CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.


**My father graduated high school in 1910. High school was free then.
Now a high school diploma won't get you much, the country is much richer
and still free education hasn't gone any farther than high school. In
fact in 1957 Indiana University and most state schools charge in-state
residents no tuition (although there were fees which were not nothing)
and we've gone backwards on that.

As an aside, after HS my father went on to dental school for 4 years,
commuting 50 miles each way every day by train, doing homework on the
train, and working in his father's hardware store when he got home.

On 2/17/2021 5:04 PM, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.


**My father graduated high school in 1910. High school was free then.
Now a high school diploma won't get you much, the country is much richer
and still free education hasn't gone any farther than high school. In
fact in 1957 Indiana University and most state schools charge in-state
residents no tuition (although there were fees which were not nothing)
and we've gone backwards on that.

As an aside, after HS my father went on to dental school for 4 years,
commuting 50 miles each way every day by train, doing homework on the
train, and working in his father's hardware store when he got home.




Paying off all loans will **** off everyone that paid their way through
already. Everyone talks about forgiving the debt, no one asks why it
cost so mush to go to school in the first place.

Not everyone benefits from college, some would to better in a trade or
technical school rather than a degree is 4th century Greek sculpture

"micky" wrote in message
...
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.


**My father graduated high school in 1910. High school was free then.
Now a high school diploma won't get you much, the country is much richer
and still free education hasn't gone any farther than high school. In
fact in 1957 Indiana University and most state schools charge in-state
residents no tuition (although there were fees which were not nothing)
and we've gone backwards on that.

We did have free uni and what we call TAFE., post school technical
college etc for a while, by our labor party, close to your dems.

There is still a bit of that for some specific groups.

Eire still has it free, even for doctors etc.

As an aside, after HS my father went on to dental school for 4 years,
commuting 50 miles each way every day by train, doing homework on the
train, and working in his father's hardware store when he got home.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 10:02:16 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile cretin's latest troll**** unread

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 5:04:20 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want

50K-10K obviously. Feel free to speak out against AOC, Bernie, etc
at any time.

and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.

So what? He's the president, but many others in your party, who
he keeps caving in to, want more freebies, using borrowed money.
He just killed 10K+ high paying jobs on the XL pipeline so more
stupid things to appease people like you doesn't seem unexpected.
Feel free to condemn killing those jobs in the midst of a recession
and Covid at any time.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Feb 2021 17:33:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/17/2021 5:04 PM, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.


**My father graduated high school in 1910. High school was free then.
Now a high school diploma won't get you much, the country is much richer
and still free education hasn't gone any farther than high school. In
fact in 1957 Indiana University and most state schools charge in-state
residents no tuition (although there were fees which were not nothing)
and we've gone backwards on that.

As an aside, after HS my father went on to dental school for 4 years,
commuting 50 miles each way every day by train, doing homework on the
train, and working in his father's hardware store when he got home.




Paying off all loans will **** off everyone that paid their way through
already. Everyone talks about forgiving the debt, no one asks why it
cost so mush to go to school in the first place.

Not everyone benefits from college, some would to better in a trade or
technical school rather than a degree is 4th century Greek sculpture

Yeah, I forgot to include that part. I think 10,000 is plenty and the
other 40,000 can go to other categories of people who also need it or to
other expenses.

No one put a guy to their head to make them borrow money. They could
have gone to a local junior college (not free) but lived at home, where
at least they don't charge for the room.

If they get 10,000 off, they should be happy.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Feb 2021 15:33:19 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 5:04:20 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want

50K-10K obviously. Feel free to speak out against AOC, Bernie, etc

I've never said anything good about them. Have I? I don't know if
I've ever posted about either of them but they're both jackassses.

at any time.

and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.

So what? He's the president, but many others in your party, who

Stop your partisan crap. it's so boring. Poor you, a man without a
party.



he keeps caving in to, want more freebies, using borrowed money.
He just killed 10K+ high paying jobs on the XL pipeline so more
stupid things to appease people like you doesn't seem unexpected.
Feel free to condemn killing those jobs in the midst of a recession
and Covid at any time.

On 02/17/2021 03:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/17/2021 5:04 PM, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.


**My father graduated high school in 1910. High school was free then.
Now a high school diploma won't get you much, the country is much richer
and still free education hasn't gone any farther than high school. In
fact in 1957 Indiana University and most state schools charge in-state
residents no tuition (although there were fees which were not nothing)
and we've gone backwards on that.

As an aside, after HS my father went on to dental school for 4 years,
commuting 50 miles each way every day by train, doing homework on the
train, and working in his father's hardware store when he got home.




