OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans’ No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a “never seen before”
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who “has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.”

“Remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,” Ms. Cheney
said. “I will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former president’s crusade to undermine our
democracy.”

The Wyoming Republican’s remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a “turning point”
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.

On 5/11/2021 9:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a €œnever seen before€�
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who €œhas resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.€�

€œRemaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,€� Ms. Cheney
said. €œI will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former presidents crusade to undermine our
democracy.€�

The Wyoming Republicans remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a €œturning point€�
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.


So, she has ethics? Morals? We need more politicians like her. Good
for her.

On 5/11/2021 6:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a €œnever seen before€�
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who €œhas resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.€�

€œRemaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,€� Ms. Cheney
said. €œI will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former presidents crusade to undermine our
democracy.€�

The Wyoming Republicans remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a €œturning point€�
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.


If it's a secret vote, she will probably survive it, just like the last
such vote. Many Repub politicians know she is right. They would only
vote to remove her if they are worried about trump voters finding out.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 11 May 2021 18:31:23 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 5/11/2021 6:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans’ No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a “never seen before”
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who “has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.”

“Remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,” Ms. Cheney
said. “I will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former president’s crusade to undermine our
democracy.”

I just heard her say this, on the radio, and I hate to say it but when I
read it and said it in my head, it sounded better. More convincing.

She doesn't have a strong voice. (although if she got this far, I
suppose voters and Reps didn't judge against her for that.)

The Wyoming Republican’s remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a “turning point”
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.


If it's a secret vote, she will probably survive it, just like the last
such vote. Many Repub politicians know she is right. They would only
vote to remove her if they are worried about trump voters finding out.

I heard after I first posted that there was a meeting in advance, whhere
people will talk and surely disclose how they are (as far as others are
concerned**) planning to vote. But iiuc all 210 or so Reps. get to vote
and they won't all have time to talk

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/04/p...ner/index.html
"At the special meeting [May 12], the members can then bring up a
resolution to remove Cheney. If two-thirds of the conference -- 142
members -- want, they can immediately vote. Otherwise, the petition
would be referred to a committee that can then either report the
petition to the conference for a full vote or kill the resolution.
Any leadership vote is a secret ballot cast behind closed doors. "

So it could just be sent to committee! but no one thinks that's going
to happen. So the vote apparently is as secret as the last time. And
the pundits on both side think the vote will go the other way from last
time? What's changed? She's still right. Are there no young
republicans who wouldn't be given time to speak anyhow? I guess there
are but she needs 50% of the vote (more or less depending on whether the
vote is about whether to fire her or to retain her.)

So she needs 106 o 107 votes or so.


**Not that anyone would pretend to be on one side and vote the other
way. No one would ever do that.

On 05/11/2021 07:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

So, she has ethics? Morals? We need more politicians like her. Good
for her.

She is also the old guard. Do you think the people attempting to reshape
the Republican party have no ethics or morals?

I've always been an independent and the current party that come closest
to my opinions is the American Solidarity Party, a minuscule group not
even on the ballot in most states. I have no interest in the party of
Bush, McCain, Cheney, Romney and so forth. Whether the Republicans can
reshape themselves and retain voters remains to be seen.

On Tue, 11 May 2021 21:21:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/11/2021 9:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans’ No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a “never seen before”
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who “has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.”

“Remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,” Ms. Cheney
said. “I will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former president’s crusade to undermine our
democracy.”

The Wyoming Republican’s remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a “turning point”
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.


So, she has ethics? Morals? We need more politicians like her. Good
for her.

I disagree with Liz Cheney on almost everything she has ever done in
politics, but I admire and respect her willingness to stand up for the
truth. We definitely need more politicians who demonstrate that quality.

On Tue, 11 May 2021 22:29:24 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


She is also the old guard. Do you think the people attempting to reshape
the Republican party have no ethics or morals?

I've always been an independent

You've always been a legend in your own senile mind ...but you are ONLY a
real miserable senile gossip, senile Yankietard! ;-)

On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 9:31:29 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 5/11/2021 6:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a €œnever seen before€�
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who €œhas resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.€�

€œRemaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,€� Ms. Cheney
said. €œI will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former presidents crusade to undermine our
democracy.€�

The Wyoming Republicans remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a €œturning point€�
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.

If it's a secret vote, she will probably survive it, just like the last
such vote. Many Repub politicians know she is right. They would only
vote to remove her if they are worried about trump voters finding out.

Yes, I thought about that possibility too. It's some kind of test as to something,
but I'm not sure what. They could know she's right, but still want to get
rid of her because they don't want it to be disruptive to their re-election.. It's
not about what's right or wrong for most of them, only what's good or bad for
them. I think she's going.

On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 10:16:06 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 11 May 2021 18:31:23 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 5/11/2021 6:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a €œnever seen before€�
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who €œhas resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.€�

€œRemaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,€� Ms. Cheney
said. €œI will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former presidents crusade to undermine our
democracy.€�
I just heard her say this, on the radio, and I hate to say it but when I
read it and said it in my head, it sounded better. More convincing.

