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Old June 15th 21, 06:32 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Bad 3-Way Switch-- Again

Wade Garrett writes:
On 6/15/21 11:44 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Marilyn Manson writes:
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 10:54:31 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
A couple of years ago, I replaced a pair of little-used (and only during
the summer) standard 20 amp Leviton 3-way toggle light switches
controlling a Hunter Original ceiling fan because at least one of the
switches had failed.

I installed the same then-current model Levitons and everything worked
fine for a few years. And don't you know, at least one of them has just
now failed!

The original switches and the fan were installed during a room addition
construction project by a licensed electrician hired by the general
contractor whom we've used for years and does very good work.

What are the chances of this being just a random second switch failure
vs. needing to get an electrician out to check it over?
The chances are high that you've got a problem that should be
looked at.

Just for the sake of discussion, what problems can you think of that would
break a 3-way switch?

Obvious signs of arcing, loose connections, etc.


'nuf said.

Two failures on something as ultra-reliable as a Leviton switch?

Was the correct switch chosen for the application? Switching motor
loads isn't the normal job for a residential light switch.

What would be the right switch to use?

It's a 20 amp switch on a 20 amp circuit. There are several outlets on
that circuit-- but the fan is the only thing the switch controls. Hunter
says the fan draws 2 amps.


When you say 'failed', what do you mean? Does the switch physically
allow the toggle to move, or is it stuck? Does it move, but not close
the contacts (failed off) or move but not open the contacts (failed on)?

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Old June 15th 21, 07:01 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Bad 3-Way Switch-- Again



"Marilyn Manson" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 10:54:31 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
A couple of years ago, I replaced a pair of little-used (and only during
the summer) standard 20 amp Leviton 3-way toggle light switches
controlling a Hunter Original ceiling fan because at least one of the
switches had failed.

I installed the same then-current model Levitons and everything worked
fine for a few years. And don't you know, at least one of them has just
now failed!

The original switches and the fan were installed during a room addition
construction project by a licensed electrician hired by the general
contractor whom we've used for years and does very good work.

What are the chances of this being just a random second switch failure
vs. needing to get an electrician out to check it over?

The chances are high that you've got a problem that should be
looked at.


Just for the sake of discussion, what problems can you think of that would
break a 3-way switch?


Obvious signs of arcing, loose connections, etc. would certainly be
something to look for, but outside of that, e.g. if the switch has failed
mechanically, can you think of anything that could cause that?


It wasn’t made properly in the first place.

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Old June 15th 21, 07:39 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 804
Default Bad 3-Way Switch-- Again

On 6/15/21 1:32 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
On 6/15/21 11:44 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Marilyn Manson writes:
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 10:54:31 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
A couple of years ago, I replaced a pair of little-used (and only during
the summer) standard 20 amp Leviton 3-way toggle light switches
controlling a Hunter Original ceiling fan because at least one of the
switches had failed.

I installed the same then-current model Levitons and everything worked
fine for a few years. And don't you know, at least one of them has just
now failed!

The original switches and the fan were installed during a room addition
construction project by a licensed electrician hired by the general
contractor whom we've used for years and does very good work.

What are the chances of this being just a random second switch failure
vs. needing to get an electrician out to check it over?
The chances are high that you've got a problem that should be
looked at.

Just for the sake of discussion, what problems can you think of that would
break a 3-way switch?

Obvious signs of arcing, loose connections, etc.

'nuf said.

Two failures on something as ultra-reliable as a Leviton switch?

Was the correct switch chosen for the application? Switching motor
loads isn't the normal job for a residential light switch.

What would be the right switch to use?

It's a 20 amp switch on a 20 amp circuit. There are several outlets on
that circuit-- but the fan is the only thing the switch controls. Hunter
says the fan draws 2 amps.


When you say 'failed', what do you mean? Does the switch physically
allow the toggle to move, or is it stuck? Does it move, but not close
the contacts (failed off) or move but not open the contacts (failed on)?

The fan only turns if the A switch and the B switch are both in the DOWN
position.

The fan does not turn with any if the other possible combinations of UPs
and DOWNs.
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Old June 15th 21, 07:53 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 14,142
Default Bad 3-Way Switch-- Again

On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 15:44:09 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Marilyn Manson writes:
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 10:54:31 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
A couple of years ago, I replaced a pair of little-used (and only during
the summer) standard 20 amp Leviton 3-way toggle light switches
controlling a Hunter Original ceiling fan because at least one of the
switches had failed.

