On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:

I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the
mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed
to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way
to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later.

If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex
inside the existing pipe.
--
Mr.E

On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:

I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the
mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed
to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way
to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later.

If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex
inside the existing pipe.


Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put
a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut
out the leak and solder a new pipe in place.

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:32:44 AM UTC-4, Mr.E wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:

I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the
mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed
to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way
to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later.

If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex
inside the existing pipe.
--
Mr.E

This is the first time I ever heard of orangeburg pipe being used for
pressurized water delivery. If he has some pics of how they applied
fittings to it to use with a typical water system, faucets, etc, I'm
sure others here would be interested in seeing it too.

As to passing a PEX through it, I think you have an excellent idea
there. Wonder what size this pipe is? I've never seen O pipe smaller
than 4", which was used for sewer and similar. For a faucet supply
it really sounds bizarre.

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote:
On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:

I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the
mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed
to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way
to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later.

If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex
inside the existing pipe.


Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put
a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut
out the leak and solder a new pipe in place.

How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it
must be even more interesting.

On 05/10/2017 10:43 AM, trader_4 wrote:
....

This is the first time I ever heard of orangeburg pipe being used for
pressurized water delivery. If he has some pics of how they applied
fittings to it to use with a typical water system, faucets, etc, I'm
sure others here would be interested in seeing it too.

As to passing a PEX through it, I think you have an excellent idea
there. Wonder what size this pipe is? I've never seen O pipe smaller
than 4", which was used for sewer and similar. For a faucet supply
it really sounds bizarre.

There are vague references to it as supply, but I've never been able to
confirm ever really was...although guess somebody could do anything
once, particularly if weren't subject to Code/inspection at the time or
a homeowner/DIYer did something on their own.

I've no idea what would use for pressure fittings, Fernco?

I do know that industrial use during wartime, was used for sal****er
disposal in oil production that was pressure, but that was far cry from
residential potable water.

Smallest I've seen mentioned was 2" and only applications I know of were
waste/drain, agreed.

Wonder if it really, truly is...altho guess it'd be hard to misdiagnose
if dug it up...pictures/more info would be nice.

--

replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote:
It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. My Dad owned an
underground construction company here for 30 years and said almost all the
services they ran back then for water was this pipe and used brass compression
fittings, but since new homes have changed, we can't find any fittings. Which
seems strange because there's thousands upon thousands of homes in the Phoenix
area that have this pipe installed. The leak is under a 24' wide slab of
driveway and I have no interest in repairing so I found the pipe before it
runs under that concrete and just want to cap it off. Hopefully this picture
helps.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9b

On Wed, 10 May 2017 19:14:01 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:

replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote:
It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. My Dad owned an
underground construction company here for 30 years and said almost all the
services they ran back then for water was this pipe and used brass compression
fittings, but since new homes have changed, we can't find any fittings. Which
seems strange because there's thousands upon thousands of homes in the Phoenix
area that have this pipe installed. The leak is under a 24' wide slab of
driveway and I have no interest in repairing so I found the pipe before it
runs under that concrete and just want to cap it off. Hopefully this picture
helps.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9b


Orangeburg "SP" is a polyethylene pipe. It is not the Orangeburg pipe
of the 19th through mid 20th century which was made from wood pulp and
pitch pressed together.

If the concrete is only 24" wide, you could probably use a pressure
washer to free the pipe and replace it with a new pipe of different
material.

On 05/10/2017 2:31 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 19:14:01 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:
replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote:
....

... The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway...
....[snip]...
If the concrete is only 24" wide, ...

Better put your bifocals on and look again...

--

On Wed, 10 May 2017 14:34:55 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/10/2017 2:31 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 19:14:01 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:
replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote:
...

... The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway...
...[snip]...
If the concrete is only 24" wide, ...

Better put your bifocals on and look again...

