On 02/21/2021 10:51 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 12:47:49 PM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 02/21/2021 08:21 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:07:20 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 02:40:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 7:02:29 PM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:

Trump said he wanted to build a wall on the southern border of Colorado.
That might be a lot easier than trying to build it along the Mexican
border. Hey, maybe every state should have a wall along each of its
borders. That would keep the construction jobs going for a while.

Good idea. I'd be a breeze in Michigan. Two relatively short walls
and we can keep out both the Ohioans and Wisconsinites.

Cindy Hamilton
You still have Indiana and don't forget the boat people. There are
several thousand miles of coastline. The main part of the state is
surrounded on 3 sides by water bisecting you from the U.P.
Maybe you would be more defensible if you let Wisconsin have the U.P.


I'd be happy to reverse the outcome of the Toledo War, now that the mines
of the U.P. are no longer an economic powerhouse.
You would miss Iron Mountain...

Would I? I see it has a bocce ball tournament. Pity I don't play.

Now you're really missing something... There are bocce courts in the
North End of Boston. The players are mostly older men and it's slow and
civilized. That contrasts with the informal games played in public parks
where I grew up. Underhand tosses are legal and combined with young
Italian guys with a gut full of chianti, quiet picnics were sometimes
interrupted by an errant bocce ball.

We used to have a Celtic Festival and Irish road bowling was featured on
one of the bike/pedestrian trails. I avoided that too.

I was only in the UP once. I left Montana with springtime in the Rockies
in full swing, chirping birds, budding trees, and all that stuff.

I remember wading through 2 feet of snow to an outhouse in a closed
roadside park along US 2. iirc my delivery was in Crystal Falls which
is even less appealing and my dispatcher sent me to Iron Mountain while
she tried to find a load to get me out of Michigan.

I'm sure it's pretty in the summer, but I'm also sure, like Wisconsin,
the mosquitoes resemble 737's.

On 02/21/2021 11:32 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:50:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/21/2021 9:07 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 02:40:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 7:02:29 PM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:

Trump said he wanted to build a wall on the southern border of Colorado.
That might be a lot easier than trying to build it along the Mexican
border. Hey, maybe every state should have a wall along each of its
borders. That would keep the construction jobs going for a while.

Good idea. I'd be a breeze in Michigan. Two relatively short walls
and we can keep out both the Ohioans and Wisconsinites.

JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!

Cindy Hamilton

You still have Indiana and don't forget the boat people. There are
several thousand miles of coastline. The main part of the state is
surrounded on 3 sides by water bisecting you from the U.P.
Maybe you would be more defensible if you let Wisconsin have the U.P.



A couple of fast gun boats should take care of that. Snowmobile patrols
once it freezes. Would keep the Canadians out too.

More jobs. The Michigan Navy. The Michigan Naval Academy. Professors,
deans, michipmen, ensigns all the way up to captains, the Detroit Naval
Shipyard, torpedo factories, machine gun factories, enough to use all
the empty factory space in Detroit. JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!

It's not so important whether it's a good idea or not. It's that it
makes jobs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu1GpQeYh5g

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 14:33:33 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


Now you're really missing something... There are bocce courts in the
North End of Boston. The players are mostly

FLUSH more of the senile blabbermouth's endless senile bull****

Has it never crossed your senile mind that you ARE nothing but a ridiculous
bigmouthed senile GOSSIP, lowbrowwoman? BG

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:50:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/21/2021 9:07 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 02:40:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 7:02:29 PM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:

Trump said he wanted to build a wall on the southern border of Colorado.
That might be a lot easier than trying to build it along the Mexican
border. Hey, maybe every state should have a wall along each of its
borders. That would keep the construction jobs going for a while.

Good idea. I'd be a breeze in Michigan. Two relatively short walls
and we can keep out both the Ohioans and Wisconsinites.

Cindy Hamilton

You still have Indiana and don't forget the boat people. There are
several thousand miles of coastline. The main part of the state is
surrounded on 3 sides by water bisecting you from the U.P.
Maybe you would be more defensible if you let Wisconsin have the U.P.



