I need a new lawn mower. Consumer Reports says Toro is a better option
than Troy-Bilt due to its reliability. My current Toro is on its last
legs and I've been patching it up over the years to keep it going. My
limit is $400.

I usually shop at Lowes because they give me a 10% discount for being
prior military but they don't carry Toro. Home Depot has this one I'm
considering. It is also front wheel drive.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-22-i...0339/205026227

http://tinyurl.com/y7bxao9z

I have never owned a rear wheel drive mower and don't see how they are
better than front wheel drive. What happens when you lift the front
and turn around to go the other way? Do the rear wheels stop driving?
I'm also leery of the no oil change claim.

Any thoughts?

On 09/23/2017 12:54 PM, badgolferman wrote:
I need a new lawn mower. Consumer Reports says Toro is a better option
than Troy-Bilt due to its reliability. My current Toro is on its last
legs and I've been patching it up over the years to keep it going. My
limit is $400.

I have a Troy-Bilt with 185cc Honda engine that is reliable. However,
it's not self-propelled so it's essentially an engine, a deck, a blade,
and 4 wheels.

It's a mulching blade and while you can use it with a bag I leave the
mulching plugs in place. That saves any bagging or raking and the lawn
seems to thrive on the mulched clippings. It also turns leaves into
confetti in the fall so they mulch in place too.

On 9/23/17 2:54 PM, badgolferman wrote:
I need a new lawn mower. Consumer Reports says Toro is a better option
than Troy-Bilt due to its reliability. My current Toro is on its last
legs and I've been patching it up over the years to keep it going. My
limit is $400.

I usually shop at Lowes because they give me a 10% discount for being
prior military but they don't carry Toro. Home Depot has this one I'm
considering. It is also front wheel drive.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-22-i...0339/205026227

http://tinyurl.com/y7bxao9z

I have never owned a rear wheel drive mower and don't see how they are
better than front wheel drive. What happens when you lift the front
and turn around to go the other way? Do the rear wheels stop driving?
I'm also leery of the no oil change claim.

Any thoughts?


That no-oil-change thing specifies "for the life of the engine". I'm
thinking two, maybe three seasons before seize-up city ;-)

I've never owned a bad Honda lawnmower and always got 9-10 years out of
them with nothing but routine maintenance. I live in the South and the
grass grows for about eight-nine months a year.

A while back, we converted from a lawn to ivy ground cover. I cleaned up
and serviced my ten year old Honda and sold it for a pretty decent price
on Craislist too!

--
A good plan violently executed right now is far better than a perfect
plan executed next week.
- Gen. George S. Patton

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:54:04 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"
wrote:

I need a new lawn mower. Consumer Reports says Toro is a better option
than Troy-Bilt due to its reliability. My current Toro is on its last
legs and I've been patching it up over the years to keep it going. My
limit is $400.

I usually shop at Lowes because they give me a 10% discount for being
prior military but they don't carry Toro. Home Depot has this one I'm
considering. It is also front wheel drive.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-22-i...0339/205026227

http://tinyurl.com/y7bxao9z

I have never owned a rear wheel drive mower and don't see how they are
better than front wheel drive. What happens when you lift the front
and turn around to go the other way? Do the rear wheels stop driving?
I'm also leery of the no oil change claim.

Any thoughts?

I just bought a Honda 3-in-1 RWD for $399. $423 with tax. Free delivery.
Home Depot. It has a paddle type control for the drive wheels.
That was about a month ago and my wife hasn't used it yet.
The grass stopped growing as soon as I bought it.

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:54:04 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"
wrote:

I need a new lawn mower. Consumer Reports says Toro is a better option
than Troy-Bilt due to its reliability. My current Toro is on its last
legs and I've been patching it up over the years to keep it going. My
limit is $400.

I usually shop at Lowes because they give me a 10% discount for being
prior military but they don't carry Toro. Home Depot has this one I'm
considering. It is also front wheel drive.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-22-i...0339/205026227

http://tinyurl.com/y7bxao9z

I have never owned a rear wheel drive mower and don't see how they are
better than front wheel drive. What happens when you lift the front
and turn around to go the other way? Do the rear wheels stop driving?
I'm also leery of the no oil change claim.

