On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 03:09:43 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile pest's latest troll**** unread

03:09??? LMAO Are you COMPLETELY nuts, you 86-year-old trolling senile pest?

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 1:02:27 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:34:25 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2020 11:57:35 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Bob F" wrote in message
...
On 5/30/2020 5:56 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 2:16:29 PM UTC-4, Peter wrote:
On 5/28/2020 10:28 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/28/2020 5:53 AM, GatesTattooInc wrote:
On 5/28/20 1:50 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

I can have some control over getting or giving a virus. I take some
measure to do so.

And thats what a lockdown does.


How much longer will you hide under your bed?


Until vaccination is available. Its cozy under there.
Don't hold your breath waiting for a highly effective vaccine providing
long-term protection. I greatly respect Dr. Fauci and he's recently
expressed optimism about a vaccine against COVID-19 disease being
developed in the near future. However, the history of vaccines against
human corona virus diseases is not that encouraging.

A proven vaccine licensed by the FDA has never been developed against
any of the corona viruses that produce human disease (SARS, MERS and
some "common colds").

But how much effort around the world was put into any of those?
SARS, MERS were extinguished in short order, pretty much exinguishing
any profit potential for developing a vaccine. Common cold is caused
by many different viruses, not one specific one, making a vaccine
there far more difficult and it's generally not a serious illness.



What's worse, the natural immunity that often
protects previously infected, recovered patients against recurrence for
many years and often for life after infection by many other viral
diseases caused by non-corona viruses, e.g., smallpox, measles, mumps,
German measles, roseola, polio, etc., has not been observed after
recuperation from any of the other corona viral illnesses. Neutralizing
antibodies against SARS and MERS have not been detected in recovered
patients more than about 2 1/2 years after clinical infection. If a
vaccine against those viruses is eventually available, booster shots at
least every 2 years would be needed to maintain protection.

So? The flu vaccine is issued each year. Also, with a vaccine it's
possible
we could extinguish Covid completely, not need to continue vaccinating.

A virus that is ALREADY in the wild?

Yep.

Unless they immunize every bat that can carry it, that's not going to
happen.

Wrong with jurisdictions that had enough of a
clue to apply a lockdown early and as a result
have very little virus. All of australia, new zealand
taiwan etc could well stamp out the virus quite
soon without any vaccine.

That works until you folks let the tourists back in.

Has anyone here looked at Vietnam? Zero Covid-19 deaths. They took it
seriously, before anywhere else was taking it seriously.

Vietnam? Why look anywhere other than the USA? That's Trump's
nationalistic approach. We don't need to look at and learn from
other countries. We're making America great again, screw the world.
We have 100K dead and counting, because Trump refuses to look and
learn.

On 5/30/2020 12:18 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 May 2020 10:35:49 -0500, Muggles
wrote:

On 5/30/2020 9:05 AM, Peter wrote:
On 5/30/2020 8:56 AM, trader_4 wrote:


That's certainly true.Â* But there are promising results, testing has
shown that at least one vaccine provides immunity in small animals
and monkeys and that humans tested are showing Covid antibodies.

Â*
I wasn't saying that developing an effective vaccine that will be
acceptable to a large percentage of the public (low risk of serious side
effects, excellent voluntary compliance with possibly needed boosters on
an annual basis) is impossible and shouldn't even be attempted.Â* What I
was doing is pointing out that because there has never been an analogous
vaccine developed against any another corona virus, highly optimistic
statements about the likelihood of the short term, wide-spread
availability (roughly 12-18 months) of an effective novel corona virus
vaccine is rather speculative, and based only on a handful of successful
early studies using animal models as well as a few Phase I human trials
to test safety, not efficacy.Â*Â*Â* Now if we were discussing the
development of an effective vaccine against certain types of bacteria
for which excellent vaccines have been developed many times within the
past century, I wouldn't feel that highly optimistic statements would be
as speculative.

Keep in mind that even when a strong antibody response is detected after
inoculation with a candidate vaccine, there is as of yet no knowledge
using any species as a model, of the magnitude of antibody titer
required to provide a defined percentage of clinical (real life
scenarios, not laboratory challenge tests) protection against infection.
Â*Those titer/%protection studies require the use of an extremely
sensitive and selective antibody titer test in a very large cohort of
subjects who are observed over a relatively long duration under
carefully monitored conditions.Â* That type of study will most likely
involve repeated measurements of residual antibody titer so the duration
of clinical protection can be quantified and the need for booster shots
defined.Â*Â* Until that information is available, even the protective
effectiveness of an approved, widely distributed vaccine for a given
population will be speculative for perhaps as long as a year after
initial widespread administration of that vaccine.



