Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

My personal experience is that if you are only a hobbyist, you can get away
with buying *some* cheaper tools.
For example, I would never buy cheap cordless drills because the batteries
they put on them are pretty much useless.
On the other hand, I have paid next to nothing for some corded drills and
they have lasted me 5+ years with no problems so far (just brush changes
etc).

I also have a cheap rotary tool, a couple small cheap routers I use for
trimming and edging and these have worked fine too.
You can get away with cheap air tools as well if they are only for
occassional use.

For tools like miter saws, heavier duty routers, tablesaws etc, it pays to
buy quality.

--
Regards,

Dean Bielanowski
Editor,
Online Tool Reviews
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com
Over 60 woodworking product reviews online!
------------------------------------------------------------
Latest 6 Reviews:
- Festool CT22E Dust Extractor
- Fasco GN-40A Brad Nailer
- Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Furniture & Cabinet Construction
- Milescraft SignCrafter
- Ryobi EMS1830SCL 12" SCMS
- Bessey K-Body Clamps
------------------------------------------------------------

IF you can try it before buying, you can get a feel of the quality of THAT
tool, quality control is very hap-hazard. One will be smooth, the next one
ruffer then a cob. I do have a 14 in. band saw and a 7 in. jointer, pleased
with both.

I got the cheap "Chicago Electric" Wet saw for $69 (made in China)
a few weeks ago, and it has cut a few hundred 12" ceremic tiles
with no problem. The top did get some rust since I left it without
clean up for several days.

As for cordless, I got a cheap made in China ($50) 16.8V Craftman
cordless 2 1/2 year ago. I used it to finish my basement - 2 25lb
boxes of 3" and 1 25lb box of 1 5/8" screws later, it becomes
weak a bit. But it will probably last while. That drill kit includes
2 batteries, 1 hand vac and a hard carry box.

So if you are not using those tools for a living, I guess they are
just fine for your projects.


Woodcrafter wrote:
"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...

Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks


My personal experience is that if you are only a hobbyist, you can get away
with buying *some* cheaper tools.
For example, I would never buy cheap cordless drills because the batteries
they put on them are pretty much useless.
On the other hand, I have paid next to nothing for some corded drills and
they have lasted me 5+ years with no problems so far (just brush changes
etc).

I also have a cheap rotary tool, a couple small cheap routers I use for
trimming and edging and these have worked fine too.
You can get away with cheap air tools as well if they are only for
occassional use.

For tools like miter saws, heavier duty routers, tablesaws etc, it pays to
buy quality.

--
Regards,

Dean Bielanowski
Editor,
Online Tool Reviews
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com
Over 60 woodworking product reviews online!
------------------------------------------------------------
Latest 6 Reviews:
- Festool CT22E Dust Extractor
- Fasco GN-40A Brad Nailer
- Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Furniture & Cabinet Construction
- Milescraft SignCrafter
- Ryobi EMS1830SCL 12" SCMS
- Bessey K-Body Clamps
------------------------------------------------------------

"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

I have on of their edge grinders (less than $20) for about three years.
Perhaps use it once a month so it does an adequate job for me.

$200 is kind of high for the saw. The price should be about $120. The
Chicago saw is not as powerful. I bought one from Sears for about $50 a few
years ago and am certain for what I had have used it for the Chicago would
have been good enough.

Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks


Like the others have already said, if you are only going to use their
tools once a month or so, and aren't going to drop them onto the ground
from a couple of stories, they can do a credible job.

I got one of their portable bandsaws when it was on sale for around $60
and I swear it's the greatest thing since sliced bread for cutting
almost anything from wood to 2" x 2" angle iron. I think I reach for it
more often than any other hand power tool in my collection.

I've bought some of their router and other woodworking bits and they
seem pretty workable for the occasional use I give them.

The only power tool I ever bought from them which was a real
disappointment was their garden "shredder/chipper", bought when it was
on sale for a little over $100. It's far too small do do any kind of
real job converting brush into wood chips. I tried using it once last
year and never bothered with it again, It took nearly an hour for me to
get one bushel of homemade mulch. I'm about ready to give it to Goodwill
before the year ends and take a charitable deduction for it, 'cause I
get annoyed every time I look at it taking up space in the garage.

