Can I install a dishwasher in a kitchen where I do NOT have a garbage
disposal, to connect the waste hose ??

Is a disposal "required" for pproper dishwaher performance?

On 7/9/2017 2:56 PM, wrote:
Can I install a dishwasher in a kitchen where I do NOT have a garbage
disposal, to connect the waste hose ??

Is a disposal "required" for pproper dishwaher performance?


Disposal not required. You have to replace a section of the drain pipe
with one that has a tee to accept the drain hose from the dishwasher.
Any handyman can do it if you cannot. Your appliance dealer may be able
to have his installer do it too.

On 7/9/2017 2:11 PM, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Sun 09 Jul 2017 11:56:01a, told us...

Can I install a dishwasher in a kitchen where I do NOT have a garbage
disposal, to connect the waste hose ??

Is a disposal "required" for pproper dishwaher performance?

No, you do not need to install a disposal when you have a dishwasher.
If you have a double sink, one of the drain pipes has to have a side
inlet for the dishwsher drain hose to connect to. If you only have a
single sink, then that same type of drain pipe would be used so that
you can connect the dishwaser drain hose.

In one of our earlier homes we had no disposal and the drain hose from
the dishwasher was connected directly the side of the sink drain pipe.

Yup , you can buy the adapter tailpiece (plumber talk) at most
well-stocked hardware stores . Got one in my kitchen right now , out
here in the woods that organic waste goes to the critters - wild or
domesticated instead of into a disposal .

--

Snag

On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:56:01 -0400, wrote:

Can I install a dishwasher in a kitchen where I do NOT have a garbage
disposal, to connect the waste hose ??

Is a disposal "required" for pproper dishwaher performance?

No, and IMHO you are better off without a disposal, I think they are a
huge pain in the ass and have little value.

You will simply install a new sink drain tail piece, with an
additional inlet for the hose coming from the dishwasher air gap /
drain.

I am not sure if plumbing code in all states require an air gap as
part of the dishwasher installation. For more information, see:

https://www.thespruce.com/dishwasher-venting-2718654

On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 21:27:33 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

On Sun 09 Jul 2017 01:14:31p, Stormin' Norman told us...

On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:56:01 -0400, wrote:

Can I install a dishwasher in a kitchen where I do NOT have a
garbage disposal, to connect the waste hose ??

Is a disposal "required" for pproper dishwaher performance?

No, and IMHO you are better off without a disposal, I think they
are a huge pain in the ass and have little value.

You will simply install a new sink drain tail piece, with an
additional inlet for the hose coming from the dishwasher air gap /
drain.

I am not sure if plumbing code in all states require an air gap as
part of the dishwasher installation. For more information, see:

https://www.thespruce.com/dishwasher-venting-2718654


Air gaps are not required in AZ unless in certain commercial buildings
and high rise apartment buildings.

That is interesting Wayne, thanks. If it were me and if I had an
extra punch-out in the sink, I think I would install one regardless.

On 7/9/2017 5:49 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

I am not sure if plumbing code in all states require an air gap as
part of the dishwasher installation. For more information, see:

https://www.thespruce.com/dishwasher-venting-2718654


Air gaps are not required in AZ unless in certain commercial buildings
and high rise apartment buildings.

That is interesting Wayne, thanks. If it were me and if I had an
extra punch-out in the sink, I think I would install one regardless.


I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no problems
without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by a DW that back
siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get into the DW, but the
purpose of the air gap is to protect the domestic water supply.

On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:32:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/9/2017 5:49 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

I am not sure if plumbing code in all states require an air gap as
part of the dishwasher installation. For more information, see:

https://www.thespruce.com/dishwasher-venting-2718654


Air gaps are not required in AZ unless in certain commercial buildings
and high rise apartment buildings.

That is interesting Wayne, thanks. If it were me and if I had an
extra punch-out in the sink, I think I would install one regardless.


I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no problems
without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by a DW that back
siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get into the DW, but the
purpose of the air gap is to protect the domestic water supply.

The air gap with a dishwasher prevents drain water from backing up
into the dishwasher and contaminating the dishes. Doesn't happen very
often, but if it does happen it can make people quite ill.

Not sure how a dishwasher air gap would protect the potable water
supply, but maybe.

On 7/9/17 7:41 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:32:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/9/2017 5:49 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

I am not sure if plumbing code in all states require an air gap as
part of the dishwasher installation. For more information, see:

https://www.thespruce.com/dishwasher-venting-2718654


Air gaps are not required in AZ unless in certain commercial buildings
and high rise apartment buildings.

That is interesting Wayne, thanks. If it were me and if I had an
extra punch-out in the sink, I think I would install one regardless.


I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no problems
without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by a DW that back
siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get into the DW, but the
purpose of the air gap is to protect the domestic water supply.

The air gap with a dishwasher prevents drain water from backing up
into the dishwasher and contaminating the dishes. Doesn't happen very
often, but if it does happen it can make people quite ill.