Any thoughts?
I just bought a Honda 3-in-1 RWD for $399. $423 with tax. Free delivery.
Home Depot. It has a paddle type control for the drive wheels.
That was about a month ago and my wife hasn't used it yet.
The grass stopped growing as soon as I bought it.

From what I've read, make sure you drain the fuel from it over the
winter. The carburetor's appear to be sensitive. I did a lot of reading
about mowers a few months ago, and the Honda rose to the top of my list.
I made a note to try to wait until they fix the sensitivity I referred
to above before buying one. Just drain the fuel during the off-season
and hopefully you'll "mow long and prosper!" : )

On 9/23/2017 5:05 PM, Bill wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:54:04 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

wrote:

[SNIP]

From what I've read, make sure you drain the fuel from it over the
winter.Â* The carburetor's appear to be sensitive. I did a lot of reading
about mowers a few months ago, and the Honda rose to the top of my list.
I made a note to try to wait until they fix the sensitivity I referred
to above before buying one.Â* Just drain the fuel during the off-season
and hopefully you'll "mow long and prosper!"Â*Â* : )

This is not confined to Honda, Toro, etc. It's general to ALL 4-cycle
small engines. It's the damn ethanol in the fuel, not to mention the
gum and varnish that tend to build up when fuel sits around.

1. If you can find it locally, purchase Ethanol-free gasoline. Around
here, I have to make a trip across the border and into Wisconsin to
purchase Ethanol-free PREMIUM gasoline. I don't need the octane but
that's the only way to get the Ethanol out of my small engine fuel.

2. If you intend to store fuel for more than a couple of months, always
mix Stabil or Sea Foam with the gas that you purchase. This prevents
the gum/varnish buildup which occurs.

3. Always shut off the fuel supply and run the engine dry before
storage for any extended storage. If you can't get ethanol-free gas,
this will mitigate the effect the alcohol has on the rubber parts in the
carburetor. Even if you use ethanol-free fuel AND fuel stabilizer (as
in #2), if the gas isn't sitting in the float bowl, etc, it can't build
up varnish there.

The more of these you're able to do, the less problems you'll have in
the long run.

On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 3:01:50 PM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:

I have a Troy-Bilt with 185cc Honda engine that is reliable. However,
it's not self-propelled so it's essentially an engine, a deck, a blade,
and 4 wheels.

It's a mulching blade and while you can use it with a bag I leave the
mulching plugs in place. That saves any bagging or raking and the lawn
seems to thrive on the mulched clippings. It also turns leaves into
confetti in the fall so they mulch in place too.


I've got a Toro 'personal pace' walk behind self-propelled lawn mower.
It does have the bag which I use from the back steps to a good size
square I mow around and to my clothes line. Saves all that grass
tracking in when I hang out sheets early mornings when there's still
plenty of dew on the grass.

When I had a maple tree in my front yard I'd use a rake to rake the
fallen leaves about a foot away from the trunk. Then I'd use the
mower with bagger attached to grind and suck up all those leaves.
It certainly made the front yard look like someone had zipped over
it with a giant Hoover vacuum cleaner!

My Toro was $400.

On 9/23/2017 6:05 PM, Bill wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:54:04 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

wrote:

I need a new lawn mower.Â* Consumer Reports says Toro is a better option
than Troy-Bilt due to its reliability.Â* My current Toro is on its last
legs and I've been patching it up over the years to keep it going.Â* My
limit is $400.

I usually shop at Lowes because they give me a 10% discount for being
prior military but they don't carry Toro.Â* Home Depot has this one I'm
considering.Â* It is also front wheel drive.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-22-i...0339/205026227


http://tinyurl.com/y7bxao9z

I have never owned a rear wheel drive mower and don't see how they are
better than front wheel drive.Â* What happens when you lift the front
and turn around to go the other way?Â* Do the rear wheels stop driving?
I'm also leery of the no oil change claim.