HTH,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

I got one of their portable bandsaws when it was on sale for around
$60 and I swear it's the greatest thing since sliced bread for cutting
almost anything from wood to 2" x 2" angle iron. I think I reach for
it more often than any other hand power tool in my collection.

I have their larger bandsaw on a stand; it's great. Their blades, though,
are terrible.

I also bought their electric impact wrench about 12 years ago. It still
works fine.

Since then I have bought a disc grinder, sawzall knockoff, lots of hand
tools, compressor, hammer drill, floodlights, and their largest 3-in-1
multimachine. Everything works as advertised.

Last week I borrowed a friend's small (1300 psi I think) electric power
washer he bought for $79. The damn thing did a great job washing my brick
house and sidewalks.

I have been a satisfied customer for years and will continue to be.

When building to a low price point, compromises in build quality have to be
made. For example, contractor-grade power tools have ball bearing
construction, whereas the Chicago Electric stuff has cheap bushings in their
place. They work OK when new but wear quickly and develop tolerances that
are unacceptable to tradesmen.

If you only use the tool once a month or so, it may last you a long time.
But if you get involved in a couple weekend-long projects where the tool
gets a thorough workout, don't be surprised if you have to make a trip to
the builder's supply to replace with with a Porter Cable, Bosch, etc.

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
(snip)
Like the others have already said, if you are only going to use their
tools once a month or so, and aren't going to drop them onto the ground
from a couple of stories, they can do a credible job.
(snip)

Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:

Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks
I have their biscuit joiner, a friend gave me after he used it a few times
and decided he liked biscuits so he bought a better one. I used it to make
my router table but that is the only time I've used it so far. It has a
scratchy sound while running that makes you think its going to let the
magic smoke out any minute but managed to hold together so far. It isn't
very accurate, the plastic fence flexes and will move a bit from the start
of the project until the finish so its not something you would want to make
real fine furniture with or use a lot.

Hi,

A contractor friend of mine told
me that voltage, translates into work.

So I ordered a right angle
cordless drill at 18V., and a regular
cordless drill, also at 18V. .

After endless charging sessions, I
did get ONE hole, in a plastic cup,
using a wire drill, ~1/32", (or-so) -
and nothing else.

Now, I've got to locate quality
18V. batteries, or try to repair the
four that HF sent.

Lesson learned.

Ken .






On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:39:41 +0000,
Eugene wrote:

Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:

Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks
I have their biscuit joiner, a friend gave me after he used it a few times
and decided he liked biscuits so he bought a better one. I used it to make
my router table but that is the only time I've used it so far. It has a
scratchy sound while running that makes you think its going to let the
magic smoke out any minute but managed to hold together so far. It isn't
very accurate, the plastic fence flexes and will move a bit from the start
of the project until the finish so its not something you would want to make
real fine furniture with or use a lot.

From my experience, HF tools in general are both cheap and inexpensive. I
have some really nice, cheap, automotive measuring gauges, for the little I
use them, they're fantastic. If I were a mechanic, they would have never
have held up. I also have a HF sand blaster and table saw. Again, for the
little I use these things, they are perfectly fine. I would never buy a tool
from them and expect it to work as well or hold up like a professional
quality tool would.




"Real Name" wrote in message
...
Hi,

A contractor friend of mine told
me that voltage, translates into work.

So I ordered a right angle
cordless drill at 18V., and a regular
cordless drill, also at 18V. .

After endless charging sessions, I
did get ONE hole, in a plastic cup,
using a wire drill, ~1/32", (or-so) -
and nothing else.

Now, I've got to locate quality
18V. batteries, or try to repair the
four that HF sent.

Lesson learned.

Ken .






On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:39:41 +0000,
Eugene wrote:

Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:

Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks
I have their biscuit joiner, a friend gave me after he used it a few times
and decided he liked biscuits so he bought a better one. I used it to
make
my router table but that is the only time I've used it so far. It has a
scratchy sound while running that makes you think its going to let the
magic smoke out any minute but managed to hold together so far. It isn't
very accurate, the plastic fence flexes and will move a bit from the start
of the project until the finish so its not something you would want to
make
real fine furniture with or use a lot.