Paying off all loans will **** off everyone that paid their way through
already. Everyone talks about forgiving the debt, no one asks why it
cost so mush to go to school in the first place.

iirc tuition when I went was $2000 a year; it's now $55,600. Inflation
would account for $15,000. In the '60s RPI ranked at the top of the
engineering colleges trading places with CalTech and MIT for 1st. Now it
ranks down with Moosenuts State.

But, it has the highest paid president in the country, a black female to
check the right boxes, and a really spiffy performing arts center:

https://empac.rpi.edu/about

with some captivating woke presentations

https://empac.rpi.edu/events/2021/decolonizing-language



Needless to say the alumni fundraising can FOAD.

On 2/17/2021 11:08 PM, rbowman wrote:


iirc tuition when I went was $2000 a year; it's now $55,600. Inflation
would account for $15,000.Â* In the '60s RPI ranked at the top of the
engineering colleges trading places with CalTech and MIT for 1st. Now it
ranks down with Moosenuts State.

But, it has the highest paid president in the country, a black female to
check the right boxes, and a really spiffy performing arts center:

https://empac.rpi.edu/about

with some captivating woke presentations

https://empac.rpi.edu/events/2021/decolonizing-language



Needless to say the alumni fundraising can FOAD.



Hey, that's tomorrow. Let us know how it was.


I went to Temple and PA state residents is $17,000 I paid less than
$1000 IIRC

My brother went to Drexel and that is now $55,000. Would not matter for
him, he had a few scholarships and never paid anything.

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 17:04:13 -0500, micky
wrote:

CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.


Everything I see coming from the democrats will simply lead to higher
inflation. It is easy to point out the federal student loan program
allowed university tuition to skyrocket, now they want it to be on the
backs of the tax payer.
I can also easily point out a lot of those degrees don't actually
teach anyone how to do anything useful. That is why there are so many
graduates still sleeping in Mom's basement.
If they want to subsidize STEM degrees it might make some sense but
art history? Really? I don't see that job advertised very often maybe
never. That kind of job is usually taken by a person who went to
school when they were 5 or 6 and never left. They just work there now
making more people who can't find a job.

On 2/17/21 6:33 PM, trader_4 wrote:
He just killed 10K+ high paying jobs on the XL pipeline so more
stupid things to appease people like you doesn't seem unexpected.


Liquid energy still needs to be moved so someone will benefit. Who owns the trains?

On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 5:33:56 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/17/2021 5:04 PM, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.


**My father graduated high school in 1910. High school was free then.
Now a high school diploma won't get you much, the country is much richer
and still free education hasn't gone any farther than high school. In
fact in 1957 Indiana University and most state schools charge in-state
residents no tuition (although there were fees which were not nothing)
and we've gone backwards on that.

As an aside, after HS my father went on to dental school for 4 years,
commuting 50 miles each way every day by train, doing homework on the
train, and working in his father's hardware store when he got home.




Paying off all loans will **** off everyone that paid their way through
already. Everyone talks about forgiving the debt, no one asks why it
cost so mush to go to school in the first place.

Not everyone benefits from college, some would to better in a trade or
technical school rather than a degree is 4th century Greek sculpture

I doubt that anybody getting a degree in 4th Century Greek sculpture
could hack it at trade or technical school. Those disciplines require
aptitude.

Now, don't get me started on how useless most young people are because
they've spent their whole lives twiddling cell phone buttons or going to
"maker academy" where nothing has to be kludged together.

"Here, go into those woods and build a reasonably weatherproof structure
from the stuff that people have dumped there."

Cindy Hamilton

On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 8:15:56 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Feb 2021 15:33:19 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 5:04:20 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want

50K-10K obviously. Feel free to speak out against AOC, Bernie, etc
I've never said anything good about them. Have I? I don't know if
I've ever posted about either of them but they're both jackassses.
at any time.

and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.

So what? He's the president, but many others in your party, who
Stop your partisan crap. it's so boring. Poor you, a man without a
party.

ROFL

I should stop the partisan crap. One post, one thread after another from
you, always bitching about Republicans or something someone said about
a Democrat, but never ever about a Democrat. Above, is the only time
I've ever seen you complain about any Democrat. Half a sentence.
This thread is because someone said a real leader would give a $50K
college deal. BFD. How about Cuomo? Right now? He's mired in scandal,
covered up the nursing home deaths in NY. But no, some lameos on CNN
said something that could be interpreted as negative about Biden, boom
you're on it.

In article ,
says...

