On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:46:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 20:45:43 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 11:21:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6/4/2018 10:46 PM, trader_4 wrote:



It's also another example of how allowing more people to carry, having
more guns around, brings unintended negative consequences. The gun
nuts think anybody who wants to should be allowed to carry into a club
like that. Here you had a trained FBI agent and look what happened.
Imagine 50 people in there in their 20s in there with guns and alcohol
and multiply it across the country.


I'd guess alcohol was involved. Maybe not flat out drunk, but some
degree of impairment to try that stunt.

Interesting question too, he must have been sober at some point,
so, is it normal procedure for FBI agents to stuff their weapon
into the back of their pants, which presumably would be before
he was drinking? Or do they just do that when they are drunk?
Also, what kind of gun was this? Typical semi-auto has a safety,
so the safety was off? A Glock doesn't have a traditional safety,
it has a double piece trigger, which means it can't fire unless
your finger is on the trigger and then it requires a pretty firm
pull. So, how did just reaching and picking it up discharge it?

People assume the FBI, and cops in general, are firearm experts who
understand safety but you don't need to read the news much to see that
is not true. The FBI agents are usually more "lawyer" and "accountant"
than "lawman".
My guess is he picked this gun up with his finger on the trigger.
Training for the last 3 decades or longer is that you do not put your
finger into the trigger guard until you are actually going to shoot
the gun.

But then he must have had the safety off or it would not have fired.
You can pick a Glock up like you say, which is the only service type semi-auto
I know of that does not have a conventional safety, and it won't go
off because it takes a strong pull on the trigger. You have to squeeze
and develop some significant pressure, the weight of the gun isn't enough.

Also your claim that even FBI agents can't properly and safely handle
a pistol sure doesn't advance your pro-gun, anyone and everyone should
be allowed to have one, agenda.

In article ,
says...

But then he must have had the safety off or it would not have fired.
You can pick a Glock up like you say, which is the only service type semi-auto
I know of that does not have a conventional safety, and it won't go
off because it takes a strong pull on the trigger. You have to squeeze
and develop some significant pressure, the weight of the gun isn't enough.




Standard Glocks go off with about a 4 to 5 pound trigger pull. Not very
much. There are some such as the 'New York' trigger that requires much
more, like about 10 or 12 pounds. That heavy trigger pull was developed
because cops kept shooting the gun by accident.

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 06:54:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:46:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 20:45:43 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 11:21:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6/4/2018 10:46 PM, trader_4 wrote:



It's also another example of how allowing more people to carry, having
more guns around, brings unintended negative consequences. The gun
nuts think anybody who wants to should be allowed to carry into a club
like that. Here you had a trained FBI agent and look what happened.
Imagine 50 people in there in their 20s in there with guns and alcohol
and multiply it across the country.


I'd guess alcohol was involved. Maybe not flat out drunk, but some
degree of impairment to try that stunt.

Interesting question too, he must have been sober at some point,
so, is it normal procedure for FBI agents to stuff their weapon
into the back of their pants, which presumably would be before
he was drinking? Or do they just do that when they are drunk?
Also, what kind of gun was this? Typical semi-auto has a safety,
so the safety was off? A Glock doesn't have a traditional safety,
it has a double piece trigger, which means it can't fire unless
your finger is on the trigger and then it requires a pretty firm
pull. So, how did just reaching and picking it up discharge it?

People assume the FBI, and cops in general, are firearm experts who
understand safety but you don't need to read the news much to see that
is not true. The FBI agents are usually more "lawyer" and "accountant"
than "lawman".
My guess is he picked this gun up with his finger on the trigger.
Training for the last 3 decades or longer is that you do not put your
finger into the trigger guard until you are actually going to shoot
the gun.

But then he must have had the safety off or it would not have fired.
You can pick a Glock up like you say, which is the only service type semi-auto
I know of that does not have a conventional safety, and it won't go
off because it takes a strong pull on the trigger. You have to squeeze
and develop some significant pressure, the weight of the gun isn't enough.

Also your claim that even FBI agents can't properly and safely handle
a pistol sure doesn't advance your pro-gun, anyone and everyone should
be allowed to have one, agenda.

Cite where I said "everyone should have one" or anything even close.
Don't go all "Dove" on me.

On 6/5/2018 at 10:03:01 AM, wrote:


Cite where I said "everyone should have one" or anything even close.
Don't go all "Dove" on me.


Amusing when you whine like a loose power steering belt.

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:02:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 06:54:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:46:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 20:45:43 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 11:21:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6/4/2018 10:46 PM, trader_4 wrote:



It's also another example of how allowing more people to carry, having
more guns around, brings unintended negative consequences. The gun
nuts think anybody who wants to should be allowed to carry into a club
like that. Here you had a trained FBI agent and look what happened.
Imagine 50 people in there in their 20s in there with guns and alcohol
and multiply it across the country.


I'd guess alcohol was involved. Maybe not flat out drunk, but some
degree of impairment to try that stunt.