Any thoughts?
I just bought a Honda 3-in-1 RWD for $399.Â* $423 with tax.Â* Free
delivery.
Home Depot.Â* It has a paddle type control for the drive wheels.
That was about a month ago and my wife hasn't used it yet.
The grass stopped growing as soon as I bought it.

From what I've read, make sure you drain the fuel from it over the
winter.Â* The carburetor's appear to be sensitive. I did a lot of reading
about mowers a few months ago, and the Honda rose to the top of my list.
I made a note to try to wait until they fix the sensitivity I referred
to above before buying one.Â* Just drain the fuel during the off-season
and hopefully you'll "mow long and prosper!"Â*Â* : )

I have a Honda too and it has been trouble free. Only took it to shop
once as there is something that requires lube and I could not find how
to do it. Honda has a gas shut off valve so you can burn dry without
draining. Late in the season I drain some stabilized gas out of the
generator to use it up so I leave it gassed. Oil is simple to change as
you just pour it out the fill hole.

On 9/23/2017 2:54 PM, badgolferman wrote:
I need a new lawn mower. Consumer Reports says Toro is a better option
than Troy-Bilt due to its reliability. My current Toro is on its last
legs and I've been patching it up over the years to keep it going. My
limit is $400.


Honda.

I have one at home and I bought one for the shop. Mine is only 5 years,
but the one at the shop is 12 years old and gets a lot of hard use. I'd
not hesitate to buy it again.

On 9/23/17 2:54 PM, badgolferman wrote:
I have never owned a rear wheel drive mower and don't see how they are
better than front wheel drive. What happens when you lift the front
and turn around to go the other way? Do the rear wheels stop driving?

Several months back I was looking for a new lawnmower as well.

I ended up buying a Honda (HRR216VYA) from a local power
equipment place. Their price was only $30 higher than the
local Home Depot, they delivered it ready-to-go and even
took the old (broken) one off my hands.

Actually, I had bought the old one from them -24 years- ago
-- a basic TroyBuilt mulch mower (didn't even have
self-propulsion). I guess I got my money's worth out of it.

The reason I settled on that particular Honda model was
because it was one of the few modern mowers I'd seen with an
actual throttle control, and it also had a "blade-stop"
feature to let the user let go of the safety lever without
shutting down the engine. Works pretty well.

On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 2:54:08 PM UTC-4, badgolferman wrote:
I need a new lawn mower. Consumer Reports says Toro is a better option
than Troy-Bilt due to its reliability. My current Toro is on its last
legs and I've been patching it up over the years to keep it going. My
limit is $400.

I usually shop at Lowes because they give me a 10% discount for being
prior military but they don't carry Toro. Home Depot has this one I'm
considering. It is also front wheel drive.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-22-i...0339/205026227

http://tinyurl.com/y7bxao9z

I have never owned a rear wheel drive mower and don't see how they are
better than front wheel drive. What happens when you lift the front
and turn around to go the other way? Do the rear wheels stop driving?
I'm also leery of the no oil change claim.

Any thoughts?

The drive is controlled by a bar at the handle. When the bar is depressed,
it goes, when it's released it stops. It's an additional bar to the blade
brake bar. Some mowers have or at least had, several fixed speeds that
you can select one from at the controls. Others have variable speed drive.

The best mower in terms of how it cut the grass was a Honda Harmony 215
that I had. It used a double blade, one about the other about 1/2" apart.
It mulched the grass really fine, left the best, smoothest cut on the lawn
I have ever seen. The engine was also the quietest. That was the good
news. The bad news was that it had a 3 speed tranny that died after
maybe 7 years of use. And that was just cutting my lawn that's maybe
6,000 sq ft. I took it apart, it was the bearing on the pulley on
the tranny that had totally failed. Bad news was that a new tranny was
$135 at the time. And taking that thing apart was unbelievable. I do
a lot of work on my own, but there were more screws, pins, washers,
snap rings, bushings and God knows what that had to come off to get
the tranny off. So bad that I filled up two egg cartons trying to keep
the parts in order. After considering the various options, I found a
brand new Craftsman that someone was selling for $160.

