On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 - $5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791, so no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know if the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a 55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that $3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation, with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and would not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the rest o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small percentage of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after spending a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the time of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and certify it.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 - $5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791, so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know if the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a 55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that $3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation, with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and would not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the rest o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small percentage of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after spending a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and certify
it.

Wrong again.

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 - $5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791, so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know if the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a 55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that $3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation, with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and would not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the rest o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small percentage of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after spending a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791, so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a
55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that $3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and would
not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the rest
o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small percentage of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after spending
a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:49:48 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH 139 !!! lines of stinking troll****

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 05:38:08 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another 172 !!! lines of the two clinically insane trolls' troll****

--
Another typical retarded "conversation" between the two resident idiots:

Birdbrain: "But imagine how cool it was to own slaves."

Senile Rodent: "Yeah, right. Feed them, clothe them, and fix them when
they're broken.
After all, you paid good money for them. Then you've got to keep an eye
on them all the time."

Birdbrain: "Better than having to give them wages on top of that."

Senile Rodent: "Specially when they make more slaves for you
and produce their own food and clothes."

MID:

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791, so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a
55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that $3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and would
not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the rest
o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small percentage of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after spending
a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work without someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay a pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791, so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a
55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that $3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and would
not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the rest
o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small percentage of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after spending
a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work without someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay a pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791, so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a
55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that $3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and would
not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the rest
o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small percentage of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after spending
a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work without someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay a pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding
it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791,
so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the
cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a
55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that
$3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still
it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and would
not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the
rest
o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small percentage
of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after
spending
a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come
with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work without
someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay a
pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

Doesn't work like that with solar panels if you
want to be paid for the electricity they generate.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

....and nothing's left!

--
Another typical retarded "conversation" between the Scottish ****** and the
senile Ozzietard:

Birdbrain: "Horse **** doesn't stink."

Senile Rodent: "It does if you roll in it."

Birdbrain: "I've never worked out why, I assumed it was maybe meateaters
that made stinky ****, but then why does vegetarian human **** stink? Is it
just the fact that we're capable of digesting meat?"

Senile Rodent: "Nope, some cow **** stinks too."

Message-ID:

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding
it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791,
so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the
cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a
55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that
$3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still
it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and would
not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the
rest
o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small percentage
of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after
spending
a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come
with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work without
someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay a
pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

Doesn't work like that with solar panels if you
want to be paid for the electricity they generate.

Why not? If it's been shown by a professional that it's installed correctly.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense. You have to disprove it. That's how it works.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60
wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be
finding
it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a
double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the
loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I
doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in
the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying
a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar
panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791,
so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just
two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know
if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the
cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has
a
55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that
$3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still
it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and
would
not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the
rest
o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small
percentage
of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after
spending
a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come
with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work without
someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay a
pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

Doesn't work like that with solar panels if you
want to be paid for the electricity they generate.

Why not?

Because that's the way it works. Even harry didn't diy his.

If it's been shown by a professional that it's installed correctly.

You don't even get to buy the meter.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you
don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense.

Nope, you flaunted your pig ignorance, as usual.

....and much better air in here again!

--
Another retarded "conversation" between Birdbrain and senile Rodent:

Senile Rodent: " Did you ever dig a hole to bury your own ****?"

Birdbrain: "I do if there's no flush toilet around."

Senile Rodent: "Yeah, I prefer camping like that, off by myself with
no dunnys around and have always buried the ****."

MID:

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 22:52:31 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60
wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be
finding
it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a
double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the
loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I
doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in
the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying
a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar
panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791,
so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just
two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know
if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the
cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has
a
55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that
$3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still
it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and
would
not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the
rest
o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small
percentage
of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after
spending
a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come
with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work without
someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay a
pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

Doesn't work like that with solar panels if you
want to be paid for the electricity they generate.

Why not?

Because that's the way it works. Even harry didn't diy his.

Works that way for anything else, so why not solar?

If it's been shown by a professional that it's installed correctly.

You don't even get to buy the meter.

So what? You can buy the panels and the invertor and set everything up and avoid most of the labour charge:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113369750887

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you
don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense.