I can also easily point out a lot of those degrees don't actually
teach anyone how to do anything useful. That is why there are so many
graduates still sleeping in Mom's basement.
If they want to subsidize STEM degrees it might make some sense but
art history? Really? I don't see that job advertised very often maybe
never. That kind of job is usually taken by a person who went to
school when they were 5 or 6 and never left. They just work there now
making more people who can't find a job.



Yes, there are lots of degrees that there are very few job openings for.
My son took some kind of business course about 20 years ago. Took him a
bout 15 years to find a job that paid very much in the field. Before
that he worked at jobs that was along the line of his education,but
they did not pay very much over most manual labor jobs in the area.
He did hve about a 3.5 GPA so that should have landed him some good job
offerings after graduation, but it did not. Found out that most of the
job offerings in the field required several years of experiance.

It amazes me how the colleges can get big fees for courses that the end
result is jobs that do not pay much.

In article ,
says...

I doubt that anybody getting a degree in 4th Century Greek sculpture
could hack it at trade or technical school. Those disciplines require
aptitude.

Now, don't get me started on how useless most young people are because
they've spent their whole lives twiddling cell phone buttons or going to
"maker academy" where nothing has to be kludged together.



Yes, today the young people do not seem to be able to do simple repair
things around the house.

On 02/18/2021 05:04 AM, wrote:
"Here, go into those woods and build a reasonably weatherproof structure
from the stuff that people have dumped there."

I spent a winter building shortwave radios out of junk I found in the
desert. Shotgun shells make great coil forms. Punch out the primer and
they're ready to screw to your breadboard.

I did splurge on a RadioShack FET for a transmitter. I made a CW contact
with a guy in Vegas. He said my frequency was drifting a little which
was rather amazing for the pile of junk (literally) I was transmitting with.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:54:14 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I can also easily point out a lot of those degrees don't actually
teach anyone how to do anything useful. That is why there are so many
graduates still sleeping in Mom's basement.
If they want to subsidize STEM degrees it might make some sense but
art history? Really? I don't see that job advertised very often maybe
never. That kind of job is usually taken by a person who went to
school when they were 5 or 6 and never left. They just work there now
making more people who can't find a job.



Yes, there are lots of degrees that there are very few job openings for.
My son took some kind of business course about 20 years ago. Took him a
bout 15 years to find a job that paid very much in the field. Before
that he worked at jobs that was along the line of his education,but
they did not pay very much over most manual labor jobs in the area.
He did hve about a 3.5 GPA so that should have landed him some good job
offerings after graduation, but it did not. Found out that most of the
job offerings in the field required several years of experiance.

It amazes me how the colleges can get big fees for courses that the end
result is jobs that do not pay much.

When a decent electrician makes $50k a year and up in wage depressed
Florida and find a job in the morning, it does make you wonder why a
BA is really worth much, particularly if you start your life $30k in
debt.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 06:58:19 -0500, Joe Bribem
wrote:

On 2/17/21 6:33 PM, trader_4 wrote:
He just killed 10K+ high paying jobs on the XL pipeline so more
stupid things to appease people like you doesn't seem unexpected.


Liquid energy still needs to be moved so someone will benefit. Who owns the trains?

Warren Buffett.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:56:45 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I doubt that anybody getting a degree in 4th Century Greek sculpture
could hack it at trade or technical school. Those disciplines require
aptitude.

Now, don't get me started on how useless most young people are because
they've spent their whole lives twiddling cell phone buttons or going to
"maker academy" where nothing has to be kludged together.



Yes, today the young people do not seem to be able to do simple repair
things around the house.

That is only because they never had a chance to be taught. "Shop"
disappeared from middle and high school in the 70s (probably because
educators didn't know which end of a hammer you hold) and we are
seeing the fallout now. Latinos are kicking our ass in the trades. If
you don't speak a little Spanish you can't be a job super or a
contractor these days. I was helped being an inspector because I took
a Spanish class and I made the extra effort to expand that "do you
have a telephone" stuff into the terms used in construction.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:54:14 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I can also easily point out a lot of those degrees don't actually
teach anyone how to do anything useful. That is why there are so many
graduates still sleeping in Mom's basement.
If they want to subsidize STEM degrees it might make some sense but
art history? Really? I don't see that job advertised very often maybe
never. That kind of job is usually taken by a person who went to
school when they were 5 or 6 and never left. They just work there now
making more people who can't find a job.



Yes, there are lots of degrees that there are very few job openings for.
My son took some kind of business course about 20 years ago. Took him a
bout 15 years to find a job that paid very much in the field. Before
that he worked at jobs that was along the line of his education,but
they did not pay very much over most manual labor jobs in the area.
He did hve about a 3.5 GPA so that should have landed him some good job
offerings after graduation, but it did not. Found out that most of the
job offerings in the field required several years of experiance.

