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Default Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 12:41:05 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


On what do you base this absurd assumption?


We've got the video footage of you streaking with everyone pointing and
laughing.


We've got threads and posts from you revealing that you keep sucking him off
as often as you can in your old age, senile Rot! BG

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp addressing Rot Speed:
"You really are a clueless pillock."
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Default Wrong thermostat in electric shower?

wotsit Kristy Ogilvie sed...

I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?


Why have you morphed again?


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Default Wrong thermostat in electric shower?

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 17:09:02 -0000, Steve wrote:

wotsit Kristy Ogilvie sed...

I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?


Why have you morphed again?


Because it annoys me when someone replies to 5 points in my post, then at the end, after I've read and replied back, informs me they've killfiled me. Killfiling should just be done silently, instead of the childish behaviour of getting the last word in.
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Default Wrong thermostat in electric shower?

wotsit Kristy Ogilvie sed...

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 17:09:02 -0000, Steve wrote:

wotsit Kristy Ogilvie sed...

I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?


Why have you morphed again?


Because it annoys me when someone replies to 5 points in my post, then at the end, after I've read and replied back, informs me they've killfiled me. Killfiling should just be done silently, instead of the childish behaviour of getting the last word in.


Grow up, Peter. Stop deliberately annoying people, then you won't
get plonked so often. You're just acting like a brat.
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Default Wrong thermostat in electric shower?

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 18:54:52 -0000, Steve wrote:

wotsit Kristy Ogilvie sed...

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 17:09:02 -0000, Steve wrote:

wotsit Kristy Ogilvie sed...

I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

Why have you morphed again?


Because it annoys me when someone replies to 5 points in my post, then at the end, after I've read and replied back, informs me they've killfiled me. Killfiling should just be done silently, instead of the childish behaviour of getting the last word in.


Grow up, Peter. Stop deliberately annoying people, then you won't
get plonked so often. You're just acting like a brat.


Me?! It's the people plonking me just because they disagree with something I said, and then also declaring it publicly, and after having made me read through their entire 5 point reply. If I killfile something I simply do it silently, or just say "I'm fed up with you".


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Default Wrong thermostat in electric shower?

Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 18:54:52 -0000, Steve
wrote:
wotsit Kristy Ogilvie sed...

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 17:09:02 -0000, Steve
wrote:
wotsit Kristy Ogilvie sed...

I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11 That cuts out at 105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps
when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements. It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

Why have you morphed again?

Because it annoys me when someone replies to 5 points in my post,
then at the end, after I've read and replied back, informs me
they've killfiled me. Killfiling should just be done silently,
instead of the childish behaviour of getting the last word in.


Grow up, Peter. Stop deliberately annoying people, then you won't
get plonked so often. You're just acting like a brat.


Me?! It's the people plonking me just because they disagree with
something I said, and then also declaring it publicly, and after
having made me read through their entire 5 point reply. If I
killfile something I simply do it silently, or just say "I'm fed up
with you".


Prick.


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Default Wrong thermostat in electric shower?

On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 16:19:53 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 18:54:52 -0000, Steve
wrote:
wotsit Kristy Ogilvie sed...

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 17:09:02 -0000, Steve
wrote:
wotsit Kristy Ogilvie sed...

I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11 That cuts out at 105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps
when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements. It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

Why have you morphed again?

Because it annoys me when someone replies to 5 points in my post,
then at the end, after I've read and replied back, informs me
they've killfiled me. Killfiling should just be done silently,
instead of the childish behaviour of getting the last word in.

Grow up, Peter. Stop deliberately annoying people, then you won't
get plonked so often. You're just acting like a brat.


Me?! It's the people plonking me just because they disagree with
something I said, and then also declaring it publicly, and after
having made me read through their entire 5 point reply. If I
killfile something I simply do it silently, or just say "I'm fed up
with you".


Prick.


Go knife a cyclist and **** off.
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Default Wrong thermostat in electric shower?

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 00:18:02 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 6:54:17 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:20:56 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:10:35 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:03:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

But the whole *range* is too high. I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm
assuming that any given one can be adjusted within that range, ie 71C to 105C
and why would a shower water heater ever have an output anywhere in that range.
You'd think the max you'd want would be, IDK, 120F? And that assumes it's
getting mixed with cold after.

It's not getting mixed with cold, that sensor is on the outlet leading to the shower head.

I read it as that was the default on and off points. So without adjusting it, it would cut out at 105C and switch back on at 71C.

I read it as that is the possible range for that device. You can't adjust infinitely, there has to be a spec for the possible range.