I'v e had reasonable results with their Drill Master cordless drills.
However, their Pittsburgh flare wrenches were worse than useless.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
From my experience, HF tools in general are both cheap and inexpensive. I
have some really nice, cheap, automotive measuring gauges, for the little I
use them, they're fantastic. If I were a mechanic, they would have never
have held up. I also have a HF sand blaster and table saw. Again, for the
little I use these things, they are perfectly fine. I would never buy a tool
from them and expect it to work as well or hold up like a professional
quality tool would.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

I'v e had reasonable results with their Drill Master cordless drills.
However, their Pittsburgh flare wrenches were worse than useless.


The jigsaw I bought,a HF clone of a Bosch 1581,is a great tool.
Got it for $59USD.+ shipping.(on sale)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

In article , "RBM" rbm2(remove
says...
From my experience, HF tools in general are both cheap and inexpensive. I
have some really nice, cheap, automotive measuring gauges, for the little I
use them, they're fantastic. If I were a mechanic, they would have never
have held up. I also have a HF sand blaster and table saw. Again, for the
little I use these things, they are perfectly fine. I would never buy a tool
from them and expect it to work as well or hold up like a professional
quality tool would.

I've bought quite a few things from HF. Some are junk (18V
cordless drill at a dollar a volt), some are quite reasonable -
box-of-chocolates sort of thing. A 36-pack of disposable paint
brushes for $6 was a pretty good deal, as were the $2 multi-meters
(so I can loan them out; never to return, instead of my Flukes ;-).

I recently bought their 10" Sliding Compound Miter Saw. While it's
no Hitachi, it is actually pretty good, at 1/5 the price. I cut
some molding with it and the miters are dead on. For $100 I was
quite impressed.

--
Keith

I had an order come up short one item. Called them on the phone, and they
shipped the missing item promptly.

Have you called them about warranty return?

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Real Name" wrote in message
...
Hi,

A contractor friend of mine told
me that voltage, translates into work.

So I ordered a right angle
cordless drill at 18V., and a regular
cordless drill, also at 18V. .

After endless charging sessions, I
did get ONE hole, in a plastic cup,
using a wire drill, ~1/32", (or-so) -
and nothing else.

Now, I've got to locate quality
18V. batteries, or try to repair the
four that HF sent.

Lesson learned.

Ken .

I don't have the Chicago Electric drills but I
have 2 12Volt Drill Master which I suppose are
made by the same manufacturer. Had them for over
a year and they perform just fine for occasional
use. I watch carefully that I don't over charge
them. I have friends that have higher power
Harbor Freight drills (don't know if they are
Chicago Electric or Drill Master) and they don't
have a problem.

After endless charging? Sure you didn't fry the
batteries? Mine say charge 5-6 hours maximum.


Real Name wrote:
Hi,

A contractor friend of mine told
me that voltage, translates into work.

So I ordered a right angle
cordless drill at 18V., and a regular
cordless drill, also at 18V. .

After endless charging sessions, I
did get ONE hole, in a plastic cup,
using a wire drill, ~1/32", (or-so) -
and nothing else.

Now, I've got to locate quality
18V. batteries, or try to repair the
four that HF sent.

Lesson learned.

Ken .






On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:39:41 +0000,
Eugene wrote:


Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:


Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

I have their biscuit joiner, a friend gave me after he used it a few times
and decided he liked biscuits so he bought a better one. I used it to make
my router table but that is the only time I've used it so far. It has a
scratchy sound while running that makes you think its going to let the
magic smoke out any minute but managed to hold together so far. It isn't
very accurate, the plastic fence flexes and will move a bit from the start
of the project until the finish so its not something you would want to make
real fine furniture with or use a lot.

Real Name wrote:
Hi,

A contractor friend of mine told
me that voltage, translates into work.

So I ordered a right angle
cordless drill at 18V., and a regular
cordless drill, also at 18V. .

After endless charging sessions, I
did get ONE hole, in a plastic cup,
using a wire drill, ~1/32", (or-so) -
and nothing else.

Now, I've got to locate quality
18V. batteries, or try to repair the
four that HF sent.

Lesson learned.

Ken .

