I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 14:50:48 -0000, "Kristy Ogilvie"
wrote:

I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

Are you sure about the part number? The 36T is a thermostat that can
be ordered with various set points. I doubt they would use the 105C
version for a shower. Perhaps other versions can switch 20A. As for
your last question, it is not being used as a safety cutoff like the
other one. It is being used as a thermostat. Leaving one element on
full time while switching the other probably works well for their
intended use.

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.


It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp. But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation, then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water. If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for there to
be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at least in tank type
heaters.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?

As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for there to
be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at least in tank type
heaters.

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

But the whole *range* is too high. I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm
assuming that any given one can be adjusted within that range, ie 71C to 105C
and why would a shower water heater ever have an output anywhere in that range.
You'd think the max you'd want would be, IDK, 120F? And that assumes it's
getting mixed with cold after.




If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?


How do you know it's there for the case where you overheat it and not as
part of normal operation? If it's really operating at a lower temp range
then it could be the normal thermostat. What strongly implies that is
that you say it only works one element. If it's an over temp cutoff,
one that means something is wrong, then it should cut off both elements.




As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

I've never seen that in any appliance. When it reaches a true high limit
cutoff, it stops the whole thing, very often permanently.





then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:03:16 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

But the whole *range* is too high. I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm
assuming that any given one can be adjusted within that range, ie 71C to 105C
and why would a shower water heater ever have an output anywhere in that range.
You'd think the max you'd want would be, IDK, 120F? And that assumes it's
getting mixed with cold after.




If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?


How do you know it's there for the case where you overheat it and not as
part of normal operation? If it's really operating at a lower temp range
then it could be the normal thermostat. What strongly implies that is
that you say it only works one element. If it's an over temp cutoff,
one that means something is wrong, then it should cut off both elements.




As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

I've never seen that in any appliance. When it reaches a true high limit
cutoff, it stops the whole thing, very often permanently.





then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

Forgot to add, if you really want to know and have easy access to it,
put a volt meter on the thermostats and watch what happens vs water
temp.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:03:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

But the whole *range* is too high. I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm
assuming that any given one can be adjusted within that range, ie 71C to 105C
and why would a shower water heater ever have an output anywhere in that range.
You'd think the max you'd want would be, IDK, 120F? And that assumes it's
getting mixed with cold after.

It's not getting mixed with cold, that sensor is on the outlet leading to the shower head.

I read it as that was the default on and off points. So without adjusting it, it would cut out at 105C and switch back on at 71C.

If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?

How do you know it's there for the case where you overheat it and not as
part of normal operation?

I know it's not in normal operation, or I'd feel the water changing temperature. I have however noticed if I deliberately turn it too high (by lowering the pressure dial), it cycles on and off.

If it's really operating at a lower temp range
then it could be the normal thermostat. What strongly implies that is
that you say it only works one element.

I assume that's so if you're using 8kW, that it cuts it to 4kW so as not to give you cold water. If you're on 4kW, then it cuts it completely off, but whatever you're using, you only lose 4kW of heat.

If it's an over temp cutoff,
one that means something is wrong, then it should cut off both elements.

The other one cuts off both elements.

As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

I've never seen that in any appliance. When it reaches a true high limit
cutoff, it stops the whole thing, very often permanently.

Not on any UK shower I've seen, they cycle on and off, you don't want to have to reset the bloody thing just because you turn it too high or the water pressure drops when someone flushes the toilet.

then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

Since there's no stat for user control of temperature, and that's done by altering the pressure, it's very easy to turn it too hot (as it depends on mains pressure and mains temperature as to how high you should turn it).

Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4
wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11 That cuts out at 105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements. It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that
is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat
was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should
be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a
water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:04:34 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:03:16 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

But the whole *range* is too high. I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm
assuming that any given one can be adjusted within that range, ie 71C to 105C
and why would a shower water heater ever have an output anywhere in that range.
You'd think the max you'd want would be, IDK, 120F? And that assumes it's
getting mixed with cold after.




If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?


How do you know it's there for the case where you overheat it and not as
part of normal operation? If it's really operating at a lower temp range
then it could be the normal thermostat. What strongly implies that is
that you say it only works one element. If it's an over temp cutoff,
one that means something is wrong, then it should cut off both elements.




As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

I've never seen that in any appliance. When it reaches a true high limit
cutoff, it stops the whole thing, very often permanently.





then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

Forgot to add, if you really want to know and have easy access to it,
put a volt meter on the thermostats and watch what happens vs water
temp.