Not sure how a dishwasher air gap would protect the potable water
supply, but maybe.

I guess it's possible if the water supply pressure failed at the
same time.

On 7/9/2017 8:41 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:32:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/9/2017 5:49 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

I am not sure if plumbing code in all states require an air gap as
part of the dishwasher installation. For more information, see:

https://www.thespruce.com/dishwasher-venting-2718654


Air gaps are not required in AZ unless in certain commercial buildings
and high rise apartment buildings.

That is interesting Wayne, thanks. If it were me and if I had an
extra punch-out in the sink, I think I would install one regardless.


I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no problems
without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by a DW that back
siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get into the DW, but the
purpose of the air gap is to protect the domestic water supply.

The air gap with a dishwasher prevents drain water from backing up
into the dishwasher and contaminating the dishes. Doesn't happen very
often, but if it does happen it can make people quite ill.

Not sure how a dishwasher air gap would protect the potable water
supply, but maybe.


That is the purpose of it. Id pressure drops while the machine has
water in it, there is the possibility water can siphon back to the water
supply. Same reason backflow preventers are required for sprinkler
systems and some towns want them on every residence. Overkill, IMO. I
can see it in industrial settings. Our boiler feedwater systems have to
have them but we're talking 125 psi pressure if the power went out to
the city system.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:32:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 7/9/2017 5:49 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

I am not sure if plumbing code in all states require an air gap as
part of the dishwasher installation. For more information, see:

https://www.thespruce.com/dishwasher-venting-2718654


Air gaps are not required in AZ unless in certain commercial buildings
and high rise apartment buildings.

That is interesting Wayne, thanks. If it were me and if I had an
extra punch-out in the sink, I think I would install one regardless.


I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no problems
without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by a DW that back
siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get into the DW, but the
purpose of the air gap is to protect the domestic water supply.

I don't keep track of other people's problems, but I had a chicken bone,
the one next to the drumstick, stick in my airgap and iirc it kept the
DW from draining. I thought it was the pump, or the hose was clogged,
and it took a while to find the thin little bone.

On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:31:52 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 7/9/17 7:41 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:32:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no problems
without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by a DW that back
siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get into the DW, but the
purpose of the air gap is to protect the domestic water supply.

The air gap with a dishwasher prevents drain water from backing up
into the dishwasher and contaminating the dishes. Doesn't happen very
often, but if it does happen it can make people quite ill.

Not sure how a dishwasher air gap would protect the potable water
supply, but maybe.

I guess it's possible if the water supply pressure failed at the
same time.

Not likely with the design of those diaphragm valves, even if the
water supply was in the bottom of the dishwasher. The water pressure
is what opens the valve. No pressure and the valve slams shut. In real
life the sump of the dishwasher is air gapped from the supply line.

On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 22:03:23 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:31:52 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 7/9/17 7:41 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:32:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no problems
without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by a DW that back
siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get into the DW, but the
purpose of the air gap is to protect the domestic water supply.

The air gap with a dishwasher prevents drain water from backing up
into the dishwasher and contaminating the dishes. Doesn't happen very
often, but if it does happen it can make people quite ill.

Not sure how a dishwasher air gap would protect the potable water
supply, but maybe.

I guess it's possible if the water supply pressure failed at the
same time.

Not likely with the design of those diaphragm valves, even if the
water supply was in the bottom of the dishwasher. The water pressure
is what opens the valve. No pressure and the valve slams shut. In real
life the sump of the dishwasher is air gapped from the supply line.

That was my understanding. Maybe Ed can explain the logic behind his
reasoning.

On 7/9/2017 10:53 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 22:03:23 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:31:52 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 7/9/17 7:41 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:32:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no problems
without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by a DW that back
siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get into the DW, but the
purpose of the air gap is to protect the domestic water supply.

The air gap with a dishwasher prevents drain water from backing up
into the dishwasher and contaminating the dishes. Doesn't happen very
often, but if it does happen it can make people quite ill.

Not sure how a dishwasher air gap would protect the potable water
supply, but maybe.

I guess it's possible if the water supply pressure failed at the
same time.

Not likely with the design of those diaphragm valves, even if the
water supply was in the bottom of the dishwasher. The water pressure
is what opens the valve. No pressure and the valve slams shut. In real
life the sump of the dishwasher is air gapped from the supply line.

That was my understanding. Maybe Ed can explain the logic behind his
reasoning.


Not my reasoing. It is code in some places and their reasoning is if
the water system loses pressure the water in a running DW will not
siphon back into the water lines. Nor will it suck water from your drain
lines. It is the government saving us from ourselves.

I think it is way overkill and not needed.

On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 8:47:56 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/9/2017 10:53 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 22:03:23 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:31:52 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 7/9/17 7:41 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:32:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no problems
without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by a DW that back
siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get into the DW, but the
purpose of the air gap is to protect the domestic water supply.