It amazes me how the colleges can get big fees for courses that the end
result is jobs that do not pay much.

When a decent electrician makes $50k a year and up in wage depressed
Florida and find a job in the morning, it does make you wonder why a
BA is really worth much, particularly if you start your life $30k in
debt.

Its different tho if you want to do some work. If you want
to be an engineer, doctor, dentist etc, you don't even get to
start without a degree. Nurses too now in many jurisdictions.

And with plenty of more than menial office jobs they don't even
consider your application at all if you don't have any qualifications.

writes:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 06:58:19 -0500, Joe Bribem
wrote:

On 2/17/21 6:33 PM, trader_4 wrote:
He just killed 10K+ high paying jobs on the XL pipeline so more
stupid things to appease people like you doesn't seem unexpected.


Liquid energy still needs to be moved so someone will benefit. Who owns the trains?

Warren Buffett.


Not an expert on finance either, it seems.

While Warren Buffett owns large stake in Union Pacific (I'm also a part owner myself),
there is also BNSF, NSC (part owner here) and a handful of smaller players.

All of which are publicly owned.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 03:51:51 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Its different tho

Of course, you auto-contradicting senile pest! BG

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

writes:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:56:45 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I doubt that anybody getting a degree in 4th Century Greek sculpture
could hack it at trade or technical school. Those disciplines require
aptitude.

Now, don't get me started on how useless most young people are because
they've spent their whole lives twiddling cell phone buttons or going to
"maker academy" where nothing has to be kludged together.



Yes, today the young people do not seem to be able to do simple repair
things around the house.

That is only because they never had a chance to be taught. "Shop"
disappeared from middle and high school in the 70s (probably because

Really? Must be a Florida thing. There's still shop class
in high school here in California (called industrial arts).

educators didn't know which end of a hammer you hold) and we are

It's pretty telling that you can't make a simple statement
without resorting to insult.

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 9:54:21 AM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I can also easily point out a lot of those degrees don't actually
teach anyone how to do anything useful. That is why there are so many
graduates still sleeping in Mom's basement.
If they want to subsidize STEM degrees it might make some sense but
art history? Really? I don't see that job advertised very often maybe
never. That kind of job is usually taken by a person who went to
school when they were 5 or 6 and never left. They just work there now
making more people who can't find a job.


Yes, there are lots of degrees that there are very few job openings for.
My son took some kind of business course about 20 years ago. Took him a
bout 15 years to find a job that paid very much in the field. Before
that he worked at jobs that was along the line of his education,but
they did not pay very much over most manual labor jobs in the area.
He did hve about a 3.5 GPA so that should have landed him some good job
offerings after graduation, but it did not. Found out that most of the
job offerings in the field required several years of experiance.

It amazes me how the colleges can get big fees for courses that the end
result is jobs that do not pay much.

Before jobs became so specialized, it was possible to major in, say, English
Literature and get a good job at a corporation. Those same jobs now require
a degree from an accredited business school.

Universities have not quite caught up to the idea that their output should
match the demand.

Cindy Hamilton

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:56:45 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I doubt that anybody getting a degree in 4th Century Greek sculpture
could hack it at trade or technical school. Those disciplines require
aptitude.

Now, don't get me started on how useless most young people are because
they've spent their whole lives twiddling cell phone buttons or going to
"maker academy" where nothing has to be kludged together.



Yes, today the young people do not seem to be able to do simple repair
things around the house.

That is only because they never had a chance to be taught.

I didn't need to be taught, I learned it for myself and that's
what most who are any good at doing simple repairs around
the house get to do simple repairs around the house.

I built my own quite sophisticated passive solar house
on a bare block of land that way and worked out all
the non obvious detail by wandering around the
houses being built in the area after hours.

And a young bloke who I have known since he was a
preschool kid is still doing that right now when he is
getting his house built by a builder, telling the builder
how he wants stuff done with the concrete outside the
house etc etc etc.

"Shop" disappeared from middle and high school in the
70s (probably because educators didn't know which end
of a hammer you hold) and we are seeing the fallout now.

You don't need to be taught that stuff. And even
in the 70s most couldn't work out why their lawn
mower stopped working and I did all the basic
stuff like fixing the neighbours kids bikes etc.

Latinos are kicking our ass in the trades.

Not because they still get taught shop in their schools.