Nope, you flaunted your pig ignorance, as usual.

Ignorant of stupid folk, perhaps.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 22:52:31 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander
Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60
wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote
in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it
may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be
finding
it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they
need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a
double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the
loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I
doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in
the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense
to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in
buying
a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar
panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for
$3,791,
so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just
two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know
if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the
cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are
big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump
has
a
55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like
Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that
$3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the
installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but
still
it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and
would
not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my
car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the
rest
o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small
percentage
of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after
spending
a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all
the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things
come
with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work
without
someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay a
pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

Doesn't work like that with solar panels if you
want to be paid for the electricity they generate.

Why not?

Because that's the way it works. Even harry didn't diy his.

Works that way for anything else, so why not solar?

If it's been shown by a professional that it's installed correctly.

You don't even get to buy the meter.

So what? You can buy the panels and the invertor and set everything up
and avoid most of the labour charge:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113369750887

But you cant diy everything and still get paid for the electricity you
generate.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you
don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense.

Nope, you flaunted your pig ignorance, as usual.

Ignorant of stupid folk, perhaps.

Yep, yours is certainly the ignorance of stupid folk.

On 12/6/19 5:17 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791, so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there.* Do you know if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that?* Here in the USA, AFAIK, the cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in?* Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a
55%
tariff
on them.* Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost.* Here, you'd think that $3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still it
would
cost about 3 times your cost.* Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and
would not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the
rest o
the wiring to code.....** I'd venture that only a small percentage of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after
spending a
lot
of time researching how to do it right.* We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people.* FFS the damn things come with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

And those instructions also *assume* that the installer is a correctly
trained and, where appropriate, licenced installer. As such, the
instructions are not aimed at *beginners*. Vehicle factory workshop
manuals are no different which is why Gregorys and other publishers
bring out step by step how-to books for car repair.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Try it in Australia. Also, with unlicenced/unregistered installations,
if a fire or similar occurs and the insurance assessor notes unlicenced
work, the claim will be dismissed even if the work had nothing to do
with the cause of the fire.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

"Xeno" wrote in message
...
On 12/6/19 5:17 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding
it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791, so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there. Do you know if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that? Here in the USA, AFAIK, the cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in? Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a
55%
tariff
on them. Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost. Here, you'd think that
$3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still it
would
cost about 3 times your cost. Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and
would not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the rest
o
the wiring to code..... I'd venture that only a small percentage
of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after spending
a
lot
of time researching how to do it right. We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people. FFS the damn things come
with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

And those instructions also *assume* that the installer is a correctly
trained and, where appropriate, licenced installer. As such, the
instructions are not aimed at *beginners*. Vehicle factory workshop
manuals are no different which is why Gregorys and other publishers bring
out step by step how-to books for car repair.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Try it in Australia.

I did the entire house I built that way. Worked fine.

Also, with unlicenced/unregistered installations, if a fire or similar
occurs and the insurance assessor notes unlicenced work, the claim will be
dismissed even if the work had nothing to do with the cause of the fire.

They can't get away with that.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:23:37 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


....and much better air in here again!

--
Typical retarded "conversation" between the Scottish ****** and the senile
Ozzietard:

Birdbrain: "Horse **** doesn't stink."

Senile Rodent: "It does if you roll in it."

Birdbrain: "I've never worked out why, I assumed it was maybe meateaters
that made stinky ****, but then why does vegetarian human **** stink? Is it
just the fact that we're capable of digesting meat?"

Senile Rodent: "Nope, some cow **** stinks too."

Message-ID:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:32:02 +1000, Xeno, another brain damaged,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:


Prove it.

Try it in Australia. Also, with unlicenced/unregistered installations,
if a fire or similar occurs and the insurance assessor notes unlicenced
work, the claim will be dismissed even if the work had nothing to do
with the cause of the fire.

He said PROVE it, not CLAIM it, senile Ozzie asshole!

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:48:23 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another 190 !!! lines of senile troll****

....and nothing's left!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:23:37 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 22:52:31 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work
without
someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay a
pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

Doesn't work like that with solar panels if you
want to be paid for the electricity they generate.

Why not?

Because that's the way it works. Even harry didn't diy his.

