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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our house where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are non-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be installed with the insulation no closer than 3".

How do you keep the insulation away ?
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that around each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylinder to be placed around each light ?

Any help is appreciated.
Thank You.

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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 08:25:23 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our house
where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are non-ic rated.
The included instructions state that the cans should be installed with the insulation no closer than 3".
How do you keep the insulation away ?
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that around each can-light from the attic ?
Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylinder to be placed around each light ?
Any help is appreciated.
Thank You.



Dimmable LED "puck" lights.
John T.

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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

Sid 03 writes:
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our house w=
here there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are non-ic=
rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be installed w=
ith the insulation no closer than 3".

How do you keep the insulation away ?
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that around e=
ach can-light from the attic ?


Box them in with 2x6s. Better to get IC rated cans.
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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 08:25:23 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our house where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are non-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be installed with the insulation no closer than 3".

How do you keep the insulation away ?
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that around each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylinder to be placed around each light ?

Any help is appreciated.
Thank You.


Can you get to the top of the ceiling or are you working from below?
They do make boxes for the purpose but you need access.
I would look harder for IC rated cans. They are out there.
As far as I know, it is just an internal thermal fuse anyway.
Disclaimer: I just look at the labels, I don't make them.
From a practical sense LEDs are probably going to make all that IC
stuff go away anyhow. They just don't get that hot. I haven't
installed anything but LEDS in the last few years.
They have easy retrofits for cans with the lens and trim that just
snap in.
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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our house where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are non-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be installed with the insulation no closer than 3".

How do you keep the insulation away ?
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that around each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylinder to be placed around each light ?

Any help is appreciated.
Thank You.


If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)


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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On 4/19/2021 1:51 PM, Retirednoguilt wrote:
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our
house where there is about 6" of blown insulation.* The remodeling
cans are non-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans
should be installed with the insulation no closer than 3".

How do you keep the insulation away ?
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that
around each can-light from the attic ?* Maybe 1/2" wire screen and
bend a cylinder to be placed around each light ?

Any help is appreciated.
Thank You.

If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated.* In fact, the greatest risk
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the
base of the LED bulb.* If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs
that are rated to be used bulb down.* (I had a few LEDs that I started
using in swag lamps.* After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat.* I
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)



Sorry, in the first sentence, I meant to say, "...and you use LEDs,
there's much less heat generated."
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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt
wrote:

On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our house where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are non-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be installed with the insulation no closer than 3".

How do you keep the insulation away ?
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that around each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylinder to be placed around each light ?

Any help is appreciated.
Thank You.


If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)


In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.
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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt
wrote:

On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our house where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are non-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be installed with the insulation no closer than 3".

How do you keep the insulation away ?
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that around each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylinder to be placed around each light ?

Any help is appreciated.
Thank You.


If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)

In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.


That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above.
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides and box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 holes to let some heat escape)
I have never seen a pre-built box, if some has a link to one, please post it.
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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 10:25:26 AM UTC-5, wrote:
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our house where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are non-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be installed with the insulation no closer than 3".

How do you keep the insulation away ?
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that around each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylinder to be placed around each light ?

Any help is appreciated.
Thank You.


Would something like this be of any use?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hoffman-ASE6X6X4-JUNCTION-PULL-BOX/233643112048?hash=item366636f670:g:JzsAAOSwgw9fBPL 3
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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=

use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=

und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=

=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=

=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=

=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=

=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=

=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=

=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=

=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)

In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.


That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)


four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.



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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=

use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=

und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=

=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=

=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=

=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=

=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=

=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=

=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=

=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.


That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)

four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.


Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.



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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:54:56 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt
wrote:

On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our house where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are non-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be installed with the insulation no closer than 3".

How do you keep the insulation away ?
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that around each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylinder to be placed around each light ?

Any help is appreciated.
Thank You.


If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)

In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.


That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above.
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides and box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 holes to let some heat escape)
I have never seen a pre-built box, if some has a link to one, please post it.

Thank You.


https://www.lightingsupply.com/progress-lighting-p8555-01.aspx?msclkid=4f3ea3089f6714a3eaaac376919cb119&u tm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Dynamic %20Ads&utm_term=lightingsupply&utm_content=Entire% 20Site
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Posts: 47
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)

four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.

Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.


Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg


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Posts: 47
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.

Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.

Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...-IMG_1601..jpg


Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series


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Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.

Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg

Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series


What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,141
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 16:18:43 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.

Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.


Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg

The last time I saw it done they used scraps of duct board I assume
they pulled out of the dumpster. That was a while ago and not my job
but I was shadowing another inspector. They did what Scott said and
left the top open. The question then became how the structural guy was
going to feel about the lack of draft stopping and insulation but that
wasn't our call.
That was the last time I saw a non-IC can in new construction. I
suspect the E-Codes made that unattractive. Now they just pack them in
with insulation.

  #17   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 8:28:04 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 16:18:43 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.


Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg

The last time I saw it done they used scraps of duct board I assume
they pulled out of the dumpster. That was a while ago and not my job
but I was shadowing another inspector. They did what Scott said and
left the top open. The question then became how the structural guy was
going to feel about the lack of draft stopping and insulation but that
wasn't our call.
That was the last time I saw a non-IC can in new construction. I
suspect the E-Codes made that unattractive. Now they just pack them in
with insulation.


Those two items I posted are expensive, no matter where you buy them !
Option B may just be a piece of foam-board for $15 and cut and duct-tape my own together ?!


  #18   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,279
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 9:28:04 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 16:18:43 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.


Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg

The last time I saw it done they used scraps of duct board I assume
they pulled out of the dumpster. That was a while ago and not my job
but I was shadowing another inspector. They did what Scott said and
left the top open. The question then became how the structural guy was
going to feel about the lack of draft stopping and insulation but that
wasn't our call.
That was the last time I saw a non-IC can in new construction. I
suspect the E-Codes made that unattractive. Now they just pack them in
with insulation.


One of the benefit of LEDs is that there are ones that are energy rated
for minimal air leakage and even non-rated ones should leak a lot less
air than a conventional fixture. The best ones have a gasket that seals
even better. I wouldn't be putting in anything other than LEDs today for
general lighting.

  #19   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 7:51:14 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 9:28:04 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 16:18:43 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.

Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg

The last time I saw it done they used scraps of duct board I assume
they pulled out of the dumpster. That was a while ago and not my job
but I was shadowing another inspector. They did what Scott said and
left the top open. The question then became how the structural guy was
going to feel about the lack of draft stopping and insulation but that
wasn't our call.
That was the last time I saw a non-IC can in new construction. I
suspect the E-Codes made that unattractive. Now they just pack them in
with insulation.

One of the benefit of LEDs is that there are ones that are energy rated
for minimal air leakage and even non-rated ones should leak a lot less
air than a conventional fixture. The best ones have a gasket that seals
even better. I wouldn't be putting in anything other than LEDs today for
general lighting.


I get the whole LED thing, I use them a lot and intend to on these lights as I did on the others.
But from the point of view of a building anything for others, You have to anticipate for the possibility that someone may in some time in the future screw in an incandescent or halogen bulb into the fixture.
Most likely someone from my family !


  #20   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,058
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...


On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to
digest...


On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.
Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg

Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series


What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?


Full or empty?

--
Tekkie


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,058
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...


On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 19:28:41 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03 posted for all of us to
digest...


On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 8:28:04 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 16:18:43 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.

Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg

The last time I saw it done they used scraps of duct board I assume
they pulled out of the dumpster. That was a while ago and not my job
but I was shadowing another inspector. They did what Scott said and
left the top open. The question then became how the structural guy was
going to feel about the lack of draft stopping and insulation but that
wasn't our call.
That was the last time I saw a non-IC can in new construction. I
suspect the E-Codes made that unattractive. Now they just pack them in
with insulation.


Those two items I posted are expensive, no matter where you buy them !
Option B may just be a piece of foam-board for $15 and cut and duct-tape my own together ?!


Foam board? Nah

--
Tekkie
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 314
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to
digest...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.
Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg
Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series


What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?

Full or empty?

--
Tekkie


I was thinking he could cut the bottom out then set the can over the light. Take the
cap off for ventilation. Spray paint it green to be environmentally correct.
  #23   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:29:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to
digest...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above.. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.
Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg
Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series

What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?

Full or empty?

--
Tekkie

I was thinking he could cut the bottom out then set the can over the light. Take the
cap off for ventilation. Spray paint it green to be environmentally correct.