A couple of fast gun boats should take care of that. Snowmobile patrols
once it freezes. Would keep the Canadians out too.

A couple? Maybe you should look at a map. There is 3224 miles of
coastline according to NOAA. Maybe 300 if you are serious about it and
since some of that coast is abutting fairly narrow rivers, the boats
need to be a little closer together.

On 2/21/2021 6:08 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:50:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/21/2021 9:07 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 02:40:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 7:02:29 PM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:

Trump said he wanted to build a wall on the southern border of Colorado.
That might be a lot easier than trying to build it along the Mexican
border. Hey, maybe every state should have a wall along each of its
borders. That would keep the construction jobs going for a while.

Good idea. I'd be a breeze in Michigan. Two relatively short walls
and we can keep out both the Ohioans and Wisconsinites.

Cindy Hamilton

You still have Indiana and don't forget the boat people. There are
several thousand miles of coastline. The main part of the state is
surrounded on 3 sides by water bisecting you from the U.P.
Maybe you would be more defensible if you let Wisconsin have the U.P.



A couple of fast gun boats should take care of that. Snowmobile patrols
once it freezes. Would keep the Canadians out too.

A couple? Maybe you should look at a map. There is 3224 miles of
coastline according to NOAA. Maybe 300 if you are serious about it and
since some of that coast is abutting fairly narrow rivers, the boats
need to be a little closer together.

It was meant for a bit of humor, not a serious plan for military action.
I'll forward your plan to the MI Nat Guard though so they can do some
real planning.

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 13:32:45 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:50:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/21/2021 9:07 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 02:40:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 7:02:29 PM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:

Trump said he wanted to build a wall on the southern border of Colorado.
That might be a lot easier than trying to build it along the Mexican
border. Hey, maybe every state should have a wall along each of its
borders. That would keep the construction jobs going for a while.

Good idea. I'd be a breeze in Michigan. Two relatively short walls
and we can keep out both the Ohioans and Wisconsinites.

JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!

Cindy Hamilton

You still have Indiana and don't forget the boat people. There are
several thousand miles of coastline. The main part of the state is
surrounded on 3 sides by water bisecting you from the U.P.
Maybe you would be more defensible if you let Wisconsin have the U.P.



A couple of fast gun boats should take care of that. Snowmobile patrols
once it freezes. Would keep the Canadians out too.

More jobs. The Michigan Navy. The Michigan Naval Academy.

They already have it.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Marine%20Academy.JPG

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 14:33:33 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/21/2021 10:51 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 12:47:49 PM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 02/21/2021 08:21 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:07:20 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 02:40:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 7:02:29 PM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:

Trump said he wanted to build a wall on the southern border of Colorado.
That might be a lot easier than trying to build it along the Mexican
border. Hey, maybe every state should have a wall along each of its
borders. That would keep the construction jobs going for a while.

Good idea. I'd be a breeze in Michigan. Two relatively short walls
and we can keep out both the Ohioans and Wisconsinites.

Cindy Hamilton
You still have Indiana and don't forget the boat people. There are
several thousand miles of coastline. The main part of the state is
surrounded on 3 sides by water bisecting you from the U.P.
Maybe you would be more defensible if you let Wisconsin have the U.P.


I'd be happy to reverse the outcome of the Toledo War, now that the mines
of the U.P. are no longer an economic powerhouse.
You would miss Iron Mountain...

Would I? I see it has a bocce ball tournament. Pity I don't play.

Now you're really missing something... There are bocce courts in the
North End of Boston. The players are mostly older men and it's slow and
civilized. That contrasts with the informal games played in public parks
where I grew up. Underhand tosses are legal and combined with young
Italian guys with a gut full of chianti, quiet picnics were sometimes
interrupted by an errant bocce ball.

My buddies in North Ft Myers play pasture bocce. There are no rules.
The winner of the last round, or whatever you call it, gets to throw
the pauline wherever (s)he wants and you chase the little ball with
the big ones. If it lands in a cow pie, the thrower has to go get
everyone a beer.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Feb 2021 19:21:08 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 13:32:45 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:50:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/21/2021 9:07 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 02:40:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 7:02:29 PM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:

Trump said he wanted to build a wall on the southern border of Colorado.
That might be a lot easier than trying to build it along the Mexican
border. Hey, maybe every state should have a wall along each of its
borders. That would keep the construction jobs going for a while.

