I have recently experienced well based water supply where the pressure in my
pressure tank drops to zero and eventually repressurizes. The entire
assembly is just over two years old. It uses a submerisble pump (sorry, no
make and model info) with a 20 gallon bladder pressure tank. The well is
380' and had (at drilling) a 7 gpm flow, and we've been getting a fair bit
of wet weather over the past 2 years, so I'm assuming that I haven't run the
well dry. I've recently adjusted the cut in/cut out in order to get some
additional pressure in the second story (though the adjustments weren't too
significant, from 45-72psi to 50-74 psi). There is approx 38 psi above the
bladder. This problem started approx. 2 weeks after making that change.

What I've seen from my trouble shooting. The pressure switch seems to be
working correctly and there is power to the switch. While watching the
pressure gauge, I see a spike approx. once per minute as the ?pump? tries to
kick on. Eventually it catches (not sure if that's the right term), I can
hear the water flowing and the pressure rises to the normal cut off and the
pump cuts out. I can then run the water, decreasing the pressure in the
tank and watch the pressure swithc cut over at the cut in pressure... though
the pump doesn't necessarily cut in.

Some other data points... from a zero pressure, I've seen the pump catch,
and then cut off about a second after, but most of the time, it just kicks
up the pressure (to approx. 40 psi) and then stops... this probably takes
1/2 second.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Jeff

Are you actually seeing the pressure switch trip at the right time? If not
I would pull off the pressure switch and clean the pipe it connects to.
Gunk in the pipe may prevent the switch from feeling pressure drop even
though a guage next to it on another pipe sees the drop..



"Jeff" wrote in message
...
I have recently experienced well based water supply where the pressure in
my
pressure tank drops to zero and eventually repressurizes. The entire
assembly is just over two years old. It uses a submerisble pump (sorry,
no
make and model info) with a 20 gallon bladder pressure tank. The well is
380' and had (at drilling) a 7 gpm flow, and we've been getting a fair bit
of wet weather over the past 2 years, so I'm assuming that I haven't run
the
well dry. I've recently adjusted the cut in/cut out in order to get some
additional pressure in the second story (though the adjustments weren't
too
significant, from 45-72psi to 50-74 psi). There is approx 38 psi above
the
bladder. This problem started approx. 2 weeks after making that change.

What I've seen from my trouble shooting. The pressure switch seems to be
working correctly and there is power to the switch. While watching the
pressure gauge, I see a spike approx. once per minute as the ?pump? tries
to
kick on. Eventually it catches (not sure if that's the right term), I can
hear the water flowing and the pressure rises to the normal cut off and
the
pump cuts out. I can then run the water, decreasing the pressure in the
tank and watch the pressure swithc cut over at the cut in pressure...
though
the pump doesn't necessarily cut in.

Some other data points... from a zero pressure, I've seen the pump catch,
and then cut off about a second after, but most of the time, it just kicks
up the pressure (to approx. 40 psi) and then stops... this probably takes
1/2 second.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Jeff

The pressure switch is tripping at the appropriate times (or at least
consistent with the gage), it has settings for both cut in and cut out
pressure and I see the switch pop at the appropriate pressures. That said,
it is as if there is something else in the equation. I'm assuming the pump
is what pressurizes the tank... and even though the cut in is activated the
pump doesn't immediately activate. It seems the pump tries to cut on about
every minute. Most of the time, I see just an instaneous boost in pressure,
but every once in while it catches, I hear the water flowing and the
pressure tank pumps up to the cut off pressure (just over 70 psi). So I
have water periodically, as long as I don't use copious amounts at one time.

"Art" wrote in message
k.net...
Are you actually seeing the pressure switch trip at the right time? If
not
I would pull off the pressure switch and clean the pipe it connects to.
Gunk in the pipe may prevent the switch from feeling pressure drop even
though a guage next to it on another pipe sees the drop..



"Jeff" wrote in message
...
I have recently experienced well based water supply where the pressure in
my
pressure tank drops to zero and eventually repressurizes. The entire
assembly is just over two years old. It uses a submerisble pump (sorry,
no
make and model info) with a 20 gallon bladder pressure tank. The well
is
380' and had (at drilling) a 7 gpm flow, and we've been getting a fair
bit
of wet weather over the past 2 years, so I'm assuming that I haven't run
the
well dry. I've recently adjusted the cut in/cut out in order to get
some
additional pressure in the second story (though the adjustments weren't
too
significant, from 45-72psi to 50-74 psi). There is approx 38 psi above
the
bladder. This problem started approx. 2 weeks after making that change.

What I've seen from my trouble shooting. The pressure switch seems to
be
working correctly and there is power to the switch. While watching the
pressure gauge, I see a spike approx. once per minute as the ?pump?
tries
to
kick on. Eventually it catches (not sure if that's the right term), I
can
hear the water flowing and the pressure rises to the normal cut off and
the
pump cuts out. I can then run the water, decreasing the pressure in the
tank and watch the pressure swithc cut over at the cut in pressure...
though
the pump doesn't necessarily cut in.

Some other data points... from a zero pressure, I've seen the pump
catch,
and then cut off about a second after, but most of the time, it just
kicks
up the pressure (to approx. 40 psi) and then stops... this probably
takes
1/2 second.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Jeff

Jeff wrote:
The pressure switch is tripping at the appropriate times (or at least
consistent with the gage), it has settings for both cut in and cut out
pressure and I see the switch pop at the appropriate pressures. That said,
it is as if there is something else in the equation. I'm assuming the pump
is what pressurizes the tank... and even though the cut in is activated the
pump doesn't immediately activate. It seems the pump tries to cut on about
every minute. Most of the time, I see just an instaneous boost in pressure,
but every once in while it catches, I hear the water flowing and the
pressure tank pumps up to the cut off pressure (just over 70 psi). So I
have water periodically, as long as I don't use copious amounts at one time.