I installed the same then-current model Levitons and everything worked
fine for a few years. And don't you know, at least one of them has just
now failed!

The original switches and the fan were installed during a room addition
construction project by a licensed electrician hired by the general
contractor whom we've used for years and does very good work.

What are the chances of this being just a random second switch failure
vs. needing to get an electrician out to check it over?
The chances are high that you've got a problem that should be
looked at.


Just for the sake of discussion, what problems can you think of that would
break a 3-way switch?

Obvious signs of arcing, loose connections, etc.


'nuf said.

Two failures on something as ultra-reliable as a Leviton switch?

Was the correct switch chosen for the application? Switching motor
loads isn't the normal job for a residential light switch.


I would agree if he didn't say "20a". Those are usually spec or
commercial grade and they will be listed for motor loads. It will be
marked on the switch body or yoke.
If this is the Chinese dollar bin specials, 2 bad ones would not shock
me (no pun intended)
  #15   Report Post  
Old June 15th 21, 07:58 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 15,560
Default Lonely Auto-contradicting Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 04:01:27 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



Just for the sake of discussion, what problems can you think of that would
break a 3-way switch?


Obvious signs of arcing, loose connections, etc. would certainly be
something to look for, but outside of that, e.g. if the switch has failed
mechanically, can you think of anything that could cause that?


It wasn˘t made properly in the first place.


BRILLIANT! Senilely brilliant, again! BG

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp about trolling senile cretin Rodent Speed:
"Thick pillock!"
MID:


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Old June 15th 21, 08:02 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 10
Default Bad 3-Way Switch-- Again

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 2:39:13 PM UTC-4, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 6/15/21 1:32 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
On 6/15/21 11:44 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Marilyn Manson writes:
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 10:54:31 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
A couple of years ago, I replaced a pair of little-used (and only during
the summer) standard 20 amp Leviton 3-way toggle light switches
controlling a Hunter Original ceiling fan because at least one of the
switches had failed.

I installed the same then-current model Levitons and everything worked
fine for a few years. And don't you know, at least one of them has just
now failed!

The original switches and the fan were installed during a room addition
construction project by a licensed electrician hired by the general
contractor whom we've used for years and does very good work.

What are the chances of this being just a random second switch failure
vs. needing to get an electrician out to check it over?
The chances are high that you've got a problem that should be
looked at.

Just for the sake of discussion, what problems can you think of that would
break a 3-way switch?

Obvious signs of arcing, loose connections, etc.

'nuf said.

Two failures on something as ultra-reliable as a Leviton switch?

Was the correct switch chosen for the application? Switching motor
loads isn't the normal job for a residential light switch.

What would be the right switch to use?

It's a 20 amp switch on a 20 amp circuit. There are several outlets on
that circuit-- but the fan is the only thing the switch controls. Hunter
says the fan draws 2 amps.


When you say 'failed', what do you mean? Does the switch physically
allow the toggle to move, or is it stuck? Does it move, but not close
the contacts (failed off) or move but not open the contacts (failed on)?

The fan only turns if the A switch and the B switch are both in the DOWN
position.

The fan does not turn with any if the other possible combinations of UPs
and DOWNs.


So it's a 3-way switch, meaning you can turn the fan on or off from either of two locations?

And it did work for some years, but now you need to have both switches on for it to work?

I've had that happen with a light, and replacing the switch fixed it. I don't see any reason a special switch would be needed.

I think you probably just had a switch go bad. But I would check that the connection wires inside the box were still solid. If one slipped loose I think you might get that.


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Old June 15th 21, 08:02 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 14,142
Default Bad 3-Way Switch-- Again

On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 14:39:07 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

On 6/15/21 1:32 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
On 6/15/21 11:44 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Marilyn Manson writes:
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 10:54:31 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
A couple of years ago, I replaced a pair of little-used (and only during
the summer) standard 20 amp Leviton 3-way toggle light switches
controlling a Hunter Original ceiling fan because at least one of the
switches had failed.

I installed the same then-current model Levitons and everything worked
fine for a few years. And don't you know, at least one of them has just
now failed!

