When I try to fill my bathtub, water drips out of the shower head,
even when the diverter is pushed down. I'm wondering why water would
be able to go up to the showerhead if pressure is being released by
letting water through the spout. I'm curious to know if there is a way
to fix it, or if I'll need to by a new diverter.

Chris

Chris Wacalwik wrote:
When I try to fill my bathtub, water drips out of the shower head,
even when the diverter is pushed down. I'm wondering why water would
be able to go up to the showerhead if pressure is being released by
letting water through the spout. I'm curious to know if there is a way
to fix it, or if I'll need to by a new diverter.

Chris

I would guess you have very good water pressure. The diverter does not
shut off the shower, that is always on, but it opens the tub outlet.
Normally the difference in height keeps water from coming out the shower.
With enough water pressure, or restricted flow to the tub, water will come
out the shower.

Try using your hand to block the flow into the tub to see what I mean.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Chris Wacalwik wrote:
When I try to fill my bathtub, water drips out of the shower head,
even when the diverter is pushed down. I'm wondering why water would
be able to go up to the showerhead if pressure is being released by
letting water through the spout. I'm curious to know if there is a way
to fix it, or if I'll need to by a new diverter.

Chris

I would guess you have very good water pressure. The diverter does not
shut off the shower, that is always on, but it opens the tub outlet.
Normally the difference in height keeps water from coming out the shower.
With enough water pressure, or restricted flow to the tub, water will come
out the shower.

Try using your hand to block the flow into the tub to see what I mean.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Chris Wacalwik wrote:

I would guess you have very good water pressure. The diverter
does not shut off the shower, that is always on, but it opens the tub
outlet. Normally the difference in height keeps water from coming out
the shower. With enough water pressure, or restricted flow to the
tub, water will come out the shower.

Try using your hand to block the flow into the tub to see what I
mean.

After returning from a bike ride, and took a shower, I checked that out.
Well things change in 40 years. The diverter on my current shower does seem
to block off the shower when the tub is selected. Sorry for the bad advice.


--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Chris Wacalwik wrote:

I would guess you have very good water pressure. The diverter
does not shut off the shower, that is always on, but it opens the tub
outlet. Normally the difference in height keeps water from coming out
the shower. With enough water pressure, or restricted flow to the
tub, water will come out the shower.

Try using your hand to block the flow into the tub to see what I
mean.

After returning from a bike ride, and took a shower, I checked that out.
Well things change in 40 years. The diverter on my current shower does seem
to block off the shower when the tub is selected. Sorry for the bad advice.


--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

Chris Wacalwik wrote:

I would guess you have very good water pressure. The diverter
does not shut off the shower, that is always on, but it opens the tub
outlet. Normally the difference in height keeps water from coming out
the shower. With enough water pressure, or restricted flow to the
tub, water will come out the shower.

Try using your hand to block the flow into the tub to see what I
mean.


After returning from a bike ride, and took a shower, I checked that out.
Well things change in 40 years. The diverter on my current shower does seem
to block off the shower when the tub is selected. Sorry for the bad advice.


Sounds like your diverter is on the wall, and not on the spout.

The OP's description of "pushing down" on the valve made it sound to me
like it's one of the "in the spout" ones, and I haven't yet heard of a
spout with a valve which will block off the feed to the shower head.
Anything's possible I suppose, though why would any manufacturer bother
to make ones like that?

Since the OP didn't say, "This just started happening", chances are his
water pressure increased since the original installation, or it's been
that way ever since it was built because the installer saw it and just
said, "WTF".

One "fix" for his situation is to run the shower feed piping in an
inverted "U" up past the shower head and then back down to it, assuming
space exists overhead to do that. But that's likely to be a Gawd awfull
expensive proposition in an existing situation, unless the other side of
the wall behind the shower and the space overhead aren't finished. Even
then it's a fair bit of work.

I'd suggest, in the following order:

1. Learn to love it the way it is....It's not bothering anything but his
sense of perfection.

2. Try a new spout. Preferably a different make. It might just do the trick.

3. Put a throttling plug valve just behind the shower head and suffer
with opening and closing it when needed. They make 'em with a chrome finish.

3. Measure the water pressure and if it's well above what he needs,
install a pressure reducing valve after the water meter, and crank the
pressure down 'till the dribble stops.

Comments?