Good idea. Tested. They switch as I thought. Both elements stay on permanently unless I turn it to an uncomfortably high temperature, then one cuts out for several seconds. I couldn't get the other to cut out, that's probably if the mains pressure drops lower.

If it cycled all the time it would be annoying, as incandescent lights would dim and brighten each time it switched it - in fact I remember as a kid my parents' shower did the same as mine but much faster - it only had one heating element, 7kW, but the switching was for 1 second, as the lights would dim and brighten quite often when you turned it too high. It's basically just an anti-scold (or damage to the heater perhaps) feature to protect against water pressure dropping, or you turning the dial too high.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:20:08 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4
wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11 That cuts out at 105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements. It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that
is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat
was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should
be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a
water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

Stop taking an interest in me you dirty old man.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 14:50:48 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson",
"Steven ******","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.), the pathological
resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

FLUSH the abnormal sociopathic attention whore's latest idiotic,
attention-baiting BULL**** unread again

--
about Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
trolling:
"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again."
MID:

--
ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"You're an annoying troll and I'm done with you and your
stupidity."
MID:

--
AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information."
MID:

--
Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen."
MID:

--
Phil Lee describing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I've never seen such misplaced pride in being a ****ing moronic motorist."
MID:

--
Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID:

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID:

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID:

--
Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"It's like arguing with a demented frog."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"the **** poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel."
MID:

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: 20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars

--
JoeyDee to Birdbrain
"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You're just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments."
MID: l-september.org

--
Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson Sword" LOL):
"He's just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be."
MID:

--
asking Birdbrain:
"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?"
MID:

--
Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now "James
Wilkinson" LOL):
"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It's from last
month some time. You're like a dog who's just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder's fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed."
MID:

--
Richard to pathetic ****** Hucker:
"You haven't bred?
Only useful thing you've done in your pathetic existence."
MID:

--
about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
""not the sharpest knife in the drawer"'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a ******** with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots."
MID:

--
francis about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence"
MID:

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"If people like JWS didn't exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of "invincible ignorance"."
MID:

--
Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his **** is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone."
MID:

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 10:41:36 -0500, Pat, yet another brain dead
troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered:

Are you sure about the part number? The 36T is a thermostat that can
be ordered with various set points. I doubt they would use the 105C
version for a shower. Perhaps other versions can switch 20A. As for
your last question, it is not being used as a safety cutoff like the
other one. It is being used as a thermostat. Leaving one element on
full time while switching the other probably works well for their
intended use.

....and troll-feeding idiot no.1 ran along to swallow the abnormal attention
whore's latest idiotic bait, hook, line and sinker! tsk

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 07:44:12 -0800 (PST), tardo_4 an especially stupid,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:


I think I have part of your answer.

The answer is that he is an abnormal attention whore and you are an abnormal
troll-feeding senile idiot, tardo_4!

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 09:03:12 -0800 (PST), tardo_4 an especially stupid,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:

FLUSH all the sick troll **** unread

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 09:04:34 -0800 (PST), tardo_4 an especially stupid,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:

Forgot to add, if you really want to know and have easy access to it,
put a volt meter on the thermostats and watch what happens vs water
temp.

ALL he wants to know is whether you will KEEP sucking him off, every time he
wants you to do so, tardo_4! BG

"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news
Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4
wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11 That cuts out at 105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements. It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part
that is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can
be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat
was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should
be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a
water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

He can't **** off, his dick is too small to **** anything except cats.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:13:28 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news
Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4
wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11 That cuts out at 105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements. It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part
that is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can
be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat
was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should
be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a
water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

He can't **** off, his dick is too small to **** anything except cats.

On what do you base this absurd assumption?

On 2018-12-15 2:30 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:13:28 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news
Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4
wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy.* I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11** That cuts out at 105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements.* It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer.* If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to.* So, I think what you have is a part
that is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can
be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts.* What you have could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater.* Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong?* One letter or number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat
was rated at.* The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A.* I see further down the datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles.* Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok.* Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should
be switching the smaller element?* Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common.* Typically there is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a
water pressure control.* So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down.* It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

He can't **** off, his dick is too small to **** anything except cats.

On what do you base this absurd assumption?

some people think attacking the size of a man's penis is a real insult

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:38:11 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:30 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:13:28 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4
wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11 That cuts out at 105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements. It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part
that is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can
be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat
was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should
be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a
water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

He can't **** off, his dick is too small to **** anything except cats.