The original switches and the fan were installed during a room addition
construction project by a licensed electrician hired by the general
contractor whom we've used for years and does very good work.

What are the chances of this being just a random second switch failure
vs. needing to get an electrician out to check it over?
The chances are high that you've got a problem that should be
looked at.

Just for the sake of discussion, what problems can you think of that would
break a 3-way switch?

Obvious signs of arcing, loose connections, etc.

'nuf said.

Two failures on something as ultra-reliable as a Leviton switch?

Was the correct switch chosen for the application? Switching motor
loads isn't the normal job for a residential light switch.

What would be the right switch to use?

It's a 20 amp switch on a 20 amp circuit. There are several outlets on
that circuit-- but the fan is the only thing the switch controls. Hunter
says the fan draws 2 amps.


When you say 'failed', what do you mean? Does the switch physically
allow the toggle to move, or is it stuck? Does it move, but not close
the contacts (failed off) or move but not open the contacts (failed on)?

The fan only turns if the A switch and the B switch are both in the DOWN
position.

The fan does not turn with any if the other possible combinations of UPs
and DOWNs.


We are assuming it worked OK for a while and quit, you do seem to have
one switch that is not switching. Do they both feel the same when you
operate them?
The other possibility is a bad connection on one of the travelers. Did
they use the screws or stabbed
  #18   Report Post  
Old June 15th 21, 08:22 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: May 2021
Posts: 91
Default Bad 3-Way Switch-- Again

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 3:03:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 14:39:07 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:
On 6/15/21 1:32 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
On 6/15/21 11:44 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Marilyn Manson writes:
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 10:54:31 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
A couple of years ago, I replaced a pair of little-used (and only during
the summer) standard 20 amp Leviton 3-way toggle light switches
controlling a Hunter Original ceiling fan because at least one of the
switches had failed.

I installed the same then-current model Levitons and everything worked
fine for a few years. And don't you know, at least one of them has just
now failed!

The original switches and the fan were installed during a room addition
construction project by a licensed electrician hired by the general
contractor whom we've used for years and does very good work.

What are the chances of this being just a random second switch failure
vs. needing to get an electrician out to check it over?
The chances are high that you've got a problem that should be
looked at.

Just for the sake of discussion, what problems can you think of that would
break a 3-way switch?

Obvious signs of arcing, loose connections, etc.

'nuf said.

Two failures on something as ultra-reliable as a Leviton switch?

Was the correct switch chosen for the application? Switching motor
loads isn't the normal job for a residential light switch.

What would be the right switch to use?

It's a 20 amp switch on a 20 amp circuit. There are several outlets on
that circuit-- but the fan is the only thing the switch controls. Hunter
says the fan draws 2 amps.

When you say 'failed', what do you mean? Does the switch physically
allow the toggle to move, or is it stuck? Does it move, but not close
the contacts (failed off) or move but not open the contacts (failed on)?

The fan only turns if the A switch and the B switch are both in the DOWN
position.

The fan does not turn with any if the other possible combinations of UPs
and DOWNs.

We are assuming it worked OK for a while and quit, you do seem to have
one switch that is not switching. Do they both feel the same when you
operate them?
The other possibility is a bad connection on one of the travelers. Did
they use the screws or stabbed


Does Leviton even make back-stabbed 3-way switches? I wouldn't expect
a 20A spec or commercial grade switch to have back-stabbed holes available.

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Old June 15th 21, 08:41 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Bad 3-Way Switch-- Again

On 6/15/21 3:22 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 3:03:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 14:39:07 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:
On 6/15/21 1:32 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
On 6/15/21 11:44 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Marilyn Manson writes:
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 10:54:31 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
A couple of years ago, I replaced a pair of little-used (and only during
the summer) standard 20 amp Leviton 3-way toggle light switches
controlling a Hunter Original ceiling fan because at least one of the
switches had failed.

I installed the same then-current model Levitons and everything worked
fine for a few years. And don't you know, at least one of them has just
now failed!

The original switches and the fan were installed during a room addition
construction project by a licensed electrician hired by the general
contractor whom we've used for years and does very good work.

What are the chances of this being just a random second switch failure
vs. needing to get an electrician out to check it over?
The chances are high that you've got a problem that should be
looked at.