Works that way for anything else, so why not solar?

If it's been shown by a professional that it's installed correctly.

You don't even get to buy the meter.

So what? You can buy the panels and the invertor and set everything up
and avoid most of the labour charge:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113369750887

But you cant diy everything and still get paid for the electricity you
generate.

So you need an official to install the meter, can't cost that much.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you
don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense.

Nope, you flaunted your pig ignorance, as usual.

Ignorant of stupid folk, perhaps.

Yep, yours is certainly the ignorance of stupid folk.

This is where your spelling lets you down. I said ignorant not ignorance.

On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 12:32:11 AM UTC-4, Xeno wrote:
On 12/6/19 5:17 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791, so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there.Â* Do you know if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that?Â* Here in the USA, AFAIK, the cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in?Â* Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a
55%
tariff
on them.Â* Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost.Â* Here, you'd think that $3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still it
would
cost about 3 times your cost.Â* Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and
would not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the
rest o
the wiring to code.....Â*Â* I'd venture that only a small percentage of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after
spending a
lot
of time researching how to do it right.Â* We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people.Â* FFS the damn things come with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

And those instructions also *assume* that the installer is a correctly
trained and, where appropriate, licenced installer. As such, the
instructions are not aimed at *beginners*.

Same is true of the installation manuals for electric receptacles,
light fixtures, dishwashers, ovens, garbage disposals, water heaters,
furnaces..... Yet it's perfectly legal here in most
parts of the US for a homeowner to install those themselves.





Vehicle factory workshop
manuals are no different which is why Gregorys and other publishers
bring out step by step how-to books for car repair.

I've seen both factory manuals and aftermarket ones, eg Chiltons,
Bentley and I don't see a lot of difference. I thought the main purpose
of the aftermarket ones was to offer something to the DIYer when
the factory ones either may not be available at all to a DIY or
the aftermarket ones are a lot cheaper.






All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Try it in Australia. Also, with unlicenced/unregistered installations,
if a fire or similar occurs and the insurance assessor notes unlicenced
work, the claim will be dismissed even if the work had nothing to do
with the cause of the fire.


Then you have a crooked insurance company and you should go straight to
the regulators. You car catches fire in the garage, burns the house
down and they can deny the claim because someone unlicensed put in a
receptacle in the bathroom?

People have made the claim that work you did without a permit, if it
was SHOWN that incompetent work actually CAUSED the fire, would result
in the claim being denied. But every time we ask for some examples,
no one has been able to produce a single one. I know of only one
case where that happened and it was exceptional, with a lot of documented
evidence to support it.

And I don't see anyone here suggesting people do anything illegal,
ie install a solar system without a permit and required inspections.
As a homeowner, most places in the US, you can obtain the permit,
DIY and have whatever work you do inspected.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:23:37 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 22:52:31 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even
install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work
without
someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay a
pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

Doesn't work like that with solar panels if you
want to be paid for the electricity they generate.

Why not?

Because that's the way it works. Even harry didn't diy his.

Works that way for anything else, so why not solar?

If it's been shown by a professional that it's installed correctly.

You don't even get to buy the meter.

So what? You can buy the panels and the invertor and set everything up
and avoid most of the labour charge:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113369750887

But you cant diy everything and still get paid for the electricity you
generate.

So you need an official to install the meter, can't cost that much.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you
don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense.

Nope, you flaunted your pig ignorance, as usual.

Ignorant of stupid folk, perhaps.

Yep, yours is certainly the ignorance of stupid folk.

This is where your spelling lets you down. I said ignorant not ignorance.

Nothing to do with my spelling, the spelling changes depending
on on whether it's a verb, noun, concept etc, stupid.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:38:29 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:23:37 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 22:52:31 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even
install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work
without
someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay a
pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

Doesn't work like that with solar panels if you
want to be paid for the electricity they generate.

Why not?

Because that's the way it works. Even harry didn't diy his.

Works that way for anything else, so why not solar?

If it's been shown by a professional that it's installed correctly.

You don't even get to buy the meter.

So what? You can buy the panels and the invertor and set everything up
and avoid most of the labour charge:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113369750887

But you cant diy everything and still get paid for the electricity you
generate.

