home, and about 20 galons of
kerosene. It would be very nice to use a quart of gas to get my generator
warmed up, and then pour kerosene into the tank. But I'd sure feel more
reassured if someone else out there had done this, and knows that it it will
work.

Would have to run the generator dry, when shutting down. So as to allow to
restart the next time on a quart or so of gasoline.

I appreciate any ideas, advice, or thoughts.



--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

A few years ago someone came out with low-volatile gasoline. The idea was
that you stick a gallon in your car trunk, and if you ever run out of gas,
you have the spare gallon. But they removed the most volatile components,
so it would not explode in a collision. It would not start a cold motor,
but would run in a warm motor. It cost 10X the price of gasoline.

If you could just use kerosene for that, then the product would have been
unnecessary. (but since I haven't seen it in a few years, maybe it was
unnecessary.)

Back in the 50s - we had a farm - Dad was a coal miner - but he tried to
run a 10 acre farm on the side. One of the ways he used to "stretch" his
money was to run a mixture of 50% kerosene and 50% gasoline. At the time
gasoline was about 17 cents a gallon and kerosene was 5 cents a gallon -
at the time that was a big savings. The tractor would jug along just
fine on the mixture - it was a Ford Cub with the spread out front
wheels. I used to love to "drive" it on the seat with him.

Today - since home heating oil is "virtually" kerosene - one may be
considering running a mixture of fuel oil and gasoline in their car to
"save" money because fuel oil does not have a road tax on it. Just
remember the government colors fuels for just that reason. I doubt if
one would get caught - but it is a risk.

During the 1978 "energy crisis" - I had a friend that bought a VW diesel
- and used to run it on home heating oil which was half the price
because of no road tax. He used to pull the car into the basement and
gravity feed the fuel from the big red oil tank by the furnace. He would
have gotten away with it if he didn't brag about it everyday in the
faculty room - and some disgruntled soul turned him in. He got a big
fine - plus a lot of bad publicity in the newspapers.

PS - one time I owned a diesel Cadillac - never a diesel VW ;-)

Harry

"Harry Everhart" wrote

During the 1978 "energy crisis" - I had a friend that bought a VW diesel
- and used to run it on home heating oil which was half the price
because of no road tax. He used to pull the car into the basement and
gravity feed the fuel from the big red oil tank by the furnace. He would
have gotten away with it if he didn't brag about it everyday in the
faculty room - and some disgruntled soul turned him in. He got a big
fine - plus a lot of bad publicity in the newspapers.

#2 Heating oil and diesel are basically the same thing. A lot of people were
doing what you described and that is why they started putting the red dye in
the heating oil (and kerosene). Supposedly if the cops pull over a trucker
and they do an inspection, any dyed fuel in the tank will cost them $10,000
in fines.

"Harry Everhart" wrote in message

Today - since home heating oil is "virtually" kerosene - one may be
considering running a mixture of fuel oil and gasoline in their car to
"save" money because fuel oil does not have a road tax on it. Just
remember the government colors fuels for just that reason. I doubt if
one would get caught - but it is a risk.


With the the fuel filters and precision fuel injcetors, coupled with the
computer tuning, I wonder if it would run at all. Years ago, I remember
running a 1950 Chevy six with about half and half after a trucker filled the
wrong tank.



PS - one time I owned a diesel Cadillac - never a diesel VW ;-)

I think the VW was probably faster . That GM diesel was a god awful engine.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
I think the VW was probably faster . That GM diesel was a god awful engine.
No wonder I bought it so cheaply. :-)
It did cruise well - it was one of the later ones. I set a personal best
time record from PA to FL in it with only one stop for fuel. Don't ask.
Harry
PS - Wife loved it but we never drove with the windows down.

Harry Everhart wrote:

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
I think the VW was probably faster . That GM diesel was a god awful engine.
No wonder I bought it so cheaply. :-)
It did cruise well - it was one of the later ones. I set a personal best
time record from PA to FL in it with only one stop for fuel. Don't ask.
Harry
PS - Wife loved it but we never drove with the windows down.

Initially those had terrible failure rates...they were simply the
large-block gas engine w/ higher compression heads--head failures and
cooling problems were rampant.

They made modifications over the years and eventually they were
servicable if not great...as you note, lack of convenient auto diesel
pumps and noise/cold-starting/odor/initial cost made them a no-go w/ the
public. Of course, now, w/ diesel as high or higher than gasoline,
there's little incentive, either.

One of the major rules of avoiding laws. Do it very, very quietly.

Yes, from 17 to 5 cents -- serious savings.

I've heard kerosene runs just fine in diesel vehicles. Also #2 home heating
oil runs fine. But, different taxes, and different color of fuel.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
Back in the 50s - we had a farm - Dad was a coal miner - but he tried to
run a 10 acre farm on the side. One of the ways he used to "stretch" his
money was to run a mixture of 50% kerosene and 50% gasoline. At the time
gasoline was about 17 cents a gallon and kerosene was 5 cents a gallon -
at the time that was a big savings. The tractor would jug along just
fine on the mixture - it was a Ford Cub with the spread out front
wheels. I used to love to "drive" it on the seat with him.

Today - since home heating oil is "virtually" kerosene - one may be
considering running a mixture of fuel oil and gasoline in their car to
"save" money because fuel oil does not have a road tax on it. Just
remember the government colors fuels for just that reason. I doubt if
one would get caught - but it is a risk.

During the 1978 "energy crisis" - I had a friend that bought a VW diesel
- and used to run it on home heating oil which was half the price
because of no road tax. He used to pull the car into the basement and
gravity feed the fuel from the big red oil tank by the furnace. He would
have gotten away with it if he didn't brag about it everyday in the
faculty room - and some disgruntled soul turned him in. He got a big
fine - plus a lot of bad publicity in the newspapers.

PS - one time I owned a diesel Cadillac - never a diesel VW ;-)

Harry

I've seen that in stores. I wonder if a galon of kerosene would do the same
job. Or if it's possible to run a gasoline auto or truck engine on kero.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"toller" wrote in message
...
A few years ago someone came out with low-volatile gasoline. The idea was
that you stick a gallon in your car trunk, and if you ever run out of gas,
you have the spare gallon. But they removed the most volatile components,
so it would not explode in a collision. It would not start a cold motor,
but would run in a warm motor. It cost 10X the price of gasoline.

If you could just use kerosene for that, then the product would have been
unnecessary. (but since I haven't seen it in a few years, maybe it was
unnecessary.)

NO


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I've seen that in stores. I wonder if a galon of kerosene would do the
same
job. Or if it's possible to run a gasoline auto or truck engine on kero.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"toller" wrote in message
...
A few years ago someone came out with low-volatile gasoline. The idea was
that you stick a gallon in your car trunk, and if you ever run out of gas,
you have the spare gallon. But they removed the most volatile components,
so it would not explode in a collision. It would not start a cold motor,
but would run in a warm motor. It cost 10X the price of gasoline.

