"Beam Me Up Scotty" wrote in
message ...
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 9, 1:24 pm, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 9, 9:49 am, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I believe in a balanced budget.
Obama is having to spend because of Bush's mismanagement.
Clinton left Bush a surplus...Bush left Obama a TRILLION dollar
deficit.
TMT
How big a deficit will Obama be leaving?
I do not know...do you?
http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/...amabudget1.jpg

Whatever it will be, it would have been MUCH SMALLER IF ANY if George
Bush had not left a TRILLION dollar deficit and an economy headed
straight for a depression.
A little detail the wingers try hard to avoid noticing.
TMT
So you are saying Obama isn't fixing it, he is only riding the wave....

That is not what I said.

Reread what I wrote.

While we are waiting, please tell us why Bush destroyed the economy
and left us holding a TRILLION dollar deficit.

Wingers never want to talk about the bills that they caused.

TMT

Why did Obama triple that deficit? He Obviously thought Bush was going
in the right direction.... I think Bush was wrong and Obama is three
times as wrong as Bush was.

He tripled the deficit because there is no other way to get the economy
going again, as economists from both sides of the aisle will confirm.
McCain's economic advisor during the election said that McCain would have
had to do the same thing.

Bush was right to sign off on the stimulus. If he hadn't, there would be no
source of mortgage or consumer credit right now. He realized too late what
was necessary. Or, rather, his conservative economic advisors did.

For the alternative, see Japan, 1990s. Their real unemployment right now is
in the neighborhood of 25%, but the real story is that they've gone from
being a country of full, lifetime employment to one in which 33% are now
temporary contract workers.

Stimulus spending is always too little, too late. Likewise, this time. But
the alternative is "Hello, Herbert Hoover..." Like GW Bush, he finally
caught on at the end of his administration, but he'd already blown it.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote:


For the alternative, see Japan, 1990s. Their real unemployment right now is
in the neighborhood of 25%, but the real story is that they've gone from
being a country of full, lifetime employment to one in which 33% are now
temporary contract workers.


There are a lot of temps working in the US. Not a recent phenomena, however, the numbers
are growing.

Wes

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Beam Me Up Scotty" wrote in
message ...
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 9, 1:24 pm, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 9, 9:49 am, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I believe in a balanced budget.
Obama is having to spend because of Bush's mismanagement.
Clinton left Bush a surplus...Bush left Obama a TRILLION dollar
deficit.
TMT
How big a deficit will Obama be leaving?
I do not know...do you?
http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/...amabudget1.jpg

Whatever it will be, it would have been MUCH SMALLER IF ANY if George
Bush had not left a TRILLION dollar deficit and an economy headed
straight for a depression.
A little detail the wingers try hard to avoid noticing.
TMT
So you are saying Obama isn't fixing it, he is only riding the wave....

That is not what I said.

Reread what I wrote.

While we are waiting, please tell us why Bush destroyed the economy
and left us holding a TRILLION dollar deficit.

Wingers never want to talk about the bills that they caused.

TMT

Why did Obama triple that deficit? He Obviously thought Bush was going
in the right direction.... I think Bush was wrong and Obama is three
times as wrong as Bush was.

He tripled the deficit because there is no other way to get the economy
going again, as economists from both sides of the aisle will confirm.
McCain's economic advisor during the election said that McCain would have
had to do the same thing.

Bush was right to sign off on the stimulus. If he hadn't, there would be
no source of mortgage or consumer credit right now. He realized too late
what was necessary. Or, rather, his conservative economic advisors did.

For the alternative, see Japan, 1990s. Their real unemployment right now
is in the neighborhood of 25%, but the real story is that they've gone
from being a country of full, lifetime employment to one in which 33% are
now temporary contract workers.

Stimulus spending is always too little, too late. Likewise, this time. But
the alternative is "Hello, Herbert Hoover..." Like GW Bush, he finally
caught on at the end of his administration, but he'd already blown it.

--
Ed Huntress


And the stimulus was and is a failure! Most of the money went to Bush and
Obama's rich supporters. If it was a real stimulus, the money would have
gone to the SBA and there would have been strings attached so that the AIG
bailout money that passed through to GoldmanSacksus would not be considered
profit and used for $6.5 billion in bonus money for a company that was days
from bankruptcy. If the stimulus was successful, we would have near 16%+
real unemployment and increasing job loss.

On Sep 9, 4:25*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Beam Me Up Scotty" wrote in
...





Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 9, 1:24 pm, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 9, 9:49 am, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I believe in a balanced budget.
Obama is having to spend because of Bush's mismanagement.
Clinton left Bush a surplus...Bush left Obama a TRILLION dollar
deficit.
TMT
How big a deficit will Obama be leaving?
I do not know...do you?
http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/...amabudget1.jpg

Whatever it will be, it would have been MUCH SMALLER IF ANY if George
Bush had not left a TRILLION dollar deficit and an economy headed
straight for a depression.
A little detail the wingers try hard to avoid noticing.
TMT
So you are saying Obama isn't fixing it, he is only riding the wave.....

That is not what I said.

Reread what I wrote.

While we are waiting, please tell us why Bush destroyed the economy
and left us holding a TRILLION dollar deficit.

Wingers never want to talk about the bills that they caused.

TMT

Why did Obama triple that deficit? He Obviously thought Bush was going
in the right direction.... *I think Bush was wrong and Obama is three
times as wrong as Bush was.

He tripled the deficit because there is no other way to get the economy
going again, as economists from both sides of the aisle will confirm.
McCain's economic advisor during the election said that McCain would have
had to do the same thing.