So you need an official to install the meter, can't cost that much.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you
don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense.

Nope, you flaunted your pig ignorance, as usual.

Ignorant of stupid folk, perhaps.

Yep, yours is certainly the ignorance of stupid folk.

This is where your spelling lets you down. I said ignorant not ignorance.

Nothing to do with my spelling, the spelling changes depending
on on whether it's a verb, noun, concept etc, stupid.

And you confused two of them you pig ignorant fool.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:38:29 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:23:37 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 22:52:31 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



Yes, but you don't get to do that part of the installation and
get paid for the electricity you deliver to the grid, or even
install
the meter that shows how much you have generated either.

You put it in, get it checked, then get paid.

Just like if you rent a flat here, you can't do electrical work
without
someone checking it, but you can do it yourself first and only pay
a
pittance to get it tested by someone with the silly certificates.

Doesn't work like that with solar panels if you
want to be paid for the electricity they generate.

Why not?

Because that's the way it works. Even harry didn't diy his.

Works that way for anything else, so why not solar?

If it's been shown by a professional that it's installed correctly.

You don't even get to buy the meter.

So what? You can buy the panels and the invertor and set everything
up
and avoid most of the labour charge:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113369750887

But you cant diy everything and still get paid for the electricity you
generate.

So you need an official to install the meter, can't cost that much.

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to,
you
don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right
and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense.

Nope, you flaunted your pig ignorance, as usual.

Ignorant of stupid folk, perhaps.

Yep, yours is certainly the ignorance of stupid folk.

This is where your spelling lets you down. I said ignorant not
ignorance.

Nothing to do with my spelling, the spelling changes depending
on on whether it's a verb, noun, concept etc, stupid.

And you confused two of them

Wrong, as always.

On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 03:38:29 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH yet more of the two clinically insane prize idiots' absolute
nonsense

--
Another typical retarded conversation between our two village idiots,
Birdbrain and Rodent Speed:

Birdbrain: "You beat me to it. Plain sex is boring."

Senile Rodent: "Then **** the cats. That wont be boring."

Birdbrain: "Sell me a de-clawing tool first."

Senile Rodent: "Wont help with the teeth."

Birdbrain: "They've never gone for me with their mouths."

Rodent Speed: "They will if you are stupid enough to try ****ing them."

Birdbrain: "No, they always use claws."

Rodent Speed: "They wont if you try ****ing them. Try it and see."

Message-ID:

On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 04:07:11 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Wrong, as always.

Something is COMPLETELY wrong with BOTH of you subnormal cretins!

--
Another typical retarded "conversation" between the two resident idiots:

Birdbrain: "But imagine how cool it was to own slaves."

Senile Rodent: "Yeah, right. Feed them, clothe them, and fix them when
they're broken.
After all, you paid good money for them. Then you've got to keep an eye
on them all the time."

Birdbrain: "Better than having to give them wages on top of that."

Senile Rodent: "Specially when they make more slaves for you
and produce their own food and clothes."

MID:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 19:07:11 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:38:29 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:23:37 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 22:52:31 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to,
you
don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right
and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense.

Nope, you flaunted your pig ignorance, as usual.

Ignorant of stupid folk, perhaps.

Yep, yours is certainly the ignorance of stupid folk.

This is where your spelling lets you down. I said ignorant not
ignorance.

Nothing to do with my spelling, the spelling changes depending
on on whether it's a verb, noun, concept etc, stupid.

And you confused two of them

Wrong, as always.

I said I was ignorant of stupid folk. This means I don't know much about stupid folk.
You read it as I have the ignorance of stupid folk, which means I'm as ignorant as they are.
Two totally different things.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 19:07:11 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:38:29 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:23:37 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 22:52:31 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to,
you
don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right
and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense.

Nope, you flaunted your pig ignorance, as usual.

Ignorant of stupid folk, perhaps.

Yep, yours is certainly the ignorance of stupid folk.

This is where your spelling lets you down. I said ignorant not
ignorance.

Nothing to do with my spelling, the spelling changes depending
on on whether it's a verb, noun, concept etc, stupid.

And you confused two of them

Wrong, as always.