If you could just use kerosene for that, then the product would have been
unnecessary. (but since I haven't seen it in a few years, maybe it was
unnecessary.)

Toller,

We're drifting off topic a bit, but for those who want to have a moderately
safe gallon of gas in the truck for emergencies, I've sometimes carried
one of those sealed 1 gallon containers of Coleman white gas for the
Coleman lanterns. It is more expensive that gasoline at the pump,
but still far less than 10x.

It is absolutely spill proof since it has that metal seal on top which must
be pierced before you can pour out the product. I'm sure that it has been
pre-treated with a gasoline stabilizing compound. I do not know about the
volatile components - it could still be explosive if/when the container is
punctured in an accident. When I've carried it, I have stored it an area
of the trunk which I consider to be the safest area. I also protect it as
much as possible from moving about.

Note: I've carried these gallon cans but never actually needed to use
one. But I have been assured by my chemist friends that this white
gas works fine in an auto and that a modern computer-controlled car
should start on this gas.

Gideon

Actually, I posted the question on another group. On the Coleman web site
(was it?) we find out that Coleman fuel will NOT run in gasoline engines.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Gideon" wrote in message
...
Toller,

We're drifting off topic a bit, but for those who want to have a moderately
safe gallon of gas in the truck for emergencies, I've sometimes carried
one of those sealed 1 gallon containers of Coleman white gas for the
Coleman lanterns. It is more expensive that gasoline at the pump,
but still far less than 10x.

It is absolutely spill proof since it has that metal seal on top which must
be pierced before you can pour out the product. I'm sure that it has been
pre-treated with a gasoline stabilizing compound. I do not know about the
volatile components - it could still be explosive if/when the container is
punctured in an accident. When I've carried it, I have stored it an area
of the trunk which I consider to be the safest area. I also protect it as
much as possible from moving about.

Note: I've carried these gallon cans but never actually needed to use
one. But I have been assured by my chemist friends that this white
gas works fine in an auto and that a modern computer-controlled car
should start on this gas.

Gideon

From: "Halcitron"
Subject: White Gas, Coleman Fuel, and Unleaded Gasoline
Date: Sunday, April 27, 2003 4:31 PM


White Gas, Coleman Fuel, and Unleaded Gasoline
White Gas, Coleman Fuel, and Unleaded Gasoline
© 1995 E. Michael Smith



These fuels are all related in that all of them are of similar boiling
points
and are distilled from petroleum from the same 'cut'. Gasoline is more
broad
in the 'cut' and has a wider range of materials in it. It also has
additives
that make it store less well. Coleman Fuel is a particular brand of the
more
generic product, white gas. White gas is gasoline without the additives in
it
yet, and may or may not be a broad cut like regular gasoline.

They all have some very nice properties as a storage fuel. They also have
some
profound differences.

Coleman fuel doesn't age and varnish up the way gasoline does. White gas is
not as clean a cut as Coleman Fuel, but I've not done long duration storage
tests on it. It might, or might not, store as well. I've used several year
old Coleman fuel with no problems at all. Gasoline more than 1 year old is
marginal. Store it for a couple of years and it will smell of varnish and
have
odd deposits on the bottom of the can.

All of these fuels are of a moderately high vapor pressure, so they can puff
up
cans in a hot trunk. Gasoline does this more, since it has more 'light'
hydrocarbons. In some cold climates, these can even include Butane! You
will
need a fuel bottle that can take some internal pressure if you intend to
store
gasoline or white gas fuels in a hot car trunk. I've done a multi year test
with Coleman Fuel in a Sigg fuel bottle in a Honda. It worked well. I've
not
tested Unleaded in similar circumstances. If you do store gasoline, use
summer gas. It has a higher boiling point and less light hydrocarbons.

These fuels burn very cleanly. They are easy to light. They evaporate
readily, so spills are to some extent self policing. The fuels are cheap,
and
readily available. Unleaded gasoline is about the most commonly available
fuel
you could want. Stoves and lanterns to use them are available from many
manufacturers just about everywhere.

So why not just use gasolines or Coleman Fuel as your camping and
preparedness
fuel of choice?

Why not, indeed. It would be a reasonable choice for most people. The
stoves
and lanterns do require pumping, which some folks find a bother. They must
be
refilled with a liquid, so you have a chance for leakage and spillage.
Getting
them lit when cold can take a while and does require a bit of a knack,
especially for the lanterns. (You wait and wait and just about when fear
has
led you to believe that the lantern will blow up any minute, the gas finally
reaches the mantle and lights, often with a startling POOF!) For folks with
no
or little mechanical aptitude, Propane or Butane are better choices.

If you have low availability of unleaded gasoline (such as someone living in
a
country where leaded gasoline still is the most common) or want a safer fuel
in
storage and don't mind the esthetics of use quite as much, then Kerosene
is
a good choice.

For most folks, though, Unleaded or White Gas is the fuel of choice, and
Coleman Fuel is just about the best brand.

Once per year, about August, I cycle my stored gasoline. The old stuff gets
dumped into the car (easy with a gas car, a bit trickier but still doable
with
a Diesel car). Then I buy a new fresh 5 gallons worth for the next
year.
The gas, being above the 2 gallon limit imposed by my home insurance for
garage
storage, goes into a detached shed away from the house. Check your
insurance
limits for flammables restrictions.

On a general use basis, I use Coleman Fuel. When fishing or camping, the
clean
burning of it, the lower smell, and the general convenience of a fuel that
treats my appliances well is worth the added cost to me. In an emergency,
I'd
use my stored gasoline. There are an increasing number of stoves these
days
that can burn your choice of {unleaded, white gas, kerosene}, so the issue
of
which fuel to choose for storage is a bit less coupled to stove choice.

If you have a gasoline car, I'd opt for Unleaded Gasoline and a 'Dual Fuel'
stove/lantern that uses unleaded and improve the storage system by putting
the
fuel in an insulated container like an ice chest (sans ice). The goal is to
cut the peak temperature experienced by the stored fuel. The insulation of
the
ice chest would help do this.

Coleman fuel is my emergency stove and lantern storage fuel of choice for
all
things other than my present car, where I use Kerosene, since I can run my
Diesel on that in a pinch. For the average person driving a gasoline car,
I'd
use Unleaded gasoline in a Sigg or MSR type fuel bottle and appliances made
for
white gas/Coleman Fuel/Unleaded.

Index to Expedient Camping (Crisis Kit) topics.


Directory of Regions served. Copyright © 1995 NetSurf, Inc. All Rights
Reserved.



caveat lector

Halcitron
Check your six and know when to duck.
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.

Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.

That's the best answer I've gotten to the question. Seeing as how it's
off a web site, I think I'll send that on to a few more groups.

Save me burning out the valves, thank you.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:59 PM



Chris,
Here is a "cut and paste" that should answer your question.
- -------------
Coleman fuel is basically petroleum naphtha with a bit of rust
inhibitor. It has an octane rating of 50 to 55 and none of the
additives found in gasoline. It has a lighter molecular weight than
gasoline, kerosene and diesel fuel and cannot be used as a substitute
for any of those fuels. The flammability of Coleman Fuel is
comparable to gasoline but it cannot be used in gasoline engines. It
will burn out the valves.
- -------------------
I got the info at:
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/faq/f...sp?question=18

Since it is naphtha, you should be able to buy it in bulk cheaper
than you can from Coleman, but it won't have any of the rust
inhibitors in it. Naphtha is also known as "lighter fluid". Back
when I used to smoke, I bought the naphtha (benzene?) by the gallon
for about the same price as a large squeeze bottle of Robinson went
for.


- -----------
In a message dated 11/13/2004 3:50:12 PM Central Standard Time,
writes:
Does Coleman fuel have a shelf life like auto gasoline?

Can I safely use Coleman fuel in, for example, my gasoline power
generator? Would be nice to burn coleman fuel in my genny if I ran
out
of gas. And seeing as how gasoline doesn't store well.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Many years ago, I was told that a small (or large?) gasoline engine
will run fine on kerosene. However, it will only run after it's
warmed up, needs gasoline to get it started and running.

The application for this is remote pump houses, and fire pumps in
remote locations. The engine has a valve system for the fuels. A
couple galons of gasoline are kept on hand, and replaced every couple
months. A larger tank of kerosene is also present.

The operation plan is that if the pump is needed, the operator comes
in. Sets the valve to "gasoline" and pours in a galon into the
smaller gas tank. Runs the engine to get it started, and warm, and
then changes the valve to kerosene. When shutting down, it is then
necessary to either run the engine dry, or change it back to gasoline.

Now, to make this personal. I have a Coleman generator at home, with
a 5 HP Briggs and Stratton engine. Supposing for the sake of
discussion, we have an extended duration power cut. Has anyone
personally had experience with this? Is this a correct description?

I've got maybe 5 galons of gasoline at home, and about 20 galons of
kerosene. It would be very nice to use a quart of gas to get my
generator warmed up, and then pour kerosene into the tank. But I'd
sure feel more reassured if someone else out there had done this, and
knows that it it will work.

Would have to run the generator dry, when shutting down. So as to
allow to restart the next time on a quart or so of gasoline.

I appreciate any ideas, advice, or thoughts.

Are you sure that was a gasoline engine they were talking about. Diesel
and kerosene are very close. Gasoline is different.

At best, I would expect that it would do the engine no good, if it
worked. I am sure it would really screw up a modern automotive gasoline
engine.

It might have been a better idea to have bought a diesel engine
generator tot start with.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Many years ago, I was told that a small (or large?) gasoline engine
will run fine on kerosene. However, it will only run after it's
warmed up, needs gasoline to get it started and running.

The application for this is remote pump houses, and fire pumps in
remote locations. The engine has a valve system for the fuels. A
couple galons of gasoline are kept on hand, and replaced every couple
months. A larger tank of kerosene is also present.

The operation plan is that if the pump is needed, the operator comes
in. Sets the valve to "gasoline" and pours in a galon into the
smaller gas tank. Runs the engine to get it started, and warm, and
then changes the valve to kerosene. When shutting down, it is then
necessary to either run the engine dry, or change it back to gasoline.

Now, to make this personal. I have a Coleman generator at home, with
a 5 HP Briggs and Stratton engine. Supposing for the sake of
discussion, we have an extended duration power cut. Has anyone
personally had experience with this? Is this a correct description?

I've got maybe 5 galons of gasoline at home, and about 20 galons of
kerosene. It would be very nice to use a quart of gas to get my
generator warmed up, and then pour kerosene into the tank. But I'd
sure feel more reassured if someone else out there had done this, and
knows that it it will work.

Would have to run the generator dry, when shutting down. So as to
allow to restart the next time on a quart or so of gasoline.

I appreciate any ideas, advice, or thoughts.

Are you sure that was a gasoline engine they were talking about.
Diesel and kerosene are very close. Gasoline is different.

At best, I would expect that it would do the engine no good, if it
worked. I am sure it would really screw up a modern automotive gasoline
engine.

It might have been a better idea to have bought a diesel engine
generator tot start with.



Yes, kerosene is basically super refined diesel fuel or heating oil. I
can't imagine a gasoline engine could even combust it being it has such a
lower flash point. I know you can easily run a diesel engine on
kerosene..Been there done that.. Had an Oldsmobile Ninety Eight diesel and
ran out of fuel backing out of the driveway. Ran to the shed, got my five
gallon can of Kerosene and poured it in. Started right up and ran fine all
the way to the fuel station. Don't think putting diesel in a gas engine
would hurt the engine, other than quickly fouling the plugs if you could
even get it to fire, but doing the opposite, putting gas in a diesel engine
can cause damage quick...
John

In article ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Are you sure that was a gasoline engine they were talking about. Diesel
and kerosene are very close. Gasoline is different.

At best, I would expect that it would do the engine no good, if it
worked. I am sure it would really screw up a modern automotive gasoline
engine.

It might have been a better idea to have bought a diesel engine
generator tot start with.

Joe -
This was done in the 30s - 40s - 50s to save money. Yeah - the gasoline
engine did not run the greatest on a mixture of kerosene/gasoline but it
ran well enough to do the work. Times were tough and money was tight.
You made do with whatever worked. We ran a Ford Cub Tractor on the
mixture for 10 years - by the way - it was a very used tractor to start
with :-)
We also had a gasoline clothes washer on the back porch that ran on the
same mixture. It was a two cylinder opposed engine - no carb - just a
reeded dial that mixed the air and fuel. You twisted it open for more
air - twisted it closed to stop it. The washe has a pedal similar to a
motorcycle to start it. That was a sight seeing my 200 pound Mom
"dancing" up and down on that starter pedal every Monday morning.
Harry

Harry Everhart wrote:
In article ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

Are you sure that was a gasoline engine they were talking about. Diesel
and kerosene are very close. Gasoline is different.

At best, I would expect that it would do the engine no good, if it
worked. I am sure it would really screw up a modern automotive gasoline
engine.

It might have been a better idea to have bought a diesel engine
generator tot start with.