Good idea. I'd be a breeze in Michigan. Two relatively short walls
and we can keep out both the Ohioans and Wisconsinites.

JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!

Cindy Hamilton

You still have Indiana and don't forget the boat people. There are
several thousand miles of coastline. The main part of the state is
surrounded on 3 sides by water bisecting you from the U.P.
Maybe you would be more defensible if you let Wisconsin have the U.P.



A couple of fast gun boats should take care of that. Snowmobile patrols
once it freezes. Would keep the Canadians out too.

More jobs. The Michigan Navy. The Michigan Naval Academy.

They already have it.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Marine%20Academy.JPG

That's for fishing and commerce. We need to train mishiganers for
combat.

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 20:06:02 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Feb 2021 19:21:08 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 13:32:45 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:50:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/21/2021 9:07 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 02:40:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 7:02:29 PM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:

Trump said he wanted to build a wall on the southern border of Colorado.
That might be a lot easier than trying to build it along the Mexican
border. Hey, maybe every state should have a wall along each of its
borders. That would keep the construction jobs going for a while.

Good idea. I'd be a breeze in Michigan. Two relatively short walls
and we can keep out both the Ohioans and Wisconsinites.

JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!

Cindy Hamilton

You still have Indiana and don't forget the boat people. There are
several thousand miles of coastline. The main part of the state is
surrounded on 3 sides by water bisecting you from the U.P.
Maybe you would be more defensible if you let Wisconsin have the U.P.



A couple of fast gun boats should take care of that. Snowmobile patrols
once it freezes. Would keep the Canadians out too.

More jobs. The Michigan Navy. The Michigan Naval Academy.

They already have it.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Marine%20Academy.JPG

That's for fishing and commerce. We need to train mishiganers for
combat.

There are a few militia groups for that.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Feb 2021 06:00:15 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, February 19, 2021 at 6:23:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 05:52:51 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 11:50:33 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:56:45 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I doubt that anybody getting a degree in 4th Century Greek sculpture
could hack it at trade or technical school. Those disciplines require
aptitude.

Now, don't get me started on how useless most young people are because
they've spent their whole lives twiddling cell phone buttons or going to
"maker academy" where nothing has to be kludged together.



Yes, today the young people do not seem to be able to do simple repair
things around the house.
That is only because they never had a chance to be taught. "Shop"
disappeared from middle and high school in the 70s (probably because
educators didn't know which end of a hammer you hold) and we are
seeing the fallout now. Latinos are kicking our ass in the trades.

Funny, do they teach shop in Mexico and Honduras schools? Do Latinos
here go to different schools that do teach shop? The whole claims is wrong,
at least here in NJ. The schools district here has vocational schools that
teach trades like auto repair, HVAC, electrical, and yes, carpentry. That's
way more than just shop from 50 years ago. If FL hasn't kept up, maybe
that's because your state is too cheap, doesn't care and prefers low taxes.

They learn trades the old fashioned way, Their dad, uncle, brother
teaches them.
You are talking about a dedicated VoTec, not a regular school.
We have VoTecs but they are not pushed by the school system.

It's not a dedictaed VoTec, it's part of our HS system. The issue was preparing
public school students for trade type jobs. You claimed that HS had
eliminated shop, so students can't learn skill like using a hammer.
I simply pointed out that it's actually gone the opposite way, that HS
students here have courses of study that teach HVAC, auto repair,
electrical trades, etc. School systems shouldn't be pushing anything.
They should and do help students assess their aptitudes, their abilities
and help guide them to career possibilities where they can succeed.