I know a contractor that agrees that HF tools have, well, problems,
but he supplies his crew with them anyway because so many of his tools
get stolen by them. He says they are less inclined to steal crappy
tools than good ones and if they do it is no big loss.-Jitney

You do get what you pay for, as others have pointed out it may be
enough for the occasional use. In my case, I needed to cut a cast-iron
septic pipe and didn't have a sawzall at the time. So I paid the $30
or so for the cheap-o version and used it with the thought of: "if it
falls in, I'll just leave it there - no need to go 'fishing'". It
worked for that job, and a few others and finally the gearbox seized up
while doing some demolition work on an old deck.

On Mon 22 Nov 2004 08:36:21p, ender (Jeffrey J.
Kosowsky) wrote in :

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

I bought the recip saw. Actually it was on sale for 25$ when I needed one
for a garage project. I figured, if it does this one job it was worth it
and if I find myself using it a lot, I'll get a good one. It did the garage
job, then another one, then the bathroom remodel, then it helped tear down
the neighbor's old shed, and it still goes on and on.

I like having a reciprocating saw around so when it dies I'll upgrade, but
I don't feel bad about having bought this one.

I don't know if I'd trust 'em well enough to get something that's supposed
to be precise, like a sliding miter saw, though.

Dan

I have a cheap Chicago $49 router which works good. Great drill press for
$39. Lathe for $149 seems adequate since it does indeed spin. But serious
woodworkers (if that be you)need serious tools..... casual woodworkers (that
be me) can make do.
-opinions may vary.



"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

This is Turtle.

I have tried out their Chicago recept saw. It is a little bitty thing and is not
big at all. When cutting 2 -- 2" x 6" at one time it will drag down or jam for
second at times if you push it. You just can't push it hard. I have a regular
Porter Cable and will cut the 2 2X6 at one time with no effort at all. I've had
it about 3 months and have not burned it up yet. I only use it for lite cutting
or it being small to reach up in a hole to cut something. It is about 1/2 the
size of the regular Porter Cable saw.

They are on sale this week for $19.99 if you need to know.

All the Chicago tools are for lite cutting and not the get it on cutting. If
your doing lite cutting they usely work fairly well.

TURTLE

I tend to shy away from the Chicago Electric brand. I bought a drop light
and it fried the first time
I plugged it in. Took it back. Second one fried. Bought a heat gun.
Fried the first time I plugged it in.
Took it back. Second one fried as well. That said, I have their 4"
grinder and it seems to do the odd job
that I demand of it ok. I tend to think the Central Machinery brand is
better (have their floor standing drill press
and it works great) and I've been pretty happy with the Central Pneumatic
stuff. YMMV of course.
Cheers,
cc


"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

I've bought a bunch of stuff from Harbor Fright. Their Pittsburgh wrenches
are really sloppy, their flare wrenches are useless. Ended up pitching them
out.

Hint: Buy a couple things, and then sit and wait for the catalogs. Most of
thier stuff goes on half or third off, if you wait long enough. With some
patience, you can save a bundle.

I like their aluminum pipe wrenches. they also had some slip joint pliers
for turning pipes and nuts. They are really great. Their little yellow VOM
goes on sale now and again for 2.99 and I buy four or so. Not super precice,
but fits neatly into tool boxes and small spaces. I've also got some of
their Sawzall blades, which go smooth in a hurry. But for what I use, they
are OK.

I got two Drill Master drills in 12 volts. When the batteries go, I can wire
them to a lighter plug, and use them near the car, or off a 12 volt gel cell
jumper pack. Or buy more batteries. The Drill Masters are only 500 RPM, my
Makita is 1300 or so. But they are better than just OK for twenty bucks.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
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"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

Most of their tools are OK for occasional home use.

I have one of their:
Heat gun kit, and I use it a lot and think it's great and recommend.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47269

Router, for occasional use, and it's good too.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=33833

Hammer Drill, for occasional use, and it's OK. Would probably buy a
better one next time. I use it more as a regular drill so it gets
used more often than I intended to use it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45338

Belt Sander, for occasional use, and it's OK.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=90045

Jig Saw, for rare use, and would recommend avoiding.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46055

HVLP Paint gun, use it a lot and love it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46719

Air Compressor, use it a lot and like it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=90385

I also have one or two big wrenches from them that I use on really
rare occasions. I agree with previous posters to get better hand
tools (I buy Craftsman for that).

