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Old September 30th 17, 12:44 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Normal A/C on / off cycle durations?

replying to Wayne Boatwright, Jminter80 wrote:
Honestly there isnt one answer for every situation but your unit should run
enough to keep humidity at acceptable ranges. The person with the 800 sq ft
house is going to have issues with humidity due to size of house and 2.5 ton
is most likely oversized. Depending on insulation and windows your looking at
a 1.5 - 2 ton unit. Run cycles will change with the temperature outside as
well as humidity levels. Best thing to do is set indoor fan to circulating
mode if that option is available to keep air moving due to the size of the
house also you should be able to adjust speed if it sounds like a jet. There
are more options besides smaller system. The off cycle is going to be effected
by how well the house is insulated as well. If its not insulated well than
your house is going to heat up faster when the ac is off therefore ot will
cucle more often. Also I am not sure how much saving you anticipated on an
800sq ft house because ot doesnt use enough energy in the forst place to allow
for a noticeable change either way. If it were a 2500sq ft house with a $400
electric then you could expect a noticeable saving by updating to a newer and
more energy efficient system. Think of percentages when dealing with savings
also which means 10 percent of $100 is less than 10 percent of $400. Back to
run time....unit should be sized properly to have a long enough run time which
in my opinion is 5-10 minutes to properly remove humidity and off time should
be around 20-35 minutes. This varies because an old house will gain heat
faster than a new well insulated house. There is also room for error on sizing
due to all the variables and size of home which I always lean to the 1/2 ton
larger side for the abnormally high temps we experience for a week at a time
in southern Illinois. Never have had one issue with run times or humidity. My
last customer questioned it running every 30 minutes but he came from window
units and thought that was to much but you have to also factor in the comfort
throughout home which means a customer shouldnt feel swings or hot spots. It
should stay the same temperature all the time regardless if its running or not
unless you are directly below or above a vent. If it gets really cold when the
unit kicks on then warms up after it kicks off then your unit is oversized
plain and simple.

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Old May 14th 19, 10:29 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Normal A/C on / off cycle durations?

My situation even tho it would appear to be short cycling isn't quite accurate. My issue is run time. Typically as if now in AZ it's 90 pit and run time is 5 minutes and off time 17. So this truly by definition wouldn't be short cycling would it?. Anyways I've known for years system is indeed oversized and tried to compensate with my lux swing settings. Usually kept set at 2 with set at 77. It's just becoming uncofortable though as temps per display shows 78 when it comes on even though should be 77.50. Anyways today I'm trying something new, set temp for 76 with a 6 swing. Run time now is 17 minutes with off being around 15. Air feels much more comfortable yet worried now on $$ as times are tough. Last thing I want is a more $$. SRP bill shows $170 this month estimate thus far... That's with my normal 77 with 2 swing. Anyways I wanted to ask you guys how would you best handle this issue. Short cycling doesn't quite point to my issue I suppose to the letter. How old you guys handle this?.. not enough funds for new AC unit and not wanting crazy bulls either, but don't want to feel like I'm in a fireplace either. Thank you all for any ideas or suggestions on this. Bless.
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Old May 14th 19, 10:59 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Normal A/C on / off cycle durations?

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 5:29:51 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
My situation even tho it would appear to be short cycling isn't quite accurate. My issue is run time. Typically as if now in AZ it's 90 pit and run time is 5 minutes and off time 17. So this truly by definition wouldn't be short cycling would it?. Anyways I've known for years system is indeed oversized and tried to compensate with my lux swing settings. Usually kept set at 2 with set at 77. It's just becoming uncofortable though as temps per display shows 78 when it comes on even though should be 77.50. Anyways today I'm trying something new, set temp for 76 with a 6 swing. Run time now is 17 minutes with off being around 15. Air feels much more comfortable yet worried now on $$ as times are tough. Last thing I want is a more $$. SRP bill shows $170 this month estimate thus far... That's with my normal 77 with 2 swing. Anyways I wanted to ask you guys how would you best handle this issue. Short cycling doesn't quite point to my issue I suppose to the letter. How old you guys handle this?.. not enough funds for new AC unit and not wanting crazy bulls either, but don't want to feel like I'm in a fireplace either. Thank you all for any ideas or suggestions on this. Bless.