Very astute response!


If they had a vaccine with a 100% effective rate and zero side
effects, 30% of the people would still refuse to take it.
Usually the number refusing to get flu shots is close to half and flu
kills almost twice as many as cars every year.


I usually will get a flu shot in the fall.

--
Maggie

On 5/30/2020 7:34 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Bob F" wrote in message
...
On 5/30/2020 6:57 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Bob F" wrote in message
...
On 5/30/2020 5:56 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 2:16:29 PM UTC-4, Peter wrote:
On 5/28/2020 10:28 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/28/2020 5:53 AM, GatesTattooInc wrote:
On 5/28/20 1:50 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

I can have some control over getting or giving a virus.Â* I
take some
measure to do so.

And thats what a lockdown does.


How much longer will you hide under your bed?


Until vaccination is available. Its cozy under there.
Don't hold your breath waiting for a highly effective vaccine
providing
long-term protection.Â* I greatly respect Dr. Fauci and he's recently
expressed optimism about a vaccine againstÂ* COVID-19 disease being
developed in the near future.Â* However, the history of vaccines
against
human corona virus diseases is not that encouraging.

A proven vaccine licensed by the FDA has never been developed against
any of the corona viruses that produce human disease (SARS, MERS and
some "common colds").

But how much effort around the world was put into any of those?
SARS, MERS were extinguished in short order, pretty much exinguishing
any profit potential for developing a vaccine.Â* Common cold is caused
by many different viruses, not one specific one, making a vaccine
there far more difficult and it's generally not a serious illness.



Â* What's worse, the natural immunity that often
protects previously infected, recovered patients against
recurrence for
many years and often for life after infection by many other viral
diseases caused by non-corona viruses, e.g., smallpox, measles,
mumps,
German measles, roseola, polio, etc., has not been observed after
recuperation from any of the other corona viral illnesses.
Neutralizing
antibodies against SARS and MERS have not been detected in recovered
patients more than about 2 1/2 years after clinical infection.Â* If a
vaccine against those viruses is eventually available, booster
shots at
least every 2 years would be needed to maintain protection.

So?Â* The flu vaccine is issued each year.Â* Also, with a vaccine
it's possible
we could extinguish Covid completely, not need to continue
vaccinating.

A virus that is ALREADY in the wild?

Yep.

Unless they immunize every bat that can carry it, that's not going
to happen.

Wrong with jurisdictions that had enough of a
clue to apply a lockdown early and as a result
have very little virus. All of australia, new zealand
taiwan etc could well stamp out the virus quite
soon without any vaccine.

Fools like the USA, Brazil and the UK which are stupidly
relaxing their lockdowns already, get to die like flys.

I responded, QUITE CLEARLY to the claim that they could "extinguish
Covid completely" with vaccinations, which would be like they claim to
have done with smallpox.

Its not a claim, its a fact. And smallpox was in the wild.

Again, that is not going to happen for covid.

You dont know that.

And you can provide no data (you never do) to back up your statement.

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
On 5/30/2020 7:34 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Bob F" wrote in message
...
On 5/30/2020 6:57 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Bob F" wrote in message
...
On 5/30/2020 5:56 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 2:16:29 PM UTC-4, Peter wrote:
On 5/28/2020 10:28 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/28/2020 5:53 AM, GatesTattooInc wrote:
On 5/28/20 1:50 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

I can have some control over getting or giving a virus. I take
some
measure to do so.

And thats what a lockdown does.


How much longer will you hide under your bed?


Until vaccination is available. Its cozy under there.
Don't hold your breath waiting for a highly effective vaccine
providing
long-term protection. I greatly respect Dr. Fauci and he's recently
expressed optimism about a vaccine against COVID-19 disease being
developed in the near future. However, the history of vaccines
against
human corona virus diseases is not that encouraging.

A proven vaccine licensed by the FDA has never been developed
against
any of the corona viruses that produce human disease (SARS, MERS and
some "common colds").

But how much effort around the world was put into any of those?
SARS, MERS were extinguished in short order, pretty much exinguishing
any profit potential for developing a vaccine. Common cold is caused
by many different viruses, not one specific one, making a vaccine
there far more difficult and it's generally not a serious illness.