On 23 Nov 2004 07:09:14 -0800, (Childfree
Scott) scribbled this interesting note:

Most of their tools are OK for occasional home use.

I have one of their:
Heat gun kit, and I use it a lot and think it's great and recommend.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=47269

I bought one of these once. Paid $12.00 for it brand new from Harbor
Freight. The first one did not work at all so I returned it. The
second one worked for the length of the job and burned up. I then went
to a local surplus store that carries a lot of aircraft tools, router
bits, heat shrink (up to stuff that is three inches across and has
sealer inside), and bought a very good, used heat gun and paid three
times that much. This gun will give years of service, as opposed to
the H.F. heat gun.

HVLP Paint gun, use it a lot and love it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46719

I did once buy one of the HVLP paint guns with the two quart cup. This
one, to be specific:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=7902
It was stolen out of a house I was working on...along with about a
thousand dollars of other tools. But while I was using it I was happy
with the results.


Air Compressor, use it a lot and like it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=90385

The problem with this kind of Made in China compressor is, if it ever
needs any kind of servicing you may as well toss it on the curb as no
one seems to carry the parts for them. This tool, like most of the
H.F. Made in China tools are disposable.

This kind of air compressor, while much more expensive, will not only
give decades of good, daily service (and in fact, I've been told, are
rated to last 10,000 hours of use before needing service-that's eight
hours a day, five days a week, fifty-two weeks a year, for five years)
but are inexpensive to have serviced and usually only need a new
piston and cylinder, which costs about a hundred dollars.
http://www.bobstools.net/Store/Thomas.html
We recently took in a small collection of these compressors, including
one that is an antique (or at least about 25 years old) for service.
Each of them were repaired and the average cost per unit for repairs
was indeed about one hundred dollars. That compares favorably against
the revenue generated by using this kind of dependable equipment. Even
the stuff sold by Home Depot isn't of a very high quality when
compared to this kind of compressor. We did a kind of experiment one
time wherein we bought a Stanley-Bostich compressor. It lasted a month
or two before beginning to fail. Thomas compressors give years of
service. This is why we went back to Thomas. I still have a
Stanley-Bostich compressor. I keep it at home and use it to air up car
tires. It leaks down fast, leaks oil, has poor cfm, and really is kind
of useless for anything but airing up car tires!:~)

Oh, and why did we have a small collection of Thomas compressors to
have repaired? Because we've been using them for decades and
oftentimes didn't have time to take one in for repair and instead just
bought one or two new ones. When we had a good amount of slack time
after the damage from some unusually heavy hail storms had been
cleared away, we took all of them in for service. Now it is like we
have lots of new compressors to choose from.

It is up to the end user to decide which is more inexpensive...I know
which direction I incline to...


I also have one or two big wrenches from them that I use on really
rare occasions. I agree with previous posters to get better hand
tools (I buy Craftsman for that).

The best hand tool for the job depends on the job. Sometimes a
disposable wrench or other tool is exactly what the job calls for.

My mantra these days...You have to know which pennies to pinch!:~)


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

I bought a HF clone of a Bosch 1581 jigsaw for $59 USD,and have been very
satisfied with it. A Bosch would have cost me ~$100 more.

I compared it to one in my local Home Depot,it's exactly like the Bosch
1581.

The 1581 is just like the 1587 without the quick blade change;you need a
screwdriver instead.Variable speed,roller guide,uses Bosch blades,has the
air blower and the 4 position orbital control.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

The problem with this kind of Made in China compressor is, if it ever
needs any kind of servicing you may as well toss it on the curb as no
one seems to carry the parts for them. This tool, like most of the
H.F. Made in China tools are disposable.