I said I was ignorant of stupid folk. This means I don't know much about
stupid folk.
You read it as I have the ignorance of stupid folk,

Nope, I turned your original on its head, stupid.

which means I'm as ignorant as they are.

And that is a fact.

Two totally different things.

Pathetic really. Demand a full refund on that pathetic excuse for an IQ
test.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:50:09 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 19:07:11 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:38:29 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:23:37 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 22:52:31 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to,
you
don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right
and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense.

Nope, you flaunted your pig ignorance, as usual.

Ignorant of stupid folk, perhaps.

Yep, yours is certainly the ignorance of stupid folk.

This is where your spelling lets you down. I said ignorant not
ignorance.

Nothing to do with my spelling, the spelling changes depending
on on whether it's a verb, noun, concept etc, stupid.

And you confused two of them

Wrong, as always.

I said I was ignorant of stupid folk. This means I don't know much about
stupid folk.
You read it as I have the ignorance of stupid folk,

Nope, I turned your original on its head, stupid.

Ah, you were being childish for comic effect.

which means I'm as ignorant as they are.

And that is a fact.

It's your opinion.

Two totally different things.

Pathetic really. Demand a full refund on that pathetic excuse for an IQ
test.

You said recently that online IQ tests were valid. Try not to argue the same point in different directions, it makes you look like an arse (that's donkey in yank speak).

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:50:09 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 19:07:11 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:38:29 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:23:37 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 22:52:31 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:56:24 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:38:08 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

All you do is connect the wires where the manual says
to,
you
don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up
right
and
certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Just did.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so. Show a link.

Just as true of your claim.

You made the claim,

You get to show the link.

That's how it works.

I spoke common sense.

Nope, you flaunted your pig ignorance, as usual.

Ignorant of stupid folk, perhaps.

Yep, yours is certainly the ignorance of stupid folk.

This is where your spelling lets you down. I said ignorant not
ignorance.

Nothing to do with my spelling, the spelling changes depending
on on whether it's a verb, noun, concept etc, stupid.

And you confused two of them

Wrong, as always.

I said I was ignorant of stupid folk. This means I don't know much
about
stupid folk.
You read it as I have the ignorance of stupid folk,

Nope, I turned your original on its head, stupid.

Ah, you were being childish for comic effect.

Nope, rubbing your nose in yet another fact.

which means I'm as ignorant as they are.

And that is a fact.

It's your opinion.

Nope, it's a fact that everyone can see for themselves.

Two totally different things.

Pathetic really. Demand a full refund on that pathetic excuse for an IQ
test.

You said recently that online IQ tests were valid.

I said nothing of the sort.

On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:50:09 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another 108 !!! lines of the two clinically insane idiots' latest
retarded bull****

--
Typical retarded "conversation" between the Scottish ****** and the senile
Ozzietard:

Birdbrain: "Horse **** doesn't stink."

Senile Rodent: "It does if you roll in it."

Birdbrain: "I've never worked out why, I assumed it was maybe meateaters
that made stinky ****, but then why does vegetarian human **** stink? Is it
just the fact that we're capable of digesting meat?"

Senile Rodent: "Nope, some cow **** stinks too."

Message-ID:

On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:05:50 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another 132 !!! lines of the two clinically insane idiots' bull****

--
Another typical retarded conversation between our two village idiots,
Birdbrain and Rodent Speed:

Birdbrain: "You beat me to it. Plain sex is boring."

Senile Rodent: "Then **** the cats. That wont be boring."

Birdbrain: "Sell me a de-clawing tool first."

Senile Rodent: "Wont help with the teeth."

Birdbrain: "They've never gone for me with their mouths."

Rodent Speed: "They will if you are stupid enough to try ****ing them."

Birdbrain: "No, they always use claws."

Rodent Speed: "They wont if you try ****ing them. Try it and see."

Message-ID:

On 13/6/19 2:54 am, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 12:32:11 AM UTC-4, Xeno wrote:
On 12/6/19 5:17 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:49:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:31:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 23:12:20 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 22:00:45 +0100, trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 4:52:14 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:19:31 +0100, trader_4

wrote:

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-4, Daniel60 wrote:
Teresa Maynot wrote on 9/06/2019 8:21 PM:
On 6/9/19 5:28 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
Rod Speed wrote on 8/06/2019 4:35 AM:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:09:24 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Snip

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel
installation.