Oh? What did I miss?

replying to dpb, Joekauffman wrote:
It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. My Dad owned an
underground construction company here for 30 years and said almost all the
services they ran back then for water was this pipe and used brass compression
fittings, but since new homes have changed, we can't find any fittings. Which
seems strange because there's thousands upon thousands of homes in the Phoenix
area that have this pipe installed. The leak is under a 24' wide slab of
driveway and I have no interest in repairing so I found the pipe before it
runs under that concrete and just want to cap it off. Hopefully this picture
helps.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9c

On 05/10/2017 2:14 PM, Joe Kauffman wrote:
replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote:
It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. My Dad owned an
underground construction company here for 30 years and said almost all the
services they ran back then for water was this pipe and used brass
compression
fittings, but since new homes have changed, we can't find any fittings.
Which
seems strange because there's thousands upon thousands of homes in the
Phoenix
area that have this pipe installed. The leak is under a 24' wide slab of
driveway and I have no interest in repairing so I found the pipe before it
runs under that concrete and just want to cap it off. Hopefully this
picture
helps.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9b


h. Water Service Pipe: Polyethylene.
1. Orangeburg SP premium polyethylene, PE 3406, class 160, SDR-9
(CTS-OD), rate one hundred sixty (160) psi, with a cell classification
of 345434C as defined in ASTM 3350, manufactured by Orangeburg
Industries, Inc.

Found ASTM 3350 which gives table of dimension systems for given
pressure ratings find

Standard Dimension Ratio Standard Pressure
SDR (In the Case SIDR (In the Case Rating (psig)
of Pipes Made to of Pipes Made to HDS = 800psi
Standard ODs) Standard IDs)
11.0 9.0 160

which tells what the diameter ratios were for 160 psi pipe (culled the
table down simply for the one of interest) and, one presumes, the CTS=OD
spec means they used the OD spec's. Hence, a current manufacturer's
polyethylene fittings for OD-sized pipe _should_ work.

Hadn't know this part on history--Orangeburg Mfg was bought out by
Flintkote some time back in '50s (found ad for the CP pipe archived from
a Life magazine in '59 where were listed as a Flintkote company).
Flintkote was primarily an asbestos roofing and siding, etc.,
manufacturer from 1900 on until after WW II began buying up other
building product companies such as OB. But, they fell prey to the
asbestos hysteria and filed permanent bankruptcy in 2012...all there is
no is the case lawyers fighting over the trust funds left from the
disposal of assets.

--


--

On Wed, 10 May 2017 19:49:29 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Wed, 10 May 2017 14:34:55 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/10/2017 2:31 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 19:14:01 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:
replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote:
...

... The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway...
...[snip]...
If the concrete is only 24" wide, ...

Better put your bifocals on and look again...

Oh? What did I miss?

Drivveways are not 24 inches wide in Arizona. Sheesh.

On Wed, 10 May 2017 19:49:29 +0000
Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Wed, 10 May 2017 14:34:55 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/10/2017 2:31 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 19:14:01 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:
replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote:
...

... The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway...
...[snip]...
If the concrete is only 24" wide, ...

Better put your bifocals on and look again...

Oh? What did I miss?

LOL Numb nuts' Norman

On 05/10/2017 2:49 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 14:34:55 -0500, wrote:

On 05/10/2017 2:31 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 19:14:01 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:
replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote:
...

... The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway...
...[snip]...
If the concrete is only 24" wide, ...

Better put your bifocals on and look again...

Oh? What did I miss?

' vis a vis "

--

On 05/10/2017 3:14 PM, Joekauffman wrote:
replying to dpb, Joekauffman wrote:
It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. ...

...Hopefully this picture helps.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9c

Indeed, commented more fully above; thought I'd just mention the
"orangeburg" word brings out recollections of essentially nothing but
the old bituminized drain/waste pipe.

Hence the initial responses, that Orangeburg made other product is
bascially known, just tends to not be referred to as such; the term
having become so widely associated with the other, original, product.

--

On Wed, 10 May 2017 15:39:28 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/10/2017 2:49 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 14:34:55 -0500, wrote:

On 05/10/2017 2:31 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 19:14:01 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:
replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote:
...

... The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway...
...[snip]...
If the concrete is only 24" wide, ...

Better put your bifocals on and look again...

Oh? What did I miss?

