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#1
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote: I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later. If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex inside the existing pipe. -- Mr.E |
#2
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:32:44 AM UTC-4, Mr.E wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman m wrote: I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later. If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex inside the existing pipe. -- Mr.E This is the first time I ever heard of orangeburg pipe being used for pressurized water delivery. If he has some pics of how they applied fittings to it to use with a typical water system, faucets, etc, I'm sure others here would be interested in seeing it too. As to passing a PEX through it, I think you have an excellent idea there. Wonder what size this pipe is? I've never seen O pipe smaller than 4", which was used for sewer and similar. For a faucet supply it really sounds bizarre. |
#3
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On 05/10/2017 10:43 AM, trader_4 wrote:
.... This is the first time I ever heard of orangeburg pipe being used for pressurized water delivery. If he has some pics of how they applied fittings to it to use with a typical water system, faucets, etc, I'm sure others here would be interested in seeing it too. As to passing a PEX through it, I think you have an excellent idea there. Wonder what size this pipe is? I've never seen O pipe smaller than 4", which was used for sewer and similar. For a faucet supply it really sounds bizarre. There are vague references to it as supply, but I've never been able to confirm ever really was...although guess somebody could do anything once, particularly if weren't subject to Code/inspection at the time or a homeowner/DIYer did something on their own. I've no idea what would use for pressure fittings, Fernco? I do know that industrial use during wartime, was used for sal****er disposal in oil production that was pressure, but that was far cry from residential potable water. Smallest I've seen mentioned was 2" and only applications I know of were waste/drain, agreed. Wonder if it really, truly is...altho guess it'd be hard to misdiagnose if dug it up...pictures/more info would be nice. -- |
#4
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote:
It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. My Dad owned an underground construction company here for 30 years and said almost all the services they ran back then for water was this pipe and used brass compression fittings, but since new homes have changed, we can't find any fittings. Which seems strange because there's thousands upon thousands of homes in the Phoenix area that have this pipe installed. The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway and I have no interest in repairing so I found the pipe before it runs under that concrete and just want to cap it off. Hopefully this picture helps. https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9b |
#5
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On Wed, 10 May 2017 19:14:01 GMT, Joe Kauffman
m wrote: replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote: It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. My Dad owned an underground construction company here for 30 years and said almost all the services they ran back then for water was this pipe and used brass compression fittings, but since new homes have changed, we can't find any fittings. Which seems strange because there's thousands upon thousands of homes in the Phoenix area that have this pipe installed. The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway and I have no interest in repairing so I found the pipe before it runs under that concrete and just want to cap it off. Hopefully this picture helps. https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9b Orangeburg "SP" is a polyethylene pipe. It is not the Orangeburg pipe of the 19th through mid 20th century which was made from wood pulp and pitch pressed together. If the concrete is only 24" wide, you could probably use a pressure washer to free the pipe and replace it with a new pipe of different material. |
#6
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On 05/10/2017 2:31 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 19:14:01 GMT, Joe Kauffman m wrote: replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote: .... ... The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway... ....[snip]... If the concrete is only 24" wide, ... Better put your bifocals on and look again... -- |
#7
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On 05/10/2017 2:14 PM, Joe Kauffman wrote:
replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote: It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. My Dad owned an underground construction company here for 30 years and said almost all the services they ran back then for water was this pipe and used brass compression fittings, but since new homes have changed, we can't find any fittings. Which seems strange because there's thousands upon thousands of homes in the Phoenix area that have this pipe installed. The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway and I have no interest in repairing so I found the pipe before it runs under that concrete and just want to cap it off. Hopefully this picture helps. https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9b h. Water Service Pipe: Polyethylene. 1. Orangeburg SP premium polyethylene, PE 3406, class 160, SDR-9 (CTS-OD), rate one hundred sixty (160) psi, with a cell classification of 345434C as defined in ASTM 3350, manufactured by Orangeburg Industries, Inc. Found ASTM 3350 which gives table of dimension systems for given pressure ratings find Standard Dimension Ratio Standard Pressure SDR (In the Case SIDR (In the Case Rating (psig) of Pipes Made to of Pipes Made to HDS = 800psi Standard ODs) Standard IDs) 11.0 9.0 160 which tells what the diameter ratios were for 160 psi pipe (culled the table down simply for the one of interest) and, one presumes, the CTS=OD spec means they used the OD spec's. Hence, a current manufacturer's polyethylene fittings for OD-sized pipe _should_ work. Hadn't know this part on history--Orangeburg Mfg was bought out by Flintkote some time back in '50s (found ad for the CP pipe archived from a Life magazine in '59 where were listed as a Flintkote company). Flintkote was primarily an asbestos roofing and siding, etc., manufacturer from 1900 on until after WW II began buying up other building product companies such as OB. But, they fell prey to the asbestos hysteria and filed permanent bankruptcy in 2012...all there is no is the case lawyers fighting over the trust funds left from the disposal of assets. -- -- |