Joe -
This was done in the 30s - 40s - 50s to save money. Yeah - the gasoline
engine did not run the greatest on a mixture of kerosene/gasoline but it
ran well enough to do the work. Times were tough and money was tight.
You made do with whatever worked. We ran a Ford Cub Tractor on the
mixture for 10 years - by the way - it was a very used tractor to start
with :-)



Yes I've seen small single cylinder engines used for irrigation pumps
and similar which had dual compartment fuel tanks. A large section for
kero and a small one for gasoline. There was a valve you could turn to
switch from one to the other, and you had to remember to switch it back
to gas for a while before stopping it so there was gas, not kero in the
carb bowl for the next start.

Kero run farm tractors were quite common, again with gasoline used for
starting.

I strongly doubt that today's sophisticated engines and fuel systems
could take that kind of treatment without serious modifications.

Back during WWII I remember reading an article in either Popular
Mechinics or Mechanix Illustrated showing how to add No.2 fuel oil
burning capability to an ordinary car. IIRC in addition to needing two
fuel tanks, they had you wrap a bunch of copper tubing around the
exhaust manifold to deliver the fuel oil to the carb heated up so it
would "work better".

Gas was rationed during that war. I remember my dad had an "A" sticker
on his windshield which was the lowest priority and entitled him to buy
only 3 or 4 gallons of gasoline a week. (Actually it was RUBBER that was
the big problem, the US had pretty good supplies of oil, but at the time
the Japanese declared war we were getting over 95% of our rubber from
Japan, and synthetics weren't really on line yet. So, rationing gas
saved rubber.)




We also had a gasoline clothes washer on the back porch that ran on the
same mixture. It was a two cylinder opposed engine - no carb - just a
reeded dial that mixed the air and fuel. You twisted it open for more
air - twisted it closed to stop it. The washe has a pedal similar to a
motorcycle to start it. That was a sight seeing my 200 pound Mom
"dancing" up and down on that starter pedal every Monday morning.
Harry

I've still got a spark plug from one of those beasts in my box of "fun
junk" It comes apart for cleaning. The name "Maytag" is printed on the
other side of the insulator, you can just see the ending "g" in Maytag
to the left of the "CHAM" in the right hand photo:

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/plug.jpg

Thanks for the mammaries,

Jeff



--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

In article ,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:
I've still got a spark plug from one of those beasts in my box of "fun
junk" It comes apart for cleaning. The name "Maytag" is printed on the
other side of the insulator, you can just see the ending "g" in Maytag
to the left of the "CHAM" in the right hand photo:
http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/plug.jpg
Thanks for the mammaries,
Jeff

Jeff -
Thanks for the pix of the Maytag spark plug. That was it! I remember the
whole washing machine was made of cast parts - maybe not iron - but
something cast.
Years later in the 60s - I made a "buggie" like a soap box racer with
that engine in it. We hooked a belt to it and it barely powered the car
- maybe 2 mph tops - you could walk faster than that. But I do remember
the police coming up to "pull us over" and tell us we couldn't operate a
motor powered vehicle without a license. Boy - times have changed. Even
though it only went maybe two miles per hour - I was the envy of the
neighborhood for a week. I guess I got "street cred" for being stopped
by the cops.
Harry

Harry Everhart wrote:
In article ,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:

I've still got a spark plug from one of those beasts in my box of "fun
junk" It comes apart for cleaning. The name "Maytag" is printed on the
other side of the insulator, you can just see the ending "g" in Maytag
to the left of the "CHAM" in the right hand photo:
http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/plug.jpg
Thanks for the mammaries,
Jeff


Jeff -
Thanks for the pix of the Maytag spark plug. That was it! I remember the
whole washing machine was made of cast parts - maybe not iron - but
something cast.
Years later in the 60s - I made a "buggie" like a soap box racer with
that engine in it. We hooked a belt to it and it barely powered the car
- maybe 2 mph tops - you could walk faster than that. But I do remember
the police coming up to "pull us over" and tell us we couldn't operate a
motor powered vehicle without a license. Boy - times have changed. Even
though it only went maybe two miles per hour - I was the envy of the
neighborhood for a week. I guess I got "street cred" for being stopped
by the cops.
Harry

Did your family's washing machine also have that rolling mill like water
squeezer outer thingus on top which gave birth to the expression, "I got
my tit in a wringer"...?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 12:46:14 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

Harry Everhart wrote:
In article ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

Are you sure that was a gasoline engine they were talking about. Diesel
and kerosene are very close. Gasoline is different.

At best, I would expect that it would do the engine no good, if it
worked. I am sure it would really screw up a modern automotive gasoline
engine.

It might have been a better idea to have bought a diesel engine
generator tot start with.


Joe -
This was done in the 30s - 40s - 50s to save money. Yeah - the gasoline
engine did not run the greatest on a mixture of kerosene/gasoline but it
ran well enough to do the work. Times were tough and money was tight.
You made do with whatever worked. We ran a Ford Cub Tractor on the
mixture for 10 years - by the way - it was a very used tractor to start
with :-)



Yes I've seen small single cylinder engines used for irrigation pumps
and similar which had dual compartment fuel tanks. A large section for
kero and a small one for gasoline. There was a valve you could turn to
switch from one to the other, and you had to remember to switch it back
to gas for a while before stopping it so there was gas, not kero in the
carb bowl for the next start.

Kero run farm tractors were quite common, again with gasoline used for
starting.

I strongly doubt that today's sophisticated engines and fuel systems
could take that kind of treatment without serious modifications.

Back during WWII I remember reading an article in either Popular
Mechinics or Mechanix Illustrated showing how to add No.2 fuel oil
burning capability to an ordinary car. IIRC in addition to needing two
fuel tanks, they had you wrap a bunch of copper tubing around the
exhaust manifold to deliver the fuel oil to the carb heated up so it
would "work better".

Gas was rationed during that war. I remember my dad had an "A" sticker
on his windshield which was the lowest priority and entitled him to buy
only 3 or 4 gallons of gasoline a week. (Actually it was RUBBER that was
the big problem, the US had pretty good supplies of oil, but at the time
the Japanese declared war we were getting over 95% of our rubber from
Japan, and synthetics weren't really on line yet. So, rationing gas
saved rubber.)