On what do you base this absurd assumption?

some people think attacking the size of a man's penis is a real insult

It would be if it was true and he knew it was true. But if I call you something which you're not, eg. fat, then you won't be insulted, and would just assume I'm an idiot.

On 2018-12-15 2:42 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:38:11 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:30 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:13:28 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4
wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy.* I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11** That cuts out at 105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements.* It does have another cutout on the other end of the
heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer.* If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to.* So, I think what you have is a part
that is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and
cut-off can
be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts.* What you have
could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater.* Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong?* One letter or number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat
was rated at.* The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A.* I see further down the datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles.* Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok.* Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should
be switching the smaller element?* Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common.* Typically there is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a
water pressure control.* So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down.* It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at
least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

He can't **** off, his dick is too small to **** anything except cats.

On what do you base this absurd assumption?

some people think attacking the size of a man's penis is a real insult

It would be if it was true and he knew it was true.* But if I call you
something which you're not, eg. fat, then you won't be insulted, and
would just assume I'm an idiot.

i would be inclined to go with your second thought on the matter ,
it fascinates me when people insult people that they don't know ,
like how effective can it be , for a good insult it has to come ,
from someone you care about that gives it some sting value

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:47:38 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:42 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:38:11 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:30 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:13:28 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4
wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11 That cuts out at 105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements. It does have another cutout on the other end of the
heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part
that is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and
cut-off can
be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have
could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat
was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should
be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a
water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at
least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

He can't **** off, his dick is too small to **** anything except cats.

On what do you base this absurd assumption?

some people think attacking the size of a man's penis is a real insult

It would be if it was true and he knew it was true. But if I call you
something which you're not, eg. fat, then you won't be insulted, and
would just assume I'm an idiot.

i would be inclined to go with your second thought on the matter ,
it fascinates me when people insult people that they don't know ,
like how effective can it be , for a good insult it has to come ,
from someone you care about that gives it some sting value

Indeed, I once called a policeman a ****** (for causing a 3 mile tailback by parking badly) and he just ignored me.

On 2018-12-15 3:25 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:47:38 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:42 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:38:11 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:30 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:13:28 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4

wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy.* I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11** That cuts out at
105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements.* It does have another cutout on the other end of the
heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer.* If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to.* So, I think what you have is a
part
that is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and
cut-off can
be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts.* What you have
could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater.* Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong?* One letter or number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said,
they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat
was rated at.* The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A.* I see further down the datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles.* Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok.* Maybe it's wired up wrong and it
should
be switching the smaller element?* Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common.* Typically there
is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate -
this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or
both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is
by a
water pressure control.* So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down.* It would be damn annoying if you had to
replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at
least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

He can't **** off, his dick is too small to **** anything except
cats.

On what do you base this absurd assumption?

some people think attacking the size of a man's penis is a real insult

It would be if it was true and he knew it was true.* But if I call you
something which you're not, eg. fat, then you won't be insulted, and
would just assume I'm an idiot.

i would be inclined to go with your second thought on the matter ,
it fascinates me when people insult people that they don't know ,
like how effective can it be , for a good insult it has to come ,
from someone you care about that gives it some sting value

Indeed, I once called a policeman a ****** (for causing a 3 mile
tailback by parking badly) and he just ignored me.

sometimes that's the best course

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:25:03 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:04:34 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:03:16 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

But the whole *range* is too high. I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm
assuming that any given one can be adjusted within that range, ie 71C to 105C
and why would a shower water heater ever have an output anywhere in that range.
You'd think the max you'd want would be, IDK, 120F? And that assumes it's
getting mixed with cold after.




If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?


How do you know it's there for the case where you overheat it and not as
part of normal operation? If it's really operating at a lower temp range
then it could be the normal thermostat. What strongly implies that is
that you say it only works one element. If it's an over temp cutoff,
one that means something is wrong, then it should cut off both elements.




As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

I've never seen that in any appliance. When it reaches a true high limit
cutoff, it stops the whole thing, very often permanently.





then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

Forgot to add, if you really want to know and have easy access to it,
put a volt meter on the thermostats and watch what happens vs water
temp.

Good idea. Tested. They switch as I thought. Both elements stay on permanently unless I turn it to an uncomfortably high temperature, then one cuts out for several seconds. I couldn't get the other to cut out, that's probably if the mains pressure drops lower.