The 105C/71C was what I saw in the introduction, I guess it's the default. The table on page 11 of the pdf shows it can be set from 2-220C.

If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?

How do you know it's there for the case where you overheat it and not as
part of normal operation?

I know it's not in normal operation, or I'd feel the water changing temperature.

Not true. On demand WHs can maintain temp.


They'd need to switch faster with a smaller hysteresis than the shower stats do.


Well then I guess you're ****ed and going to have fluctuating shower temps because you're heater is a POS.


No, because you've failed to understand how it works. The stats are for emergency cutout, to stop scalding. The temperature is controlled by varying the water pressure, or choosing half or full element heating.

I have however noticed if I deliberately turn it too high (by lowering the pressure dial), it cycles on and off.

If it's really operating at a lower temp range
then it could be the normal thermostat. What strongly implies that is
that you say it only works one element.

I assume that's so if you're using 8kW, that it cuts it to 4kW so as not to give you cold water. If you're on 4kW, then it cuts it completely off, but whatever you're using, you only lose 4kW of heat.

It could cycle 8kw just as easily as 4kw,just more cycling.


That would require a smaller hysteresis, and a more expensive stat - both to give less hysteresis and to switch double the current.


So you bought a cheap POS heater. The cost difference there is negligible.


No, because mine doesn't cycle at all, so the temperature is exactly constant. The stats are in case of a problem like loss of pressure. It's for an emergency situation only.

If it's an over temp cutoff,
one that means something is wrong, then it should cut off both elements.

The other one cuts off both elements.

As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

I've never seen that in any appliance. When it reaches a true high limit
cutoff, it stops the whole thing, very often permanently.

Not on any UK shower I've seen, they cycle on and off, you don't want to have to reset the bloody thing just because you turn it too high or the water pressure drops when someone flushes the toilet.

It should take a lot more than that to exceed a max do not exceed point.


How else could you prevent it, considering different houses have completely different water pressures.


With a simple thermostat.


Which is what I have, it cuts out if there's a loss of pressure. Under normal operating conditions, the pressure from my mains is constant, and I set the valve to make it run at the temperature I want for my shower. It remains at that temperature forever more, or until it becomes summer and I feel like a cooler shower, or the incoming mains is a bit warmer.

The bottom end of the pressure scale (for the hottest water) may be correct or a high pressure house, but will burn you in a low pressure house.

then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

Since there's no stat for user control of temperature, and that's done by altering the pressure, it's very easy to turn it too hot (as it depends on mains pressure and mains temperature as to how high you should turn it).

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Default Wrong thermostat in electric shower?

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 00:10:06 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 6:48:12 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:14:13 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:25:03 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:04:34 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:03:16 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

Forgot to add, if you really want to know and have easy access to it,
put a volt meter on the thermostats and watch what happens vs water
temp.

Good idea. Tested. They switch as I thought. Both elements stay on permanently unless I turn it to an uncomfortably high temperature, then one cuts out for several seconds. I couldn't get the other to cut out, that's probably if the mains pressure drops lower.

Uncomfortably hot 105c


But as you've said, it doesn't have to be 105C, and it isn't. It cuts out at about the temperature I'd consider my skin about to be damaged,.

If it cycled all the time it would be annoying, as incandescent lights would dim and brighten each time it switched it

Any heater like that is going to cycle


Yet it doesn't, as the temperature is fine tuned by pressure. The heater is either off, 4kW, or 8kW, and remains that way or the whole showering session.


Wtf? The shower changes it's flow rate instead of the obvious, ie the thermostat cycling? That's one of the dumbest things I've seen here in a long time. And it's flow rate that would have to change, not pressure.


You seem confused. When I take a shower, I select 4kW or 8kW, then adkjust the pressure valve until it's precisely the temperature I want. That temperature stays constant. Next time I take a shower it will be left set the same.

and FF it causes your lights to dim, you have bad wiring.


It doesn't take much of a voltage drop for you to see lights dimming, only a couple of volts. And drawing over 30A on a 100A system tends to do that.


Well 100a service, you couldn't get that installed here today. It's circa wwii. I


You're forgetting we have a decent voltage in the UK. Call it 200A for your piddly little 110V service.

- in fact I remember as a kid my parents' shower did the same as mine but much faster - it only had one heating element, 7kW, but the switching was for 1 second, as the lights would dim and brighten quite often when you turned it too high. It's basically just an anti-scold (or damage to the heater perhaps) feature to protect against water pressure dropping, or you turning the dial too high.


I have 200a service, 3 ton ac, double ovens, electric dryer, no lights dim, ever.


No point in wasting money on thicker wiring just to stop lights dimming. And they don't with LED lighting anyway.
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