We also had a gasoline clothes washer on the back porch that ran on the
same mixture. It was a two cylinder opposed engine - no carb - just a
reeded dial that mixed the air and fuel. You twisted it open for more
air - twisted it closed to stop it. The washe has a pedal similar to a
motorcycle to start it. That was a sight seeing my 200 pound Mom
"dancing" up and down on that starter pedal every Monday morning.
Harry

I've still got a spark plug from one of those beasts in my box of "fun
junk" It comes apart for cleaning. The name "Maytag" is printed on the
other side of the insulator, you can just see the ending "g" in Maytag
to the left of the "CHAM" in the right hand photo:

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/plug.jpg

Thanks for the mammaries,

Jeff
You'll probably like this link as well.. Look half way down the page
for the washing machine..
http://galthistory.org/gasengine/2003.htm
Chuck

Chuck wrote:
http://galthistory.org/gasengine/2003.htm
Thanks Chuck!
The gray washing machine behind the green washing machine was ours. I do
remember both of them though.
Pictures like that jog the memory so much. Wow.
Don't get me wrong - things are so much better now - cars - houses - TVs
- appliances - medications - schools - planes - clothes - you name it.
But your past is fleeting - gone forever - it is nice for just a taste
of it. :-)
In our case - we had to fill the washing machine with pots of water that
we hand pumped from the well and put on the stove. Then you would wash
the clothes - then run them thru the wringer by hand - then fill with
cold water from the pump again - then rinse the clothes - then run them
thru the ringer - then hang them on the line - then iron them because
they were really wrinkled.
Harry

According to Joseph Meehan :
Are you sure that was a gasoline engine they were talking about. Diesel
and kerosene are very close. Gasoline is different.

gasoline, kerosene and diesel are _almost_ exactly the same thing.

Each is a mixture of varying weight hydrocarbons, more or less directly
off a fractionating tower. The only difference is that the average molecular
weight of the hydrocarbons is lowest in gasoline, higher in kerosene, and
highest in diesel.

[In a standard fractionating tower, there's usually "taps" off
for LPG, butane, light and heavy gasoline, light and heavy kerosene,
light and heavy diesel, and then various kinds of asphalt. You make
various grades of gasoline primarily by varying the light/heavy ratio.
Similarly summer versus winter weight diesel etc]

Conceptually, there's no reason a gasoline engine couldn't run off
diesel. In practise, gasoline engines are pretty finely tuned, and
something thicker than gasoline will throw it off, perhaps too far
off to operate properly.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

One thing for sure you will carbon up everything. A carboned piston,
head and valves will ruin a motors power. So get ready to dissasemble it
for cleaning. Overall a dumb idea.

My late father farmed in England and had many tractors that were
designed to start on gasoline, then switch over to TVO (="Tractor
Vaporising Oil" = kerosene) once they warmed up. However, IMO an engine
would have to be designed to run primarily on kerosene: if its viscosity
is different from that of gasoline, the carburetor would need
different-size jets; and what about the air-fuel proportions?

(I even recall an International Harvester TD9 tracklayer that started on
gasoline, then switched over to diesel!)

Perce


On 03/08/05 09:09 am Stormin Mormon tossed the following ingredients
into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Many years ago, I was told that a small (or large?) gasoline engine will run
fine on kerosene. However, it will only run after it's warmed up, needs
gasoline to get it started and running.

The application for this is remote pump houses, and fire pumps in remote
locations. The engine has a valve system for the fuels. A couple galons of
gasoline are kept on hand, and replaced every couple months. A larger tank
of kerosene is also present.

The operation plan is that if the pump is needed, the operator comes in.
Sets the valve to "gasoline" and pours in a galon into the smaller gas tank.
Runs the engine to get it started, and warm, and then changes the valve to
kerosene. When shutting down, it is then necessary to either run the engine
dry, or change it back to gasoline.

Now, to make this personal. I have a Coleman generator at home, with a 5 HP
Briggs and Stratton engine. Supposing for the sake of discussion, we have an
extended duration power cut. Has anyone personally had experience with this?
Is this a correct description?

I've got maybe 5 galons of gasoline at home, and about 20 galons of
kerosene. It would be very nice to use a quart of gas to get my generator
warmed up, and then pour kerosene into the tank. But I'd sure feel more
reassured if someone else out there had done this, and knows that it it will
work.

Would have to run the generator dry, when shutting down. So as to allow to
restart the next time on a quart or so of gasoline.

I appreciate any ideas, advice, or thoughts.

Two requirements for running satisfactorily on kerosene are missing on your
engine. Compression ratio must be much lower; I do not recall exactly what
ratios are used but I think about 4 or 5 to 1. A lot of intake manifold heat
or a separate "vaporizer" to get the kerosene vapor hot enough to ignite
readily. My wife mistakenly put kerosene in the tank of a hot lawnmower. The
engine started but knocked severely with lots of white smoke from the
exhaust.
Don Young
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
.. .
Many years ago, I was told that a small (or large?) gasoline engine will
run
fine on kerosene. However, it will only run after it's warmed up, needs
gasoline to get it started and running.

The application for this is remote pump houses, and fire pumps in remote
locations. The engine has a valve system for the fuels. A couple galons of
gasoline are kept on hand, and replaced every couple months. A larger tank
of kerosene is also present.

The operation plan is that if the pump is needed, the operator comes in.
Sets the valve to "gasoline" and pours in a galon into the smaller gas
tank.
Runs the engine to get it started, and warm, and then changes the valve to
kerosene. When shutting down, it is then necessary to either run the
engine
dry, or change it back to gasoline.

Now, to make this personal. I have a Coleman generator at home, with a 5
HP
Briggs and Stratton engine. Supposing for the sake of discussion, we have
an
extended duration power cut. Has anyone personally had experience with
this?
Is this a correct description?

I've got maybe 5 galons of gasoline at home, and about 20 galons of
kerosene. It would be very nice to use a quart of gas to get my generator
warmed up, and then pour kerosene into the tank. But I'd sure feel more
reassured if someone else out there had done this, and knows that it it
will
work.

Would have to run the generator dry, when shutting down. So as to allow to
restart the next time on a quart or so of gasoline.

I appreciate any ideas, advice, or thoughts.



--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com

In my case it was blue smoke and the engine was a 2-cycle, a Dolmar
chainsaw. I bouhgt the saw second -hand for a brushing project, where
we had to cut alder trees about 2-5" in diam. A couple of days into the
project, bush camp, I woke up sick, went out, filled my jugs from a 5
gallon jug we kept under a tarp there, and rode up to the job site. Of
course the fiver was full of kerosene for the space heater, and i was
so plugged up i never even smelled it. The saw was full of gas from the
day before. I ran three tanks of kerosene through it before coffee,
blowing smoke like a house on fire, and finally got over to where my
buddies were, asked to borrow a tuning screwdriver, get the piece of
%$* to rev up right. "Did you spill kerosene on your pants this
morning?" somebody sez, handing me a screwdriver and sniffing the air.
Yeah we had a good laugh about that.
No harm done, and that saw ran till it shook itself apart many years
later.

JohnK

Chainsaw on pure kero? Sounds like how to sieze up the motor. Seeing as how
no twostroke gas mixed in.

One friend of mine working at a landfill. They had a "runabout" car, soemone
dropped off. Easier than walking to the top of the hill and back. One day he
filled it up with diesel and he says it "never did run right after that".