If you don't speak a little Spanish you can't be a job
super or a contractor these days. I was helped being
an inspector because I took a Spanish class and I
made the extra effort to expand that "do you have
a telephone" stuff into the terms used in construction.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 06:55:51 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:34:04 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 06:58:19 -0500, Joe Bribem
wrote:

On 2/17/21 6:33 PM, trader_4 wrote:
He just killed 10K+ high paying jobs on the XL pipeline so more
stupid things to appease people like you doesn't seem unexpected.


Liquid energy still needs to be moved so someone will benefit. Who owns the trains?

Warren Buffett.


Not an expert on finance either, it seems.

While Warren Buffett owns large stake in Union Pacific (I'm also a part owner myself),
there is also BNSF, NSC (part owner here) and a handful of smaller players.

All of which are publicly owned.

Buffett owns BNSF.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:39:42 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:56:45 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I doubt that anybody getting a degree in 4th Century Greek sculpture
could hack it at trade or technical school. Those disciplines require
aptitude.

Now, don't get me started on how useless most young people are because
they've spent their whole lives twiddling cell phone buttons or going to
"maker academy" where nothing has to be kludged together.



Yes, today the young people do not seem to be able to do simple repair
things around the house.

That is only because they never had a chance to be taught. "Shop"
disappeared from middle and high school in the 70s (probably because

Really? Must be a Florida thing. There's still shop class
in high school here in California (called industrial arts).

Forbes disagrees with you.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarabro...h=11b97aa9541f

"Shop classes are being eliminated from California schools due to the
University of California/California State 'a-g' requirements. 'The
intent of the 'a-g' subject requirements is to ensure that students
can participate fully in the first-year program at the University in a
wide variety of fields of study.'"

educators didn't know which end of a hammer you hold) and we are

It's pretty telling that you can't make a simple statement
without resorting to insult.

See above

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 10:18:08 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 9:54:21 AM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I can also easily point out a lot of those degrees don't actually
teach anyone how to do anything useful. That is why there are so many
graduates still sleeping in Mom's basement.
If they want to subsidize STEM degrees it might make some sense but
art history? Really? I don't see that job advertised very often maybe
never. That kind of job is usually taken by a person who went to
school when they were 5 or 6 and never left. They just work there now
making more people who can't find a job.


Yes, there are lots of degrees that there are very few job openings for.
My son took some kind of business course about 20 years ago. Took him a
bout 15 years to find a job that paid very much in the field. Before
that he worked at jobs that was along the line of his education,but
they did not pay very much over most manual labor jobs in the area.
He did hve about a 3.5 GPA so that should have landed him some good job
offerings after graduation, but it did not. Found out that most of the
job offerings in the field required several years of experiance.

It amazes me how the colleges can get big fees for courses that the end
result is jobs that do not pay much.

Before jobs became so specialized, it was possible to major in, say, English
Literature and get a good job at a corporation. Those same jobs now require
a degree from an accredited business school.

Universities have not quite caught up to the idea that their output should
match the demand.

Cindy Hamilton

These days if you don't have a significant amount of computer science
in your quiver, you better be able to float drywall, wire or paste
pipe.
An English major is competing with a million other English majors for
a thousand jobs in journalism.
As often as not that is going to be TV so you better be cute and look
good on camera. Newspapers are circling the bowl.

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 15:33:19 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 5:04:20 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want

50K-10K obviously. Feel free to speak out against AOC, Bernie, etc
at any time.

and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.

So what? He's the president, but many others in your party, who
he keeps caving in to, want more freebies, using borrowed money.
He just killed 10K+ high paying jobs on the XL pipeline so more

What I'm hearing is that about 1000 temporary jobs were killed by Biden's
executive order, so the 10K+ that you're talking about were probably future
hires.

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/01/22/keystone-pipeline-jobs-lost-joe-biden-executive-order-cancel-fact-check/6673822002/
https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/verify/verify-yes-thousands-jobs-lost-after-biden-axes-keystone-xl-pipeline-but-not-as-many-as-these-posts-claim/77-8955155e-457d-4fc2-bbd9-35ea8df83ee3

It's also interesting that only about 1.2 miles of pipeline have been
completed, so Biden caught the problem before it was too late. The pipeline
was a very bad idea and I'm happy to see it canceled.

stupid things to appease people like you doesn't seem unexpected.
Feel free to condemn killing those jobs in the midst of a recession
and Covid at any time.

I would change condemn to support.

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 20:14:00 -0500, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Feb 2021 17:33:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/17/2021 5:04 PM, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too soon
for there to be anything on the web.