Possible Solution: https://www.menards.com/main/storeit...=1444444944460


  #24   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,141
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 14:20:22 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:29:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to
digest...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.
Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg
Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series

What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?
Full or empty?

--
Tekkie

I was thinking he could cut the bottom out then set the can over the light. Take the
cap off for ventilation. Spray paint it green to be environmentally correct.


Possible Solution: https://www.menards.com/main/storeit...=1444444944460


That looks like a winner
  #25   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,279
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 5:46:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 14:20:22 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:29:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to
digest...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.
Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg
Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series

What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?
Full or empty?

--
Tekkie
I was thinking he could cut the bottom out then set the can over the light. Take the
cap off for ventilation. Spray paint it green to be environmentally correct.


Possible Solution: https://www.menards.com/main/storeit...=1444444944460

That looks like a winner


The key to these things is you just need to know what the thing you're looking for
is called. Once you know that you know what to search for. I just went through that
with my gas grill renovation. I need two little widgets that go on after the two big
wheels to hold them on. I've seen them many times, never knew what they were
called. They are the washer kind of thing, with teeth on the inside, where you push
it over a rod or shaft and then spring tension keeps it there. I had no idea what they
are called. Turns out it's called a push on lock star washer or fastener. Now I just
have to hope that Lowes has it, already tried HD. HD has greatly reduced their section
where they have things like this in drawers. Lowes has more, but many times
when you find the drawer, most of it is empty, the rest is all jumbled up, all kinds
of wrong sizes, wrong widgets, mixed in. I'd gladly pay more for this stuff if they
used the money to hire a part time kid to keep it stocked and orderly.



  #26   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,058
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...


On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 14:20:22 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03 posted for all of us to
digest...


On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:29:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to
digest...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.
Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg
Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...291&ms clkid=

170ff638c00e172690889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series

What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?
Full or empty?

--
Tekkie

I was thinking he could cut the bottom out then set the can over the light. Take the
cap off for ventilation. Spray paint it green to be environmentally correct.


Possible Solution: https://www.menards.com/main/storeit...=1444444944460


We have a winner! Also looks like the most inexpensive one too!

--
Tekkie
  #27   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,141
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:32:53 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 5:46:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 14:20:22 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:29:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to
digest...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.
Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg
Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series

What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?
Full or empty?

--
Tekkie
I was thinking he could cut the bottom out then set the can over the light. Take the
cap off for ventilation. Spray paint it green to be environmentally correct.

Possible Solution: https://www.menards.com/main/storeit...=1444444944460

That looks like a winner


The key to these things is you just need to know what the thing you're looking for
is called. Once you know that you know what to search for. I just went through that
with my gas grill renovation. I need two little widgets that go on after the two big
wheels to hold them on. I've seen them many times, never knew what they were
called. They are the washer kind of thing, with teeth on the inside, where you push
it over a rod or shaft and then spring tension keeps it there. I had no idea what they
are called. Turns out it's called a push on lock star washer or fastener. Now I just
have to hope that Lowes has it, already tried HD. HD has greatly reduced their section
where they have things like this in drawers. Lowes has more, but many times
when you find the drawer, most of it is empty, the rest is all jumbled up, all kinds
of wrong sizes, wrong widgets, mixed in. I'd gladly pay more for this stuff if they
used the money to hire a part time kid to keep it stocked and orderly.


I would go to Ace Hardware for that. They are locally owned and far
more responsive to the needs of local people. I would get a guy or
lady who knew exactly what I wanted and walk me over to it, maybe even
giving me tips on how to install them.
Sometimes you have to admit, paying an extra nickel for a widget is
worth it to get a little service. Ace is always my first stop for any
kind of hardware item, even if I could find it myself a little cheaper
at the BORG.

Fact: I was sitting on the floor at the Home Depot once reorganizing
several boxes of missorted FMC connectors trying to get the ones I
needed and an employee who knew me actually walked by and said
"That's why we call this a 'do it yourself' store. If you want to find
something do it yourself".
He kept walking.
  #29   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,279
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:32:53 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 5:46:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 14:20:22 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:29:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to
digest...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.
Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg
Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series

What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?
Full or empty?

--
Tekkie
I was thinking he could cut the bottom out then set the can over the light. Take the
cap off for ventilation. Spray paint it green to be environmentally correct.