Why did you go from 77 with a 2 deg swing, to 76 with a 6 deg swing?
Why not pick something in between, like 3? I couldn't live with a 6 deg
swing. Also I don't understand if it was running 5 mins on, 17 off how
it could go to running 17 on and 15 off? That means it went from running
about 23% of the time to running 53% of the time? Something doesn't add
up, but if it's running that much, I see why you're concerned about
power usage. I'd settle for a compromise where it runs a little longer,
but still keeps the temp within an acceptable range. The disadvantage
to short cycling is it will use somewhat more energy and it's additional
wear on the compressor, fan etc with excessive starts, but I wouldn't
obsess over it either. It may not really affect the compressor life
that much, if at all. You don't say how old this system is, what the
operating costs are, etc. If it's old and inefficient, they payback
for a new right sized system might not be that long in AZ.
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Old May 15th 19, 02:51 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Normal A/C on / off cycle durations?

On 5/14/2019 5:29 PM, wrote:
My situation even tho it would appear to be short cycling isn't quite accurate. My issue is run time. Typically as if now in AZ it's 90 pit and run time is 5 minutes and off time 17. So this truly by definition wouldn't be short cycling would it?. Anyways I've known for years system is indeed oversized and tried to compensate with my lux swing settings. Usually kept set at 2 with set at 77. It's just becoming uncofortable though as temps per display shows 78 when it comes on even though should be 77.50. Anyways today I'm trying something new, set temp for 76 with a 6 swing. Run time now is 17 minutes with off being around 15. Air feels much more comfortable yet worried now on $$ as times are tough.


Something does not sound right. More run time will remove more moisture
and increase comfort. Of course as you already know an oversized unit
does not run as long to get the temperature down. More run time also
means higher cost.

The 6 degree swing will increase run time giving you at least temporary
comfort, but the off time would be increasingly getting uncomfortable.
It then has to work harder to get to the low setting. I think as long
as the AC is blowing dry air you feel comfortable.

As an aside, many years ago my father was the plant engineer at a
printing plant. Humidity control was important and on cool damp days it
would be very high. They would run the heat and AC at the same time to
maintain both temperature and low humidity. You can do that too, but
obviously it would be very expensive.

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Old May 15th 19, 08:05 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Normal A/C on / off cycle durations?

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 2:59:20 PM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 5:29:51 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
My situation even tho it would appear to be short cycling isn't quite accurate. My issue is run time. Typically as if now in AZ it's 90 pit and run time is 5 minutes and off time 17. So this truly by definition wouldn't be short cycling would it?. Anyways I've known for years system is indeed oversized and tried to compensate with my lux swing settings. Usually kept set at 2 with set at 77. It's just becoming uncofortable though as temps per display shows 78 when it comes on even though should be 77.50. Anyways today I'm trying something new, set temp for 76 with a 6 swing. Run time now is 17 minutes with off being around 15. Air feels much more comfortable yet worried now on $$ as times are tough. Last thing I want is a more $$. SRP bill shows $170 this month estimate thus far... That's with my normal 77 with 2 swing. Anyways I wanted to ask you guys how would you best handle this issue. Short cycling doesn't quite point to my issue I suppose to the letter. How old you guys handle this?.. not enough funds for new AC unit and not wanting crazy bulls either, but don't want to feel like I'm in a fireplace either. Thank you all for any ideas or suggestions on this. Bless.


Why did you go from 77 with a 2 deg swing, to 76 with a 6 deg swing?
Why not pick something in between, like 3? I couldn't live with a 6 deg
swing. Also I don't understand if it was running 5 mins on, 17 off how
it could go to running 17 on and 15 off? That means it went from running
about 23% of the time to running 53% of the time? Something doesn't add
up, but if it's running that much, I see why you're concerned about
power usage. I'd settle for a compromise where it runs a little longer,
but still keeps the temp within an acceptable range. The disadvantage
to short cycling is it will use somewhat more energy and it's additional
wear on the compressor, fan etc with excessive starts, but I wouldn't
obsess over it either. It may not really affect the compressor life
that much, if at all. You don't say how old this system is, what the
operating costs are, etc. If it's old and inefficient, they payback
for a new right sized system might not be that long in AZ.