The Craftsman is much louder and doesn't cut as nice. But it has more
power, can go through taller grass when needed, where the Honda would
have trouble. The Honda was 3 fixed speeds, the Craftsman is variable
speed, the more you depress the bar, the faster it goes. AFter several
years, the Craftsman stopped moving too. It took less than 5 mins to
remove a small cover and see the problem. With their variable speed,
they use a belt that slips. The end of the tension spring where it
hooks had broken off. I used a cable tie to resecure it. That was
5 years ago, it's still working. Honda's version of variable speed
used a hydrostatic tranny, God knows how complicated that is or what
goes wrong with it. The other issue is that the Honda listed for $600,
I got it for considerably less, it was a Fall closeout at HD. The
Craftsman listed for less than half.

So, many choices and options.

trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 2:54:08 PM UTC-4, badgolferman wrote:
I need a new lawn mower. Consumer Reports says Toro is a better option
than Troy-Bilt due to its reliability. My current Toro is on its last
legs and I've been patching it up over the years to keep it going. My
limit is $400.

I usually shop at Lowes because they give me a 10% discount for being
prior military but they don't carry Toro. Home Depot has this one I'm
considering. It is also front wheel drive.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-22-i...0339/205026227

http://tinyurl.com/y7bxao9z

I have never owned a rear wheel drive mower and don't see how they are
better than front wheel drive. What happens when you lift the front
and turn around to go the other way? Do the rear wheels stop driving?
I'm also leery of the no oil change claim.

Any thoughts?
The drive is controlled by a bar at the handle. When the bar is depressed,
it goes, when it's released it stops. It's an additional bar to the blade
brake bar. Some mowers have or at least had, several fixed speeds that
you can select one from at the controls. Others have variable speed drive.

The best mower in terms of how it cut the grass was a Honda Harmony 215
that I had. It used a double blade, one about the other about 1/2" apart.
It mulched the grass really fine, left the best, smoothest cut on the lawn
I have ever seen. The engine was also the quietest. That was the good
news. The bad news was that it had a 3 speed tranny that died after
maybe 7 years of use. And that was just cutting my lawn that's maybe
6,000 sq ft. I took it apart, it was the bearing on the pulley on
the tranny that had totally failed. Bad news was that a new tranny was
$135 at the time. And taking that thing apart was unbelievable. I do
a lot of work on my own, but there were more screws, pins, washers,
snap rings, bushings and God knows what that had to come off to get
the tranny off. So bad that I filled up two egg cartons trying to keep
the parts in order.

I found myself in that position too, with my Troy-Built mower. If not
for the parts diagrams I found online, I would have *never* got it back
together properly! : )




After considering the various options, I found a
brand new Craftsman that someone was selling for $160.

The Craftsman is much louder and doesn't cut as nice. But it has more
power, can go through taller grass when needed, where the Honda would
have trouble. The Honda was 3 fixed speeds, the Craftsman is variable
speed, the more you depress the bar, the faster it goes. AFter several
years, the Craftsman stopped moving too. It took less than 5 mins to
remove a small cover and see the problem. With their variable speed,
they use a belt that slips. The end of the tension spring where it
hooks had broken off. I used a cable tie to resecure it. That was
5 years ago, it's still working. Honda's version of variable speed
used a hydrostatic tranny, God knows how complicated that is or what
goes wrong with it. The other issue is that the Honda listed for $600,
I got it for considerably less, it was a Fall closeout at HD. The
Craftsman listed for less than half.

So, many choices and options.

On 9/23/2017 11:29 PM, J.Albert wrote:


I ended up buying a Honda (HRR216VYA) from a local power equipment
place. Their price was only $30 higher than the local Home Depot, they
delivered it ready-to-go and even took the old (broken) one off my hands.



Many people run to the big box stores thinking they will save money.
Often, the best value is the local guy that is very close in price but
has superior service.