Possible Solution: https://www.menards.com/main/storeit...=1444444944460

That looks like a winner


The key to these things is you just need to know what the thing you're looking for
is called. Once you know that you know what to search for. I just went through that
with my gas grill renovation. I need two little widgets that go on after the two big
wheels to hold them on. I've seen them many times, never knew what they were
called. They are the washer kind of thing, with teeth on the inside, where you push
it over a rod or shaft and then spring tension keeps it there. I had no idea what they
are called. Turns out it's called a push on lock star washer or fastener.. Now I just
have to hope that Lowes has it, already tried HD. HD has greatly reduced their section
where they have things like this in drawers. Lowes has more, but many times
when you find the drawer, most of it is empty, the rest is all jumbled up, all kinds
of wrong sizes, wrong widgets, mixed in. I'd gladly pay more for this stuff if they
used the money to hire a part time kid to keep it stocked and orderly.

I would go to Ace Hardware for that. They are locally owned and far
more responsive to the needs of local people.



I mostly avoid the local Ace like the plague. They insist on "helping" you when you
don't need help and they know nothing. One idiot that I hate the most gave me a
big lecture on the wonders of Sharkbite fittings, when I wasn't even looking for
a fitting. I needed a simple water pressure gauge, which of course they didn't
have. He also told me that the municipal water pressure is 4 PSI and that he does
repairs at the local school. HD is 7 miles farther, but they have a much better
selection, lower prices and no idiots pestering me.



  #30   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 120
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On 4/22/21 10:10 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:32:53 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 5:46:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 14:20:22 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:29:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to
digest...
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.
That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.
Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg
Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series
What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?
Full or empty?

--
Tekkie
I was thinking he could cut the bottom out then set the can over the light. Take the
cap off for ventilation. Spray paint it green to be environmentally correct.
Possible Solution: https://www.menards.com/main/storeit...=1444444944460

That looks like a winner
The key to these things is you just need to know what the thing you're looking for
is called. Once you know that you know what to search for. I just went through that
with my gas grill renovation. I need two little widgets that go on after the two big
wheels to hold them on. I've seen them many times, never knew what they were
called. They are the washer kind of thing, with teeth on the inside, where you push
it over a rod or shaft and then spring tension keeps it there. I had no idea what they
are called. Turns out it's called a push on lock star washer or fastener. Now I just
have to hope that Lowes has it, already tried HD. HD has greatly reduced their section
where they have things like this in drawers. Lowes has more, but many times
when you find the drawer, most of it is empty, the rest is all jumbled up, all kinds
of wrong sizes, wrong widgets, mixed in. I'd gladly pay more for this stuff if they
used the money to hire a part time kid to keep it stocked and orderly.

I would go to Ace Hardware for that. They are locally owned and far
more responsive to the needs of local people.


I mostly avoid the local Ace like the plague. They insist on "helping" you when you
don't need help and they know nothing. One idiot that I hate the most gave me a
big lecture on the wonders of Sharkbite fittings, when I wasn't even looking for
a fitting. I needed a simple water pressure gauge, which of course they didn't
have. He also told me that the municipal water pressure is 4 PSI and that he does
repairs at the local school. HD is 7 miles farther, but they have a much better
selection, lower prices and no idiots pestering me.




Apparently Langone got TDS and is converting to Biden Marxism so you'll be at home there.

https://news.yahoo.com/home-depot-co...165740822.html




  #31   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 404
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blowninsulation ...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 10:25:26 AM UTC-5, wrote:
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our house where there is about 6" of blown insulation.


I'm installing the thin LED type of fixtures but even for them I want to keep the blown insulation away so that it cannot potentially infiltrate into the living area. I plan to use plastic planter saucers and caulk them to the top of the ceiling.

Something like this...
https://www.amazon.com/GREGICH-Plast...dp/B08PYWTJTK/
  #32   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,141
Default How to install non-ic can lighting in the ceiling w/blown insulation ...

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 07:10:53 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:32:53 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 5:46:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 14:20:22 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:29:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to
digest...