For what it's worth, my mother went to Emmerich Manual Training High
School in Indianapolis, a public high school, and graduated in 1926,
She went there not for manual traing but because it was the closest high
school, but its purpose was "To provide training in such fields as
mechanics, drafting, and the domestic arts" and I believe it drew from
the whole city. It opened in 1895, originally called the Industrial
Training School.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmeri...al_High_School

Charles E. Emmerich retired having developed the program into one copied
by many other schools throughout the country.

https://historicindianapolis.com/ind...g-high-school/



If
you don't speak a little Spanish you can't be a job super or a
contractor these days. I was helped being an inspector because I took
a Spanish class and I made the extra effort to expand that "do you
have a telephone" stuff into the terms used in construction.

That's true, but I suspect it has a lot more to do with Americans having
become lazy and unwilling to do hard manual labor. And even those that
will, most have half the productivity of immigrants. I have a friend who
builds golf courses and that has been his experience. You don't need
shop to know how to use a shovel.

Generally speaking based on our experience in construction, Mexicans
were masons and concrete, Guatemalans were manual labor (shovel guys),
Tile guys tended to be South American, Brazil or Colombia.
Cubans were electricians.
That started changing in the last 15 or 20 years and now you see a lot
of Mexican electricians. They really go fast, turning a plodding along
"union" job into an assembly line operation.
I suppose it is just a matter of time before they take over plumbing
and HVAC.
Right now those guys still seem to be old rednecks. There isn't much
acceptance of Latinos, either on the job or in the supply house.
The supply house is a real choke point because they get real picky
about who they will sell to and if you have to go to Home Depot or
other retail places, it is hard to be competitive with your price.
HVAC is the worst. Just go over to the HVAC newsgroup and ask a home
owner question. They will flame you out.

Since I do most of my own repairs, I haven't had a lot of experience with
all of that. But I think your observation about the HVAC guys is probably
right. I had not really thought about it, but from what I recall seeing in
the neighborhood, I don't see what you see with landscapers or roofers.
Same with electricians here.

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 12:48:56 PM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 06:47:57 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:
On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 5:12:54 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 18 Feb 2021 22:56:26 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:



So what? He's the president, but many others in your party, who
he keeps caving in to, want more freebies, using borrowed money.
He just killed 10K+ high paying jobs on the XL pipeline so more
I just love the implicit argument that it's good to do bad things if it
creates jobs.

There is no "bad thing". It's oil for Christ's sake. It's oil that's already
being produced, already being transported across America by rail.
Moving it by pipeline is safer, releases far less CO2 and other pollutants.
It's coming from Canada, our ally. When Trump screwed Canada and
it's people with his trade war BS, woaaah, that was horrific according
to you. But your guy just screwed them, did something even worse,
and here you are defending it. After all, he's a Democrat, so it's OK.





The question should be, Is it a good idea or not?

That's fine BEFORE you give approval and construction is under way.
Now it just showed that the US is like Cuba, where the govt can just
decide to take your investment.



I had a friend in college who thought the Viet Nam war was a good thing
because it was good for the economy. I wasn't capable of judging the
war, but I know that's not a good reason.

Pathetic. It's an oil pipeline, not a war. And this is a good example of how
unreasonable, uncaring and stupid Democrats are too. It would have been
very easy for Biden to leave this alone. To decide not to kill thousands of
good, high paying jobs in the middle of a terrible economy. To decide that
it's wrong to screw investors, to screw Canada. To move toward the middle
with some cooperation, demonstrating that he is reasonable, not a radical.
Showing Republicans and the country that maybe he can bring us together.
Instead he sided with the crazy extremists.
From what I've read and heard, those "thousands of high paying jobs" were
actually about 1000 temporary jobs, none of them coming with high pay.

I wonder if you feel the same way about the wall on the southern border.
That, too, should be completely shut down and jobs will be affected.

That's totally apples and oranges. The wall is a govt funded project. But
the same principles apply. Since the govt is going to cancel it, they should
HONOR their existing commitments, ie complete the existing contracts
or reach a fair settlement with the contractors. And that's what will happen,
if Biden tried to just welch out on it, the contractors will sue and win.
As to building the wall, I have the same position I've always had, that the
southern border needs to be secured by whatever means necessary.
Unfortunately Biden and the Democrats have open borders policies.
The fool is busing in 25K that Trump had halted in Mexico. No worries,
let's borrow more money to pay for that cluster ****. And Biden and the
Democrats are getting the people killed too, with their invitations:


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-55829429

Now though, the club have retired the jersey in his honour. Marvin was one of 19 Guatemalan immigrants who were killed in a brutal, gruesome attack in the state of Tamaulipas in northern Mexico last weekend. He was 22.