' vis a vis "

Excellent explanation......... ;-)

On 5/10/2017 11:52 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote:
On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:

I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the
mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed
to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way
to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later.

If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex
inside the existing pipe.


Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put
a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut
out the leak and solder a new pipe in place.

How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it
must be even more interesting.


Correct. I completely ignored the part he said Orangeburg. Forget what I
said.

replying to dpb, Joekauffman wrote:
Thanks guys, sorry not sure why it double posted. In a bucket full of old
fittings I found a 90 compression for this pipe. Used, but I'm going to see
if it will compression & seal then just cap the end. Hopefully the rubber
sleeve is in good enough shape still.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9d

On 5/10/2017 11:52 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote:
On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:

I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the
mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed
to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way
to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later.

If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex
inside the existing pipe.


Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put
a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut
out the leak and solder a new pipe in place.

How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it
must be even more interesting.


Orangeburg in name only. It is a plastic pipe that can us compression
or sharkbite fittings.

On 5/10/2017 8:10 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/10/2017 11:52 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote:
On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:

I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off
the
mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but
I've managed
to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out
the best way
to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later.

If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex
inside the existing pipe.


Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put
a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut
out the leak and solder a new pipe in place.

How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it
must be even more interesting.


Orangeburg in name only. It is a plastic pipe that can us compression
or sharkbite fittings.


Oragneburg pipe is fiber pipe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

On 5/10/2017 8:22 PM, Meanie wrote:

How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it
must be even more interesting.


Orangeburg in name only. It is a plastic pipe that can us compression
or sharkbite fittings.


Oragneburg pipe is fiber pipe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe


Not their only product
http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/golfd...66apr51-60.pdf
flexible polyethylene and PVC also.

ORANGEBURG'S pipe package meets all your irrigation needs
Complete line includes FLINTITE® asbestos-cement pipe for the larger mains,
PVC plastic pipe for intermediate mains or complete systems, SP® flexible
polyethylene pipe for tees and greens, and ORANGEBURG® bituminous
fiber pipe for underdrains. Performance proved in the most demanding
service. And they are economical€”save big money on your total irrigation
pipe installation costs. For details, write Orangeburg Manufacturing
Co., Div. of
The Flintkote Company, 30 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, N.Y. 10020. Dept. G2

trader_4
Wed, 10
May 2017 15:52:47 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote:
On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:

I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe
teed off the mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under
the driveway but I've managed to dig it up and exposed about 3
feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cap the line,
I'll worry about supply to the faucet later.

If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8
pex inside the existing pipe.


Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak
and put a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also
enough room to cut out the leak and solder a new pipe in place.

How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering
it must be even more interesting.

Now, that's something i'd like to see myself. I wonder how badly
the heat for soldering would alter the diameter of the pipe end?

Oh...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene

Thermal properties

The usefulness of polyethylene is limited by its melting point of 80
°C (176 °F) (HDPE, types of low crystalline softens earlier). For
common commercial grades of medium- and high-density polyethylene the
melting point is typically in the range 120 to 180 °C (248 to 356 °
F). The melting point for average, commercial, low-density
polyethylene is typically 105 to 115 °C (221 to 239 °F). These
temperatures vary strongly with the type of polyethylene.

Doesn't seem like it would hold up well at all to soldering with a
propane torch...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane_torch

Oxygen-fed torches use the high pressure of the stored oxygen to push
the oxygen into a common tube with the fuel. An air-only torch will
burn at around 1,995 °C (3,623 °F), less if heat loss to the
surroundings is taken into account. Oxygen-fed torches can be much
hotter at up to 2,820 °C (5,110 °F), depending on the fuel-oxygen
ratio. These are the theoretical maximum temperatures, in reality
they will always be less due to incomplete combustion, heat loss etc.

Yea, it's probably not going to like the soldering process.