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-5, Sid 03 wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:15:10 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Sid 03 writes:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:25:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:51:04 -0400, Retirednoguilt=20
wrote:=20
=20
On 4/19/2021 11:25 AM, Sid 03 wrote:=20
We are installing can lights in the ceiling on the 2nd floor of our ho=
use where there is about 6" of blown insulation. The remodeling cans are no=
n-ic rated. The included instructions state that the cans should be install=
ed with the insulation no closer than 3".=20
=20
How do you keep the insulation away ?=20
Thought about cutting both ends from a coffee-can and placing that aro=
und each can-light from the attic ? Maybe 1/2" wire screen and bend a cylin=
der to be placed around each light ?=20
=20
Any help is appreciated.=20
Thank You.=20
=20
=20
If the rating is predicated on using incandescent or CFL bulbs, and you=
=20
use CFLs, there's much less heat generated. In fact, the greatest risk=
=20
from heat will not be a fire in the attic but damaged electronics in the=
=20
base of the LED bulb. If I were in your situation, I'd not worry about=
=20
keeping the blown insulation away from the base of the cans and use LEDs=
=20
that are rated to be used bulb down. (I had a few LEDs that I started=20
using in swag lamps. After a few weeks, they began to flicker and even=
=20
go out after being on for more than about one hour, only to work again=
=20
after being allowed to cool completely when the cycle would repeat. I=20
moved them to table lamps and they've not flickered once.)
In a can it is better to just use the retro fit kit. They are designed=20
for the application. These things use from about 11 watts to 18 watts.=20
They are not nearly enough to be worrying about overheating the can.

That's good info, but we have already installed about 8 of these lights on =
the first floor and working, now she wants some on the 2nd floor, so I had =
to buy what matched (what she wanted)
Yes, I can get in the attic and get to the lights from above. =20
Q: If I do use boxes pre-built or I-built, would you just build 4 sides an=
d box it in, or 4 sides and a cover/Top ? (maybe drill a couple of 3/4 hol=
es to let some heat escape)
four sides. leave the top open. make sure the sides are high enough
if you have blown insulation.
Scott: My concern is that if cold attic air was able to be in contact with the ceiling around the light, it could cool the ceiling to the point that it could start to sweat (condensate and drip)
It was gfre.. that mentioned that prefabbed boxes were available for this purpose.
Dean: That's a little overkill, might work. probably not deep enough.
Looks like people are building there own boxes:
https://protradecraft.s3.amazonaws.c...x-IMG_1601.jpg
Found some pre-fab units, Kinda expensive ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25493171291...889646dc7e616b

https://www.cancoverit.com/cancoveri...iversal-series

What would a 2 1/2 gallon gas can cost? Would a 1 gallon be deep enough?
Full or empty?

--
Tekkie
I was thinking he could cut the bottom out then set the can over the light. Take the
cap off for ventilation. Spray paint it green to be environmentally correct.

Possible Solution: https://www.menards.com/main/storeit...=1444444944460

That looks like a winner

The key to these things is you just need to know what the thing you're looking for
is called. Once you know that you know what to search for. I just went through that
with my gas grill renovation. I need two little widgets that go on after the two big
wheels to hold them on. I've seen them many times, never knew what they were
called. They are the washer kind of thing, with teeth on the inside, where you push
it over a rod or shaft and then spring tension keeps it there. I had no idea what they
are called. Turns out it's called a push on lock star washer or fastener. Now I just
have to hope that Lowes has it, already tried HD. HD has greatly reduced their section
where they have things like this in drawers. Lowes has more, but many times
when you find the drawer, most of it is empty, the rest is all jumbled up, all kinds
of wrong sizes, wrong widgets, mixed in. I'd gladly pay more for this stuff if they
used the money to hire a part time kid to keep it stocked and orderly.

I would go to Ace Hardware for that. They are locally owned and far
more responsive to the needs of local people.



I mostly avoid the local Ace like the plague. They insist on "helping" you when you
don't need help and they know nothing. One idiot that I hate the most gave me a
big lecture on the wonders of Sharkbite fittings, when I wasn't even looking for
a fitting. I needed a simple water pressure gauge, which of course they didn't
have. He also told me that the municipal water pressure is 4 PSI and that he does
repairs at the local school. HD is 7 miles farther, but they have a much better
selection, lower prices and no idiots pestering me.



Must be a local problem. They ask me if I need help, I usually say no
and they leave me alone. When I do want help, they are helpful.
OTOH my wife loved them. She could walk in with something from the
club, hold it up and they would go get her one. She never had to do
much of anything but pay and go.
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