They were shot and then set alight, most likely by a drug cartel that controls the migrant smuggling routes across the US-Mexican border. Their charred remains are unrecognisable and William Matias says the sheer cruelty of the attack has shocked people in their rural corner of Guatemala.

"Their only crime was to flee hunger and poverty," says William. "


Maybe so, but their big mistake was to listen to the Democrats signaling for
them to come. Expect more, a lot more.

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 3:59:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 06:08:01 -0800 (PST), trader_4 posted for all of us to
digest...
Funny how a whole generation grew up during the Great Depression and
became successful. And that included blacks and other minorities.
Then for 50 years we poured trillions into welfare programs that paid people
to have more kids and to not have a father around. Imagine if that money
had been left with the taxpayers, how many jobs it would have created,
the improved economy that would have benefited everyone. But Democrats
never learn, idiots like Ying Yang want to just give everyone $12K a year.

Redistribution of wealth. If someone gets $12K a year where does it come from
(assuming the gov't press' aren't involved) the taxpayers. The taxpayers have
less money so they spend less, inflation starts, growth stops. So if you are
making $48K a year your income just got cut by 1/4. Look at the Carter years,
do you want to repeat them? I don't.

--
Tekkie

Less spending doesn't cause inflation, exactly the opposite. If there is less
money available, less spending, prices decline. The math on someone earning
$48K paying $12K in any such scheme doesn't add up either. if the Democrats
had their way, people earning $48K would not pay much, if any, of the $12K
handout. They would put it mostly on higher incomes. Plus those that earned
$48K would also get the $12K, so they would be way ahead. It's still a stupid,
dangerous and bad idea though. Ying Yang is running for mayor of NYC.
That's a good place, his fellow lib de Blasio has that place pretty much
screwed already.

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:32:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 2/21/2021 6:08 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 09:50:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/21/2021 9:07 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 02:40:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 7:02:29 PM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:

Trump said he wanted to build a wall on the southern border of Colorado.
That might be a lot easier than trying to build it along the Mexican
border. Hey, maybe every state should have a wall along each of its
borders. That would keep the construction jobs going for a while.

Good idea. I'd be a breeze in Michigan. Two relatively short walls
and we can keep out both the Ohioans and Wisconsinites.

Cindy Hamilton

You still have Indiana and don't forget the boat people. There are
several thousand miles of coastline. The main part of the state is
surrounded on 3 sides by water bisecting you from the U.P.
Maybe you would be more defensible if you let Wisconsin have the U.P.



A couple of fast gun boats should take care of that. Snowmobile patrols
once it freezes. Would keep the Canadians out too.

A couple? Maybe you should look at a map. There is 3224 miles of
coastline according to NOAA. Maybe 300 if you are serious about it and
since some of that coast is abutting fairly narrow rivers, the boats
need to be a little closer together.

It was meant for a bit of humor, not a serious plan for military action.
I'll forward your plan to the MI Nat Guard though so they can do some
real planning.

Planning? WTF?

--
Tekkie

On Mon, 22 Feb 2021 05:53:34 -0800 (PST), trader_4 posted for all of us to
digest...


On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 3:59:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 06:08:01 -0800 (PST), trader_4 posted for all of us to
digest...
Funny how a whole generation grew up during the Great Depression and
became successful. And that included blacks and other minorities.
Then for 50 years we poured trillions into welfare programs that paid people
to have more kids and to not have a father around. Imagine if that money
had been left with the taxpayers, how many jobs it would have created,
the improved economy that would have benefited everyone. But Democrats
never learn, idiots like Ying Yang want to just give everyone $12K a year.