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Porky" wrote in message
ps.com...
In my case it was blue smoke and the engine was a 2-cycle, a Dolmar
chainsaw. I bouhgt the saw second -hand for a brushing project, where
we had to cut alder trees about 2-5" in diam. A couple of days into the
project, bush camp, I woke up sick, went out, filled my jugs from a 5
gallon jug we kept under a tarp there, and rode up to the job site. Of
course the fiver was full of kerosene for the space heater, and i was
so plugged up i never even smelled it. The saw was full of gas from the
day before. I ran three tanks of kerosene through it before coffee,
blowing smoke like a house on fire, and finally got over to where my
buddies were, asked to borrow a tuning screwdriver, get the piece of
%$* to rev up right. "Did you spill kerosene on your pants this
morning?" somebody sez, handing me a screwdriver and sniffing the air.
Yeah we had a good laugh about that.
No harm done, and that saw ran till it shook itself apart many years
later.

JohnK

Stormin,

What are you using to heat your home? If your are hooked up to LP
gas or natural gas, then there are conversion kits which will enable
your generator to run off that fuel instead of gasoline.

There are a few problems with such a conversion:
1) You've got to spend some money ($100 or so) for the conversion parts.
2) Unless you buy a much more expensive conversion, then you can't
easily switch back and forth between gasoline and natural gas.
3) Your engine will produce fewer horsepower, which means fewer watts
being output. Crude estimate - about 10% less power.

On the plus side, you'll usually never fear running out of fuel for even a
long term power outage and you don't have the danger of storing large
quantities of gasoline.

If the conversion isn't a viable option and I were making the decision,
then I'd just buy a couple of large gasoline containers and store another
15 or 20 gallons of gasoline (with stabilizer added). Rotate your stock
every year or two. How many vehicles do you own? If you are concerned
about power outages, then top off your vehicle gas tanks frequently and
have a good gasoline pump available.

If you store the gasoline for a long time in plastic containers, then be
aware that the more volatile components of the gasoline will leech through
the plastic during long term storage. Blend old storage gasoline at least
50-50 with new gasoline when rotating stock to your vehicles. Likewise,
be aware that the generator won't start as easily on gasoline which has
been stored long term in plastic. Have some starting fluid around or
(better yet) keep at least one gallon of gasoline stored in a metal container.

I've got over twenty gallons of gasoline in storage containers. I've got 4
vehicles, with an average total of at least 50 additional gallons of gasoline
which can be pumped out if needed during an outage. If I'm really desperate,
then I've also got a few gallons of assorted gas-oil mixes which can be
blended into the fuel for a generator (about 1 part in 10). Obviously, I'd
prefer to not have oil in the fuel, but a small amount isn't a big problem if
I'm concerned about a serious power outage.

With 70 or more gallons of gasoline at my disposal, I can keep one or both
of my generators running for a fair amount of time. Probably longer than
the short life of those cheap Briggs engines in the generators.

Obviously I'm not going to pump all of the gasoline out of my vehicles,
so I can always send somebody out for more gasoline after I've used up
most of the 70 or so gallons.

Gideon

More inserted.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Gideon" wrote in message
...

Stormin,

What are you using to heat your home? If your are hooked up to LP
gas or natural gas, then there are conversion kits which will enable
your generator to run off that fuel instead of gasoline.
CY: I'm on NG. However, this isn't totally about one home. Last power cut, I
took the generator to some friends house, and ran their furnace.


There are a few problems with such a conversion:
1) You've got to spend some money ($100 or so) for the conversion parts.
2) Unless you buy a much more expensive conversion, then you can't
easily switch back and forth between gasoline and natural gas.
3) Your engine will produce fewer horsepower, which means fewer watts
being output. Crude estimate - about 10% less power.
CY: A ten percent power cut doesn't bother me all that much. But, spending a
hundred bucks for a conversion does. The "even more expensive" conversion
sounds less desirable.


On the plus side, you'll usually never fear running out of fuel for even a
long term power outage and you don't have the danger of storing large
quantities of gasoline.
CY: I've found the NG to be very dependable, here. So you're right about
less concern about running out of fuel. Of course, it's just a pipe in the
ground. If the fuel company stops pushing NG into the pipe, I'll stop
getting NG out of the pipe.


If the conversion isn't a viable option and I were making the decision,
then I'd just buy a couple of large gasoline containers and store another
15 or 20 gallons of gasoline (with stabilizer added). Rotate your stock
every year or two.
CY: That is very practical answer. This might be the year to build an
outdoor shed.

How many vehicles do you own? If you are concerned
about power outages, then top off your vehicle gas tanks frequently and
have a good gasoline pump available.
CY: Two, and that is a very good thought. I've got a couple of those squeeze
bulb siphons, which aren't all that useful. I had a hand pump, that also
wasn't all that useful.


If you store the gasoline for a long time in plastic containers, then be
aware that the more volatile components of the gasoline will leech through
the plastic during long term storage.
CY: I did not think of htat. Yes, my gas "can" is plastic. A plastic gas
can, to me, is like a plastic knife. It just isn't the same.

Blend old storage gasoline at least
50-50 with new gasoline when rotating stock to your vehicles.
CY: Or pour in a gas "can" every couple weeks into a tank of fuel.

Likewise,
be aware that the generator won't start as easily on gasoline which has
been stored long term in plastic. Have some starting fluid around or
(better yet) keep at least one gallon of gasoline stored in a metal
container.
CY: I'll have to try to find metal gas CANS for when I build my shed.


I've got over twenty gallons of gasoline in storage containers. I've got 4
vehicles, with an average total of at least 50 additional gallons of
gasoline
which can be pumped out if needed during an outage. If I'm really
desperate,
then I've also got a few gallons of assorted gas-oil mixes which can be
blended into the fuel for a generator (about 1 part in 10). Obviously, I'd
prefer to not have oil in the fuel, but a small amount isn't a big problem
if
I'm concerned about a serious power outage.
CY: Well, it runs in the chainsaw.... I'm with you, two stroke mix goes in
the generator if it has to.


With 70 or more gallons of gasoline at my disposal, I can keep one or both
of my generators running for a fair amount of time. Probably longer than
the short life of those cheap Briggs engines in the generators.
CY: Yes, that's for sure. And mine is a cheapo consumer model. The challenge
is to stay out of sight, so your neighbors aren't coming over for a cup of
sugar, and a galon of gas.

Obviously I'm not going to pump all of the gasoline out of my vehicles,
so I can always send somebody out for more gasoline after I've used up
most of the 70 or so gallons.
CY: Right, don't want to be caught without transportation.


Gideon
CY: GReat bunch of thoughts, and I do thank you.