On 9/24/2017 8:21 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/23/2017 11:29 PM, J.Albert wrote:


I ended up buying a Honda (HRR216VYA) from a local power equipment
place. Their price was only $30 higher than the local Home Depot, they
delivered it ready-to-go and even took the old (broken) one off my hands.



Many people run to the big box stores thinking they will save money.
Often, the best value is the local guy that is very close in price but
has superior service.

That is what I did. I could not even find a clerk at HD to show me the
mowers. Cost a little more but even in cost because I traded in an old
Lawn Boy. At the local shop the mower had oil and gas and had been
tested and they loaded it in the back of my SUV for me.

On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:12:50 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:54:04 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"
wrote:

I need a new lawn mower. Consumer Reports says Toro is a better option
than Troy-Bilt due to its reliability. My current Toro is on its last
legs and I've been patching it up over the years to keep it going. My
limit is $400.

I usually shop at Lowes because they give me a 10% discount for being
prior military but they don't carry Toro. Home Depot has this one I'm
considering. It is also front wheel drive.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-22-i...0339/205026227

http://tinyurl.com/y7bxao9z

I have never owned a rear wheel drive mower and don't see how they are
better than front wheel drive. What happens when you lift the front
and turn around to go the other way? Do the rear wheels stop driving?
I'm also leery of the no oil change claim.

Any thoughts?

My choice in walk-behind mowers is the Snapper commercial line. Most
of the grass cutting we do is with a Snapper zero turn riding mower,
but in areas that is not appropriate, we use a Snapper commercial
self-propelled mower with a Honda engine.

The mowers are built like tanks, I have had the walk-behind for 20 -
25 years and never an issue with it, but we do conduct proper
preventative maintenance. For years we have used synthetic oil and
the highest octane, lowest ethanol content fuel in the equipment with
small 4-cycle engines.

Here is the snapper site:

https://www.snapper.com/na/en_us/pro...lk-mowers.html

The rear wheel drive is very sweet, there is a differential in the
drive train that makes turning the unit completely effortless.



From this web page :

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/some-lawn-mower...hers-1.2848607

"For bigger jobs, a gas-powered self-propelled mower will do some of
the work for you. Among the least reliable are Husqvarna and Snapper.
Honda is a brand you can depend on."

Treat all online reviews - with caution !
I strongly doubt that any commercial mowers were part of this article.
John T.

From this web page :
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/some-lawn-mower...hers-1.2848607
"For bigger jobs, a gas-powered self-propelled mower will do some of
the work for you. Among the least reliable are Husqvarna and Snapper.
Honda is a brand you can depend on."
Treat all online reviews - with caution !
I strongly doubt that any commercial mowers were part of this article.
John T.


I have a PDF of the May 2016 Consumer Reports article on Lawn Mowers.
If anyone wants a copy of it, I will upload it to a binary group or a
file sharing site.
Many years ago I started buying commercial grade yard equipment
whenever possible. I have found most of the consumer grade stuff is
just crap. Commercial grade costs more up front, but pays for itself
over time.
As I said, my commercial Snapper self-propelled walk behind mower with
Honda engine has been going strong for 20-25 years. We pressure wash
it once a month, change the oil and spark plug every three years,
tighten bolts, sharpen the blade and lubricate cables and other
logical mechanism. Where I live, we use the mowers year round and I
could not be happier with the ROI.


Don't forget the air filter !
I tried to web-search Snapper commercial mowers - to no avail.
Would one cost today about double or triple ?
- the amount of an average brand-name homeowner unit ?
John T.

On 23-Sep-17 1:54 PM, badgolferman wrote:
....

I'm also leery of the no oil change claim.

Any thoughts?

Yeah, that'll never work for longevity. I searched on the B&S site for
anything at all technical on "how this works" and there's absolutely
zero, zilch, nada.

One user posted his failed just after the two-year warranty period had
expired so he tore it down and the top cylinder was badly scored and all
kinds of sludge and carbon buildup as one would expect after two years
of use with no change and no filter. He pointed out he also use the
touted B&S-branded oil (even though we all know B&S doesn't do anything
but brand a specific vendor oil just like all the rest; it's nothing
special).