**My father graduated high school in 1910. High school was free then.
Now a high school diploma won't get you much, the country is much richer
and still free education hasn't gone any farther than high school. In
fact in 1957 Indiana University and most state schools charge in-state
residents no tuition (although there were fees which were not nothing)
and we've gone backwards on that.

As an aside, after HS my father went on to dental school for 4 years,
commuting 50 miles each way every day by train, doing homework on the
train, and working in his father's hardware store when he got home.




Paying off all loans will **** off everyone that paid their way through
already. Everyone talks about forgiving the debt, no one asks why it
cost so mush to go to school in the first place.

Not everyone benefits from college, some would to better in a trade or
technical school rather than a degree is 4th century Greek sculpture

Yeah, I forgot to include that part. I think 10,000 is plenty and the
other 40,000 can go to other categories of people who also need it or to
other expenses.

No one put a guy to their head to make them borrow money. They could
have gone to a local junior college (not free) but lived at home, where
at least they don't charge for the room.

If they get 10,000 off, they should be happy.

I borrowed $40K for college and my wife borrowed $35K. For both of us, the
loans have been paid off long ago, but the experience leads me to believe
that, depending on specific requirements and restrictions, higher education
should be free*, just as formal K-12 education is free*.

*Yes, I know that nothing is free, so I don't need a reminder but I also
know that a better educated workforce translates to a much better
population overall.

The requirements and restrictions mentioned above could be things like
specific education programs supported rather than blanket tuition
avoidance, specific colleges allowed to participate rather than any old
group calling itself a 'university', and requirements on students to
maintain attendance and grade requirements.

It's hard to argue that we don't need more doctors and nurses, but many of
them come out of college with as much as $250K in student debt. Offering
them $10K in debt relief doesn't seem to cut it, IMHO, so I think there
needs to be some flexibility in the program.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:39:42 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:56:45 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I doubt that anybody getting a degree in 4th Century Greek sculpture
could hack it at trade or technical school. Those disciplines require
aptitude.

Now, don't get me started on how useless most young people are because
they've spent their whole lives twiddling cell phone buttons or going to
"maker academy" where nothing has to be kludged together.



Yes, today the young people do not seem to be able to do simple repair
things around the house.

That is only because they never had a chance to be taught. "Shop"
disappeared from middle and high school in the 70s (probably because

Really? Must be a Florida thing. There's still shop class
in high school here in California (called industrial arts).

educators didn't know which end of a hammer you hold) and we are

It's pretty telling that you can't make a simple statement
without resorting to insult.

The high schools that I'm familiar with in North and South Dakota still
offer wood shop and home economics, the same as they have since the 1960's
or even longer. My sister tells me that the ND HS where her kids went
offered wood shop, auto shop, and home ec. When I lived in Kansas, the
local HS offered wood shop, home ec, and computer networking. My son opted
for the networking classes, which has served him well in his adult working
life but I bet if I handed him a piece of wood and a hand saw he'd take a
moment to figure it out.

Missing from all of those schools is some kind of metal working class. You
get a little of that in an auto shop class, but not enough to make it
somewhat equivalent to what they teach in wood shop. I still use what I
learned in the mechanical drawing classes some 40 years ago. Before I build
a woodworking project, my weekend hobby, I draw the front, side, and top
views that I learned in mechanical drawing. I sometimes draw the 3D
perspective angle, but it's not usually needed.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:34:04 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 06:58:19 -0500, Joe Bribem
wrote:

On 2/17/21 6:33 PM, trader_4 wrote:
He just killed 10K+ high paying jobs on the XL pipeline so more
stupid things to appease people like you doesn't seem unexpected.


Liquid energy still needs to be moved so someone will benefit. Who owns the trains?

Warren Buffett.


Not an expert on finance either, it seems.

If you find something where he might be an expert, please raise a flag. I
haven't found anything yet but there must be something, somewhere.


While Warren Buffett owns large stake in Union Pacific (I'm also a part owner myself),
there is also BNSF, NSC (part owner here) and a handful of smaller players.

All of which are publicly owned.

"Jim Joyce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 20:14:00 -0500, micky wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Feb 2021 17:33:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 2/17/2021 5:04 PM, micky wrote:
CNN had two people on to talk about the proposed rebate on college
loans. Because I only listen, I don't know who they were. Sometimes
one is from each party but this time, they might both have been
Democrats.

Anyone, one of them was wanting a $50,000 rebate instead of 10 like Joe
wants (and he said no to 50). And she said roughly, a real leader
would do something about college tuition.

What a jackass. Doesn't she pay attention? In the campaign and again
last night Joe said that junior college** should be free and state
schools should be free to those with parents earning under 75K or 100K,
something like that. What more does she want and Biden has been
saying
it for months. I'm going to try to find out who she was. It's too
soon
for there to be anything on the web.