#8
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 4:18:09 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 05/10/2017 2:14 PM, Joe Kauffman wrote: replying to dpb, Joe Kauffman wrote: It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. My Dad owned an underground construction company here for 30 years and said almost all the services they ran back then for water was this pipe and used brass compression fittings, but since new homes have changed, we can't find any fittings. Which seems strange because there's thousands upon thousands of homes in the Phoenix area that have this pipe installed. The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway and I have no interest in repairing so I found the pipe before it runs under that concrete and just want to cap it off. Hopefully this picture helps. https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9b h. Water Service Pipe: Polyethylene. 1. Orangeburg SP premium polyethylene, PE 3406, class 160, SDR-9 (CTS-OD), rate one hundred sixty (160) psi, with a cell classification of 345434C as defined in ASTM 3350, manufactured by Orangeburg Industries, Inc. Found ASTM 3350 which gives table of dimension systems for given pressure ratings find Standard Dimension Ratio Standard Pressure SDR (In the Case SIDR (In the Case Rating (psig) of Pipes Made to of Pipes Made to HDS = 800psi Standard ODs) Standard IDs) 11.0 9.0 160 which tells what the diameter ratios were for 160 psi pipe (culled the table down simply for the one of interest) and, one presumes, the CTS=OD spec means they used the OD spec's. Hence, a current manufacturer's polyethylene fittings for OD-sized pipe _should_ work. Hadn't know this part on history--Orangeburg Mfg was bought out by Flintkote some time back in '50s (found ad for the CP pipe archived from a Life magazine in '59 where were listed as a Flintkote company). Flintkote was primarily an asbestos roofing and siding, etc., manufacturer from 1900 on until after WW II began buying up other building product companies such as OB. But, they fell prey to the asbestos hysteria and filed permanent bankruptcy in 2012...all there is no is the case lawyers fighting over the trust funds left from the disposal of assets. -- -- +1 Bingo As others have said, that "Orangeburg" is the name of the company that made it, but it's obviously not orangeburg pipe and it's poly, which is widely used for pressurized water delivery. To cap it off, he can just go get a plastic fitting that is barbed on one end, threaded on the other and use it with a hose clamp and plug or cap. Or repair it with a barbed type coupling. |
#9
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
replying to dpb, Joekauffman wrote:
It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. My Dad owned an underground construction company here for 30 years and said almost all the services they ran back then for water was this pipe and used brass compression fittings, but since new homes have changed, we can't find any fittings. Which seems strange because there's thousands upon thousands of homes in the Phoenix area that have this pipe installed. The leak is under a 24' wide slab of driveway and I have no interest in repairing so I found the pipe before it runs under that concrete and just want to cap it off. Hopefully this picture helps. https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9c |
#10
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On 05/10/2017 3:14 PM, Joekauffman wrote:
replying to dpb, Joekauffman wrote: It's 3/4" pipe, says Orangeburg SP 160psi Water on it. ... ...Hopefully this picture helps. https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9c Indeed, commented more fully above; thought I'd just mention the "orangeburg" word brings out recollections of essentially nothing but the old bituminized drain/waste pipe. Hence the initial responses, that Orangeburg made other product is bascially known, just tends to not be referred to as such; the term having become so widely associated with the other, original, product. -- |
#11
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
replying to dpb, Joekauffman wrote:
Thanks guys, sorry not sure why it double posted. In a bucket full of old fittings I found a 90 compression for this pipe. Used, but I'm going to see if it will compression & seal then just cap the end. Hopefully the rubber sleeve is in good enough shape still. https://www.homeownershub.com/img/9d |
#12
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman m wrote: I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later. If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex inside the existing pipe. Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut out the leak and solder a new pipe in place. |
#13
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote:
On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote: On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman m wrote: I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later. If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex inside the existing pipe. Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut out the leak and solder a new pipe in place. How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it must be even more interesting. |
#14
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On 5/10/2017 11:52 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote: On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote: On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman m wrote: I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later. If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex inside the existing pipe. Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut out the leak and solder a new pipe in place. How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it must be even more interesting. Correct. I completely ignored the part he said Orangeburg. Forget what I said. |
#15
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On 5/10/2017 11:52 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote: On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote: On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman m wrote: I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later. If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex inside the existing pipe. Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut out the leak and solder a new pipe in place. How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it must be even more interesting. Orangeburg in name only. It is a plastic pipe that can us compression or sharkbite fittings. |
#16