The air gap with a dishwasher prevents drain water from backing up
into the dishwasher and contaminating the dishes. Doesn't happen very
often, but if it does happen it can make people quite ill.

Not sure how a dishwasher air gap would protect the potable water
supply, but maybe.

I guess it's possible if the water supply pressure failed at the
same time.

Not likely with the design of those diaphragm valves, even if the
water supply was in the bottom of the dishwasher. The water pressure
is what opens the valve. No pressure and the valve slams shut. In real
life the sump of the dishwasher is air gapped from the supply line.

That was my understanding. Maybe Ed can explain the logic behind his
reasoning.


Not my reasoing. It is code in some places and their reasoning is if
the water system loses pressure the water in a running DW will not
siphon back into the water lines. Nor will it suck water from your drain
lines. It is the government saving us from ourselves.

I think it is way overkill and not needed.

I agree it's overkill, it's not required here in homes in NJ either.
If you look at the dishwasher install instructions, they say a high
loop is sufficient unless code requires an air gap. The high loop
works for me. It's almost as much protection as an air gap, without
extra, useless holes in the sink and more work installing.

However, I think Stormin is right, the purpose is to prevent waste
water from going into the dishwasher, where there may be dishes that
were already cleaned, not to keep waste water out of the fresh
water system. I can see how the former can happen, but not the
latter.

On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 9:54:09 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/9/2017 8:41 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:32:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/9/2017 5:49 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

I am not sure if plumbing code in all states require an air gap as
part of the dishwasher installation. For more information, see:

https://www.thespruce.com/dishwasher-venting-2718654


Air gaps are not required in AZ unless in certain commercial buildings
and high rise apartment buildings.

That is interesting Wayne, thanks. If it were me and if I had an
extra punch-out in the sink, I think I would install one regardless.


I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no problems
without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by a DW that back
siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get into the DW, but the
purpose of the air gap is to protect the domestic water supply.

The air gap with a dishwasher prevents drain water from backing up
into the dishwasher and contaminating the dishes. Doesn't happen very
often, but if it does happen it can make people quite ill.

Not sure how a dishwasher air gap would protect the potable water
supply, but maybe.


That is the purpose of it. Id pressure drops while the machine has
water in it, there is the possibility water can siphon back to the water
supply.

But then dirty dishwasher water complete with detergent can get back
into the fresh water supply that way anytime. It seems if that's the
concern, then an additional check-valve or similar in the DW is the solution.
Which is an interesting question, I would think they probably do have
something in there to prevent that, but IDK.

On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 9:54:13 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:32:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 7/9/2017 5:49 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

I am not sure if plumbing code in all states require an air gap as
part of the dishwasher installation. For more information, see:

https://www.thespruce.com/dishwasher-venting-2718654


Air gaps are not required in AZ unless in certain commercial buildings
and high rise apartment buildings.

That is interesting Wayne, thanks. If it were me and if I had an
extra punch-out in the sink, I think I would install one regardless.


I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no problems
without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by a DW that back
siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get into the DW, but the
purpose of the air gap is to protect the domestic water supply.

I don't keep track of other people's problems, but I had a chicken bone,
the one next to the drumstick, stick in my airgap

Did you call 911? Have someone perform the heimlich maneuver?



and iirc it kept the
DW from draining. I thought it was the pump, or the hose was clogged,
and it took a while to find the thin little bone.

On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:56:01 -0400, wrote:

Can I install a dishwasher in a kitchen where I do NOT have a garbage
disposal, to connect the waste hose ??


Yes. With or without a sink mounted air gap.

Is a disposal "required" for pproper dishwaher performance?

No. If done, a new disposal has to have a plastic plug knocked out
before connecting the dishwasher.

Sample of single sink without a sink mounted air gap.

http://www.fixya.com/uploads/Images/1144177.jpg

On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 01:37:44 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

On Sun 09 Jul 2017 05:32:51p, Ed Pawlowski told us...

On 7/9/2017 5:49 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

I am not sure if plumbing code in all states require an air gap
as part of the dishwasher installation. For more information,
see:

https://www.thespruce.com/dishwasher-venting-2718654


Air gaps are not required in AZ unless in certain commercial
buildings and high rise apartment buildings.

That is interesting Wayne, thanks. If it were me and if I had an
extra punch-out in the sink, I think I would install one
regardless.


I wouldn't, just a loop. Had dishwashers for 50 years and no
problems without it. Anyone know of a problem actually caused by
a DW that back siphoned into the water system? Yes, it can get
into the DW, but the purpose of the air gap is to protect the
domestic water supply.


Never had a problem with a loop, and only lived in one place that had
an air gap.

I'd be guessing, but single kitchen sinks have just a loop mounted
high under the cabinet. Double sinks have a sink mounted air gap.

I forgot to remove the "plug" in a new GD install. The dishwasher
flushed out the sink mounted air gap. (knock the plug out )