This kind of air compressor, while much more expensive, will not only
give decades of good, daily service (and in fact, I've been told, are
rated to last 10,000 hours of use before needing service-that's eight
hours a day, five days a week, fifty-two weeks a year, for five years)
but are inexpensive to have serviced and usually only need a new
piston and cylinder, which costs about a hundred dollars.
http://www.bobstools.net/Store/Thomas.html
We recently took in a small collection of these compressors, including
one that is an antique (or at least about 25 years old) for service.
Each of them were repaired and the average cost per unit for repairs
was indeed about one hundred dollars. That compares favorably against
the revenue generated by using this kind of dependable equipment. Even
the stuff sold by Home Depot isn't of a very high quality when
compared to this kind of compressor. We did a kind of experiment one
time wherein we bought a Stanley-Bostich compressor. It lasted a month
or two before beginning to fail. Thomas compressors give years of
service. This is why we went back to Thomas. I still have a
Stanley-Bostich compressor. I keep it at home and use it to air up car
tires. It leaks down fast, leaks oil, has poor cfm, and really is kind
of useless for anything but airing up car tires!:~)

Oh, and why did we have a small collection of Thomas compressors to
have repaired? Because we've been using them for decades and
oftentimes didn't have time to take one in for repair and instead just
bought one or two new ones. When we had a good amount of slack time
after the damage from some unusually heavy hail storms had been
cleared away, we took all of them in for service. Now it is like we
have lots of new compressors to choose from.

Hence my comment about Harbor Freight tools being OK for occasional
home use. If you need tools for a business don't get them from Harbor
Freight.

I've had one really bad experience with Harbor Freight tools. I got a "great deal" on a 15 piece, 1/4 inch shank router bit set - about $25 or $30. I was using one of the bits to cut a pattern, and a piece of carbide came zinging off the bit. I chucked another bit from the set, and the same thing happened. I promptly took the remaining bits outside and put them in the trash. Lesson learned, no more cheap router bits.

However, I've had good luck with other tools they sell that are only for occasional use: heat gun, laminate router trimmer, 4" angle grinder, 4'x8' utility trailer (was a pain to assemble, but is a great value), and lots of hand tools (hammers, files, etc.).

I just bought a 7" benchtop tile cutter that I haven't used yet, but postings on other forums said it was a good value.

Also, two years ago I bought one of their General Machine brand wood lathes. I love it. The castings are identical to Jet's lathe that costs 4 times more, the quality of finish is good (the castings are actually cleaner than many Jet's I have seen), there is almost no vibration when it runs (you can stand a nickle on edge on the rails), and it was affordable. I did, however, go top-quality on my turning tools, and ended up spending more on a set of gouges than I did on the lathe.

Just curious, which HVLP Paint gun did you buy from Harbor Freight? I'm
thiinking of buying one of their turbine type sprayers (no air
compressor needed).

Tools are freedom. Good ones open up possibilities and can last a lifetime.

$29.95 is better spent on a good steak, cooked to your preference, with a
tall glass of ale.

Dave



"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

I like the steak idea. This is great advice. !!

I think we can all agree that tools are dangerous. Lower grade tools make
the jobs we do even more dangerous. For example, I would never consider a
lower grade saw. If you think about it as simply a safety issue, I think
the extra money is worth it to keep us out of the emergency room.

If you really need to a decent tool, and don't want to pay the money for it,
then rent a high-quality tool to do the job.


"Cox West" wrote in message
news:yJFod.340255$a85.175614@fed1read04...

Tools are freedom. Good ones open up possibilities and can last a
lifetime.

$29.95 is better spent on a good steak, cooked to your preference, with a
tall glass of ale.

Dave

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:36:21 GMT, ender (Jeffrey
J. Kosowsky) wrote:


What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
Against what? A Chicago Electric tool makes a great disposable tool.
IME it doesn't come close to a tool you will want to use for years or
even where you want it to perform the same after a year of service.

- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?
No, because you used the word 'serious'. If you are serious about
your work then start at least at the middle price range. I have some
CE tools and every time I use one I wonder, will it work today? Is
today the day it craps out? Can I tolerate the play in the movement
or that awful grinding sound as it turns?

If you use the tool on rare occasions and you are not concerned about
doing quality work (drilling screw holes in framing studs) then go for
it. If you want to do fine woodworking and not spend your time
working around the deficiencies of your tool but working with your
tool. Get a name brand.


Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?
Take a look at the latest FWW (no. 174, Winter 2004 Tools & Shops
issue). There is a good review article on 14.4 volt cordless drills.
They show the inside of two drills and how they are constructed to
show why there is a difference in price. Take a look at the difference
between the $90 drill and the $170 drill. Now try to imagine what the
inside of a $29.99 drill looks like.