What's worse, the natural immunity that often
protects previously infected, recovered patients against recurrence
for
many years and often for life after infection by many other viral
diseases caused by non-corona viruses, e.g., smallpox, measles,
mumps,
German measles, roseola, polio, etc., has not been observed after
recuperation from any of the other corona viral illnesses.
Neutralizing
antibodies against SARS and MERS have not been detected in recovered
patients more than about 2 1/2 years after clinical infection. If a
vaccine against those viruses is eventually available, booster shots
at
least every 2 years would be needed to maintain protection.

So? The flu vaccine is issued each year. Also, with a vaccine it's
possible
we could extinguish Covid completely, not need to continue
vaccinating.

A virus that is ALREADY in the wild?

Yep.

Unless they immunize every bat that can carry it, that's not going to
happen.

Wrong with jurisdictions that had enough of a
clue to apply a lockdown early and as a result
have very little virus. All of australia, new zealand
taiwan etc could well stamp out the virus quite
soon without any vaccine.

Fools like the USA, Brazil and the UK which are stupidly
relaxing their lockdowns already, get to die like flys.

I responded, QUITE CLEARLY to the claim that they could "extinguish
Covid completely" with vaccinations, which would be like they claim to
have done with smallpox.

Its not a claim, its a fact. And smallpox was in the wild.

Again, that is not going to happen for covid.

You dont know that.

And you can provide no data (you never do) to back up your statement.

The data is too obvious to need citing, the Johns Hopkins virus stats

On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 15:20:46 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Richard about senile Rodent:
"Rod Speed, a bare faced pig and ignorant ****."
MID:

On Sun, 31 May 2020 21:51:11 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 5/30/2020 7:34 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Bob F" wrote in message
...
On 5/30/2020 6:57 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Bob F" wrote in message
...
On 5/30/2020 5:56 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 2:16:29 PM UTC-4, Peter wrote:
On 5/28/2020 10:28 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/28/2020 5:53 AM, GatesTattooInc wrote:
On 5/28/20 1:50 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

I can have some control over getting or giving a virus.* I
take some
measure to do so.

And that’s what a lockdown does.


How much longer will you hide under your bed?


Until vaccination is available. Its cozy under there.
Don't hold your breath waiting for a highly effective vaccine
providing
long-term protection.* I greatly respect Dr. Fauci and he's recently
expressed optimism about a vaccine against* COVID-19 disease being
developed in the near future.* However, the history of vaccines
against
human corona virus diseases is not that encouraging.

A proven vaccine licensed by the FDA has never been developed against
any of the corona viruses that produce human disease (SARS, MERS and
some "common colds").

But how much effort around the world was put into any of those?
SARS, MERS were extinguished in short order, pretty much exinguishing
any profit potential for developing a vaccine.* Common cold is caused
by many different viruses, not one specific one, making a vaccine
there far more difficult and it's generally not a serious illness.



* What's worse, the natural immunity that often
protects previously infected, recovered patients against
recurrence for
many years and often for life after infection by many other viral
diseases caused by non-corona viruses, e.g., smallpox, measles,
mumps,
German measles, roseola, polio, etc., has not been observed after
recuperation from any of the other corona viral illnesses.
Neutralizing
antibodies against SARS and MERS have not been detected in recovered
patients more than about 2 1/2 years after clinical infection.* If a
vaccine against those viruses is eventually available, booster
shots at
least every 2 years would be needed to maintain protection.

So?* The flu vaccine is issued each year.* Also, with a vaccine
it's possible
we could extinguish Covid completely, not need to continue
vaccinating.

A virus that is ALREADY in the wild?

Yep.

Unless they immunize every bat that can carry it, that's not going
to happen.

Wrong with jurisdictions that had enough of a
clue to apply a lockdown early and as a result
have very little virus. All of australia, new zealand
taiwan etc could well stamp out the virus quite
soon without any vaccine.

Fools like the USA, Brazil and the UK which are stupidly
relaxing their lockdowns already, get to die like flys.

I responded, QUITE CLEARLY to the claim that they could "extinguish
Covid completely" with vaccinations, which would be like they claim to
have done with smallpox.

Its not a claim, it’s a fact. And smallpox was in the wild.

Again, that is not going to happen for covid.

You don’t know that.

And you can provide no data (you never do) to back up your statement.

Pretty hard to claim something is impossible - particularly before
any real good attempts have been made. Unlikely - sure - that is
OPINION. Impossible would tenf to be FACT - something PROVEN.
Generally speeking proving something is possible is pretty easy -
proving it is impossible takes a LOT more - - - -