Jeff

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

Chris Wacalwik wrote:

I would guess you have very good water pressure. The diverter
does not shut off the shower, that is always on, but it opens the tub
outlet. Normally the difference in height keeps water from coming out
the shower. With enough water pressure, or restricted flow to the
tub, water will come out the shower.

Try using your hand to block the flow into the tub to see what I
mean.


After returning from a bike ride, and took a shower, I checked that out.
Well things change in 40 years. The diverter on my current shower does seem
to block off the shower when the tub is selected. Sorry for the bad advice.


Sounds like your diverter is on the wall, and not on the spout.

The OP's description of "pushing down" on the valve made it sound to me
like it's one of the "in the spout" ones, and I haven't yet heard of a
spout with a valve which will block off the feed to the shower head.
Anything's possible I suppose, though why would any manufacturer bother
to make ones like that?

Since the OP didn't say, "This just started happening", chances are his
water pressure increased since the original installation, or it's been
that way ever since it was built because the installer saw it and just
said, "WTF".

One "fix" for his situation is to run the shower feed piping in an
inverted "U" up past the shower head and then back down to it, assuming
space exists overhead to do that. But that's likely to be a Gawd awfull
expensive proposition in an existing situation, unless the other side of
the wall behind the shower and the space overhead aren't finished. Even
then it's a fair bit of work.

I'd suggest, in the following order:

1. Learn to love it the way it is....It's not bothering anything but his
sense of perfection.

2. Try a new spout. Preferably a different make. It might just do the trick.

3. Put a throttling plug valve just behind the shower head and suffer
with opening and closing it when needed. They make 'em with a chrome finish.

3. Measure the water pressure and if it's well above what he needs,
install a pressure reducing valve after the water meter, and crank the
pressure down 'till the dribble stops.

Comments?

Jeff

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

Chris Wacalwik wrote:

I would guess you have very good water pressure. The diverter
does not shut off the shower, that is always on, but it opens the
tub outlet. Normally the difference in height keeps water from
coming out the shower. With enough water pressure, or restricted
flow to the tub, water will come out the shower.

Try using your hand to block the flow into the tub to see what I
mean.


After returning from a bike ride, and took a shower, I checked
that out. Well things change in 40 years. The diverter on my
current shower does seem to block off the shower when the tub is
selected. Sorry for the bad advice.


Sounds like your diverter is on the wall, and not on the spout.

No, on the spout.


The OP's description of "pushing down" on the valve made it sound to
me like it's one of the "in the spout" ones, and I haven't yet heard
of a spout with a valve which will block off the feed to the shower
head. Anything's possible I suppose, though why would any
manufacturer bother
to make ones like that?

Don't know. It surprised me.


Since the OP didn't say, "This just started happening", chances are
his water pressure increased since the original installation, or it's
been
that way ever since it was built because the installer saw it and just
said, "WTF".

One "fix" for his situation is to run the shower feed piping in an
inverted "U" up past the shower head and then back down to it,
assuming space exists overhead to do that. But that's likely to be a
Gawd awfull expensive proposition in an existing situation, unless
the other side of the wall behind the shower and the space overhead
aren't finished. Even then it's a fair bit of work.

I'd suggest, in the following order:

1. Learn to love it the way it is....It's not bothering anything but
his sense of perfection.

2. Try a new spout. Preferably a different make. It might just do the
trick.

3. Put a throttling plug valve just behind the shower head and suffer
with opening and closing it when needed. They make 'em with a chrome
finish.

3. Measure the water pressure and if it's well above what he needs,
install a pressure reducing valve after the water meter, and crank the
pressure down 'till the dribble stops.

Comments?

Jeff

I think you have made some good suggestions

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

Chris Wacalwik wrote:

I would guess you have very good water pressure. The diverter
does not shut off the shower, that is always on, but it opens the
tub outlet. Normally the difference in height keeps water from
coming out the shower. With enough water pressure, or restricted
flow to the tub, water will come out the shower.

Try using your hand to block the flow into the tub to see what I
mean.


After returning from a bike ride, and took a shower, I checked
that out. Well things change in 40 years. The diverter on my
current shower does seem to block off the shower when the tub is
selected. Sorry for the bad advice.


Sounds like your diverter is on the wall, and not on the spout.

No, on the spout.


The OP's description of "pushing down" on the valve made it sound to
me like it's one of the "in the spout" ones, and I haven't yet heard
of a spout with a valve which will block off the feed to the shower
head. Anything's possible I suppose, though why would any
manufacturer bother
to make ones like that?