Stormin,

I've got some friends who are a LOT more serious about self-sufficiency and
disaster survival situations than I am. They purchase those large olive drab
Army surplus metal cans for gasoline storage. They have extremely good gaskets
and impervious steel cases. With a bit of Stabil squirted into each can,
you've got some good long-term and spillproof storage. (You see these tall gas
cans strapped to the sides of WWII Jeeps in old movies.)

If you may have to drive out to remote locations with a generator and gas cans,
then I'd consider getting a couple of these rugged storage cans.

I'll check this weekend on where to buy the Army surplus cans and post back
to the newsgroup. My friends have already done the research on lowest cost
on these very standard containers.

I know that 5 gallon plastic cans go on sale periodically for about $4.

Gideon

Hmm. That's an excellent idea. First, however, I oughta build a shed.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Gideon" wrote in message
...
Stormin,

I've got some friends who are a LOT more serious about self-sufficiency and
disaster survival situations than I am. They purchase those large olive
drab
Army surplus metal cans for gasoline storage. They have extremely good
gaskets
and impervious steel cases. With a bit of Stabil squirted into each can,
you've got some good long-term and spillproof storage. (You see these tall
gas
cans strapped to the sides of WWII Jeeps in old movies.)

If you may have to drive out to remote locations with a generator and gas
cans,
then I'd consider getting a couple of these rugged storage cans.

I'll check this weekend on where to buy the Army surplus cans and post back
to the newsgroup. My friends have already done the research on lowest cost
on these very standard containers.

I know that 5 gallon plastic cans go on sale periodically for about $4.

Gideon

In 1971 - don't ask me why - I was young and "green." I was a science
teacher that wanted to show off my knowledge I guess. I bought a new
Chevy Vega - and had a propane tank put in the trunk and a carb fitted
that would work with propane. I was so proud that I had a car that could
"run inside" with little pollution. Clean burning propane would allow
the engine to run forever without needing new plugs or tuneups. In those
days when cars started up - especially in winter - they idled terribly
until they were warm but propane startups were really smooth. I would be
helping the energy crisis - I told my students. What I did not tell them
was - what a problem it was finding places to fill up. Also - that you
got less miles per gallon on propane than gasoline. After a year or so -
the whole idea wore thin (I got married) - I put the old carb back on
and ran it on gasoline. In 1973 - Winnebago made the Brave motor home
with a dual fuel option - gasoline and propane.
Just the other day I was in the junk yard - buying a replacement engine
for a friend's car. The junk yard guy - took us out in the yard with a
20 pound propane tank and a battery. Whenever we wanted to start and
engine - that was sitting for months - he would stick a propane tube in
the carb - hook up the battery - and the engine would fire right up and
run smoothly.
Harry

Makes me wonder. My van is usually hard to start -- it behaves like it takes
six or seven seconds to get the fuel from the gas tank to the fuel pump.

Wonder if I coudl rig somethign with a 16 ounce propane tank, regulator, and
a hose to the air intake. Give it a shot of propane for starting.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
In 1971 - don't ask me why - I was young and "green." I was a science
teacher that wanted to show off my knowledge I guess. I bought a new
Chevy Vega - and had a propane tank put in the trunk and a carb fitted
that would work with propane. I was so proud that I had a car that could
"run inside" with little pollution. Clean burning propane would allow
the engine to run forever without needing new plugs or tuneups. In those
days when cars started up - especially in winter - they idled terribly
until they were warm but propane startups were really smooth. I would be
helping the energy crisis - I told my students. What I did not tell them
was - what a problem it was finding places to fill up. Also - that you
got less miles per gallon on propane than gasoline. After a year or so -
the whole idea wore thin (I got married) - I put the old carb back on
and ran it on gasoline. In 1973 - Winnebago made the Brave motor home
with a dual fuel option - gasoline and propane.
Just the other day I was in the junk yard - buying a replacement engine
for a friend's car. The junk yard guy - took us out in the yard with a
20 pound propane tank and a battery. Whenever we wanted to start and
engine - that was sitting for months - he would stick a propane tube in
the carb - hook up the battery - and the engine would fire right up and
run smoothly.
Harry

Probably a lot safer and easier to install an electric fuel pump if not
already so equipped but the propane should work if properly installed and
used.
Don Young
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
. ..
Makes me wonder. My van is usually hard to start -- it behaves like it
takes
six or seven seconds to get the fuel from the gas tank to the fuel pump.

Wonder if I coudl rig somethign with a 16 ounce propane tank, regulator,
and
a hose to the air intake. Give it a shot of propane for starting.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
In 1971 - don't ask me why - I was young and "green." I was a science
teacher that wanted to show off my knowledge I guess. I bought a new
Chevy Vega - and had a propane tank put in the trunk and a carb fitted
that would work with propane. I was so proud that I had a car that could
"run inside" with little pollution. Clean burning propane would allow
the engine to run forever without needing new plugs or tuneups. In those
days when cars started up - especially in winter - they idled terribly
until they were warm but propane startups were really smooth. I would be
helping the energy crisis - I told my students. What I did not tell them
was - what a problem it was finding places to fill up. Also - that you
got less miles per gallon on propane than gasoline. After a year or so -
the whole idea wore thin (I got married) - I put the old carb back on
and ran it on gasoline. In 1973 - Winnebago made the Brave motor home
with a dual fuel option - gasoline and propane.
Just the other day I was in the junk yard - buying a replacement engine
for a friend's car. The junk yard guy - took us out in the yard with a
20 pound propane tank and a battery. Whenever we wanted to start and
engine - that was sitting for months - he would stick a propane tube in
the carb - hook up the battery - and the engine would fire right up and
run smoothly.
Harry

Some of this discussion has moved from talking about diesel fuel in generators
and moved to diesel fuel in automobiles. I skimmed through my file of "car
talk" columns from the newspaper and found a familiar column which I had read
last year. I was surprised by the apparent severity of even small amount of
diesel, such as 1 gallon in 20, in the fuel for modern gasoline engines. I
found this same article on the Internet and I've copied it below, along with
appropriate credit to the authors (who have written several good books).

I am curious how extension the recommended fix would be if this person
had actually run the engine with the diesel-gasoline mixture. All his wife
did was put the mixture into the fuel tank.

Gideon


http://www.cartalk.com/content/colum...4/July/08.html

Tom & Ray Magliozzi
(The "Car Talk" guys)
July 2004
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Dear Tom and Ray:

This evening, my overworked, overbooked, type-A wife accidentally put about 3.5
gallons of diesel into her nearly empty 1998 Honda Odyssey. Upon realizing her
mistake, she filled up the rest of the 12-gallon tank with gasoline. At that
point, she wisely decided to call me before trying to drive it. I told her to
park it, and I immediately called two mechanics to get their advice. I first
called the dealer, and he said not to drive the car and to have it towed in. He
said he would have to drain the gas tank and steam-clean it to get the diesel
out and then check to see how far into the system the diesel fuel might have
gotten. If we were lucky, it wouldn't have gotten sucked into the fuel pump,
the fuel line or the injectors. If we weren't lucky, the dealer sure would be!