Uncomfortably hot 105c







If it cycled all the time it would be annoying, as incandescent lights would dim and brighten each time it switched it

Any heater like that is going to cycle and FF it causes your lights to dim, you have bad wiring.




- in fact I remember as a kid my parents' shower did the same as mine but much faster - it only had one heating element, 7kW, but the switching was for 1 second, as the lights would dim and brighten quite often when you turned it too high. It's basically just an anti-scold (or damage to the heater perhaps) feature to protect against water pressure dropping, or you turning the dial too high.

On 12/15/2018 8:20 AM, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being
nosy.* I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water
leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit,
which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer.* If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance
they can be *set* to.* So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts.* What you have could
certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater.* Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong?* One letter or number difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they
haven't.

If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was
rated at.* The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the
resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the
stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load,
i.e. more than 17.75A.* I see further down the datasheet that the stat's
actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles.* Since
it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is
ok.* Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller
element?* Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?

As to having two cut-offs, that's very common.* Typically there is a
thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a
basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a
water pressure control.* So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then
in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power,
then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools
back down.* It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every
time you overheated it.

If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for there to
be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at least in tank type
heaters.

Could these temp limits be to avoid boiling the water and thereby
exceeding pressure limits, like our pressure/temperature safety valves
on tank heaters?

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:10:35 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:03:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

But the whole *range* is too high. I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm
assuming that any given one can be adjusted within that range, ie 71C to 105C
and why would a shower water heater ever have an output anywhere in that range.
You'd think the max you'd want would be, IDK, 120F? And that assumes it's
getting mixed with cold after.

It's not getting mixed with cold, that sensor is on the outlet leading to the shower head.

I read it as that was the default on and off points. So without adjusting it, it would cut out at 105C and switch back on at 71C.

I read it as that is the possible range for that device. You can't adjust infinitely, there has to be a spec for the possible range.



If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?

How do you know it's there for the case where you overheat it and not as
part of normal operation?

I know it's not in normal operation, or I'd feel the water changing temperature.

Not true. On demand WHs can maintain temp.


I have however noticed if I deliberately turn it too high (by lowering the pressure dial), it cycles on and off.

If it's really operating at a lower temp range
then it could be the normal thermostat. What strongly implies that is
that you say it only works one element.

I assume that's so if you're using 8kW, that it cuts it to 4kW so as not to give you cold water. If you're on 4kW, then it cuts it completely off, but whatever you're using, you only lose 4kW of heat.


It could cycle 8kw just as easily as 4kw,just more cycling.



If it's an over temp cutoff,
one that means something is wrong, then it should cut off both elements..

The other one cuts off both elements.

As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

I've never seen that in any appliance. When it reaches a true high limit
cutoff, it stops the whole thing, very often permanently.

Not on any UK shower I've seen, they cycle on and off, you don't want to have to reset the bloody thing just because you turn it too high or the water pressure drops when someone flushes the toilet.

It should take a lot more than that to exceed a max do not exceed point.




then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

Since there's no stat for user control of temperature, and that's done by altering the pressure, it's very easy to turn it too hot (as it depends on mains pressure and mains temperature as to how high you should turn it).

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:14:13 -0800 (PST), tardo_4 an especially stupid,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:

FLUSH senile ****

heater perhaps) feature to protect against water pressure dropping, or
you turning the dial too high.

Your filthy senile Yankie gob hermetically glued to the Scottish ******'s
cock again, tardo_4? BG

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:20:56 -0800 (PST), tardo_4 an especially stupid,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:

FLUSH senile idiot's senile ****

It could cycle 8kw just as easily as 4kw,just more cycling.

YBut you obviously just CAN'T wean your toothless senile gob away from the
unwashed Scottish ******'s cock, tardo_4! BG

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:19:43 -0800, Bob F, the notorious troll-feeding
senile Yankietard, blathered again:

Could these temp limits be to avoid boiling the water and thereby
exceeding pressure limits, like our pressure/temperature safety valves
on tank heaters?

Could it be you are yet another lonely forsaken senile Yankietard whose only
remaining joy in life is sucking off filthy trolls on Usenet, you ****ed up
troll-feeding senile idiot?

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:08:18 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 3:25 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:47:38 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:42 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:38:11 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:30 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:13:28 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4

wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11 That cuts out at
105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements. It does have another cutout on the other end of the
heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a
part
that is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and
cut-off can
be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have
could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said,
they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat
was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it
should
be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there
is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate -
this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or
both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is
by a
water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to
replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at
least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

He can't **** off, his dick is too small to **** anything except
cats.