**My father graduated high school in 1910. High school was free then.
Now a high school diploma won't get you much, the country is much
richer
and still free education hasn't gone any farther than high school. In
fact in 1957 Indiana University and most state schools charge in-state
residents no tuition (although there were fees which were not nothing)
and we've gone backwards on that.

As an aside, after HS my father went on to dental school for 4 years,
commuting 50 miles each way every day by train, doing homework on the
train, and working in his father's hardware store when he got home.




Paying off all loans will **** off everyone that paid their way through
already. Everyone talks about forgiving the debt, no one asks why it
cost so mush to go to school in the first place.

Not everyone benefits from college, some would to better in a trade or
technical school rather than a degree is 4th century Greek sculpture

Yeah, I forgot to include that part. I think 10,000 is plenty and the
other 40,000 can go to other categories of people who also need it or to
other expenses.

No one put a guy to their head to make them borrow money. They could
have gone to a local junior college (not free) but lived at home, where
at least they don't charge for the room.

If they get 10,000 off, they should be happy.

I borrowed $40K for college and my wife borrowed $35K. For both of us, the
loans have been paid off long ago, but the experience leads me to believe
that, depending on specific requirements and restrictions, higher
education
should be free*, just as formal K-12 education is free*.

That line is very arguable. You can also make a case that it makes
no sense that those who choose not to get higher education
shouldn't be paying for the higher education of those who get that.

*Yes, I know that nothing is free, so I don't need a reminder
but I also know that a better educated workforce translates
to a much better population overall.

That's very arguable with the most useless higher education.

The requirements and restrictions mentioned above could be things
like specific education programs supported rather than blanket tuition
avoidance, specific colleges allowed to participate rather than any old
group calling itself a 'university', and requirements on students to
maintain attendance and grade requirements.

It's hard to argue that we don't need more doctors
and nurses, but many of them come out of college
with as much as $250K in student debt.

And then have to charge their patients higher
fees to pay off that debt with doctors.

And with free doctors degrees in Eire etc, the state
is effectively paying for the education of those who
chose to emigrate once they have those degrees.

Offering them $10K in debt relief doesn't seem to cut it, IMHO,
so I think there needs to be some flexibility in the program.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 16:58:14 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

That line is very arguable.

What is NOT "arguable" for you, you clinically insane "argumentative
asshole"?

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Friday, February 19, 2021 at 12:09:16 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:

I borrowed $40K for college and my wife borrowed $35K. For both of us, the
loans have been paid off long ago, but the experience leads me to believe
that, depending on specific requirements and restrictions, higher education
should be free*, just as formal K-12 education is free*.

I disagree, although the solution I propose might be just as expensive.

From what I can see, most high schools push nearly all their students
to what we used to call the college-prep track, and have gutted the
"industrial arts" programs. Bring back the idea that high schools prepare
their students for what they'll actually face when they leave. Some
students will go to a four-year university. Most students will require
some additional education, including two-year programs, vocational
training, and apprenticeships (I can hear everybody laughing).

Additionally, make that additional education more affordable. Public
universities need to keep their undergraduate tuition in check. For
advanced degrees in practical subjects--especially medicine and
dentistry--a system of subsidy in return for post-graduation work in
areas where their skills are most needed.

But people tend not to value things that they get for free. Make those
kids pay _something_ for their higher education, but not so they leave
school with crushing debt.

Cindy Hamilton

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 18 Feb 2021 23:25:29 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:39:42 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:56:45 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I doubt that anybody getting a degree in 4th Century Greek sculpture
could hack it at trade or technical school. Those disciplines require
aptitude.

Now, don't get me started on how useless most young people are because
they've spent their whole lives twiddling cell phone buttons or going to
"maker academy" where nothing has to be kludged together.



Yes, today the young people do not seem to be able to do simple repair
things around the house.

That is only because they never had a chance to be taught. "Shop"
disappeared from middle and high school in the 70s (probably because

Really? Must be a Florida thing. There's still shop class
in high school here in California (called industrial arts).

educators didn't know which end of a hammer you hold) and we are

It's pretty telling that you can't make a simple statement
without resorting to insult.

The high schools that I'm familiar with in North and South Dakota still
offer wood shop and home economics, the same as they have since the 1960's
or even longer. My sister tells me that the ND HS where her kids went
offered wood shop, auto shop, and home ec. When I lived in Kansas, the
local HS offered wood shop, home ec, and computer networking. My son opted
for the networking classes, which has served him well in his adult working
life but I bet if I handed him a piece of wood and a hand saw he'd take a
moment to figure it out.