**** all cost compared to the whole house.

But with house prices so high now, most will be finding it
hard to find someone who will lend them what they need
to buy the house and so the optional stuff like a double
sized
panel will be what doesn't make the cut to get the loan
even
if it does make economic sense in the long term. I doubt
that
the double sized panel would make economic sense in the
long term in scotland. Bet it would make more sense to
out that money into shares instead.

$500,000 - $1Million - and up for a house! $2,500 -
$5,000 -
and up
for Solar Panels!

Sure, that's going to be the deciding factor in buying a
House!! ....
*NOT*

Please enlighten us where we can buy a useful solar panel
system
for
$2500 - $5000 or did you drop a zero?

https://www.eurosolar.com.au/ 22 x 275W panels for $3,791, so
no,
I
didn't drop a zero!

Bugger!! I paid about $4,500 for my 20 panel system just two
years
ago!!

--
Daniel

Wow, it sure is cheap to the customer there.Â* Do you know if
the
govt is
putting a subsidy into that?Â* Here in the USA, AFAIK, the cost
would be
at least 4 times that.

Maybe it depends what country they're made in?Â* Those are big
heavy
fragile things to ship internationally.

Well, most of them are made in China and looks like Trump has a
55%
tariff
on them.Â* Congratulations for finding a good example of how
Trump's
tariffs
are hitting Americans and not being paid by China, like Trump
lies.
It's still a big difference in cost.Â* Here, you'd think that $3800
would
be mostly eaten up just by labor costs to do the installation,
with
all the work involved.

Why don't you make your own in America?

There is a federal tax credit of 30%, so
assuming you pay taxes, you'd reduce it by ~ $6K, but still it
would
cost about 3 times your cost.Â* Just all the labor is
substantial.

What labour, easy enough to do it yourself.

The vast majority of home owners don't have the skills and
would not
know
where to start. Only a very small percentage are DIY.

Even I could do it, it's easier than changing the oil in my car.

Sure, I believe that. Wiring in a grid tied inverter, doing the
rest o
the wiring to code.....Â*Â* I'd venture that only a small percentage of
those
who can do an oil change could do it right and that's after
spending a
lot
of time researching how to do it right.Â* We see pics here all the
time
of
DIY wiring, where people can't even install a light fixture
correctly.

You must have some really thick people.Â* FFS the damn things come with
instructions!

Not for feeding the grid they don't.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

Because that isnt up to the installer.

Even things that are installed professionally have instructions.

And those instructions also *assume* that the installer is a correctly
trained and, where appropriate, licenced installer. As such, the
instructions are not aimed at *beginners*.

Same is true of the installation manuals for electric receptacles,
light fixtures, dishwashers, ovens, garbage disposals, water heaters,
furnaces..... Yet it's perfectly legal here in most
parts of the US for a homeowner to install those themselves.





Vehicle factory workshop
manuals are no different which is why Gregorys and other publishers
bring out step by step how-to books for car repair.

I've seen both factory manuals and aftermarket ones, eg Chiltons,
Bentley and I don't see a lot of difference. I thought the main purpose
of the aftermarket ones was to offer something to the DIYer when
the factory ones either may not be available at all to a DIY or
the aftermarket ones are a lot cheaper.






All you do is connect the wires where the manual says to, you don't
even
need to understand how it works.

Doesn't get you paid for what you feed into the grid.

All you do is get someone round to check it's wired up right and certify
it.

Wrong again.

Prove it.

Try it in Australia. Also, with unlicenced/unregistered installations,
if a fire or similar occurs and the insurance assessor notes unlicenced
work, the claim will be dismissed even if the work had nothing to do
with the cause of the fire.


Then you have a crooked insurance company and you should go straight to
the regulators. You car catches fire in the garage, burns the house
down and they can deny the claim because someone unlicensed put in a
receptacle in the bathroom?