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On 5/10/2017 8:10 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/10/2017 11:52 AM, trader_4 wrote: On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote: On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote: On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman m wrote: I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later. If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex inside the existing pipe. Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut out the leak and solder a new pipe in place. How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it must be even more interesting. Orangeburg in name only. It is a plastic pipe that can us compression or sharkbite fittings. Oragneburg pipe is fiber pipe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe |
#17
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On 5/10/2017 8:22 PM, Meanie wrote:
How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it must be even more interesting. Orangeburg in name only. It is a plastic pipe that can us compression or sharkbite fittings. Oragneburg pipe is fiber pipe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe Not their only product http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/golfd...66apr51-60.pdf flexible polyethylene and PVC also. ORANGEBURG'S pipe package meets all your irrigation needs Complete line includes FLINTITE® asbestos-cement pipe for the larger mains, PVC plastic pipe for intermediate mains or complete systems, SP® flexible polyethylene pipe for tees and greens, and ORANGEBURG® bituminous fiber pipe for underdrains. Performance proved in the most demanding service. And they are economical€”save big money on your total irrigation pipe installation costs. For details, write Orangeburg Manufacturing Co., Div. of The Flintkote Company, 30 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, N.Y. 10020. Dept. G2 |
#18
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
trader_4
Wed, 10 May 2017 15:52:47 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote: On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote: On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman m wrote: I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later. If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex inside the existing pipe. Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut out the leak and solder a new pipe in place. How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it must be even more interesting. Now, that's something i'd like to see myself. I wonder how badly the heat for soldering would alter the diameter of the pipe end? Oh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene Thermal properties The usefulness of polyethylene is limited by its melting point of 80 °C (176 °F) (HDPE, types of low crystalline softens earlier). For common commercial grades of medium- and high-density polyethylene the melting point is typically in the range 120 to 180 °C (248 to 356 ° F). The melting point for average, commercial, low-density polyethylene is typically 105 to 115 °C (221 to 239 °F). These temperatures vary strongly with the type of polyethylene. Doesn't seem like it would hold up well at all to soldering with a propane torch... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane_torch Oxygen-fed torches use the high pressure of the stored oxygen to push the oxygen into a common tube with the fuel. An air-only torch will burn at around 1,995 °C (3,623 °F), less if heat loss to the surroundings is taken into account. Oxygen-fed torches can be much hotter at up to 2,820 °C (5,110 °F), depending on the fuel-oxygen ratio. These are the theoretical maximum temperatures, in reality they will always be less due to incomplete combustion, heat loss etc. Yea, it's probably not going to like the soldering process. -- I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly. |
#19
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 6:24:38 AM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
trader_4 Wed, 10 May 2017 15:52:47 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 11:44:35 AM UTC-4, Meanie wrote: On 5/10/2017 11:32 AM, Mr.E wrote: On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:14:02 GMT, Joe Kauffman m wrote: I own a 40 year old home in AZ that has an Orangeburg pipe teed off the mainline to a faucet. The pipe is leaking under the driveway but I've managed to dig it up and exposed about 3 feet. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cap the line, I'll worry about supply to the faucet later. If it only feeds a faucet, you may be able to slide 1/2 or 3/8 pex inside the existing pipe. Agreed. If it's a single line, you can cut each side of the leak and put a pex connection on it. Otherwise, three feet is also enough room to cut out the leak and solder a new pipe in place. How does one put a PEX connection on orangeburg pipe? Soldering it must be even more interesting. Now, that's something i'd like to see myself. I wonder how badly the heat for soldering would alter the diameter of the pipe end? Oh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene Thermal properties The usefulness of polyethylene is limited by its melting point of 80 °C (176 °F) (HDPE, types of low crystalline softens earlier). For common commercial grades of medium- and high-density polyethylene the melting point is typically in the range 120 to 180 °C (248 to 356 ° F). The melting point for average, commercial, low-density polyethylene is typically 105 to 115 °C (221 to 239 °F). These temperatures vary strongly with the type of polyethylene. Doesn't seem like it would hold up well at all to soldering with a propane torch... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane_torch Oxygen-fed torches use the high pressure of the stored oxygen to push the oxygen into a common tube with the fuel. An air-only torch will burn at around 1,995 °C (3,623 °F), less if heat loss to the surroundings is taken into account. Oxygen-fed torches can be much hotter at up to 2,820 °C (5,110 °F), depending on the fuel-oxygen ratio. These are the theoretical maximum temperatures, in reality they will always be less due to incomplete combustion, heat loss etc. Yea, it's probably not going to like the soldering process. Plus what he has is not orangeburg pipe as the term is commonly used. It's poly pipe that happens to be made by a company called orangeburg, probably the same company that made what is called orangeburg pipe. |
#20
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Orangeburg pressurized water pipe
On Thu, 11 May 2017 07:52:19 -0700 (PDT)
trader_4 wrote: It's poly pipe that happens to be made by a company called orangeburg, probably the same company that made what is called orangeburg pipe. Do try to stay current. |
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