Interesting question too, he must have been sober at some point,
so, is it normal procedure for FBI agents to stuff their weapon
into the back of their pants, which presumably would be before
he was drinking? Or do they just do that when they are drunk?
Also, what kind of gun was this? Typical semi-auto has a safety,
so the safety was off? A Glock doesn't have a traditional safety,
it has a double piece trigger, which means it can't fire unless
your finger is on the trigger and then it requires a pretty firm
pull. So, how did just reaching and picking it up discharge it?

People assume the FBI, and cops in general, are firearm experts who
understand safety but you don't need to read the news much to see that
is not true. The FBI agents are usually more "lawyer" and "accountant"
than "lawman".
My guess is he picked this gun up with his finger on the trigger.
Training for the last 3 decades or longer is that you do not put your
finger into the trigger guard until you are actually going to shoot
the gun.

But then he must have had the safety off or it would not have fired.
You can pick a Glock up like you say, which is the only service type semi-auto
I know of that does not have a conventional safety, and it won't go
off because it takes a strong pull on the trigger. You have to squeeze
and develop some significant pressure, the weight of the gun isn't enough.

Also your claim that even FBI agents can't properly and safely handle
a pistol sure doesn't advance your pro-gun, anyone and everyone should
be allowed to have one, agenda.

Cite where I said "everyone should have one" or anything even close.
Don't go all "Dove" on me.

Well maybe you can explain exactly what your gun carry position is.
From everything that you posted, seems like you would want anyone who
wants to carry to be able to do so, unless they are a felon or have
previously been confined to a mental hospital. And any time one of these
shootings happens in a public venue I don't see you objecting when your
fellow gun rights folks say the answer is that it wouldn't have happened
if it were not a gun free zone. For example, we went through that with
the Orlando nightclub shooting. The gun folks were howling that it
was targeted because it was gun free and the solution is to allow
anyone and everyone who comes to the club to bring their carry guns.
So, what is your position?

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 10:44:37 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:02:56 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 06:54:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:46:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 20:45:43 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 11:21:52 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 6/4/2018 10:46 PM, trader_4 wrote:



It's also another example of how allowing more people to carry, having
more guns around, brings unintended negative consequences. The gun
nuts think anybody who wants to should be allowed to carry into a club
like that. Here you had a trained FBI agent and look what happened.
Imagine 50 people in there in their 20s in there with guns and alcohol
and multiply it across the country.


I'd guess alcohol was involved. Maybe not flat out drunk, but some
degree of impairment to try that stunt.

Interesting question too, he must have been sober at some point,
so, is it normal procedure for FBI agents to stuff their weapon
into the back of their pants, which presumably would be before
he was drinking? Or do they just do that when they are drunk?
Also, what kind of gun was this? Typical semi-auto has a safety,
so the safety was off? A Glock doesn't have a traditional safety,
it has a double piece trigger, which means it can't fire unless
your finger is on the trigger and then it requires a pretty firm
pull. So, how did just reaching and picking it up discharge it?

People assume the FBI, and cops in general, are firearm experts who
understand safety but you don't need to read the news much to see that
is not true. The FBI agents are usually more "lawyer" and "accountant"
than "lawman".
My guess is he picked this gun up with his finger on the trigger.
Training for the last 3 decades or longer is that you do not put your
finger into the trigger guard until you are actually going to shoot
the gun.

But then he must have had the safety off or it would not have fired.
You can pick a Glock up like you say, which is the only service type semi-auto
I know of that does not have a conventional safety, and it won't go
off because it takes a strong pull on the trigger. You have to squeeze
and develop some significant pressure, the weight of the gun isn't enough.

Also your claim that even FBI agents can't properly and safely handle
a pistol sure doesn't advance your pro-gun, anyone and everyone should
be allowed to have one, agenda.

Cite where I said "everyone should have one" or anything even close.
Don't go all "Dove" on me.

Well maybe you can explain exactly what your gun carry position is.
From everything that you posted, seems like you would want anyone who
wants to carry to be able to do so, unless they are a felon or have
previously been confined to a mental hospital. And any time one of these
shootings happens in a public venue I don't see you objecting when your
fellow gun rights folks say the answer is that it wouldn't have happened
if it were not a gun free zone. For example, we went through that with
the Orlando nightclub shooting. The gun folks were howling that it
was targeted because it was gun free and the solution is to allow
anyone and everyone who comes to the club to bring their carry guns.
So, what is your position?

I think the education for CCW is not near good enough (it is all
"legal" in nature and not "tactical" enough) and I don't think drunks
should be carrying guns. Does that help?

The strange thing is the left likes to unload on Zimmermann and his
use of force was far more proper than plenty of police shootings. If
anything he waited too long to shoot Martin. Unfortunately that is
what the law requires in Florida and why the jury had to rule the way
they did. He did everything by the book, more so than most cops that
you hear about.
The only real mistake I saw was he lost sight of Martin and did not
take proper defensive precautions, allowing himself to be jumped from
behind.