SNIP replies

That is a *very* deep well and the pump has a lot of head pressure
to work against at startup. Sounds to me like the motor is having
trouble developing enough starting torque; thus the repeated start
attempts.

Try setting the pressure switch to a dramatically lower pressure,
like 20/40. If the pump now works normally, the pump performance
is marginal. (This is just an experiment to gather info.)

Is the pump too small? Wrong impeller config? Bad start capacitor?
Bad motor? I'm not enough of an expert to answer that...

Jim

Assuming the pressure gage is correct, the pump has had problems kicking in
a zero or near zero pressure. If I let the water continue to run (past the
low cut in) the pressure will drop to zero or near zero. Even at that
point, I see the pump attempt to kick in and fail. It will attempt to
start, kick up the pressure instantaneously to about 40 psi, and then
shutoff. One thing I did notice and I'm not certain if its just
coincidence, is when I have the pressure gage drop to zero, I've seen the
pump catch after letting water drain out to a trickle at the pump head. I
believe the first time I did this the pressure gage had been at zero for
some time (hours), so there may be some association, but I hesitate to build
a theory on 2 attempts. The result isn't instanaeous either, the second
time I drained the system, watched the pressure gage for about 10 minutes
with the pump not catching and then went to the well head to further release
pressure, I believe there was a 5-15 minute lag between my running the water
(barely a trickle) out of the pump head and the pump catching. I checked
the pressure shortly after releasing water at the pump head and the pressure
was still zero.

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote:
The pressure switch is tripping at the appropriate times (or at least
consistent with the gage), it has settings for both cut in and cut out
pressure and I see the switch pop at the appropriate pressures. That
said,
it is as if there is something else in the equation. I'm assuming the
pump
is what pressurizes the tank... and even though the cut in is activated
the
pump doesn't immediately activate. It seems the pump tries to cut on
about
every minute. Most of the time, I see just an instaneous boost in
pressure,
but every once in while it catches, I hear the water flowing and the
pressure tank pumps up to the cut off pressure (just over 70 psi). So I
have water periodically, as long as I don't use copious amounts at one
time.

SNIP replies

That is a *very* deep well and the pump has a lot of head pressure
to work against at startup. Sounds to me like the motor is having
trouble developing enough starting torque; thus the repeated start
attempts.

Try setting the pressure switch to a dramatically lower pressure,
like 20/40. If the pump now works normally, the pump performance
is marginal. (This is just an experiment to gather info.)

Is the pump too small? Wrong impeller config? Bad start capacitor?
Bad motor? I'm not enough of an expert to answer that...

Jim

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 18:40:39 -0500, Speedy Jim wrote
(with possible editing):

Jeff wrote:
The pressure switch is tripping at the appropriate times (or at least
consistent with the gage), it has settings for both cut in and cut out
pressure and I see the switch pop at the appropriate pressures. That said,
it is as if there is something else in the equation. I'm assuming the pump
is what pressurizes the tank... and even though the cut in is activated the
pump doesn't immediately activate. It seems the pump tries to cut on about
every minute. Most of the time, I see just an instaneous boost in pressure,
but every once in while it catches, I hear the water flowing and the
pressure tank pumps up to the cut off pressure (just over 70 psi). So I
have water periodically, as long as I don't use copious amounts at one time.

SNIP replies

That is a *very* deep well and the pump has a lot of head pressure
to work against at startup. Sounds to me like the motor is having
trouble developing enough starting torque; thus the repeated start
attempts.

Actually, it isn't the depth of the well but the depth of the top of
the water level that determines the net pressure.

--
Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

Wonder if you were sold a lousy pump. My original Gould pump lasted 12
years. THe replacement was crap for the 3 years it held up.


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
I have recently experienced well based water supply where the pressure in
my
pressure tank drops to zero and eventually repressurizes. The entire
assembly is just over two years old. It uses a submerisble pump (sorry,
no
make and model info) with a 20 gallon bladder pressure tank. The well is
380' and had (at drilling) a 7 gpm flow, and we've been getting a fair bit
of wet weather over the past 2 years, so I'm assuming that I haven't run
the
well dry. I've recently adjusted the cut in/cut out in order to get some
additional pressure in the second story (though the adjustments weren't
too
significant, from 45-72psi to 50-74 psi). There is approx 38 psi above
the
bladder. This problem started approx. 2 weeks after making that change.

What I've seen from my trouble shooting. The pressure switch seems to be
working correctly and there is power to the switch. While watching the
pressure gauge, I see a spike approx. once per minute as the ?pump? tries
to
kick on. Eventually it catches (not sure if that's the right term), I can
hear the water flowing and the pressure rises to the normal cut off and
the
pump cuts out. I can then run the water, decreasing the pressure in the
tank and watch the pressure swithc cut over at the cut in pressure...
though
the pump doesn't necessarily cut in.

Some other data points... from a zero pressure, I've seen the pump catch,
and then cut off about a second after, but most of the time, it just kicks
up the pressure (to approx. 40 psi) and then stops... this probably takes
1/2 second.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Jeff

Jeff wrote:

Drain the pressure tank and see that it is empty...part of the problem
may be your tank is becoming water-logged...happens it the
bladder/diaphragm develops a pinhole leak...

Second, check the current draw on the pump when it tries to start and
run...

Third, the tank pressure (empty) should be two pounds below the cut-in
pressure. If it's 20-40, say, the enmpty tank pressure should be 18.
If you need higher pressure than about 50, I'd recommend a pressure
booster rather than relying on the well pump unless it is really strong.