Bush was right to sign off on the stimulus. If he hadn't, there would be no
source of mortgage or consumer credit right now. He realized too late what
was necessary. Or, rather, his conservative economic advisors did.

For the alternative, see Japan, 1990s. Their real unemployment right now is
in the neighborhood of 25%, but the real story is that they've gone from
being a country of full, lifetime employment to one in which 33% are now
temporary contract workers.

Stimulus spending is always too little, too late. Likewise, this time. But
the alternative is "Hello, Herbert Hoover..." Like GW Bush, he finally
caught on at the end of his administration, but he'd already blown it.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ed is correct.

History shows that without Government spending, we would already be in
the Bush Depression.

We still may be....we are not out of the woods.

So all you wingers keep dragging your feet and fight every Obama
effort.

You may get your wish yet to live through a Depression...that is if
you are lucky enough to live through it.

TMT

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Beam Me Up Scotty" wrote in
message ...
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 9, 1:24 pm, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 9, 9:49 am, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I believe in a balanced budget.
Obama is having to spend because of Bush's mismanagement.
Clinton left Bush a surplus...Bush left Obama a TRILLION dollar
deficit.
TMT
How big a deficit will Obama be leaving?
I do not know...do you?
http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/...amabudget1.jpg

Whatever it will be, it would have been MUCH SMALLER IF ANY if George
Bush had not left a TRILLION dollar deficit and an economy headed
straight for a depression.
A little detail the wingers try hard to avoid noticing.
TMT
So you are saying Obama isn't fixing it, he is only riding the
wave....

That is not what I said.

Reread what I wrote.

While we are waiting, please tell us why Bush destroyed the economy
and left us holding a TRILLION dollar deficit.

Wingers never want to talk about the bills that they caused.

TMT

Why did Obama triple that deficit? He Obviously thought Bush was going
in the right direction.... I think Bush was wrong and Obama is three
times as wrong as Bush was.

He tripled the deficit because there is no other way to get the economy
going again, as economists from both sides of the aisle will confirm.
McCain's economic advisor during the election said that McCain would have
had to do the same thing.

Bush was right to sign off on the stimulus. If he hadn't, there would be
no source of mortgage or consumer credit right now. He realized too late
what was necessary. Or, rather, his conservative economic advisors did.

For the alternative, see Japan, 1990s. Their real unemployment right now
is in the neighborhood of 25%, but the real story is that they've gone
from being a country of full, lifetime employment to one in which 33% are
now temporary contract workers.

Stimulus spending is always too little, too late. Likewise, this time.
But the alternative is "Hello, Herbert Hoover..." Like GW Bush, he
finally caught on at the end of his administration, but he'd already
blown it.

--
Ed Huntress


And the stimulus was and is a failure!

We won't know that for another couple of years, Bill. The first question is
what was the trendline without the stimulus, and where were the fundamentals
driving it. We really have nothing to compare it with until the recession is
over and the trends are in, in both directions.

Typically, a stimulus doesn't do anything for a year or most of a year. When
Reagan faced a small recession that started in mid-'81 (as a result of
Volcker's clampdown on money supply and credit), they pumped up the deficit
quickly and kept it up for several years. The economy made the turn in '82
and returned to the former rate in '83.

So we have a while to go, first to analyze what was happening, and, second,
to see the evidence and timing of the turnaround. This one started out as a
hellbender and it won't be quick to turn around. These deep ones tend to be
hell on employment rates for a long time, and this one is a classic in that
regard.

Most of the money went to Bush and Obama's rich supporters.

It initially went to banks and other financial institutions, which,
unfortunately, it had to. If it hadn't, there still would be no credit.

If it was a real stimulus, the money would have gone to the SBA and there
would have been strings attached so that the AIG bailout money that passed
through to GoldmanSacksus would not be considered profit and used for $6.5
billion in bonus money for a company that was days from bankruptcy.

The original terms of the stimulus payments were pretty slack, and I don't
know enough about the forces that were at work last fall to make a judgment.
In one sense, it's a measure of how the US has become a corporatist state:
the big financial institutions have us by the balls. My gut feeling is that
is the worst problem we face, in general -- too much corporate control of
government.

If the stimulus was successful, we would have near 16%+ real unemployment
and increasing job loss.

I guess you mean we *wouldn't* have those things. I don't know where you're
getting that information, but economists are not really surprised where this
one has gone. It's almost a perfect storm and few people saw all of the
dominoes falling before they fell. That's more like predicting the weather
months in advance than it is like playing a market in the short term.

It's also started out as the sharpest downturn since the Great Depression,
and the first one ever to be driven so much by finance, so there's a lot of
new information coming out of this recession that will take years to digest.

Nobody really knows for sure how to end this thing most effectively. The
people who have the job are as good as we have, and they're in the
unenviable position of having to face all of it at once. Most of the experts
seem to think they're doing as well as anyone can, but a lot of it is just
outside of anyone's control.

Keep in mind, too, that stimulus is not a sure fix, and it never was. The
point is that it's the only thing you can do that has a chance of working.
Our slow political process, which the FFs designed to slow down big changes
and to avoid precipitous moves, also slows down the government's ability to
react to a recession. And when it does try to act fast it strains the gears,
which inevitably results in mistakes, overshots and undershots. But nobody
has come up with anything better.

Fortunately for us, the US has always had a business cycle that will
overpower everything eventually. It's a force of its own. Stimulus and other
measures are attempts to speed up the recoveries. They don't behave
independently of the business-cycle fundamentals.

--
Ed Huntress