Up until this month I always bought the dino juice at Costco on sale which a
few cases of lasted me until the next Costco dino juice gas engine oil sale.

Now that Costco no longer seems to be selling any dino juice I'm looking at
their full synthetics and blended synthetics for comparison purposes.
https://www.costco.com/motor-oil.html

What do we look for to compare their ~$2.50/quart full synthetic with their
roughly equivalently priced blended synthetic gasoline motor oil selection?
https://www.costco.com/mobil-super-s...100594938.html

mike wrote:
Up until this month I always bought the dino juice at Costco on sale
which a
few cases of lasted me until the next Costco dino juice gas engine oil
sale.

Now that Costco no longer seems to be selling any dino juice I'm looking at
their full synthetics and blended synthetics for comparison purposes.
https://www.costco.com/motor-oil.html

What do we look for to compare their ~$2.50/quart full synthetic with their
roughly equivalently priced blended synthetic gasoline motor oil selection?
https://www.costco.com/mobil-super-s...100594938.html

What is the blend ratio?

Paul in Houston TX wrote:
mike wrote:
roughly equivalently priced blended synthetic gasoline motor oil selection?
https://www.costco.com/mobil-super-s...100594938.html

What is the blend ratio?

Not relevant, because "blended" doesn't mean what it seems to. In fact,
"synthetic" doesn't even mean what it seems to.

The vast majority of "synthetic" oils sold in the US are not legal to sell
as synthetic in Europe.

Hint: "synthetic" does not necessarily mean the base oil has been synthesized
from monomers. Even in Europe.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 25-03-2021 23:12 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Not relevant, because "blended" doesn't mean what it seems to. In fact,
"synthetic" doesn't even mean what it seems to.

The vast majority of "synthetic" oils sold in the US are not legal to sell
as synthetic in Europe.

Hint: "synthetic" does not necessarily mean the base oil has been synthesized
from monomers. Even in Europe.

What always matters to me is HOW to make a rational intelligent comparison.

Does anyone have a good reference for what important specs to look for on
the jug of each container of synthetic (blended or otherwise) motor oil?

Or is all we've got the known General Motors, API and SAE certifications?

In article , mike wrote:
On 25-03-2021 23:12 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Not relevant, because "blended" doesn't mean what it seems to. In fact,
"synthetic" doesn't even mean what it seems to.

The vast majority of "synthetic" oils sold in the US are not legal to sell
as synthetic in Europe.

Hint: "synthetic" does not necessarily mean the base oil has been synthesized
from monomers. Even in Europe.

What always matters to me is HOW to make a rational intelligent comparison.

Aside from a few obvious and measurable things like ZDDP levels, and a few
other things to do with the additive package you really can't.

With a newer car you can make sure that the oil meets or exceeds the
manufacturer's specification for the vehicle, and that's really all you can
do.

With an older car, the manufacturer's specification may no longer even be
relevant. In that case, all you can do is guess, unless you want to do
an oil analysis with every change.

Does anyone have a good reference for what important specs to look for on
the jug of each container of synthetic (blended or otherwise) motor oil?

Or is all we've got the known General Motors, API and SAE certifications?

That's all you'll find on the jug. You may be able to get a more detailed
datasheet, but for instance knowing that a high ZDDP level is important for
engines with flat tappets but not for engines with roller lifters is about
as far as you can go with the information on the datasheet.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 26-03-2021 17:31 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Aside from a few obvious and measurable things like ZDDP levels, and a few
other things to do with the additive package you really can't.

Thanks for taking a stab at answering the question.

I have been looking for a few days now and am slowly coming to the same
tentative conclusions that all the synthetics are just fine for an old car.

The ZDDP has its problems if you have a cat which I'm sure you're aware of.

With a newer car you can make sure that the oil meets or exceeds the
manufacturer's specification for the vehicle, and that's really all you can
do.

They all do. You have to go out of your way to find a bad oil as far as what
I can tell from the few shops I visit (Costco, Home Depot, Walmart & AP).

Mostly I get a few cases of whatever Costco has on sale but my new metric is
to now aim for full synthetic API SP by the case at less than $2.50/qt

A few cases a year does me fine.
I buy the filters at the AP store or Walmart but I should buy in bulk too.

With an older car, the manufacturer's specification may no longer even be
relevant. In that case, all you can do is guess, unless you want to do
an oil analysis with every change.

I agree.
I used to do the oil analysis but it mostly tells you what you already know.
Almost every oil has an API rating better than what came in the vehicle.
You would have to go out of your way to find an oil that didn't meet it.

That's all you'll find on the jug. You may be able to get a more detailed
datasheet, but for instance knowing that a high ZDDP level is important for
engines with flat tappets but not for engines with roller lifters is about
as far as you can go with the information on the datasheet.

All my gas engine cars have cats so too high ZDDP is out of the question.

I called Kirkland (Warren Distribution is the blender in Omaha Nebraska).
https://warrendistribution.com/contact/
(800)825-1235 x1 customer service, x1 again for customer service
They called back but I missed it so I'm gonna have to try again.

Meanwhile I spent about an hour on the line with Mobil.

Mobil (https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/contact-us)
(800)662-4525 x1 (non commercial) x1 (motor oil)
The guy who answered wasn't good enough so he patched me thru
to the second level technical support after he pointed me to the datasheets.
http://exxonmobil.com/pds
https://www.exxonmobil.com/en/pds#f:Location=[United%20States]

But the guy didn't know how to answer my questions about motor oil selection
so he transferred me to a second level who transferred me to a supervisor
after a while (which was nice of them as each knew more than the prior).