Missing from all of those schools is some kind of metal working class. You
get a little of that in an auto shop class, but not enough to make it
somewhat equivalent to what they teach in wood shop. I still use what I
learned in the mechanical drawing classes some 40 years ago. Before I build
a woodworking project, my weekend hobby, I draw the front, side, and top
views that I learned in mechanical drawing. I sometimes draw the 3D
perspective angle, but it's not usually needed.

We had woodshop and something about drafting in the 7th grade, I suppose
for a whole year. I remember that the drafting tables were built at the
prison in Pendleton Indiana.

My mother wanted a shoe rack that didn't have round dowels to hold the
shoes. She used it for 38 years. I have it now.

We had metal shop and a little printing in the 8th grade. I was going
to make a centerpunch or nailset but didn't finish. I still have that
and it's useful. For printing, each kid was supposed to bring in a
recipe, print it on 3x5 cards, and each of us got a set of them. Those
I don't have and I don't think my mother saved them either.

I looked on the JHS website but it didn't say anything about specific
classes.

I took autoshop as a senior, instead of 4th year Latin. Definitely a
full-year course, so the others probably were too.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 23:27:03 -0600, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:34:04 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 06:58:19 -0500, Joe Bribem
wrote:

On 2/17/21 6:33 PM, trader_4 wrote:
He just killed 10K+ high paying jobs on the XL pipeline so more
stupid things to appease people like you doesn't seem unexpected.


Liquid energy still needs to be moved so someone will benefit. Who owns the trains?

Warren Buffett.


Not an expert on finance either, it seems.

If you find something where he might be an expert, please raise a flag. I
haven't found anything yet but there must be something, somewhere.


While Warren Buffett owns large stake in Union Pacific (I'm also a part owner myself),
there is also BNSF, NSC (part owner here) and a handful of smaller players.

All of which are publicly owned.

I know Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffett) owns BNSF and that seems to
have eluded Lurndal.
BNSF also hauls the bulk of the Canadian shale oil which is ALL I
alluded to.
Does B/H have share holders?
Sure but so does Amazon and we have no problem saying Bezos owns it.
What is good for Amazon is good for Bezos.

As for knowing a lot of things about a lot of things, I read a lot.

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 11:50:33 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:56:45 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I doubt that anybody getting a degree in 4th Century Greek sculpture
could hack it at trade or technical school. Those disciplines require
aptitude.

Now, don't get me started on how useless most young people are because
they've spent their whole lives twiddling cell phone buttons or going to
"maker academy" where nothing has to be kludged together.



Yes, today the young people do not seem to be able to do simple repair
things around the house.
That is only because they never had a chance to be taught. "Shop"
disappeared from middle and high school in the 70s (probably because
educators didn't know which end of a hammer you hold) and we are
seeing the fallout now. Latinos are kicking our ass in the trades.

Funny, do they teach shop in Mexico and Honduras schools? Do Latinos
here go to different schools that do teach shop? The whole claims is wrong,
at least here in NJ. The schools district here has vocational schools that
teach trades like auto repair, HVAC, electrical, and yes, carpentry. That's
way more than just shop from 50 years ago. If FL hasn't kept up, maybe
that's because your state is too cheap, doesn't care and prefers low taxes.


If
you don't speak a little Spanish you can't be a job super or a
contractor these days. I was helped being an inspector because I took
a Spanish class and I made the extra effort to expand that "do you
have a telephone" stuff into the terms used in construction.

That's true, but I suspect it has a lot more to do with Americans having
become lazy and unwilling to do hard manual labor. And even those that
will, most have half the productivity of immigrants. I have a friend who
builds golf courses and that has been his experience. You don't need
shop to know how to use a shovel.

On 2/19/2021 12:09 AM, Jim Joyce wrote:


I borrowed $40K for college and my wife borrowed $35K. For both of us, the
loans have been paid off long ago, but the experience leads me to believe
that, depending on specific requirements and restrictions, higher education
should be free*, just as formal K-12 education is free*.

*Yes, I know that nothing is free, so I don't need a reminder but I also
know that a better educated workforce translates to a much better
population overall.

The requirements and restrictions mentioned above could be things like
specific education programs supported rather than blanket tuition
avoidance, specific colleges allowed to participate rather than any old
group calling itself a 'university', and requirements on students to
maintain attendance and grade requirements.

Yes, "free" would be good with some controls. There are a lot of
professional students with degrees in decoupage and a masters in basket
weaving. There has to be some accountability.