People have made the claim that work you did without a permit, if it
was SHOWN that incompetent work actually CAUSED the fire, would result
in the claim being denied. But every time we ask for some examples,
no one has been able to produce a single one. I know of only one
case where that happened and it was exceptional, with a lot of documented
evidence to support it.

And I don't see anyone here suggesting people do anything illegal,
ie install a solar system without a permit and required inspections.
As a homeowner, most places in the US, you can obtain the permit,
DIY and have whatever work you do inspected.

Look at where the aftermarket ones get to the complex bits, like auto
trans. They leave them out in general. Also, most aftermarket focus on
step by step operation and miss out on detailed system operation
explanations which is what I like to read *first*. Need that overview
since, as a tradesman for 50+ years, I pretty much know much more than
the basics.
The *detail*, *accurate specifications* and *system overview* is what I
need and manuals like Chilterns don't give me that, especially in these
days of incredible electronic complexity in cars.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:19:09 +1000, Xeno, another brain damaged,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:

FLUSH over 200 !!! lines of bull****

need and manuals like Chilterns don't give me that, especially in these
days of incredible electronic complexity in cars.

Learn to trim your quotes, senile idiot!

On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 11:19:18 PM UTC-4, Xeno wrote:
Prove it.

Try it in Australia. Also, with unlicenced/unregistered installations,
if a fire or similar occurs and the insurance assessor notes unlicenced
work, the claim will be dismissed even if the work had nothing to do
with the cause of the fire.


Then you have a crooked insurance company and you should go straight to
the regulators. You car catches fire in the garage, burns the house
down and they can deny the claim because someone unlicensed put in a
receptacle in the bathroom?

People have made the claim that work you did without a permit, if it
was SHOWN that incompetent work actually CAUSED the fire, would result
in the claim being denied. But every time we ask for some examples,
no one has been able to produce a single one. I know of only one
case where that happened and it was exceptional, with a lot of documented
evidence to support it.

And I don't see anyone here suggesting people do anything illegal,
ie install a solar system without a permit and required inspections.
As a homeowner, most places in the US, you can obtain the permit,
DIY and have whatever work you do inspected.

Look at where the aftermarket ones get to the complex bits, like auto
trans. They leave them out in general.

What is "auto trans"? Auto transfer? IDK what kind of eqpt you have
down there, but here the home solar eqpt doesn't use a transfer switch,
the grid disconnect detection and shutdown are in the inverters.



Also, most aftermarket focus on
step by step operation and miss out on detailed system operation
explanations which is what I like to read *first*.

I thought we were talking about solar INSTALLATION. What operation?
Once it's installed, the installer leaves and there would typically
be a user manual that describes how it works. Not unlike a furnace,
AC, oven or washing machine.



Need that overview
since, as a tradesman for 50+ years, I pretty much know much more than
the basics.
The *detail*, *accurate specifications* and *system overview* is what I
need and manuals like Chilterns don't give me that, especially in these
days of incredible electronic complexity in cars.

I agree that a factory auto manual, if one is available, would be
better in many cases. It could cover much that isn't covered in a
Chiltons. On the other hand, sometimes aftermarket ones have better,
more practical procedures that the factory. For example, BMW's manual
tells you that to do a CV boot replacement, you have to remove the
entire wheel spindle from the vehicle and then do it on the bench.
IDK anyone that does it that way and it can be done with a lot less
work. Today Youtube videos are an enormous source of practical
information, in most cases better than a manual.

On 14/6/19 3:47 am, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 11:19:18 PM UTC-4, Xeno wrote:
Prove it.

Try it in Australia. Also, with unlicenced/unregistered installations,
if a fire or similar occurs and the insurance assessor notes unlicenced
work, the claim will be dismissed even if the work had nothing to do
with the cause of the fire.


Then you have a crooked insurance company and you should go straight to
the regulators. You car catches fire in the garage, burns the house
down and they can deny the claim because someone unlicensed put in a
receptacle in the bathroom?

People have made the claim that work you did without a permit, if it
was SHOWN that incompetent work actually CAUSED the fire, would result
in the claim being denied. But every time we ask for some examples,
no one has been able to produce a single one. I know of only one
case where that happened and it was exceptional, with a lot of documented
evidence to support it.