TWS

buying from HF is great for somethings and bad or others, there abr clamps
are great, and if you watch for a sale you can get them for as little as
$3.99 for the 36" 3.49 for the 32" etc. and there pipe clamps are decent
too. There air tools have a decent reputation, I only have a stapler/brad
nailer but for $20 on sale can't complain, just wait to get them on sale,
there 4 1/2" angle grinders go on sale just about everyother week for $15
and last and seem to hold up really well, and for $15 your 2 or 3 just in
case. having said this DON'T buy and persision power tools! they wont be.
also you can't beat there prices on all the little things you need, like
the blue/green disposable gloves, or there storage bins, etc. but mostly
watch for there sales, also if you look on like and they have something on
sale there print it off and the store will honor the price


Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:

Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

I HAVE purchased from another company called Homier Distributors.
They are mobile merchants and set up a sale in a tent in different
towns. I have never been so dissatisfied with any other purchases.
Their stuff is total junk, and once they got your money, forget about
getting any help or being able to return defective items, or even
having an email returned. This is the worst company I have ever dealt
with. However, this same friend has also bought from Homier and says
he has gotten a few deals from them. Of course too, he just putters
around. I tend to really use tools, and those homier tools have all
broken within one day or less.

I might consider buying from Harbor Freight if I have access. I will
NEVER buy from Homier again.

I probably did not really answer your question, but this is just some
personal experience.

Mark


I have purchased hand tools from both Harbor Freight and Homier with decent
results. I also bought a 1/2" drill from Homier a few years back and it quit
the first time I used it. Unlike Marks experience, I had no problem getting it
replaced and the new one they sent is still working fine, although still not
top quality. I also bought a air compressor from Homier that ran for about a
year and quit. I got so used to having it around that I just went and bought a
better quality one, but I did get my money's worth out of the cheaper one. I
am still using the air tools I got from Homier with no problems. I can't
remember any power tools that I have bought from HF, but I do get their fliers
and I see their prices.

Bobby

Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".
snip
Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

I have a pair of HF14.4v cordless drills, which together cost less than a
new battery for my B&D FireStorm. ;-) They run out of "juice" quicker than
my B&D so I use them for drilling instead of screwing. But it's really
handy to chuck up three cordless drills, one straight bit to the desired
depth, one countersink, and one with a phillips or square drive. It's
quicker for me to pick up and set down three separate tools (with no cords
to get twisted & tangled g) than to use even my DW "Quick Flip"
Drill/Driver attachment.

Since the 14.4's are still on sale I may buy a couple more to be sure I have
a couple extra backup batteries (& chargers & drills g) that are all
interchangeable. When B&D "upgraded" my model drill to make the batteries
different the replacement battery price doubled.

IMO the HF 14.4's work ok for drilling & countersinking, but B&D / DW / ...
/ Milwaulkee / ... are needed for putting in screws.


--- Now for some philosophy --- g

I was in college 1977-82. I started as a mechanical engineering student but
switched to computer science my sophmore year.

(1) Increasing tooling allows greater precision.

One of the classes I had as an ME was "Intro. to Industrial Engineering." I
recall little from that class except this illustration from the very early
days of the "Industrial Revolution" that went more or less like this:

"I highly recommend Messer. _______ for the position of Chief Engineer
of your company. While in our employ Mr. _______ supervised and
directed the construction of a large steam engine. He did such a good
job that at no point could a worn shilling be inserted between the
piston and the cylinder wall."

The instructor then talked about current engine tolerances in small engines
such as model airplane engines being measured in thousandths of an inch.
"Engineering Excellence" of one era/application is a dismal failure in
another era/application.


(2) Tools reduce / negate human variation.

Once upon a time only *men* had the strength to swing the heavy sledge
hammers to drive railroad spikes and seat red-hot rivets. However men being
what men have always been, spent much of their time drinking and thinking
about sex, and the railroad spikes were not always driven in as deep as they
should have been and the rivets were not always seated. Structures failed
that *should* *not* have failed by the drawing board calculations. Failure
analysis found out the problems. Engineers strove to develop ways to take
the "human factor" out of these critical construction operations. (This
1910's-1940's information comes to me from my late father-in-law, Dr. R.F.
Branch, who ran Army aid stations in the Pacific in WWII and was the
physician who tied the dog tag on Earnie Pyle's toe. I really miss him
alot. We would BS for hours on end.)