On what do you base this absurd assumption?

some people think attacking the size of a man's penis is a real insult

It would be if it was true and he knew it was true. But if I call you
something which you're not, eg. fat, then you won't be insulted, and
would just assume I'm an idiot.

i would be inclined to go with your second thought on the matter ,
it fascinates me when people insult people that they don't know ,
like how effective can it be , for a good insult it has to come ,
from someone you care about that gives it some sting value

Indeed, I once called a policeman a ****** (for causing a 3 mile
tailback by parking badly) and he just ignored me.

sometimes that's the best course

Pigs don't usually pass up the opportunity to get annoyed.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:14:13 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:25:03 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:04:34 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:03:16 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

But the whole *range* is too high. I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm
assuming that any given one can be adjusted within that range, ie 71C to 105C
and why would a shower water heater ever have an output anywhere in that range.
You'd think the max you'd want would be, IDK, 120F? And that assumes it's
getting mixed with cold after.




If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?


How do you know it's there for the case where you overheat it and not as
part of normal operation? If it's really operating at a lower temp range
then it could be the normal thermostat. What strongly implies that is
that you say it only works one element. If it's an over temp cutoff,
one that means something is wrong, then it should cut off both elements.




As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

I've never seen that in any appliance. When it reaches a true high limit
cutoff, it stops the whole thing, very often permanently.





then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

Forgot to add, if you really want to know and have easy access to it,
put a volt meter on the thermostats and watch what happens vs water
temp.

Good idea. Tested. They switch as I thought. Both elements stay on permanently unless I turn it to an uncomfortably high temperature, then one cuts out for several seconds. I couldn't get the other to cut out, that's probably if the mains pressure drops lower.

Uncomfortably hot 105c

But as you've said, it doesn't have to be 105C, and it isn't. It cuts out at about the temperature I'd consider my skin about to be damaged,.

If it cycled all the time it would be annoying, as incandescent lights would dim and brighten each time it switched it

Any heater like that is going to cycle

Yet it doesn't, as the temperature is fine tuned by pressure. The heater is either off, 4kW, or 8kW, and remains that way or the whole showering session.

and FF it causes your lights to dim, you have bad wiring.

It doesn't take much of a voltage drop for you to see lights dimming, only a couple of volts. And drawing over 30A on a 100A system tends to do that.

- in fact I remember as a kid my parents' shower did the same as mine but much faster - it only had one heating element, 7kW, but the switching was for 1 second, as the lights would dim and brighten quite often when you turned it too high. It's basically just an anti-scold (or damage to the heater perhaps) feature to protect against water pressure dropping, or you turning the dial too high.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:19:43 -0000, Bob F wrote:

On 12/15/2018 8:20 AM, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being
nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water
leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit,
which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could
certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they
haven't.

If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was
rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the
resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the
stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load,
i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's
actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since
it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is
ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller
element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?

As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a
thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a
basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a
water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then
in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power,
then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools
back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every
time you overheated it.

If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for there to
be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at least in tank type
heaters.

Could these temp limits be to avoid boiling the water and thereby
exceeding pressure limits, like our pressure/temperature safety valves
on tank heaters?

I don't see the point in having that if you need to limit it to non-skin-burning temps anyway.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:20:56 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:10:35 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:03:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

But the whole *range* is too high. I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm
assuming that any given one can be adjusted within that range, ie 71C to 105C
and why would a shower water heater ever have an output anywhere in that range.
You'd think the max you'd want would be, IDK, 120F? And that assumes it's
getting mixed with cold after.

It's not getting mixed with cold, that sensor is on the outlet leading to the shower head.

I read it as that was the default on and off points. So without adjusting it, it would cut out at 105C and switch back on at 71C.

I read it as that is the possible range for that device. You can't adjust infinitely, there has to be a spec for the possible range.

The 105C/71C was what I saw in the introduction, I guess it's the default. The table on page 11 of the pdf shows it can be set from 2-220C.

If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?

How do you know it's there for the case where you overheat it and not as
part of normal operation?

I know it's not in normal operation, or I'd feel the water changing temperature.

Not true. On demand WHs can maintain temp.

They'd need to switch faster with a smaller hysteresis than the shower stats do.

I have however noticed if I deliberately turn it too high (by lowering the pressure dial), it cycles on and off.

If it's really operating at a lower temp range
then it could be the normal thermostat. What strongly implies that is
that you say it only works one element.