She doesn't have a strong voice. (although if she got this far, I
suppose voters and Reps didn't judge against her for that.)
The Wyoming Republicans remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a €œturning point€�
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.


If it's a secret vote, she will probably survive it, just like the last
such vote. Many Repub politicians know she is right. They would only
vote to remove her if they are worried about trump voters finding out.
I heard after I first posted that there was a meeting in advance, whhere
people will talk and surely disclose how they are (as far as others are
concerned**) planning to vote. But iiuc all 210 or so Reps. get to vote
and they won't all have time to talk

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/04/p...ner/index.html
"At the special meeting [May 12], the members can then bring up a
resolution to remove Cheney. If two-thirds of the conference -- 142
members -- want, they can immediately vote. Otherwise, the petition
would be referred to a committee that can then either report the
petition to the conference for a full vote or kill the resolution.
Any leadership vote is a secret ballot cast behind closed doors. "

So it could just be sent to committee! but no one thinks that's going
to happen. So the vote apparently is as secret as the last time. And
the pundits on both side think the vote will go the other way from last
time? What's changed? She's still right.

It's not about right or wrong. It's about her being eager to talk about the
stolen election lie, Trump being responsible for the insurrection publicly.
The vast majority of Republican politicians at least don't want to keep hearing
about it, as it's divisive and distracting from their agenda and many are
supportive of the lies. She's at war with the party leader, Trump. What has
changed is it's now months later and most Republicans in the House probably
have had enough.






Are there no young
republicans who wouldn't be given time to speak anyhow? I guess there
are but she needs 50% of the vote (more or less depending on whether the
vote is about whether to fire her or to retain her.)

Young? Age doesn't have anything to do with it. It's just that the vast majority
of Republican politicians, young and old, have chosen Trump and his lies as
their future.




So she needs 106 o 107 votes or so.


**Not that anyone would pretend to be on one side and vote the other
way. No one would ever do that.

On 5/12/2021 12:29 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/11/2021 07:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

So, she has ethics? Morals?Â* We need more politicians like her.Â* Good
for her.

She is also the old guard. Do you think the people attempting to reshape
the Republican party have no ethics or morals?


Too many have lost their ethics and following Dear Leader into the
dumpster. They don't have the balls to contradict him.

On 5/12/2021 12:33 AM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 11 May 2021 21:21:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/11/2021 9:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a €œnever seen before€�
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who €œhas resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.€�

€œRemaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,€� Ms. Cheney
said. €œI will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former presidents crusade to undermine our
democracy.€�

The Wyoming Republicans remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a €œturning point€�
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.


So, she has ethics? Morals? We need more politicians like her. Good
for her.

I disagree with Liz Cheney on almost everything she has ever done in
politics, but I admire and respect her willingness to stand up for the
truth. We definitely need more politicians who demonstrate that quality.

Of course you, micky, traitor admire a fellow sufferer of TDS.

On 5/12/2021 7:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 9:31:29 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 5/11/2021 6:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a €œnever seen before€�
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who €œhas resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.€�

€œRemaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,€� Ms. Cheney
said. €œI will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former presidents crusade to undermine our
democracy.€�

The Wyoming Republicans remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a €œturning point€�
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.

If it's a secret vote, she will probably survive it, just like the last
such vote. Many Repub politicians know she is right. They would only
vote to remove her if they are worried about trump voters finding out.

Yes, I thought about that possibility too. It's some kind of test as to something,
but I'm not sure what. They could know she's right, but still want to get
rid of her because they don't want it to be disruptive to their re-election. It's
not about what's right or wrong for most of them, only what's good or bad for
them. I think she's going.


I suspect her TDS is derived from Trump's statements about what a
mistake our middle East involvement was due in large part because of her
father.

I agree with those that think the republican party should be a big tent
but her TDS not only extends to Trump but all his supporters. So, she
should go from leadership but is still welcome as a congressman.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 11 May 2021 22:15:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 11 May 2021 18:31:23 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 5/11/2021 6:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans’ No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a “never seen before”
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who “has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.”

“Remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,” Ms. Cheney
said. “I will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former president’s crusade to undermine our
democracy.”

I just heard her say this, on the radio, and I hate to say it but when I
read it and said it in my head, it sounded better. More convincing.

I think Liz Cheney is sincere without an ulterior motive or even a plan,
but I think if Stumpie runs for prez, so will she (you heard it here
first), and she'll be even harsher than she was (though that might be
50% projecting what I would want to do). That is, going well beyond the
insurrection and including almost everything, including extorting
Zelensky, Trump University, ridiculing the handicapped reporter,
insulting the Gold Star parents, lying about the Boy Scout speech, lying
about the 3 steel-mills he claimed had been built iirc in Penna., which
would lead to every other economic lie he told, which leads to all the
other lies about his alleged accomplishements.***

Today on 1-A (or A-1?), they played her whole words from yesterday and
though her voice wasn't better, the content of her first sentence or
two, that I had not heard before, was very compelling. The fact that it
included personal experiences that most have not had, that most have not
sought, especially the first one. The first sentence was about her
being in Kenya years ago on election day...