The B&S response was "well, you maybe were supposed to have used breakin
oil and changed it out first" but didn't offer any redress other than
take it to a service center and they'd look at it.

There is nothing at all on the site about warranty related to
lubrication-caused failures; they'll be able to get out of anything by
claiming you didn't do _something_ you were supposed to, but after two
years they're home free anyway.

I'd never expect to not change oil on a typical short cycle for any
similar small engine if I had any hope of it lasting any time at all.
It's marketing BS and that's all just counting on enough people only use
such engines low enough hours the odds are they'll last despite the lack
of maintenance and they're off the hook after two years irregardless how
irresponsible the ads are.

imo, $0.02, ymmv, etc., etc., etc., ...

--

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:54:04 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"
wrote:

I need a new lawn mower. Consumer Reports says Toro is a better option
than Troy-Bilt due to its reliability. My current Toro is on its last
legs and I've been patching it up over the years to keep it going. My
limit is $400.

I usually shop at Lowes because they give me a 10% discount for being
prior military but they don't carry Toro. Home Depot has this one I'm
considering. It is also front wheel drive.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-22-i...0339/205026227

http://tinyurl.com/y7bxao9z

I have never owned a rear wheel drive mower and don't see how they are
better than front wheel drive. What happens when you lift the front
and turn around to go the other way? Do the rear wheels stop driving?
I'm also leery of the no oil change claim.

Any thoughts?
On my rear wheel drive "bigwheel" either I release the drive or turn
fast enough that the outer wheel "over-runs" the inner.

AS far a "no oil changes" it's pretty simple. You just change mowers
when the oil wears out - It's another example of North America's
"throw away" society. "the paint's getting a bit dull - time for a new
one".

Stormin' Norman wrote:

Here is the snapper site:

https://www.snapper.com/na/en_us/pro...lk-mowers.html

The rear wheel drive is very sweet, there is a differential in the
drive train that makes turning the unit completely effortless.



Do you mean turning it around at the end of a pass. If so, please
explain how that could work. To my mind, the "fulcrum"(?) is at the
points of contact of the 2 rear wheels. Do the wheels move as you are
turning it around?

Bill

wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 18:54:04 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"
wrote:

I'm also leery of the no oil change claim.



AS far a "no oil changes" it's pretty simple. You just change mowers
when the oil wears out - It's another example of North America's
"throw away" society. "the paint's getting a bit dull - time for a new
one".

I thought of that too. I've already decided that if I ever end up with
a mower with that "feature", I would change the oil anyway. And if I
can't do that, then I'm not buying it. And, you have to wonder about
the quality of the rest of the parts on a mower with that feature...

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 4:16:31 AM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
Stormin' Norman wrote:

Here is the snapper site:

https://www.snapper.com/na/en_us/pro...lk-mowers.html

The rear wheel drive is very sweet, there is a differential in the
drive train that makes turning the unit completely effortless.



Do you mean turning it around at the end of a pass. If so, please
explain how that could work. To my mind, the "fulcrum"(?) is at the
points of contact of the 2 rear wheels. Do the wheels move as you are
turning it around?

Bill

Whether the mower is tilted up or not has no bearing on what the wheels are doing.

On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 04:15:37 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:

Here is the snapper site:

https://www.snapper.com/na/en_us/pro...lk-mowers.html

The rear wheel drive is very sweet, there is a differential in the
drive train that makes turning the unit completely effortless.



Do you mean turning it around at the end of a pass. If so, please
explain how that could work. To my mind, the "fulcrum"(?) is at the
points of contact of the 2 rear wheels. Do the wheels move as you are
turning it around?

Bill
Of course.

Hi there!
I'm looking to get a new lawn mower. Been using an old push one, but it's starting to fall apart. So I've figured to get a decent one as soon as possible.

My yard isn't that big and takes less around 45 minutes to cut using the 21 inch push mower. I'm currently learning the issue reading reviews https://bestoutdooritems.com/best-gas-lawn-mowers and some helpful garden forums like http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1140954 . Maybe, you find this info helpful too!