I assume that's so if you're using 8kW, that it cuts it to 4kW so as not to give you cold water. If you're on 4kW, then it cuts it completely off, but whatever you're using, you only lose 4kW of heat.

It could cycle 8kw just as easily as 4kw,just more cycling.

That would require a smaller hysteresis, and a more expensive stat - both to give less hysteresis and to switch double the current.

If it's an over temp cutoff,
one that means something is wrong, then it should cut off both elements.

The other one cuts off both elements.

As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

I've never seen that in any appliance. When it reaches a true high limit
cutoff, it stops the whole thing, very often permanently.

Not on any UK shower I've seen, they cycle on and off, you don't want to have to reset the bloody thing just because you turn it too high or the water pressure drops when someone flushes the toilet.

It should take a lot more than that to exceed a max do not exceed point.

How else could you prevent it, considering different houses have completely different water pressures. The bottom end of the pressure scale (for the hottest water) may be correct or a high pressure house, but will burn you in a low pressure house.

then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

Since there's no stat for user control of temperature, and that's done by altering the pressure, it's very easy to turn it too hot (as it depends on mains pressure and mains temperature as to how high you should turn it).

On 2018-12-15 4:44 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:08:18 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 3:25 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:47:38 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:42 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:38:11 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:30 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:13:28 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in
message
news Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4

wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy
Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy.* I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated
where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11** That cuts out at
105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements.* It does have another cutout on the other end of the
heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer.* If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified
open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set
points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to.* So, I think what you have is a
part
that is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and
cut-off can
be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts.* What you have
could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater.* Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong?* One letter or
number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said,
they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really
20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the
stat
was rated at.* The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I
measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75
ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than
half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A.* I see further down the
datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles.* Since it probably only kicks in if you
overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok.* Maybe it's wired up wrong and it
should
be switching the smaller element?* Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common.* Typically there
is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate -
this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or
both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is
by a
water pressure control.* So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts
both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down.* It would be damn annoying if you had to
replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at
least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

He can't **** off, his dick is too small to **** anything except
cats.

On what do you base this absurd assumption?

some people think attacking the size of a man's penis is a real
insult

It would be if it was true and he knew it was true.* But if I call you
something which you're not, eg. fat, then you won't be insulted, and
would just assume I'm an idiot.

i would be inclined to go with your second thought on the matter ,
it fascinates me when people insult people that they don't know ,
like how effective can it be , for a good insult it has to come ,
from someone you care about that gives it some sting value

Indeed, I once called a policeman a ****** (for causing a 3 mile
tailback by parking badly) and he just ignored me.

sometimes that's the best course

Pigs don't usually pass up the opportunity to get annoyed.

is that right , i never see them any more

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 6:48:12 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:14:13 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:25:03 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:04:34 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:03:16 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

But the whole *range* is too high. I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm
assuming that any given one can be adjusted within that range, ie 71C to 105C
and why would a shower water heater ever have an output anywhere in that range.
You'd think the max you'd want would be, IDK, 120F? And that assumes it's
getting mixed with cold after.




If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?


How do you know it's there for the case where you overheat it and not as
part of normal operation? If it's really operating at a lower temp range
then it could be the normal thermostat. What strongly implies that is
that you say it only works one element. If it's an over temp cutoff,
one that means something is wrong, then it should cut off both elements.




As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

I've never seen that in any appliance. When it reaches a true high limit
cutoff, it stops the whole thing, very often permanently.





then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

Forgot to add, if you really want to know and have easy access to it,
put a volt meter on the thermostats and watch what happens vs water
temp.

Good idea. Tested. They switch as I thought. Both elements stay on permanently unless I turn it to an uncomfortably high temperature, then one cuts out for several seconds. I couldn't get the other to cut out, that's probably if the mains pressure drops lower.

Uncomfortably hot 105c

But as you've said, it doesn't have to be 105C, and it isn't. It cuts out at about the temperature I'd consider my skin about to be damaged,.

If it cycled all the time it would be annoying, as incandescent lights would dim and brighten each time it switched it

Any heater like that is going to cycle

Yet it doesn't, as the temperature is fine tuned by pressure. The heater is either off, 4kW, or 8kW, and remains that way or the whole showering session.




Wtf? The shower changes it's flow rate instead of the obvious, ie the thermostat cycling? That's one of the dumbest things I've seen here in a long time. And it's flow rate that would have to change, not pressure.




and FF it causes your lights to dim, you have bad wiring.