Here it is:

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts...te-to-oust-her
Liz Cheney: (00:00)
Tonight I rise to discuss freedom and our constitutional duty to protect
it. Mr. Speaker, I have been privileged to see firsthand how powerful
and how fragile freedom is. 28 years ago, I stood outside a polling
place, a schoolhouse in Western Kenya. Soldiers had chased away people
who were lined up to vote. A few hours later, they came streaming back
in, risking further attack undaunted in their determination to exercise
their right to vote. In 1992, I sat across the table from a young mayor
in [inaudible 00:00:40] Russia, and I listened to him talk of his dream
of liberating his nation from communism. Years later, for his dedication
to the cause of freedom, Boris Nemtsov was assassinated by Vladimir
Putin’s thugs.

Liz Cheney: (00:55)
In Warsaw in 1990, I listened to a young Polish woman tell me that her
greatest fear was that people would forget. They would forget what it
was like to live under Soviet domination. That they would forget the
price of freedom. Three men, an immigrant who escaped Castro’s
totalitarian regime, a young man who grew up behind the iron curtain and
became his country’s minister of defense, and a dissident who spent
years in the Soviet Gulag have all told me it was the miracle of America
captured in the words of President Ronald Reagan that inspired them.

Liz Cheney: (01:36)
And I have seen the power of faith and freedom. I listened to the Pope
John Paul II speak to thousands in Nairobi in 1985, and 19 years later,
I watched that same Pope take my father’s hands, look in his eyes and
say, “God bless America.” God has blessed America, Mr. Speaker, but our
freedom only survives if we protect it. If we honor our oath taken
before God in this chamber to support and defend the constitution. If we
recognize threats to freedom when they arise.

This is where the radio excerpts I heard started:

Liz Cheney: (02:17)
Today we face a threat America has never seen before. A former president
who provoked a violent attack on this capital in an effort to steal the
election has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that
the election was stolen from him. He risks inciting further violence.
Millions of Americans have been misled by the former president. They
have heard only his words, but not the truth as he continues to
undermine our democratic process, sowing seeds of doubt about whether
democracy really works at all......


She doesn't have a strong voice.

Do you all know what I mean? Have you heard her?

More about this later, maybe.

(although if she got this far, I
suppose voters and Reps didn't judge against her for that.)

The Wyoming Republican’s remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a “turning point”
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.


If it's a secret vote, she will probably survive it, just like the last
such vote. Many Repub politicians know she is right. They would only
vote to remove her if they are worried about trump voters finding out.

I heard after I first posted that there was a meeting in advance, whhere
people will talk and surely disclose how they are (as far as others are
concerned**) planning to vote. But iiuc all 210 or so Reps. get to vote
and they won't all have time to talk

And you may all know by now that the meeting lasted less than 20
minutes, and she was out by a voice vote. -- I wonder if they look
around and try to note everyone who votes to keep her. Or if they watch
the ones they weren't sure of, or if the votes to keep her were so few
they could notice all 2 of them, for example.

The meeting was so quick, some had not even arrived yet.

And she's out.



***I wish she could bring in being a draft-dodger but since she can't
fully prove it, it would probably hurt her credibiility. Because one
would think all these gun-totin' patriotic 'mericans would be disgusted
by and unforgiving towards a draft dodger. I avoided the draft too,
but legally. And when I did it, I thought it would hurt my political
plans. They were only weak and speculative, but I still thought about
about how voters would react to my not serving, and I didn't think it
would be anything but bad.


So it could just be sent to committee! but no one thinks that's going
to happen.

It's amazing to me how often press predictions are correct. (although
thyey didn't predict a voice vote.)

So the vote apparently is as secret as the last time. And
the pundits on both side think the vote will go the other way from last
time? What's changed? She's still right. Are there no young
republicans who wouldn't be given time to speak anyhow? I guess there
are but she needs 50% of the vote (more or less depending on whether the
vote is about whether to fire her or to retain her.)

So she needs 106 o 107 votes or so.


**Not that anyone would pretend to be on one side and vote the other
way. No one would ever do that.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 12 May 2021 05:07:57 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:


So it could just be sent to committee! but no one thinks that's going
to happen. So the vote apparently is as secret as the last time. And
the pundits on both side think the vote will go the other way from last
time? What's changed? She's still right.

It's not about right or wrong. It's about her being eager to talk about the
stolen election lie,

I can't keep track and in this case I probably never had enough
information, but I had the impression, or maybe just that I would think
that her attacks on him have always followed some participating/meddling
in politics by him. Is that accurate, afayr

OTOH, if that were the situation, I myself would have raised it prior to
this vote. OTOH, maybe she thinks they'll think it irrelevant since
that wouldn't make him stop, he's not going to stop. It would be a
moral defense "he started it!", but not a practical one, since like you
say, they just want her to stop. I'm sure some want him to stop, but
they can't stop him.