And I don't see anyone here suggesting people do anything illegal,
ie install a solar system without a permit and required inspections.
As a homeowner, most places in the US, you can obtain the permit,
DIY and have whatever work you do inspected.

Look at where the aftermarket ones get to the complex bits, like auto
trans. They leave them out in general.

What is "auto trans"? Auto transfer? IDK what kind of eqpt you have
down there, but here the home solar eqpt doesn't use a transfer switch,
the grid disconnect detection and shutdown are in the inverters.

Automatic transmission. I was referring to the aftermarket service
manuals compared with factory manuals. Same with installation manuals
for things electrical - they *assume* a qualified electrician is
installing and skip the obvious info an electrician would know.


Also, most aftermarket focus on
step by step operation and miss out on detailed system operation
explanations which is what I like to read *first*.

I thought we were talking about solar INSTALLATION. What operation?
Once it's installed, the installer leaves and there would typically
be a user manual that describes how it works. Not unlike a furnace,
AC, oven or washing machine.

I wasn't referring to the *user manual*. The installation manual or the
repair manual is what I was referring to.


Need that overview
since, as a tradesman for 50+ years, I pretty much know much more than
the basics.
The *detail*, *accurate specifications* and *system overview* is what I
need and manuals like Chilterns don't give me that, especially in these
days of incredible electronic complexity in cars.

I agree that a factory auto manual, if one is available, would be
better in many cases. It could cover much that isn't covered in a
Chiltons. On the other hand, sometimes aftermarket ones have better,
more practical procedures that the factory. For example, BMW's manual
tells you that to do a CV boot replacement, you have to remove the
entire wheel spindle from the vehicle and then do it on the bench.

And, for BMW, that is their preferred method - for whatever reason.

IDK anyone that does it that way and it can be done with a lot less
work. Today Youtube videos are an enormous source of practical
information, in most cases better than a manual.

I have seen many youtube videos that are plain wrong. Caveat emptor.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:23:39 +1000, Xeno, another brain damaged,
senile Australian idiot, blathered:

IDK anyone that does it that way and it can be done with a lot less
work. Today Youtube videos are an enormous source of practical
information, in most cases better than a manual.

I have seen many youtube videos that are plain wrong. Caveat emptor.

I've seen even more senile idiots like you on Usenet who consistently are
plain wrong, Ozzietard!

On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 11:23:46 PM UTC-4, Xeno wrote:
On 14/6/19 3:47 am, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, June 12, 2019 at 11:19:18 PM UTC-4, Xeno wrote:
Prove it.

Try it in Australia. Also, with unlicenced/unregistered installations,
if a fire or similar occurs and the insurance assessor notes unlicenced
work, the claim will be dismissed even if the work had nothing to do
with the cause of the fire.


Then you have a crooked insurance company and you should go straight to
the regulators. You car catches fire in the garage, burns the house
down and they can deny the claim because someone unlicensed put in a
receptacle in the bathroom?

People have made the claim that work you did without a permit, if it
was SHOWN that incompetent work actually CAUSED the fire, would result
in the claim being denied. But every time we ask for some examples,
no one has been able to produce a single one. I know of only one
case where that happened and it was exceptional, with a lot of documented
evidence to support it.

And I don't see anyone here suggesting people do anything illegal,
ie install a solar system without a permit and required inspections.
As a homeowner, most places in the US, you can obtain the permit,
DIY and have whatever work you do inspected.

Look at where the aftermarket ones get to the complex bits, like auto
trans. They leave them out in general.

What is "auto trans"? Auto transfer? IDK what kind of eqpt you have
down there, but here the home solar eqpt doesn't use a transfer switch,
the grid disconnect detection and shutdown are in the inverters.

Automatic transmission. I was referring to the aftermarket service
manuals compared with factory manuals. Same with installation manuals
for things electrical - they *assume* a qualified electrician is
installing and skip the obvious info an electrician would know.

The same is true for a light switch, a light fixture, ceiling fan,
water heater, garbage disposal, ovens, etc. When you buy a receptacle
they don't tell you the codes that apply to the wiring, eg what kind
of wire, what gauge, how it has to be fastened, that junctions need
to be accessible, where they have to located in a kitchen, how many,
etc.