Redistribution of wealth. If someone gets $12K a year where does it come from
(assuming the gov't press' aren't involved) the taxpayers. The taxpayers have
less money so they spend less, inflation starts, growth stops. So if you are
making $48K a year your income just got cut by 1/4. Look at the Carter years,
do you want to repeat them? I don't.

--
Tekkie

Less spending doesn't cause inflation, exactly the opposite. If there is less
money available, less spending, prices decline. The math on someone earning
$48K paying $12K in any such scheme doesn't add up either. if the Democrats
had their way, people earning $48K would not pay much, if any, of the $12K
handout. They would put it mostly on higher incomes. Plus those that earned
$48K would also get the $12K, so they would be way ahead. It's still a stupid,
dangerous and bad idea though. Ying Yang is running for mayor of NYC.
That's a good place, his fellow lib de Blasio has that place pretty much
screwed already.

Got to agree with you on that.

--
Tekkie

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Feb 2021 02:40:02 -0800 (PST),
" wrote:


But people tend not to value things that they get for free. Make those

I agree, and it's not just kids.

kids pay _something_ for their higher education, but not so they leave
school with crushing debt.

I agree.

FWIW easy abiltiy to borrow money has been blamed for increasing
tuition.

Cindy Hamilton

"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 19 Feb 2021 02:40:02 -0800 (PST),
" wrote:


But people tend not to value things that they get for free. Make those

I agree, and it's not just kids.

kids pay _something_ for their higher education, but not so they leave
school with crushing debt.

I agree.

FWIW easy abiltiy to borrow money has been blamed for increasing
tuition.

Corse it is. While ever enough student and their parents keep paying
the high tuition, might as well gouge them is what drives that.

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 18 Feb 2021 23:09:11 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 20:14:00 -0500, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Feb 2021 17:33:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/17/2021 5:04 PM, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.


**My father graduated high school in 1910. High school was free then.
Now a high school diploma won't get you much, the country is much richer
and still free education hasn't gone any farther than high school. In
fact in 1957 Indiana University and most state schools charge in-state
residents no tuition (although there were fees which were not nothing)
and we've gone backwards on that.

As an aside, after HS my father went on to dental school for 4 years,
commuting 50 miles each way every day by train, doing homework on the
train, and working in his father's hardware store when he got home.




Paying off all loans will **** off everyone that paid their way through
already. Everyone talks about forgiving the debt, no one asks why it
cost so mush to go to school in the first place.

Not everyone benefits from college, some would to better in a trade or
technical school rather than a degree is 4th century Greek sculpture

Yeah, I forgot to include that part. I think 10,000 is plenty and the
other 40,000 can go to other categories of people who also need it or to
other expenses.

No one put a guy to their head to make them borrow money. They could
have gone to a local junior college (not free) but lived at home, where
at least they don't charge for the room.

If they get 10,000 off, they should be happy.

I borrowed $40K for college and my wife borrowed $35K. For both of us, the
loans have been paid off long ago, but the experience leads me to believe
that, depending on specific requirements and restrictions, higher education
should be free*, just as formal K-12 education is free*.

*Yes, I know that nothing is free, so I don't need a reminder but I also
know that a better educated workforce translates to a much better
population overall.

The requirements and restrictions mentioned above could be things like
specific education programs supported rather than blanket tuition
avoidance, specific colleges allowed to participate rather than any old
group calling itself a 'university', and requirements on students to
maintain attendance and grade requirements.

It's hard to argue that we don't need more doctors and nurses, but many of
them come out of college with as much as $250K in student debt. Offering
them $10K in debt relief doesn't seem to cut it, IMHO, so I think there
needs to be some flexibility in the program.

On the radio today, Representative Ayala Pressley (someething like that)
said that 80% of people owed less than 35,000. So IMO for them,
10,000 would be a big chunk of that. (If her proposal was only UP TO
50,000, so by her they woudl get 35,000.)

But the show started off with a caller who said 10K would only be a
third of his interest!

I wonder what interest they are paying. I wonder if there is a legal,
reasonable way to lower it closer to what would be charged now. You can
refinance a mortgage.

Another caller had 40,000 in loans but he agreed with me, thought 10,000
would be a help and planned to pay his 30,000 himself.