Don't know. It surprised me.


Since the OP didn't say, "This just started happening", chances are
his water pressure increased since the original installation, or it's
been
that way ever since it was built because the installer saw it and just
said, "WTF".

One "fix" for his situation is to run the shower feed piping in an
inverted "U" up past the shower head and then back down to it,
assuming space exists overhead to do that. But that's likely to be a
Gawd awfull expensive proposition in an existing situation, unless
the other side of the wall behind the shower and the space overhead
aren't finished. Even then it's a fair bit of work.

I'd suggest, in the following order:

1. Learn to love it the way it is....It's not bothering anything but
his sense of perfection.

2. Try a new spout. Preferably a different make. It might just do the
trick.

3. Put a throttling plug valve just behind the shower head and suffer
with opening and closing it when needed. They make 'em with a chrome
finish.

3. Measure the water pressure and if it's well above what he needs,
install a pressure reducing valve after the water meter, and crank the
pressure down 'till the dribble stops.

Comments?

Jeff

I think you have made some good suggestions

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Because there is enough back pressure in the tub spout to get water to
the shower head. Thank your Congressman for legislation back in the
'80s that mandated flow restrictors. That's where the pressure comes from.

I have Fredrich Ghroe fixture in several of my baths and they require a
third passive (and hidden from view) component which I believe is called
a "dual-EL" that prevents this from happening. I don't know how others
have addressed the problem.

If this is a new phenomenon it may be that your water utility has raised
the pressure somewhat. Many are doing this to compensate for water
mains that are too small in the face of increasing demand.

RB

Chris Wacalwik wrote:
When I try to fill my bathtub, water drips out of the shower head,
even when the diverter is pushed down. I'm wondering why water would
be able to go up to the showerhead if pressure is being released by
letting water through the spout. I'm curious to know if there is a way
to fix it, or if I'll need to by a new diverter.

Chris

Because there is enough back pressure in the tub spout to get water to
the shower head. Thank your Congressman for legislation back in the
'80s that mandated flow restrictors. That's where the pressure comes from.

I have Fredrich Ghroe fixture in several of my baths and they require a
third passive (and hidden from view) component which I believe is called
a "dual-EL" that prevents this from happening. I don't know how others
have addressed the problem.

If this is a new phenomenon it may be that your water utility has raised
the pressure somewhat. Many are doing this to compensate for water
mains that are too small in the face of increasing demand.

RB

Chris Wacalwik wrote:
When I try to fill my bathtub, water drips out of the shower head,
even when the diverter is pushed down. I'm wondering why water would
be able to go up to the showerhead if pressure is being released by
letting water through the spout. I'm curious to know if there is a way
to fix it, or if I'll need to by a new diverter.

Chris

RB wrote:
Because there is enough back pressure in the tub spout to get water to
the shower head. Thank your Congressman for legislation back in the
'80s that mandated flow restrictors. That's where the pressure comes from.

Huh?

I well understand the legislation regarding flow restrictors in shower
heads RB, but for what earthly reason would they put a flow restrictor
in a tub spout? Did they expect people to get tired of waiting for the
tub to fill up as high as they wanted, and shut off the water before it
got there?

I'm willing to learn, but I can't believe what you just wrote until you
can point me to a cite regarding it.


I have Fredrich Ghroe fixture in several of my baths and they require a
third passive (and hidden from view) component which I believe is called
a "dual-EL" that prevents this from happening. I don't know how others
have addressed the problem.

The "dual-EL" refers to two 90 degree elbows forming the top of the
inverted "U" I mentioned in a previous post to this thread.

Awaiting your response RB,

Jeff

--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

RB wrote:
Because there is enough back pressure in the tub spout to get water to
the shower head. Thank your Congressman for legislation back in the
'80s that mandated flow restrictors. That's where the pressure comes from.

Huh?

I well understand the legislation regarding flow restrictors in shower
heads RB, but for what earthly reason would they put a flow restrictor
in a tub spout? Did they expect people to get tired of waiting for the
tub to fill up as high as they wanted, and shut off the water before it
got there?

I'm willing to learn, but I can't believe what you just wrote until you
can point me to a cite regarding it.


I have Fredrich Ghroe fixture in several of my baths and they require a
third passive (and hidden from view) component which I believe is called
a "dual-EL" that prevents this from happening. I don't know how others
have addressed the problem.

The "dual-EL" refers to two 90 degree elbows forming the top of the
inverted "U" I mentioned in a previous post to this thread.