It doesn't take much of a voltage drop for you to see lights dimming, only a couple of volts. And drawing over 30A on a 100A system tends to do that.

On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 00:00:38 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 4:44 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:08:18 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 3:25 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:47:38 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:42 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:38:11 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:30 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On what do you base this absurd assumption?

some people think attacking the size of a man's penis is a real
insult

It would be if it was true and he knew it was true. But if I call you
something which you're not, eg. fat, then you won't be insulted, and
would just assume I'm an idiot.

i would be inclined to go with your second thought on the matter ,
it fascinates me when people insult people that they don't know ,
like how effective can it be , for a good insult it has to come ,
from someone you care about that gives it some sting value

Indeed, I once called a policeman a ****** (for causing a 3 mile
tailback by parking badly) and he just ignored me.

sometimes that's the best course

Pigs don't usually pass up the opportunity to get annoyed.

is that right , i never see them any more

No mounties?

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 6:54:17 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:20:56 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:10:35 PM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:03:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the water leaves the heater unit, this: http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11

That cuts out at 105C (ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two elements.

It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater unit, which cuts them both off.

1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual datasheet,
it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges, tolerance
they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part that is marked
as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can be set
by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could certainly
be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any chance you
have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number difference matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they haven't.

But the whole *range* is too high. I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm
assuming that any given one can be adjusted within that range, ie 71C to 105C
and why would a shower water heater ever have an output anywhere in that range.
You'd think the max you'd want would be, IDK, 120F? And that assumes it's
getting mixed with cold after.

It's not getting mixed with cold, that sensor is on the outlet leading to the shower head.

I read it as that was the default on and off points. So without adjusting it, it would cut out at 105C and switch back on at 71C.

I read it as that is the possible range for that device. You can't adjust infinitely, there has to be a spec for the possible range.

The 105C/71C was what I saw in the introduction, I guess it's the default.. The table on page 11 of the pdf shows it can be set from 2-220C.

If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A, then
this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms, with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for 30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe 15,000 cycles?

How do you know it's there for the case where you overheat it and not as
part of normal operation?

I know it's not in normal operation, or I'd feel the water changing temperature.

Not true. On demand WHs can maintain temp.

They'd need to switch faster with a smaller hysteresis than the shower stats do.

Well then I guess you're ****ed and going to have fluctuating shower temps because you're heater is a POS.






I have however noticed if I deliberately turn it too high (by lowering the pressure dial), it cycles on and off.

If it's really operating at a lower temp range
then it could be the normal thermostat. What strongly implies that is
that you say it only works one element.

I assume that's so if you're using 8kW, that it cuts it to 4kW so as not to give you cold water. If you're on 4kW, then it cuts it completely off, but whatever you're using, you only lose 4kW of heat.

It could cycle 8kw just as easily as 4kw,just more cycling.

That would require a smaller hysteresis, and a more expensive stat - both to give less hysteresis and to switch double the current.

So you bought a cheap POS heater. The cost difference there is negligible.




If it's an over temp cutoff,
one that means something is wrong, then it should cut off both elements.

The other one cuts off both elements.

As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a thermostat
for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly, then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both off.

I've never seen that in any appliance. When it reaches a true high limit
cutoff, it stops the whole thing, very often permanently.

Not on any UK shower I've seen, they cycle on and off, you don't want to have to reset the bloody thing just because you turn it too high or the water pressure drops when someone flushes the toilet.

It should take a lot more than that to exceed a max do not exceed point..


How else could you prevent it, considering different houses have completely different water pressures.

With a simple thermostat.


The bottom end of the pressure scale (for the hottest water) may be correct or a high pressure house, but will burn you in a low pressure house.

then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one every time you overheated it.

The point is, if it overheats something is wrong. Your statement above
suggests that overheating it is frequent? For example, I had one
of those instant hot water dispensers for the kitchen sink. It quit and
it turned out the thermal fuse had blown out. But there was no reason,
it had not gone empty, etc. The new part was a different design. Which
lead me to believe they had a problem, the original ones were set too
low or failed for another reason. But that's how it worked. Thermostat
for normal operation, thermal fuse for when things go wrong. Had an
electric kettle, same kind of design.

Since there's no stat for user control of temperature, and that's done by altering the pressure, it's very easy to turn it too hot (as it depends on mains pressure and mains temperature as to how high you should turn it)..