I find it hard to believe that most Republican congressmen weren't
idealistic, patriotic people when they first ran for office, or at least
when they were children. I wonder when they beoame "pragmatists" who
would sell out the idea of honest elections and respect for the courts.
I wonder if it's her father and their relationship that keeps her
steady.




Trump being responsible for the insurrection publicly.
The vast majority of Republican politicians at least don't want to keep hearing
about it, as it's divisive and distracting from their agenda and many are
supportive of the lies. She's at war with the party leader, Trump. What has
changed is it's now months later and most Republicans in the House probably
have had enough.

On Tue, 11 May 2021 21:14:16 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest...


In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans? No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a ?never seen before?
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who ?has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.?

?Remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,? Ms. Cheney
said. ?I will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former president?s crusade to undermine our
democracy.?

The Wyoming Republican?s remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a ?turning point?
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.

In this group who the heck cares?

--
Tekkie

"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 12 May 2021 05:07:57 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:


So it could just be sent to committee! but no one thinks that's going
to happen. So the vote apparently is as secret as the last time. And
the pundits on both side think the vote will go the other way from last
time? What's changed? She's still right.

It's not about right or wrong. It's about her being eager to talk about
the
stolen election lie,

I can't keep track and in this case I probably never had enough
information, but I had the impression, or maybe just that I would think
that her attacks on him have always followed some participating/meddling
in politics by him. Is that accurate, afayr

OTOH, if that were the situation, I myself would have raised it prior to
this vote. OTOH, maybe she thinks they'll think it irrelevant since
that wouldn't make him stop, he's not going to stop. It would be a
moral defense "he started it!", but not a practical one, since like you
say, they just want her to stop. I'm sure some want him to stop, but
they can't stop him.

I find it hard to believe that most Republican congressmen weren't
idealistic, patriotic people when they first ran for office, or at least
when they were children. I wonder when they beoame "pragmatists" who
would sell out the idea of honest elections and respect for the courts.

Likely when they found their job was on the line every 2 or 6 years.

I wonder if it's her father and their relationship that keeps her steady.

More likely she was borne that way.

Trump being responsible for the insurrection publicly.
The vast majority of Republican politicians at least don't want to keep
hearing
about it, as it's divisive and distracting from their agenda and many are
supportive of the lies. She's at war with the party leader, Trump. What
has
changed is it's now months later and most Republicans in the House
probably
have had enough.

On Thu, 13 May 2021 08:22:15 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

On 5/12/2021 4:53 PM, Tekkie� wrote:

On Tue, 11 May 2021 21:14:16 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest...


In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans? No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a ?never seen before?
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who ?has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.?

?Remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,? Ms. Cheney
said. ?I will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former president?s crusade to undermine our
democracy.?

The Wyoming Republican?s remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a ?turning point?
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.

In this group who the heck cares?


Crocodile tears are shed by all of them.

On 5/12/2021 7:29 AM, Frank wrote:

Of course you, micky, traitor admire a fellow sufferer of TDS.

And every thing you post verifies your terminal case of trumpTard Syndrome.

On 5/12/21 10:44 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 5/12/2021 7:29 AM, Frank wrote:

Of course you, micky, traitor admire a fellow sufferer of TDS.

And every thing you post verifies your terminal case of trumpTard Syndrome.


President Trump speaks the truth. Check this out:

BREAKING: Maricopa County Officials Caught in Huge Fraud

Breaking Update: Maricopa County deleted a directory full of election databases from the 2020 election cycle days before the election equipment was delivered to the audit. This is spoliation
of evidence! pic.twitter.com/mY0fmmFXAm

€” Maricopa Arizona Audit (@ArizonaAudit) May 13, 2021


https://populist.press/breaking-mari...in-huge-fraud/

Democrats are criminals.

On Wednesday, May 12, 2021 at 10:29:32 AM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 5/12/2021 12:33 AM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 11 May 2021 21:21:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/11/2021 9:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a €œnever seen before€�
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who €œhas resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.€�

€œRemaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,€� Ms. Cheney
said. €œI will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former presidents crusade to undermine our
democracy.€�

The Wyoming Republicans remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a €œturning point€�
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.


So, she has ethics? Morals? We need more politicians like her. Good
for her.

I disagree with Liz Cheney on almost everything she has ever done in
politics, but I admire and respect her willingness to stand up for the
truth. We definitely need more politicians who demonstrate that quality..

Of course you, micky, traitor admire a fellow sufferer of TDS.

The ones with TDS are the fools still following Trump down the toilet,
believing his absurd lies, believing he is the future of their party.
He lost the WH, the House, the Senate. He even turned those Georgia
Senate races into another referendum on himself and what the voters
of Georgia, a red state, wanted. They defeated him again. Continuing
down that path is the truly deranged. I see a lot more losing for you
and the country in the future.