--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 4:18:09 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 05/10/2017 2:14 PM, Joe Kauffman wrote:
replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote:
It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. My Dad owned an
underground construction company here for 30 years and said almost all the
services they ran back then for water was this pipe and used brass
compression
fittings, but since new homes have changed, we can't find any fittings.
Which
seems strange because there's thousands upon thousands of homes in the
Phoenix
area that have this pipe installed. The leak is under a 24' wide slab of
driveway and I have no interest in repairing so I found the pipe before it
runs under that concrete and just want to cap it off. Hopefully this
picture
helps.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9b


h. Water Service Pipe: Polyethylene.
1. Orangeburg SP premium polyethylene, PE 3406, class 160, SDR-9
(CTS-OD), rate one hundred sixty (160) psi, with a cell classification
of 345434C as defined in ASTM 3350, manufactured by Orangeburg
Industries, Inc.

Found ASTM 3350 which gives table of dimension systems for given
pressure ratings find

Standard Dimension Ratio Standard Pressure
SDR (In the Case SIDR (In the Case Rating (psig)
of Pipes Made to of Pipes Made to HDS = 800psi
Standard ODs) Standard IDs)
11.0 9.0 160

which tells what the diameter ratios were for 160 psi pipe (culled the
table down simply for the one of interest) and, one presumes, the CTS=OD
spec means they used the OD spec's. Hence, a current manufacturer's
polyethylene fittings for OD-sized pipe _should_ work.

Hadn't know this part on history--Orangeburg Mfg was bought out by
Flintkote some time back in '50s (found ad for the CP pipe archived from
a Life magazine in '59 where were listed as a Flintkote company).
Flintkote was primarily an asbestos roofing and siding, etc.,
manufacturer from 1900 on until after WW II began buying up other
building product companies such as OB. But, they fell prey to the
asbestos hysteria and filed permanent bankruptcy in 2012...all there is
no is the case lawyers fighting over the trust funds left from the
disposal of assets.

--


--

+1 Bingo

As others have said, that "Orangeburg" is the name of the company
that made it, but it's obviously not orangeburg pipe and it's
poly, which is widely used for pressurized water delivery.

To cap it off, he can just go get a plastic fitting that is barbed
on one end, threaded on the other and use it with a hose clamp and
plug or cap. Or repair it with a barbed type coupling.

On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 6:24:38 AM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
trader_4
Wed, 10
May 2017 15:52:47 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote:
On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote:

I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe
teed off the mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under
the driveway but I've managed to dig it up and exposed about 3
feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cap the line,
I'll worry about supply to the faucet later.

If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8
pex inside the existing pipe.


Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak
and put a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also
enough room to cut out the leak and solder a new pipe in place.

How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering
it must be even more interesting.

Now, that's something i'd like to see myself. I wonder how badly
the heat for soldering would alter the diameter of the pipe end?

Oh...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene

Thermal properties

The usefulness of polyethylene is limited by its melting point of 80
°C (176 °F) (HDPE, types of low crystalline softens earlier). For
common commercial grades of medium- and high-density polyethylene the
melting point is typically in the range 120 to 180 °C (248 to 356 °
F). The melting point for average, commercial, low-density
polyethylene is typically 105 to 115 °C (221 to 239 °F). These
temperatures vary strongly with the type of polyethylene.

Doesn't seem like it would hold up well at all to soldering with a
propane torch...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane_torch

Oxygen-fed torches use the high pressure of the stored oxygen to push
the oxygen into a common tube with the fuel. An air-only torch will
burn at around 1,995 °C (3,623 °F), less if heat loss to the
surroundings is taken into account. Oxygen-fed torches can be much
hotter at up to 2,820 °C (5,110 °F), depending on the fuel-oxygen
ratio. These are the theoretical maximum temperatures, in reality
they will always be less due to incomplete combustion, heat loss etc.

Yea, it's probably not going to like the soldering process.


Plus what he has is not orangeburg pipe as the term is commonly used.
It's poly pipe that happens to be made by a company called orangeburg,
probably the same company that made what is called orangeburg pipe.

On Thu, 11 May 2017 07:52:19 -0700 (PDT)
trader_4 wrote:

It's poly pipe that happens to be made by a company called orangeburg,
probably the same company that made what is called orangeburg pipe.



Do try to stay current.