What I did while I was waiting was pullup a random Costco Mobil 1
https://www.costco.com/mobil-super-s...100594938.html

And pulled up the datasheet
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...thetic-10w-30/

The 2nd level just gave me more lookup engines for personal vehicles
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants

For example you can put in your year make and model to find their oil
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...ght-motor-oil/

But it pretty much suggests all their oils (not surprisingly)
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...8/896/1265/0/1

If it says Super it's a blend, if it says Mobil 1 it's full.
(Except the exception of Mobil Super Synthetic 10W-30).

If it says "Extended Performance" it's high mileage (20K / 1 year).
If it says "Advanced Fuel Economy" it's not for high mileage.

Basically they only gave me mostly the marketing that was on the outside.
High Mileage & super blends don't meet the dexos spec.
He basically said the full synthetic is better than the blends.
But he said there are no rules anywhere for what constitutes what.

As an aside, he said synthetic oil finds leaks not causes them.
He defended oil detergents as exposing leaks (by cleaning out gunk).

When I asked about filters he said they don't make filters.
He said all Mobile oil filters are rated at 1 year 20k miles.
Mobil contracts out to Mann-Hummel who also makes Wix & Purolator filters.
1-919-926-4210 (temporary covid number for Mann-Hummel)
x1 product information hotline (M-F 8am to 7:30pm, Sat 9am to 5:30pm)
https://www.mann-hummel.com/en/
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...8/896/1265/0/1

Mann-Hummel didn't know the answers to the questions so they said they'd
have a support person write to me over email (so I'm waiting for that).
--
BTW, he said Penzoil starts with natural gas for their synthetics.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 00:36:32 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 17:31 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Aside from a few obvious and measurable things like ZDDP levels, and a few
other things to do with the additive package you really can't.

Thanks for taking a stab at answering the question.

I have been looking for a few days now and am slowly coming to the same
tentative conclusions that all the synthetics are just fine for an old car.

The ZDDP has its problems if you have a cat which I'm sure you're aware of.

With a newer car you can make sure that the oil meets or exceeds the
manufacturer's specification for the vehicle, and that's really all you can
do.

They all do. You have to go out of your way to find a bad oil as far as what
I can tell from the few shops I visit (Costco, Home Depot, Walmart & AP).

Mostly I get a few cases of whatever Costco has on sale but my new metric is
to now aim for full synthetic API SP by the case at less than $2.50/qt

A few cases a year does me fine.
I buy the filters at the AP store or Walmart but I should buy in bulk too.

With an older car, the manufacturer's specification may no longer even be
relevant. In that case, all you can do is guess, unless you want to do
an oil analysis with every change.

I agree.
I used to do the oil analysis but it mostly tells you what you already know.
Almost every oil has an API rating better than what came in the vehicle.
You would have to go out of your way to find an oil that didn't meet it.

That's all you'll find on the jug. You may be able to get a more detailed
datasheet, but for instance knowing that a high ZDDP level is important for
engines with flat tappets but not for engines with roller lifters is about
as far as you can go with the information on the datasheet.

All my gas engine cars have cats so too high ZDDP is out of the question.

I called Kirkland (Warren Distribution is the blender in Omaha Nebraska).
https://warrendistribution.com/contact/
(800)825-1235 x1 customer service, x1 again for customer service
They called back but I missed it so I'm gonna have to try again.

Meanwhile I spent about an hour on the line with Mobil.

Mobil (https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/contact-us)
(800)662-4525 x1 (non commercial) x1 (motor oil)
The guy who answered wasn't good enough so he patched me thru
to the second level technical support after he pointed me to the datasheets.
http://exxonmobil.com/pds
https://www.exxonmobil.com/en/pds#f:Location=[United%20States]

But the guy didn't know how to answer my questions about motor oil selection
so he transferred me to a second level who transferred me to a supervisor
after a while (which was nice of them as each knew more than the prior).

What I did while I was waiting was pullup a random Costco Mobil 1
https://www.costco.com/mobil-super-s...100594938.html

And pulled up the datasheet
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...thetic-10w-30/

The 2nd level just gave me more lookup engines for personal vehicles
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants

For example you can put in your year make and model to find their oil
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...ght-motor-oil/

But it pretty much suggests all their oils (not surprisingly)
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...8/896/1265/0/1

If it says Super it's a blend, if it says Mobil 1 it's full.
(Except the exception of Mobil Super Synthetic 10W-30).

If it says "Extended Performance" it's high mileage (20K / 1 year).
If it says "Advanced Fuel Economy" it's not for high mileage.

Basically they only gave me mostly the marketing that was on the outside.
High Mileage & super blends don't meet the dexos spec.
He basically said the full synthetic is better than the blends.
But he said there are no rules anywhere for what constitutes what.

As an aside, he said synthetic oil finds leaks not causes them.
He defended oil detergents as exposing leaks (by cleaning out gunk).

When I asked about filters he said they don't make filters.
He said all Mobile oil filters are rated at 1 year 20k miles.
Mobil contracts out to Mann-Hummel who also makes Wix & Purolator filters.
1-919-926-4210 (temporary covid number for Mann-Hummel)
x1 product information hotline (M-F 8am to 7:30pm, Sat 9am to 5:30pm)
https://www.mann-hummel.com/en/
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...8/896/1265/0/1

Mann-Hummel didn't know the answers to the questions so they said they'd
have a support person write to me over email (so I'm waiting for that).


Impressive detective work! Thank you for going the length with this.