Thanks. The 5 minutes run was when it was 77 with 2 swing. Seeing that isn't much run time, i changed it to 76 with 6 swing to increase runtime.. which it worked, ran 17-20 minutes. why 76, well we want to keep house at 77, so to simulate that yet allow more run, i did 76 with 6 swing, which should place it at 77.5. The off time tho is quite large. Just trying to find a happy medium where it will run longer to condition air better, yet not kill us in $$ or tax the machine to much. from all i read to properly work efficiently it needs to run 10 minutes or more... Our air always feels well not crisp in the house, hence why also i changed it to run longer and that has worked.. but the off time is rough....

The system is older... 9 years... house is 1100 square feet and the builder placed a 4 ton here.... yes 4 ton, and its way over sized of course.... hence my issues. have to make do as money is tight, so trying to be comfortable and yet save money and baby the ac. Sorry if my post is a bit confusing, i have been dealing with this for a long time to find that sweet spot and its driving us crazy...... thank you for your time.


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Old May 15th 19, 08:32 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Normal A/C on / off cycle durations?

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 12:06:01 PM UTC-7, Dan wrote:
On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 2:59:20 PM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 5:29:51 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
My situation even tho it would appear to be short cycling isn't quite accurate. My issue is run time. Typically as if now in AZ it's 90 pit and run time is 5 minutes and off time 17. So this truly by definition wouldn't be short cycling would it?. Anyways I've known for years system is indeed oversized and tried to compensate with my lux swing settings. Usually kept set at 2 with set at 77. It's just becoming uncofortable though as temps per display shows 78 when it comes on even though should be 77.50. Anyways today I'm trying something new, set temp for 76 with a 6 swing. Run time now is 17 minutes with off being around 15. Air feels much more comfortable yet worried now on $$ as times are tough. Last thing I want is a more $$. SRP bill shows $170 this month estimate thus far... That's with my normal 77 with 2 swing. Anyways I wanted to ask you guys how would you best handle this issue. Short cycling doesn't quite point to my issue I suppose to the letter. How old you guys handle this?.. not enough funds for new AC unit and not wanting crazy bulls either, but don't want to feel like I'm in a fireplace either. Thank you all for any ideas or suggestions on this. Bless.


Why did you go from 77 with a 2 deg swing, to 76 with a 6 deg swing?
Why not pick something in between, like 3? I couldn't live with a 6 deg
swing. Also I don't understand if it was running 5 mins on, 17 off how
it could go to running 17 on and 15 off? That means it went from running
about 23% of the time to running 53% of the time? Something doesn't add
up, but if it's running that much, I see why you're concerned about
power usage. I'd settle for a compromise where it runs a little longer,
but still keeps the temp within an acceptable range. The disadvantage
to short cycling is it will use somewhat more energy and it's additional
wear on the compressor, fan etc with excessive starts, but I wouldn't
obsess over it either. It may not really affect the compressor life
that much, if at all. You don't say how old this system is, what the
operating costs are, etc. If it's old and inefficient, they payback
for a new right sized system might not be that long in AZ.


Thanks. The 5 minutes run was when it was 77 with 2 swing. Seeing that isn't much run time, i changed it to 76 with 6 swing to increase runtime.. which it worked, ran 17-20 minutes. why 76, well we want to keep house at 77, so to simulate that yet allow more run, i did 76 with 6 swing, which should place it at 77.5. The off time tho is quite large. Just trying to find a happy medium where it will run longer to condition air better, yet not kill us in $$ or tax the machine to much. from all i read to properly work efficiently it needs to run 10 minutes or more... Our air always feels well not crisp in the house, hence why also i changed it to run longer and that has worked.. but the off time is rough....

The system is older... 9 years... house is 1100 square feet and the builder placed a 4 ton here.... yes 4 ton, and its way over sized of course..... hence my issues. have to make do as money is tight, so trying to be comfortable and yet save money and baby the ac. Sorry if my post is a bit confusing, i have been dealing with this for a long time to find that sweet spot and its driving us crazy...... thank you for your time.


For clarification.. With the lux the swing is

1 = .25
2 = .50
3 = .75
4 = 1

so when I did 6 swing at set 76 that would have been 77.5F
etc..
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Old May 15th 19, 09:59 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Normal A/C on / off cycle durations?