The engineers developed a riveting gun that always completely seated the
rivets. In the personnel crunch of WWII it was discovered that "Rosie The
Riveter" could hold the tool just as well as any old Joe. ;-) Joe could go
get shot at and Rosie could build the equipment just as good a Joe could.
The machine took away the variability.


(3) *IF* the HF tools are primarily assembled by machines, they can be as
good as *anything* Sir Isaac Newton, Da Vinci, Einsten, DeWalt, ...., could
have possibly carved by hand. ;-)


I have my NOMEX undies on. Bring it on! g

-- Mark

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:07:23 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
scribbled this interesting note:

(3) *IF* the HF tools are primarily assembled by machines, they can be as
good as *anything* Sir Isaac Newton, Da Vinci, Einsten, DeWalt, ...., could
have possibly carved by hand. ;-)


lots of what if's in that sentence!:~)
(if, can, could, etc...)



--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

I don't think I would buy anything major from them unless you have a local
store
for returning defectives. Sometimes it is hard to predict in advance if the
quality will be adequate.
Much of their stuff is good enough for occasional use (most occasional users
are more likely to lose
tools from theft or drop damage than from wearing them out).
The average hobbyist/homeowner will use a piece of equipment a couple hours
a year, but using a really nice brand name piece is kind of cool, though, if
you can justify the extra 400% cost :)
bill

"Jeffrey J. Kosowsky" wrote in message
...
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

Chicago Electric, Ive heard they are Crap

90% of them are pure junk not fit for the intended purpose. The other
10% are OK for occassional use.

Forget these HF dregs and buy known quality tools that you can trust
and that will help you achieve quality work.

Chicago Electric is a brand name intended to decieve the consumer into
thinking these are made in the USA. Chicago Electric along with
Pittsburg Forge, and Central Pnuematic are farmed out to the lowest
cost/lowest quality manufacturers in China.

Buy quality and you'll only say ouch once. Buy this crap and you'll
curse and swear every time you use it and eventually get so frustrated
it'll go in the garbage can.


ender (Jeffrey J. Kosowsky) wrote in message ...
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks

davefr wrote:

90% of them are pure junk not fit for the intended purpose. The other
10% are OK for occassional use.

Forget these HF dregs and buy known quality tools that you can trust
and that will help you achieve quality work.

Chicago Electric is a brand name intended to decieve the consumer into
thinking these are made in the USA. Chicago Electric along with
Pittsburg Forge, and Central Pnuematic are farmed out to the lowest
cost/lowest quality manufacturers in China.

Buy quality and you'll only say ouch once. Buy this crap and you'll
curse and swear every time you use it and eventually get so frustrated
it'll go in the garbage can.


ender (Jeffrey J. Kosowsky) wrote in message
...
Harbor Freight seems to have some very attractively priced power
tools, particularly those under the "Chicago Electric Power".

What has been your experience with Harbor Freight in general and with
the Chicago Electric brand in particular?
- How does the quality and value stack up?
- If one is a serious hobbyist who doesn't have unlimited money to
spend on tools, is it better to buy fewer name-brand, high-priced
tools or go for a broader range of Chicago Electric brand tools to
fill out my home shop?

Presumably you never get something for nothing so I imagine the
quality of a 29.95 sawzall type tool can't be as good as a $200
Milwaukee version... but that being said, is it worth buying this
stuff?

Please share your experiences and advice from a hobbyist perspective
(I know that if you use your tools professionally 8+ hours/day then it
pays to buy the best).

Thanks


It all depends. It depends on what you are going to use it for, your skill
level, income, severity of use, etc. Take their cordless drills for
example. The 18v. is a very good tool for the occasional hobbist, home
use, etc.

You are right, the quality is not there, most of the time. But for those of
us who are beginning or occasional hobbists, there is no way we can justify
the added expense of "name brand." Speaking of which, A lot of stuff
Grizzly sells LOOKS an awful lot like the stuff from HF. Are you
suggesting a person buy Grizzly just because of the name? Just kidding!

If price were no issue and my skills warranted it, I would buy top of the
line everytime. However, as they say, this is not a perfect world.

Deb