On Wednesday, May 12, 2021 at 10:36:13 AM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 5/12/2021 7:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 9:31:29 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 5/11/2021 6:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a €œnever seen before€�
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who €œhas resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.€�

€œRemaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,€� Ms. Cheney
said. €œI will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former presidents crusade to undermine our
democracy.€�

The Wyoming Republicans remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a €œturning point€�
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.

If it's a secret vote, she will probably survive it, just like the last
such vote. Many Repub politicians know she is right. They would only
vote to remove her if they are worried about trump voters finding out.

Yes, I thought about that possibility too. It's some kind of test as to something,
but I'm not sure what. They could know she's right, but still want to get
rid of her because they don't want it to be disruptive to their re-election. It's
not about what's right or wrong for most of them, only what's good or bad for
them. I think she's going.

I suspect her TDS is derived from Trump's statements about what a
mistake our middle East involvement was due in large part because of her
father.

Right. It has nothing to do with his two impeachments, his despicable
lies about a stolen election that attacked the very core of our democracy
and lead directly to an insurrection. It has nothing to do with the fact that
Trump lead to the loss of the WH, Senate and House in just four years.
It has nothing to do with Trump turning the Georgia elections into another
referendum on himself, losing both Senate seats in a red state. Trump
claimed Georgia didn't defeat him in November, so they defeated him again
in January.

You have it totally backwards. The person that's petty, motivated by getting
even with anyone who doesn't heap praise upon him, that takes even the
slightest criticism as a savage attack is Trump. And that's because he's
mentally ill.









I agree with those that think the republican party should be a big tent
but her TDS not only extends to Trump but all his supporters. So, she
should go from leadership but is still welcome as a congressman.

Funny then that we never hear you speak out against Trump and the trumpets
who are purging all those who won't grovel before him. And we have you
here bitching about anyone like Cheney who does speak the truth, who
opposes Trump and the disaster he has wrought for your party.

On Wednesday, May 12, 2021 at 12:04:51 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 11 May 2021 22:15:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 11 May 2021 18:31:23 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 5/11/2021 6:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 10 May 2021 22:12:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 5/10/2021 5:25 PM, micky wrote:
OT The secret vote on Liz Cheney this week, is that secret from
everyone? Even McConnell?


Secret votes are for people that lack courage to say what they really
think. That includes many of the voters in this case. They are afraid
to buck the lost leader.


More about Liz,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/u...be15405153fe2f

Ms. Cheney, who is facing a vote Wednesday morning that is almost
certain to succeed in ousting her from House Republicans No. 3 post,
declared on Tuesday that the nation was facing a €œnever seen before€�
threat in a former president who provoked the Jan. 6 Capitol attack and
who €œhas resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the
election was stolen from him.€�

€œRemaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar,€� Ms. Cheney
said. €œI will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in
silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule
of law and joins the former presidents crusade to undermine our
democracy.€�

I just heard her say this, on the radio, and I hate to say it but when I
read it and said it in my head, it sounded better. More convincing.
I think Liz Cheney is sincere without an ulterior motive or even a plan,
but I think if Stumpie runs for prez, so will she (you heard it here
first), and she'll be even harsher than she was (though that might be
50% projecting what I would want to do). That is, going well beyond the
insurrection and including almost everything, including extorting
Zelensky, Trump University, ridiculing the handicapped reporter,
insulting the Gold Star parents, lying about the Boy Scout speech, lying
about the 3 steel-mills he claimed had been built iirc in Penna., which
would lead to every other economic lie he told, which leads to all the
other lies about his alleged accomplishements.***

Today on 1-A (or A-1?), they played her whole words from yesterday and
though her voice wasn't better, the content of her first sentence or
two, that I had not heard before, was very compelling. The fact that it
included personal experiences that most have not had, that most have not
sought, especially the first one. The first sentence was about her
being in Kenya years ago on election day...

Here it is:

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts...te-to-oust-her
Liz Cheney: (00:00)
Tonight I rise to discuss freedom and our constitutional duty to protect
it. Mr. Speaker, I have been privileged to see firsthand how powerful
and how fragile freedom is. 28 years ago, I stood outside a polling
place, a schoolhouse in Western Kenya. Soldiers had chased away people
who were lined up to vote. A few hours later, they came streaming back
in, risking further attack undaunted in their determination to exercise
their right to vote. In 1992, I sat across the table from a young mayor
in [inaudible 00:00:40] Russia, and I listened to him talk of his dream
of liberating his nation from communism. Years later, for his dedication
to the cause of freedom, Boris Nemtsov was assassinated by Vladimir
Putins thugs.

Liz Cheney: (00:55)
In Warsaw in 1990, I listened to a young Polish woman tell me that her
greatest fear was that people would forget. They would forget what it
was like to live under Soviet domination. That they would forget the
price of freedom. Three men, an immigrant who escaped Castros
totalitarian regime, a young man who grew up behind the iron curtain and
became his countrys minister of defense, and a dissident who spent
years in the Soviet Gulag have all told me it was the miracle of America
captured in the words of President Ronald Reagan that inspired them.