Then I called my trusty curbside mechanic, who comes to the house with all his
tools and equipment in his truck and always provides me with reliable repair
service for about a quarter of what the dealer quotes. He said that we probably
could drive it. It would smoke some while the diesel burned out, but he thought
that it might be OK, except maybe we would have to replace the oxygen sensors.


I usually like to take the path of least resistance, but in this case I felt it
would be better to be safe than sorry, and we had the car towed in for service.
What should we do before driving it? Thank you, and don't fuel like my wife.

-- Neil


RAY: Well, I think the dealer gave you the correct advice, Neil. But you might
not need to be quite as thorough as he's suggesting. And you certainly don't
have to let him do the work, if you like your buddy, Crusty McToolbox, better.

TOM: It sounds like your wife never even ran the engine with the diesel fuel.
So, we can say with confidence that none of it got into the fuel lines. All of
it's still in the tank.

RAY: The tank needs to be removed and drained. You can probably skip the
steam-cleaning phase, as I'm guessing that less than half a cup of diesel will
remain on the fuel-tank walls.

TOM: After you reinstall the tank and refill it with gasoline, I'd have Crusty
remove the fuel line where it joins the fuel rail, up in the engine
compartment. Then you can cycle the fuel pump (without running the engine) and
take a sample of the fuel in a glass bottle. Let it settle out and see if it
looks clean. Do this several times, or until you get good, clean-looking
gasoline. Then hook everything back up and drive it.

RAY: The fuel injectors shouldn't be bothered, even if there is still a tiny
amount of diluted diesel fuel in the tank -- it'll just burn right up in the
cylinders without any problem. Crusty is right, though, that if you ran a
quantity of diesel through the engine, you'd be putting the oxygen sensors at
real risk. And they're not cheap to replace.

TOM: But I don't think the diluted remnants of half a cup of diesel fuel in 12
gallons of gasoline will do any harm. Of course, if we're wrong and your fuel
system is ruined, let us know, so we can warn the next poor schlub who does
this. Good luck, Neil.

Hmm. That gets me thinking. I wonder if kerosene would do damage to a modern
vehicle? I'm thinking like the times when the power is out, and I've got
some kero around the house. But the truck is low on gas. Pour some kero into
the truck.... or not?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Gideon" wrote in message
...
Some of this discussion has moved from talking about diesel fuel in
generators
and moved to diesel fuel in automobiles. I skimmed through my file of "car
talk" columns from the newspaper and found a familiar column which I had
read
last year. I was surprised by the apparent severity of even small amount of
diesel, such as 1 gallon in 20, in the fuel for modern gasoline engines. I
found this same article on the Internet and I've copied it below, along with
appropriate credit to the authors (who have written several good books).

I am curious how extension the recommended fix would be if this person
had actually run the engine with the diesel-gasoline mixture. All his wife
did was put the mixture into the fuel tank.

Gideon


http://www.cartalk.com/content/colum...4/July/08.html

Tom & Ray Magliozzi
(The "Car Talk" guys)
July 2004
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
-
Dear Tom and Ray:

This evening, my overworked, overbooked, type-A wife accidentally put about
3.5
gallons of diesel into her nearly empty 1998 Honda Odyssey. Upon realizing
her
mistake, she filled up the rest of the 12-gallon tank with gasoline. At that
point, she wisely decided to call me before trying to drive it. I told her
to
park it, and I immediately called two mechanics to get their advice. I first
called the dealer, and he said not to drive the car and to have it towed in.
He
said he would have to drain the gas tank and steam-clean it to get the
diesel
out and then check to see how far into the system the diesel fuel might have
gotten. If we were lucky, it wouldn't have gotten sucked into the fuel pump,
the fuel line or the injectors. If we weren't lucky, the dealer sure would
be!

Then I called my trusty curbside mechanic, who comes to the house with all
his
tools and equipment in his truck and always provides me with reliable repair
service for about a quarter of what the dealer quotes. He said that we
probably
could drive it. It would smoke some while the diesel burned out, but he
thought
that it might be OK, except maybe we would have to replace the oxygen
sensors.


I usually like to take the path of least resistance, but in this case I felt
it
would be better to be safe than sorry, and we had the car towed in for
service.
What should we do before driving it? Thank you, and don't fuel like my wife.

-- Neil


RAY: Well, I think the dealer gave you the correct advice, Neil. But you
might
not need to be quite as thorough as he's suggesting. And you certainly don't
have to let him do the work, if you like your buddy, Crusty McToolbox,
better.

TOM: It sounds like your wife never even ran the engine with the diesel
fuel.
So, we can say with confidence that none of it got into the fuel lines. All
of
it's still in the tank.

RAY: The tank needs to be removed and drained. You can probably skip the
steam-cleaning phase, as I'm guessing that less than half a cup of diesel
will
remain on the fuel-tank walls.

TOM: After you reinstall the tank and refill it with gasoline, I'd have
Crusty
remove the fuel line where it joins the fuel rail, up in the engine
compartment. Then you can cycle the fuel pump (without running the engine)
and
take a sample of the fuel in a glass bottle. Let it settle out and see if it
looks clean. Do this several times, or until you get good, clean-looking
gasoline. Then hook everything back up and drive it.

RAY: The fuel injectors shouldn't be bothered, even if there is still a tiny
amount of diluted diesel fuel in the tank -- it'll just burn right up in the
cylinders without any problem. Crusty is right, though, that if you ran a
quantity of diesel through the engine, you'd be putting the oxygen sensors
at
real risk. And they're not cheap to replace.

TOM: But I don't think the diluted remnants of half a cup of diesel fuel in
12
gallons of gasoline will do any harm. Of course, if we're wrong and your
fuel
system is ruined, let us know, so we can warn the next poor schlub who does
this. Good luck, Neil.

Stormin,

The article I posted was a year old and was discussing a 1998 Honda
Odyssey. I'd consider that to be a modern car - It's newer than 3 of
my four vehicles.

Based upon that article which I posted, I'd avoid fuel oil in any gasoline
engine.

Gideon

I agree, 1998 I consider to be modern.

OK, sounds like a good idea to avoid diesel in modern gasoline vehciles. too
much electronic stuff, oxygen sensors, and so on.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Gideon" wrote in message
...
Stormin,

The article I posted was a year old and was discussing a 1998 Honda
Odyssey. I'd consider that to be a modern car - It's newer than 3 of
my four vehicles.

Based upon that article which I posted, I'd avoid fuel oil in any gasoline
engine.

Gideon