On 2018-12-15 5:11 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 00:00:38 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 4:44 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 23:08:18 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 3:25 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:47:38 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:42 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:38:11 -0000, % % wrote:

On 2018-12-15 2:30 p.m., Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On what do you base this absurd assumption?

some people think attacking the size of a man's penis is a real
insult

It would be if it was true and he knew it was true.* But if I
call you
something which you're not, eg. fat, then you won't be insulted, and
would just assume I'm an idiot.

i would be inclined to go with your second thought on the matter ,
it fascinates me when people insult people that they don't know ,
like how effective can it be , for a good insult it has to come ,
from someone you care about that gives it some sting value

Indeed, I once called a policeman a ****** (for causing a 3 mile
tailback by parking badly) and he just ignored me.

sometimes that's the best course

Pigs don't usually pass up the opportunity to get annoyed.

is that right , i never see them any more

No mounties?

we have 4 mounties on duty at any one time i never see them ,
they can't even find the road i live on most people can't

"Kristy Ogilvie" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:13:28 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news
Kristy Ogilvie wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 15:44:12 -0000, trader_4
wrote:
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 9:50:53 AM UTC-5, Kristy Ogilvie
wrote:
I'm in the process of fitting a Triton electric shower, and was
being nosy. I noticed it has a thermal cutout situated where the
water leaves the heater unit, this:
http://www.datasheet-pdf.info/entry/36TXE11 That cuts out at 105C
(ouch!) and it's also switching 20 amps when
it's rated at 10 amps, AND it only cuts off ONE of the two
elements. It does have another cutout on the other end of the heater
unit,
which cuts them both off. 1) Why have two cutouts?
2) Why overload the first one?
3) Why only cut off half the power?

I think I have part of your answer. If you pull up the actual
datasheet, it says this:

36Ts (automatic reset) are supplied to customer specified open and
close calibration set points with a tolerance on both set points.

Ah, I didn't read that far down.

It has a table showing the various versions and the temp ranges,
tolerance they can be *set* to. So, I think what you have is a part
that is
marked as the generic, ie 105C cut-off, but the cut-in and cut-off can
be
set by the manufacturer to the customer's reqts. What you have could
certainly be set to a lower cut-off temp.

That makes sense.

But having said that, the range of 71C
to 105C still sounds very high for a shower water heater. Any
chance you have the exact part number wrong? One letter or number
difference
matters.

Well presumably that's what it CAN be set to, and like you said, they
haven't.
If you have the current figured out correctly and it's really 20A,
then this part should not be in there.

An estimate, but I knew it was more than the 10A I thought the stat
was rated at. The shower is 8.5kW (35.5A at 240V), and I measured
the resistances of the elements (when cold) as 11.3 and 14.75 ohms,
with the stat switching the 11.3, which would be more than half the
full load, i.e. more than 17.75A. I see further down the datasheet
that the stat's actually rated 10A for 100,000 cycles and 16A for
30,000 cycles. Since it probably only kicks in if you overheat the
shower, 30,000 cycles is ok. Maybe it's wired up wrong and it should
be switching the smaller element? Or at 20A it can handle maybe
15,000 cycles?
As to having two cut-offs, that's very common. Typically there is a
thermostat for normal operation,

I don't think it's normal operation for the stat to operate - this is
a basic shower where the element should be on all the time (1 or both
depending on the user setting), the fine temperature control is by a
water pressure control. So I assume if you overheat it slightly,
then in warm mode the heater goes off, and in hot mode it cuts to
half power, then if it overheats further, the other stat cuts both
off.
then one or two thermal fuses that blow if it exceeds
normal operating range, eg it's being run with no water.

They're both stats as far as I can see, which auto-reset when it
cools back down. It would be damn annoying if you had to replace one
every time you overheated it.
If there are
two elements, it's also common in water heating applications for
there to be two thermostats to regulate the two elements, at least in
tank
type heaters.

**** off and die Hucker.

He can't **** off, his dick is too small to **** anything except cats.

On what do you base this absurd assumption?

We've got the video footage of you streaking with everyone pointing and
laughing.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 16:10:06 -0800 (PST), tardo_4 an especially stupid,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:


I have 200a service, 3 ton ac, double ovens, electric dryer, no lights dim, ever.

You forgot the light in your head, troll-feeding senile dimbulb!

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 16:18:02 -0800 (PST), tardo_4 an especially stupid,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:

With a simple thermostat.

The bottom end of the pressure scale (for the hottest water) may be
correct or a high pressure house, but will burn you in a low pressure
house.

BOTH of you idiots have obviously been burned too often when your silly
mothers bathed you in too hot water!