Liz Cheney: (01:36)
And I have seen the power of faith and freedom. I listened to the Pope
John Paul II speak to thousands in Nairobi in 1985, and 19 years later,
I watched that same Pope take my fathers hands, look in his eyes and
say, €œGod bless America.€� God has blessed America, Mr. Speaker, but our
freedom only survives if we protect it. If we honor our oath taken
before God in this chamber to support and defend the constitution. If we
recognize threats to freedom when they arise.

And there you have the difference between Cheney and Trump. Words
like that never came from his lips. Trump took that image of America,
of freedom of our democracy and destroyed it. Trump claimed that we're
a corrupt country, no different than his beloved Russia autocracy, where
elections are rigged.




This is where the radio excerpts I heard started:

Liz Cheney: (02:17)
Today we face a threat America has never seen before. A former president
who provoked a violent attack on this capital in an effort to steal the
election has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that
the election was stolen from him. He risks inciting further violence.
Millions of Americans have been misled by the former president. They
have heard only his words, but not the truth as he continues to
undermine our democratic process, sowing seeds of doubt about whether
democracy really works at all......

She doesn't have a strong voice.
Do you all know what I mean? Have you heard her?

More about this later, maybe.
(although if she got this far, I
suppose voters and Reps didn't judge against her for that.)

The Wyoming Republicans remarkable broadside illustrated her
unrepentant response to the effort to dethrone her. She has cast her
almost certain expulsion from the leadership ranks as a €œturning point€�
for her party and told allies that the leadership post is simply not
worth having if it requires her to lie.


If it's a secret vote, she will probably survive it, just like the last
such vote. Many Repub politicians know she is right. They would only
vote to remove her if they are worried about trump voters finding out.

I heard after I first posted that there was a meeting in advance, whhere
people will talk and surely disclose how they are (as far as others are
concerned**) planning to vote. But iiuc all 210 or so Reps. get to vote
and they won't all have time to talk
And you may all know by now that the meeting lasted less than 20
minutes, and she was out by a voice vote. -- I wonder if they look
around and try to note everyone who votes to keep her. Or if they watch
the ones they weren't sure of, or if the votes to keep her were so few
they could notice all 2 of them, for example.

The meeting was so quick, some had not even arrived yet.

And she's out.



***I wish she could bring in being a draft-dodger but since she can't
fully prove it, it would probably hurt her credibiility. Because one
would think all these gun-totin' patriotic 'mericans would be disgusted
by and unforgiving towards a draft dodger.

It's obvious they don't care. They knew it in 2016 and insisted that Trump was
the best candidate when there were 15 other decent Republican candidates.
They also heard those despicable insults Trump hurled at a disabled war
veteran, John McCain, who was gravely wounded and imprisoned serving in
the war Trump dodged. I saw Trump say that shortly after he started to run..
I said he's finished now, Republicans will not stand for that. Sadly I was very
wrong. Not only did they stand for it, they liked it, his polling went up.

On Wednesday, May 12, 2021 at 1:28:13 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 12 May 2021 05:07:57 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:


So it could just be sent to committee! but no one thinks that's going
to happen. So the vote apparently is as secret as the last time. And
the pundits on both side think the vote will go the other way from last
time? What's changed? She's still right.

It's not about right or wrong. It's about her being eager to talk about the
stolen election lie,
I can't keep track and in this case I probably never had enough
information, but I had the impression, or maybe just that I would think
that her attacks on him have always followed some participating/meddling
in politics by him. Is that accurate, afayr

Mostly. Trump and his minions have attacked her and they are trying to
unseat her in Wyoming. Note that this is also happening to other Republicans
who oppose Trump, they are being censured, condemned by the Trump
controlled party apparatus in their states. Some of it comes from the media
interviews with Cheney where she is asked about Trump, his lies and the
insurrection. The new GOP demands that you either lie or refuse to give
an answer to the simple questions.




OTOH, if that were the situation, I myself would have raised it prior to
this vote. OTOH, maybe she thinks they'll think it irrelevant since
that wouldn't make him stop, he's not going to stop. It would be a
moral defense "he started it!", but not a practical one, since like you
say, they just want her to stop. I'm sure some want him to stop, but
they can't stop him.

I find it hard to believe that most Republican congressmen weren't
idealistic, patriotic people when they first ran for office, or at least
when they were children. I wonder when they beoame "pragmatists" who
would sell out the idea of honest elections and respect for the courts.

I don;t know what happened, but it's really, really bad. Even if they are
solely focused on retaining power, what they are doing is incredibly
stupid. Trump cost them the WH, House and Senate in just 4 years.
He turned red state Georgia blue. And they want more of it. It's like
they are watching a different movie. There is a great book called
Extraordinary Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. It starts with
the great tulip craze that overcame Holland hundreds of years ago.
People came to believe there was no end in sight to the price
appreciation of tulips. By the peak a tulip bulb was selling for the
price of a house. We are witnessing that here again. Somehow
the masses have come to believe that a POS that is leading them
down the toilet is a great man to be worshiped, no matter what
he does.