Anoher owed 14,000 after college but 140,000 after grad school. Didn't
say if it was a masters but must have been a PhD. She didn't expect it
to be so much but said she forgot about the merit scholarships she had,
the need-based scholarship, her parents' money, and maybe one other
thing that had decreased her expenses in college. So the 140K was big
surprise.

And Joe had itemized how much his kids owed, all 3 between iirc 135, and
150K.

On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 00:11:01 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 18 Feb 2021 23:09:11 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 20:14:00 -0500, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Feb 2021 17:33:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/17/2021 5:04 PM, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.


**My father graduated high school in 1910. High school was free then.
Now a high school diploma won't get you much, the country is much richer
and still free education hasn't gone any farther than high school. In
fact in 1957 Indiana University and most state schools charge in-state
residents no tuition (although there were fees which were not nothing)
and we've gone backwards on that.

As an aside, after HS my father went on to dental school for 4 years,
commuting 50 miles each way every day by train, doing homework on the
train, and working in his father's hardware store when he got home.




Paying off all loans will **** off everyone that paid their way through
already. Everyone talks about forgiving the debt, no one asks why it
cost so mush to go to school in the first place.

Not everyone benefits from college, some would to better in a trade or
technical school rather than a degree is 4th century Greek sculpture

Yeah, I forgot to include that part. I think 10,000 is plenty and the
other 40,000 can go to other categories of people who also need it or to
other expenses.

No one put a guy to their head to make them borrow money. They could
have gone to a local junior college (not free) but lived at home, where
at least they don't charge for the room.

If they get 10,000 off, they should be happy.

I borrowed $40K for college and my wife borrowed $35K. For both of us, the
loans have been paid off long ago, but the experience leads me to believe
that, depending on specific requirements and restrictions, higher education
should be free*, just as formal K-12 education is free*.

*Yes, I know that nothing is free, so I don't need a reminder but I also
know that a better educated workforce translates to a much better
population overall.

The requirements and restrictions mentioned above could be things like
specific education programs supported rather than blanket tuition
avoidance, specific colleges allowed to participate rather than any old
group calling itself a 'university', and requirements on students to
maintain attendance and grade requirements.

It's hard to argue that we don't need more doctors and nurses, but many of
them come out of college with as much as $250K in student debt. Offering
them $10K in debt relief doesn't seem to cut it, IMHO, so I think there
needs to be some flexibility in the program.

On the radio today, Representative Ayala Pressley (someething like that)
said that 80% of people owed less than 35,000. So IMO for them,
10,000 would be a big chunk of that. (If her proposal was only UP TO
50,000, so by her they woudl get 35,000.)

But the show started off with a caller who said 10K would only be a
third of his interest!

I wonder what interest they are paying. I wonder if there is a legal,
reasonable way to lower it closer to what would be charged now. You can
refinance a mortgage.

Another caller had 40,000 in loans but he agreed with me, thought 10,000
would be a help and planned to pay his 30,000 himself.

Anoher owed 14,000 after college but 140,000 after grad school. Didn't
say if it was a masters but must have been a PhD. She didn't expect it
to be so much but said she forgot about the merit scholarships she had,
the need-based scholarship, her parents' money, and maybe one other
thing that had decreased her expenses in college. So the 140K was big
surprise.

And Joe had itemized how much his kids owed, all 3 between iirc 135, and
150K.

One huge problem is you can defer payments as long as you are still in
school so people keep going back to the well piling on useless degrees
and racking up more debt that they are avoiding. My SIL is a good
example. He has a masters in some kind of ocean science and beach
restoration and then went to law school. When he finally stopped
racking up debt he had as much as his mortgage and ended up with a job
as a land manager he could have got with a 4 year degree. He passed
the bar in Florida and moved to Northern Michigan where it is not
recognized. He said he didn't want to be a lawyer anyway. Not a lot of
beaches or oceans there either.

It just goes to show you education doesn't necessarily make you smart.

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 1:52:05 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 00:11:01 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 18 Feb 2021 23:09:11 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 20:14:00 -0500, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Feb 2021 17:33:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/17/2021 5:04 PM, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.