Just for the sake of discussion, what problems can you think of that would
break a 3-way switch?

Obvious signs of arcing, loose connections, etc.

'nuf said.

Two failures on something as ultra-reliable as a Leviton switch?

Was the correct switch chosen for the application? Switching motor
loads isn't the normal job for a residential light switch.

What would be the right switch to use?

It's a 20 amp switch on a 20 amp circuit. There are several outlets on
that circuit-- but the fan is the only thing the switch controls. Hunter
says the fan draws 2 amps.

When you say 'failed', what do you mean? Does the switch physically
allow the toggle to move, or is it stuck? Does it move, but not close
the contacts (failed off) or move but not open the contacts (failed on)?

The fan only turns if the A switch and the B switch are both in the DOWN
position.

The fan does not turn with any if the other possible combinations of UPs
and DOWNs.

We are assuming it worked OK for a while and quit, you do seem to have
one switch that is not switching. Do they both feel the same when you
operate them?
The other possibility is a bad connection on one of the travelers. Did
they use the screws or stabbed


Does Leviton even make back-stabbed 3-way switches? I wouldn't expect
a 20A spec or commercial grade switch to have back-stabbed holes available.


Yes they do.

See https://www.leviton.com/en/products/1223-lhw

"20 Amp, 120 Volt, Toggle Lighted Handle - Illuminated OFF 3-Way AC
Quiet Switch, Industrial Grade, Self Grounding, Back & Side Wired, - White"
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Old June 15th 21, 09:03 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 91
Default Bad 3-Way Switch-- Again

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 3:41:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On 6/15/21 3:22 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote:
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 3:03:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 14:39:07 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:
On 6/15/21 1:32 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
On 6/15/21 11:44 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Marilyn Manson writes:
On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 10:54:31 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Wade Garrett writes:
A couple of years ago, I replaced a pair of little-used (and only during
the summer) standard 20 amp Leviton 3-way toggle light switches
controlling a Hunter Original ceiling fan because at least one of the
switches had failed.

I installed the same then-current model Levitons and everything worked
fine for a few years. And don't you know, at least one of them has just
now failed!

The original switches and the fan were installed during a room addition
construction project by a licensed electrician hired by the general
contractor whom we've used for years and does very good work.

What are the chances of this being just a random second switch failure
vs. needing to get an electrician out to check it over?
The chances are high that you've got a problem that should be
looked at.

Just for the sake of discussion, what problems can you think of that would
break a 3-way switch?

Obvious signs of arcing, loose connections, etc.

'nuf said.

Two failures on something as ultra-reliable as a Leviton switch?

Was the correct switch chosen for the application? Switching motor
loads isn't the normal job for a residential light switch.

What would be the right switch to use?

It's a 20 amp switch on a 20 amp circuit. There are several outlets on
that circuit-- but the fan is the only thing the switch controls. Hunter
says the fan draws 2 amps.

When you say 'failed', what do you mean? Does the switch physically
allow the toggle to move, or is it stuck? Does it move, but not close
the contacts (failed off) or move but not open the contacts (failed on)?

The fan only turns if the A switch and the B switch are both in the DOWN
position.

The fan does not turn with any if the other possible combinations of UPs
and DOWNs.
We are assuming it worked OK for a while and quit, you do seem to have
one switch that is not switching. Do they both feel the same when you
operate them?
The other possibility is a bad connection on one of the travelers. Did
they use the screws or stabbed


Does Leviton even make back-stabbed 3-way switches? I wouldn't expect
a 20A spec or commercial grade switch to have back-stabbed holes available.

Yes they do.

See https://www.leviton.com/en/products/1223-lhw

"20 Amp, 120 Volt, Toggle Lighted Handle - Illuminated OFF 3-Way AC
Quiet Switch, Industrial Grade, Self Grounding, Back & Side Wired, - White"


Back wired is not the same as back-stabbed.

Back wired often (usually, these days?) means that the wire is inserted under
a plate from the back of the device and the screw is then tightened, securing
the wire.

Back-stabbed means that there is a hole in the back of the device that contains
a sharp metal tab that bends as the wire is inserted and then digs into the wire
to hold it in place. They are known to be problematic.

The 1223-LHW has the plate, therefore it is not a back-stab device.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...447190#overlay


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