On 5/13/2021 3:32 AM, Larry wrote:
On 5/12/21 10:44 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 5/12/2021 7:29 AM, Frank wrote:

Of course you, micky, traitor admire a fellow sufferer of TDS.

And every thing you post verifies your terminal case of trumpTard
Syndrome.


President Trump speaks the truth. Check this out:

BREAKING: Maricopa County Officials Caught in Huge Fraud

Breaking Update: Maricopa County deleted a directory full of election
databases from the 2020 election cycle days before the election
equipment was delivered to the audit. This is spoliation of evidence!
pic.twitter.com/mY0fmmFXAm

Â*Â* €” Maricopa Arizona Audit (@ArizonaAudit) May 13, 2021


https://populist.press/breaking-mari...in-huge-fraud/


Democrats are criminals.

No. You just believe every wacko lie you read.

On 5/12/2021 12:29 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/11/2021 07:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

So, she has ethics? Morals?Â* We need more politicians like her.Â* Good
for her.

She is also the old guard. Do you think the people attempting to reshape
the Republican party have no ethics or morals?

I've always been an independent and the current party that come closest
to my opinions is the American Solidarity Party, a minuscule group not
even on the ballot in most states. I have no interest in the party of
Bush, McCain, Cheney, Romney and so forth. Whether the Republicans can
reshape themselves and retain voters remains to be seen.


Just checked them out

https://solidarity-party.org/about-us/platform/

I can go along with most of what they are looking to do. Far more than
the other two parties that have made a mess in DC

On 05/13/2021 12:05 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/12/2021 12:29 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/11/2021 07:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

So, she has ethics? Morals? We need more politicians like her. Good
for her.

She is also the old guard. Do you think the people attempting to
reshape the Republican party have no ethics or morals?

I've always been an independent and the current party that come
closest to my opinions is the American Solidarity Party, a minuscule
group not even on the ballot in most states. I have no interest in the
party of Bush, McCain, Cheney, Romney and so forth. Whether the
Republicans can reshape themselves and retain voters remains to be seen.


Just checked them out

https://solidarity-party.org/about-us/platform/

I can go along with most of what they are looking to do. Far more than
the other two parties that have made a mess in DC

There is a lot of history behind them.

https://theimaginativeconservative.o...tributism.html

Just because it is based on Catholic social doctrine does not mean the
ideas are not valid. Rerum Novarum was written in 1891 when society was
undergoing a disruption that had started with the industrial revolution.

http://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xi...m-novarum.html

We're in a similar situation with wealth being concentrated in the hands
of less than 1% of the world's people, and radicals countering with
unworkable ideas based on Marx.

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 05/13/2021 12:05 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/12/2021 12:29 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/11/2021 07:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

So, she has ethics? Morals? We need more politicians like her. Good
for her.

She is also the old guard. Do you think the people attempting to
reshape the Republican party have no ethics or morals?

I've always been an independent and the current party that come
closest to my opinions is the American Solidarity Party, a minuscule
group not even on the ballot in most states. I have no interest in the
party of Bush, McCain, Cheney, Romney and so forth. Whether the
Republicans can reshape themselves and retain voters remains to be seen.


Just checked them out

https://solidarity-party.org/about-us/platform/

I can go along with most of what they are looking to do. Far more than
the other two parties that have made a mess in DC

There is a lot of history behind them.

https://theimaginativeconservative.o...tributism.html

Just because it is based on Catholic social doctrine does not mean the
ideas are not valid. Rerum Novarum was written in 1891 when society was
undergoing a disruption that had started with the industrial revolution.

http://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xi...m-novarum.html

"misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working
class"
thats just silly, even at that time.

We're in a similar situation with wealth being concentrated in the hands
of less than 1% of the world's people,

No its not even in the first world.

and radicals countering with unworkable ideas based on Marx.

On Thu, 13 May 2021 06:25:10 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 12, 2021 at 12:04:51 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

***I wish she could bring in being a draft-dodger but since she can't
fully prove it, it would probably hurt her credibiility. Because one
would think all these gun-totin' patriotic 'mericans would be disgusted
by and unforgiving towards a draft dodger.

It's obvious they don't care. They knew it in 2016 and insisted that Trump was
the best candidate when there were 15 other decent Republican candidates.
They also heard those despicable insults Trump hurled at a disabled war
veteran, John McCain, who was gravely wounded and imprisoned serving in
the war Trump dodged. I saw Trump say that shortly after he started to run.
I said he's finished now, Republicans will not stand for that. Sadly I was very
wrong. Not only did they stand for it, they liked it, his polling went up.

One of the things I think about periodically is how some of the other 2016
candidates spoke so poorly of Trump during the runup to the 2016 election,
including Graham, Cruz, and Rubio, among others, and how Trump spoke so
poorly of each of them. Those people went on to become some of Trump's
biggest supporters. That's some mighty fine mental gymnastics.