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 3:06:01 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 2:59:20 PM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 5:29:51 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
My situation even tho it would appear to be short cycling isn't quite accurate. My issue is run time. Typically as if now in AZ it's 90 pit and run time is 5 minutes and off time 17. So this truly by definition wouldn't be short cycling would it?. Anyways I've known for years system is indeed oversized and tried to compensate with my lux swing settings. Usually kept set at 2 with set at 77. It's just becoming uncofortable though as temps per display shows 78 when it comes on even though should be 77.50. Anyways today I'm trying something new, set temp for 76 with a 6 swing. Run time now is 17 minutes with off being around 15. Air feels much more comfortable yet worried now on $$ as times are tough. Last thing I want is a more $$. SRP bill shows $170 this month estimate thus far... That's with my normal 77 with 2 swing. Anyways I wanted to ask you guys how would you best handle this issue. Short cycling doesn't quite point to my issue I suppose to the letter. How old you guys handle this?.. not enough funds for new AC unit and not wanting crazy bulls either, but don't want to feel like I'm in a fireplace either. Thank you all for any ideas or suggestions on this. Bless.


Why did you go from 77 with a 2 deg swing, to 76 with a 6 deg swing?
Why not pick something in between, like 3? I couldn't live with a 6 deg
swing. Also I don't understand if it was running 5 mins on, 17 off how
it could go to running 17 on and 15 off? That means it went from running
about 23% of the time to running 53% of the time? Something doesn't add
up, but if it's running that much, I see why you're concerned about
power usage. I'd settle for a compromise where it runs a little longer,
but still keeps the temp within an acceptable range. The disadvantage
to short cycling is it will use somewhat more energy and it's additional
wear on the compressor, fan etc with excessive starts, but I wouldn't
obsess over it either. It may not really affect the compressor life
that much, if at all. You don't say how old this system is, what the
operating costs are, etc. If it's old and inefficient, they payback
for a new right sized system might not be that long in AZ.


Thanks. The 5 minutes run was when it was 77 with 2 swing. Seeing that isn't much run time, i changed it to 76 with 6 swing to increase runtime.. which it worked, ran 17-20 minutes. why 76, well we want to keep house at 77, so to simulate that yet allow more run, i did 76 with 6 swing, which should place it at 77.5.


I don't understand that math. Doesn't 6 swing mean it turns on when it's
3 over and off when it's 3 under? That would still average it at 76.



The off time tho is quite large. Just trying to find a happy medium where it will run longer to condition air better, yet not kill us in $$ or tax the machine to much.

There shouldn't be much difference in cost if it's still keeping the
house at the same average temperature.




from all i read to properly work efficiently it needs to run 10 minutes or more... Our air always feels well not crisp in the house, hence why also i changed it to run longer and that has worked.. but the off time is rough.....

The system is older... 9 years... house is 1100 square feet and the builder placed a 4 ton here.... yes 4 ton, and its way over sized of course.....


Yes, that's for sure.



hence my issues. have to make do as money is tight, so trying to be comfortable and yet save money and baby the ac. Sorry if my post is a bit confusing, i have been dealing with this for a long time to find that sweet spot and its driving us crazy...... thank you for your time.


It can't be that hard. There isn't much you can do except trade off
more temp fluctuation for run time.
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Old May 15th 19, 10:14 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Normal A/C on / off cycle durations?

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 1:59:32 PM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 3:06:01 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 2:59:20 PM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 5:29:51 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
My situation even tho it would appear to be short cycling isn't quite accurate. My issue is run time. Typically as if now in AZ it's 90 pit and run time is 5 minutes and off time 17. So this truly by definition wouldn't be short cycling would it?. Anyways I've known for years system is indeed oversized and tried to compensate with my lux swing settings. Usually kept set at 2 with set at 77. It's just becoming uncofortable though as temps per display shows 78 when it comes on even though should be 77.50. Anyways today I'm trying something new, set temp for 76 with a 6 swing. Run time now is 17 minutes with off being around 15. Air feels much more comfortable yet worried now on $$ as times are tough. Last thing I want is a more $$. SRP bill shows $170 this month estimate thus far... That's with my normal 77 with 2 swing. Anyways I wanted to ask you guys how would you best handle this issue. Short cycling doesn't quite point to my issue I suppose to the letter. How old you guys handle this?.. not enough funds for new AC unit and not wanting crazy bulls either, but don't want to feel like I'm in a fireplace either. Thank you all for any ideas or suggestions on this. Bless.