Awaiting your response RB,

Jeff

--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

RB wrote:
Because there is enough back pressure in the tub spout to get water to
the shower head. Thank your Congressman for legislation back in the
'80s that mandated flow restrictors. That's where the pressure comes
from.


Are you suggesting that flow restrictions have increased to overall
system pressure since less is being wasted? The only way flow restrictions
could come into play, as far as I can see, would be if the tub outlet was
restricted and I have not seen that, have not heard that it was to be
restricted, nor see why it would be restricted. Mine in not restricted and
it is about 10 years old.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Joseph Meehan wrote:

RB wrote:

Because there is enough back pressure in the tub spout to get water to
the shower head. Thank your Congressman for legislation back in the
'80s that mandated flow restrictors. That's where the pressure comes
from.



Are you suggesting that flow restrictions have increased to overall
system pressure since less is being wasted? The only way flow restrictions
could come into play, as far as I can see, would be if the tub outlet was
restricted and I have not seen that, have not heard that it was to be
restricted, nor see why it would be restricted. Mine in not restricted and
it is about 10 years old.



IIRC there was a proposal to help conserve water by restricting the size
of bathtubs sold in the USA, but it was defeated by the likes of Teddy
Kennedy and other of our wide ass "hired hands" in Washington. (With
apologies to Will Rogers.)

Jeff

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

RB wrote:

Because there is enough back pressure in the tub spout to get water
to the shower head. Thank your Congressman for legislation back in
the '80s that mandated flow restrictors. That's where the pressure
comes from.



Are you suggesting that flow restrictions have increased to
overall system pressure since less is being wasted? The only way
flow restrictions could come into play, as far as I can see, would
be if the tub outlet was restricted and I have not seen that, have
not heard that it was to be restricted, nor see why it would be
restricted. Mine in not restricted and it is about 10 years old.



IIRC there was a proposal to help conserve water by restricting the
size of bathtubs sold in the USA, but it was defeated by the likes of
Teddy Kennedy and other of our wide ass "hired hands" in Washington.
(With apologies to Will Rogers.)

That sounds like a good work by our hired hands. Most people fill a
tube to a given depth, not time unlike a shower, so any restriction would
only cost them time.


Jeff

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

IIRC there was a proposal to help conserve water by restricting the
size of bathtubs sold in the USA, but it was defeated by the likes of
Teddy Kennedy and other of our wide ass "hired hands" in Washington.
(With apologies to Will Rogers.)


That sounds like a good work by our hired hands. Most people fill a
tube to a given depth, not time unlike a shower, so any restriction would
only cost them time.


Jeff


Joseph, I was just trying to be funny.

I should keep my day job. Obviously I'll never make it on the comedy
circuit. G

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

I don't have time now to look through legislation (clients must take
precedence) but I'm now curious as to where it is written too. I can
say for certain though that there are flow restrictors in tub spouts. I
installed one this past weekend and had to spend about an hour machining
a new aerator that didn't limit the flow rate. (Thankfully when the US
rebuilt Germany after W.W.II American pipes were used so Germany's
plumbing is still not metric. ;-) The tub filler was made in Germany
and sold in Germany so it is possible that the Bundestag rather than our
Congress is responsible.

W/r to the twin EL, there is more to it apparently than just the
connection of two ports to one. The interior is machined in a rather
involved way and the input ports' orifices are sized differently. It
looks like it is intended to create more back pressure in one feed line
than the other.

RB

Jeff Wisnia wrote:


RB wrote:

Because there is enough back pressure in the tub spout to get water to
the shower head. Thank your Congressman for legislation back in the
'80s that mandated flow restrictors. That's where the pressure comes
from.


Huh?

I well understand the legislation regarding flow restrictors in shower
heads RB, but for what earthly reason would they put a flow restrictor
in a tub spout? Did they expect people to get tired of waiting for the
tub to fill up as high as they wanted, and shut off the water before it
got there?

I'm willing to learn, but I can't believe what you just wrote until you
can point me to a cite regarding it.


I have Fredrich Ghroe fixture in several of my baths and they require
a third passive (and hidden from view) component which I believe is
called a "dual-EL" that prevents this from happening. I don't know
how others have addressed the problem.


The "dual-EL" refers to two 90 degree elbows forming the top of the
inverted "U" I mentioned in a previous post to this thread.

Awaiting your response RB,

Jeff