**My father graduated high school in 1910. High school was free then.
Now a high school diploma won't get you much, the country is much richer
and still free education hasn't gone any farther than high school. In
fact in 1957 Indiana University and most state schools charge in-state
residents no tuition (although there were fees which were not nothing)
and we've gone backwards on that.

As an aside, after HS my father went on to dental school for 4 years,
commuting 50 miles each way every day by train, doing homework on the
train, and working in his father's hardware store when he got home.




Paying off all loans will **** off everyone that paid their way through
already. Everyone talks about forgiving the debt, no one asks why it
cost so mush to go to school in the first place.

Not everyone benefits from college, some would to better in a trade or
technical school rather than a degree is 4th century Greek sculpture

Yeah, I forgot to include that part. I think 10,000 is plenty and the
other 40,000 can go to other categories of people who also need it or to
other expenses.

No one put a guy to their head to make them borrow money. They could
have gone to a local junior college (not free) but lived at home, where
at least they don't charge for the room.

If they get 10,000 off, they should be happy.

I borrowed $40K for college and my wife borrowed $35K. For both of us, the
loans have been paid off long ago, but the experience leads me to believe
that, depending on specific requirements and restrictions, higher education
should be free*, just as formal K-12 education is free*.

*Yes, I know that nothing is free, so I don't need a reminder but I also
know that a better educated workforce translates to a much better
population overall.

The requirements and restrictions mentioned above could be things like
specific education programs supported rather than blanket tuition
avoidance, specific colleges allowed to participate rather than any old
group calling itself a 'university', and requirements on students to
maintain attendance and grade requirements.

It's hard to argue that we don't need more doctors and nurses, but many of
them come out of college with as much as $250K in student debt. Offering
them $10K in debt relief doesn't seem to cut it, IMHO, so I think there
needs to be some flexibility in the program.

On the radio today, Representative Ayala Pressley (someething like that)
said that 80% of people owed less than 35,000. So IMO for them,
10,000 would be a big chunk of that. (If her proposal was only UP TO
50,000, so by her they woudl get 35,000.)

But the show started off with a caller who said 10K would only be a
third of his interest!

I wonder what interest they are paying. I wonder if there is a legal,
reasonable way to lower it closer to what would be charged now. You can
refinance a mortgage.

Another caller had 40,000 in loans but he agreed with me, thought 10,000
would be a help and planned to pay his 30,000 himself.

Anoher owed 14,000 after college but 140,000 after grad school. Didn't
say if it was a masters but must have been a PhD. She didn't expect it
to be so much but said she forgot about the merit scholarships she had,
the need-based scholarship, her parents' money, and maybe one other
thing that had decreased her expenses in college. So the 140K was big
surprise.

And Joe had itemized how much his kids owed, all 3 between iirc 135, and
150K.
One huge problem is you can defer payments as long as you are still in
school so people keep going back to the well piling on useless degrees
and racking up more debt that they are avoiding. My SIL is a good
example. He has a masters in some kind of ocean science and beach
restoration and then went to law school. When he finally stopped
racking up debt he had as much as his mortgage and ended up with a job
as a land manager he could have got with a 4 year degree. He passed
the bar in Florida and moved to Northern Michigan where it is not
recognized. He said he didn't want to be a lawyer anyway. Not a lot of
beaches or oceans there either.

It just goes to show you education doesn't necessarily make you smart.

Now that is one sad story. I had a couple dates with a young woman long
time ago. She had a degree in biology and was complaining because the
best job she could find was working for the govt on commercial fishing
boats to monitor the catch and it didn't pay well. Her whole attitude was
the country was going to hell, there aren't any good jobs anymore, etc.
Of course had she taken some courses in computer programming or better
yet gotten a degree in that, she would have been in a much better position
and there were lots of job openings, paying well.
I didn't tell her that, but I did say that there are many opportunities out
there, including starting a small business, etc and that if you just focus
on the negative, it can be self defeating. She immediately attacked me
because I was successful and doing well and that was pretty much the
end. I guess she preferred to find someone working at McDonalds.
Go figure.