Why did you go from 77 with a 2 deg swing, to 76 with a 6 deg swing?
Why not pick something in between, like 3? I couldn't live with a 6 deg
swing. Also I don't understand if it was running 5 mins on, 17 off how
it could go to running 17 on and 15 off? That means it went from running
about 23% of the time to running 53% of the time? Something doesn't add
up, but if it's running that much, I see why you're concerned about
power usage. I'd settle for a compromise where it runs a little longer,
but still keeps the temp within an acceptable range. The disadvantage
to short cycling is it will use somewhat more energy and it's additional
wear on the compressor, fan etc with excessive starts, but I wouldn't
obsess over it either. It may not really affect the compressor life
that much, if at all. You don't say how old this system is, what the
operating costs are, etc. If it's old and inefficient, they payback
for a new right sized system might not be that long in AZ.


Thanks. The 5 minutes run was when it was 77 with 2 swing. Seeing that isn't much run time, i changed it to 76 with 6 swing to increase runtime.. which it worked, ran 17-20 minutes. why 76, well we want to keep house at 77, so to simulate that yet allow more run, i did 76 with 6 swing, which should place it at 77.5.


I don't understand that math. Doesn't 6 swing mean it turns on when it's
3 over and off when it's 3 under? That would still average it at 76.



The off time tho is quite large. Just trying to find a happy medium where it will run longer to condition air better, yet not kill us in $$ or tax the machine to much.

There shouldn't be much difference in cost if it's still keeping the
house at the same average temperature.




from all i read to properly work efficiently it needs to run 10 minutes or more... Our air always feels well not crisp in the house, hence why also i changed it to run longer and that has worked.. but the off time is rough.....

The system is older... 9 years... house is 1100 square feet and the builder placed a 4 ton here.... yes 4 ton, and its way over sized of course.....


Yes, that's for sure.



hence my issues. have to make do as money is tight, so trying to be comfortable and yet save money and baby the ac. Sorry if my post is a bit confusing, i have been dealing with this for a long time to find that sweet spot and its driving us crazy...... thank you for your time.


It can't be that hard. There isn't much you can do except trade off
more temp fluctuation for run time.


A swing of 4 is 1 degree .25 increments. so set at 76, a 6 swing would be 77.50 and after run off at 74.50. Lux lists swing as

Swing Setting

1 +\- .25 F

2 +\- .5 F

3 +\- .75 F

4 +\- 1.0 F

5 +\- 1.25F

6 +\- 1.5 F

7 +\- 1.75 F

8 +\- 2.0 F

9 +\- 2.25 F



Example: For tightest control, set swing setting on # 1 which is plus or minus .25 degrees F. If you set the setpoint at 70 F, the highest it will get to is 70.25 F, the lowest it will get to is 69.75

Example: On swing setting # 8, if setpoint is at 70 with swing of plus or minus 2 F. Highest it will go to is 72 and lowest it will go to is 68 F.

the only reason I went to 76 from 77 is a swing set from a set 77 gets to warm in here... as a swing from that set is taking me into 78+ territory (assuming i want longer run times) .. hence why i went to 76 and did swing from that point so we can get longer run times, yet remain under 78.

Not sure if this the right way to do it.... yet my circumstances here arent ideal. the stat is even in the hall way below the return vent... horrible placement causing issues there in its own right. I have been looking at those stats that allow me to have a sensor in another room, would love for it to be in the living room and not in the hall with the return vent.
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Old May 16th 19, 01:21 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Normal A/C on / off cycle durations?

On 5/15/2019 4:59 PM, trader_4 wrote:
The off time tho is quite large. Just trying to find a happy medium where it will run longer to condition air better, yet not kill us in $$ or tax the machine to much.

There shouldn't be much difference in cost if it's still keeping the
house at the same average temperature.



I run a separate dehumidifier to remove the humidity and let the central AC run as needed to regulate the temperature.

Run a ceiling fan and you can set the AC thermostat higher and still be comfortable.



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