One of the interesting news stories of the day is that Florida apparently
has some obscure legal code that allows the Governor to step in and block
an extradition request by another state, so if, for example, NY or GA
indicts Trump for any of multiple issues, it's not a done deal that Florida
would agree to give him up. The twist is that Trump is apparently planning
to move to his golf resort in NJ, thus voluntarily removing himself from
the extradition protection he enjoys in Florida. These are interesting
times.

On 5/13/2021 11:36 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

One of the things I think about periodically is how some of the other 2016
candidates spoke so poorly of Trump during the runup to the 2016 election,
including Graham, Cruz, and Rubio, among others, and how Trump spoke so
poorly of each of them. Those people went on to become some of Trump's
biggest supporters. That's some mighty fine mental gymnastics.

One of the interesting news stories of the day is that Florida apparently
has some obscure legal code that allows the Governor to step in and block
an extradition request by another state, so if, for example, NY or GA
indicts Trump for any of multiple issues, it's not a done deal that Florida
would agree to give him up. The twist is that Trump is apparently planning
to move to his golf resort in NJ, thus voluntarily removing himself from
the extradition protection he enjoys in Florida. These are interesting
times.

NJ can protect him also if they want to.

On Thu, 13 May 2021 20:43:41 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


There is a lot of history behind them.

https://theimaginativeconservative.o...tributism.html

Just because it is based on Catholic social doctrine

What has your latest senile **** got to do with a ng like ahr, gossip girl?

On Fri, 14 May 2021 13:14:19 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the auto-contradicting trolling senile asshole's latest troll****
unread

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Thursday, May 13, 2021 at 11:36:35 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Thu, 13 May 2021 06:25:10 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:
On Wednesday, May 12, 2021 at 12:04:51 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:

***I wish she could bring in being a draft-dodger but since she can't
fully prove it, it would probably hurt her credibiility. Because one
would think all these gun-totin' patriotic 'mericans would be disgusted
by and unforgiving towards a draft dodger.

It's obvious they don't care. They knew it in 2016 and insisted that Trump was
the best candidate when there were 15 other decent Republican candidates.
They also heard those despicable insults Trump hurled at a disabled war
veteran, John McCain, who was gravely wounded and imprisoned serving in
the war Trump dodged. I saw Trump say that shortly after he started to run.
I said he's finished now, Republicans will not stand for that. Sadly I was very
wrong. Not only did they stand for it, they liked it, his polling went up.
One of the things I think about periodically is how some of the other 2016
candidates spoke so poorly of Trump during the runup to the 2016 election,
including Graham, Cruz, and Rubio, among others, and how Trump spoke so
poorly of each of them. Those people went on to become some of Trump's
biggest supporters. That's some mighty fine mental gymnastics.

At least that was during an election and 5 years ago. How about the jerks
like Kevin McCarthy who spoke out against Trump's election lie and insurrection
back in January? He said pretty much what Liz Cheney and others are saying
now. Or McConnell who said back in January that Trump was lying, that there
was no stolen election, that he is responsible for the insurrection, but then
voted not to impeach him.



One of the interesting news stories of the day is that Florida apparently
has some obscure legal code that allows the Governor to step in and block
an extradition request by another state, so if, for example, NY or GA
indicts Trump for any of multiple issues, it's not a done deal that Florida
would agree to give him up. The twist is that Trump is apparently planning
to move to his golf resort in NJ, thus voluntarily removing himself from
the
protection he enjoys in Florida. These are interesting
times.

Like I've said many times, I hope if anyone brings charges against Trump
they are for serious crimes, airtight cases, eg big tax evasion. The last thing
we need is some BS case about valuing properties one way to get a loan
and using a different valuation for real estate tax purposes. If that's a crime,
90% of homeowners are guilty. If they try that it's only going to increase
sympathy and support for Trump.

On Fri, 14 May 2021 00:07:45 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/13/2021 11:36 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

One of the interesting news stories of the day is that Florida apparently
has some obscure legal code that allows the Governor to step in and block
an extradition request by another state, so if, for example, NY or GA
indicts Trump for any of multiple issues, it's not a done deal that Florida
would agree to give him up. The twist is that Trump is apparently planning
to move to his golf resort in NJ, thus voluntarily removing himself from
the extradition protection he enjoys in Florida. These are interesting
times.

NJ can protect him also if they want to.

I hadn't heard that. Thanks.

On Fri, 14 May 2021 05:30:53 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Like I've said many times, I hope if anyone brings charges against Trump
they are for serious crimes, airtight cases, eg big tax evasion. The last thing
we need is some BS case about valuing properties one way to get a loan
and using a different valuation for real estate tax purposes. If that's a crime,
90% of homeowners are guilty. If they try that it's only going to increase
sympathy and support for Trump.

If he runs again in 2024, I suppose he'll get millions of votes even if
he's in prison. His supporters have shown a cultish level of support for
the guy.